Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.1.8 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #65 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2004 03:01:45 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #65 1. Jumping through flaming hoops by "Fred Schoening, Jr." 2. Commercial shoots by "Paul Guncheon" 3. Re: Trade Secrets and publicity by "Scott C. Parker" 4. Re: Commercial shoots by "Jon Ares" 5. Re: Trade Secrets and publicity by Jerry Durand 6. Re: Musical Instrument by Stephen Litterst 7. Re: Musical instrument by Stephen Litterst 8. Re: Musical Instrument by "Paul Schreiner" 9. Teaching Stagecraft by Matthew Kopans 10. Re: Jumping through flaming hoops by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 11. Toronto - was Re: Musical Instrument by "Stuart Baulch" 12. Re: Musical Instrument by IAEG [at] aol.com 13. Re: Musical Instrument by Stephen Litterst 14. Re: Musical Instrument by IAEG [at] aol.com 15. Obsession Tutorial..... by Dave Bowman 16. Re: Teaching Stagecraft by "Mike Rock" 17. Hoffend Vortek system by "H-High-S (Ferreira, Jr.)" 18. Re: Obsession Tutorial..... by "Mike Rock" 19. Re: Hoffend Vortek system by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 20. Re: Hoffend Vortek system by "Scott C. Parker" 21. Re: Hoffend Vortek system by "Delbert Hall" 22. Re: Hoffend Vortek system by "Delbert Hall" 23. Spanish Dance & What countries do they come from by magellan315 [at] highstream.net 24. Re: Spanish Dance & What countries do they come from by IAEG [at] aol.com 25. Re: Musical instrument by CB 26. Mark OBrien by "Jon Lagerquist" 27. Re: Hoffend Vortek system by MissWisc [at] aol.com 28. Re: marching band by Steven Hood 29. Re: Hoffend Vortek system by "Delbert Hall" 30. Re: Spanish Dance & What countries do they come from by Steve Bailey 31. Re: Spanish Dance & What countries do they come from by IAEG [at] aol.com 32. Re: Hoffend Vortek system by Bsapsis [at] aol.com 33. Re: Hoffend Vortek system by "Delbert Hall" 34. Re: Spanish Dance & What countries do they come from by usctd [at] columbia.sc 35. Re: Hoffend Vortek system by 36. Re: Spanish Dance & What countries do they come from by Pat Kight *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <24058456.1089293323909.JavaMail.root [at] wamui01.slb.atl.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 08:28:43 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: "Fred Schoening, Jr." Subject: Jumping through flaming hoops Hi Gang! I'm building a set this season that has to go to California. I've heard the fire codes are much more stringent there. Any advice? What all do I need to do to make my scenery socially acceptable on a California stage? TIA, "Big Fred" Schoening Technical Director Dallas Theater Center Dallas, Texas, USA 214 922-0422 x12 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001701c464ef$e1e85e80$0202a8c0 [at] MyLastPC> From: "Paul Guncheon" References: Subject: Commercial shoots Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 03:31:31 -1000 <> "Mayonaise commercial" works pretty good too. Laters, Paul "Yes, I'm amazingly strongly built," said Tom soberly. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20040708093811.039a2ec0 [at] mail.hstech.org> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 09:48:09 -0400 From: "Scott C. Parker" Subject: Re: Trade Secrets and publicity In-Reply-To: References: When I was working in TV news, as a cameraman, anything I took pictures of was fair game. Granted, I was doing "breaking news" for the public interest. A couple of things you mention either go with this premise. Or contradict. If you're a reporter, then just about anything you report is fair game. If you're an industry professional who's been invited to some sort of preview, then you may have to adhere to the company's wishes. I agree with you in that if they ask you to take pictures and then ask for the pictures, then you should be compensated. I think it would be pretty low of the company to invite you to take then in the first place if they don't plan on letting you use them. However, letting you use them for your own personal use is different then sharing them with others. UNLESS, they are fully aware that you regularly practice publishing any and all photos you tend to take. Scott Scott C. Parker Production Designer/Technical Director High School Tech Production Web Site hstech~AT~hstech.org http://www.hstech.org Our Mission: To assist High School Technical Theater students in their desire to learn about, create, and execute theatrical productions. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000a01c464f4$6ec26d10$0201a8c0 [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Commercial shoots Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 07:04:05 -0700 > < outdoor location. "What are you shooting?" "Gay porn for shut-ins" always > seems to kill the usual follow-up questions...>> > > "Mayonaise commercial" works pretty good too. Eons ago, I was working on a video shoot, wherein we were down the Willamette Valley standing in the middle of the main street through the very little town, shooting the passing (dwindling numbers of) log trucks. There was an older gentleman who had been peering at us from the porch of the country store across the way, and after a good long time of studying us, he ambled out to the middle of the road where we and our equipment were. He stood quietly behind us for a couple of minutes before stepping forward and inquiring, "So, what radio station you boys with?" -- Jon Ares www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20040708071112.02624838 [at] localhost> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 07:16:42 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Trade Secrets and publicity In-Reply-To: References:

At 06:48 AM 7/8/2004, you wrote: >When I was working in TV news, as a cameraman, anything I took pictures of >was fair game. Granted, I was doing "breaking news" for the public >interest. A couple of things you mention either go with this premise. Or >contradict. If you're a reporter, then just about anything you report is >fair game. If you're an industry professional who's been invited to some >sort of preview, then you may have to adhere to the company's wishes. I was an industry professional at a public show (but behind the scenes). >I agree with you in that if they ask you to take pictures and then ask for >the pictures, then you should be compensated. I think it would be pretty >low of the company to invite you to take then in the first place if they >don't plan on letting you use them. However, letting you use them for your >own personal use is different then sharing them with others. UNLESS, they >are fully aware that you regularly practice publishing any and all photos >you tend to take. I've taken pictures of their (and other's) shows for a few years now, and have posted most of them on our web server. The company in question has even used some of them (retrieved from our web server) in their promotional material (they did ask first). The company does not (as far as I know) have any published photo policy, the request to lock some of the pictures up came from the operator/choreographer of the shows who works for the company. ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:27:58 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Musical Instrument Message-id: <40ED59EE.B7378B5E [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: Andy Leviss wrote: > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Delbert wrote: > > I never realized that we could have a Stagecraft list > > marching band. Maybe some presidential candidate will want us > > to play at a rally. We could be on Letterman. We could be > > famous - if we weren't drunk or too busy doing theatre. > > Well, if we're going marching band and not strictly drum corps, count me > in on Alto or Soprano sax. I played a year or two of Bari Sax, but that > was not a pretty thing--sounded like the damned thing was going through > puberty! I suppose I could drag the trumpet out of retirement. I've got a couple of spare cornets if anyone needs a horn. Hopefully I can get my "new" cornet restored in time for the show. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:28:58 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Musical instrument Message-id: <40ED5A2A.D01A3A5E [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References:

John Bracewell wrote: > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > >I remeber one year it was so cold we had to use vodka to keep the valuves > >from freezing, I was not part of this but the bus ride was rather long and I > >can only asssume what my fellow band mates were doing. All I know is the > >rest of my line had a hard time keeping in step when we got to the parade. > > A good sip of something potent was also a good way to keep the damn > mouthpiece from freezing to your lips on a sub-freezing night on the > football field! Too bad I didn't know about it back when I needed it. But > at that point I was too moral to do such a wicked thing! And to think I wasted my money on a plastic rimmed mouthpiece. I'm starting to regret some of the clean-living ways of my youth... Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200407081431.i68EV91d027208 [at] webmail.longwood.edu> From: "Paul Schreiner" Subject: Re: Musical Instrument Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:30:04 -0400 In-Reply-To: > > I never realized that we could have a Stagecraft list marching band. > > Well, if we're going marching band and not strictly drum > corps, count me in on Alto or Soprano sax. > > --Andy, now flashing back through many memories of marching > band competitions at Giants Stadium back in high school :o) Didn't do the competition thing (my school didn't have a marching band), but I spent three years playing trombone for the Erie County Fair Marching Band. And had one performance at Rich (aka Ralph Wilson) Stadium way back when... But I'm waaaaaay outta practice...might have to stick to my son's trombone-shaped kazoo for a while! ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20040708143213.99236.qmail [at] web42302.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 07:32:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Matthew Kopans Subject: Teaching Stagecraft In-Reply-To: Hi all, I'm working on a paper for ATHE and want some other voices if possible. If you teach Stagecraft (or intro to technical theatre) at a BA or BS program could you quickly comment on the following questions? 1) Do you require shop hours and, if so, do you (the instructor) supervise them, or is there a seperate Stagecraft instructor and Technical director? 2) What areas of Tech theatre do you cover? 3) How do you reconcile your requirements as an instructor of the liberal arts with teaching what is essentially a skills class? My Stagecraft course doesn't allow much (if any) creative work on the part of the students. Does yours? How? Is it effective? You can respond to me off-list if you'd prefer. Matt Kopans University of Pittsburgh mjkopa [at] yahoo.com __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:33:38 EDT Subject: Re: Jumping through flaming hoops In a message dated 7/8/04 9:29:14 AM, bigfred [at] mindspring.com writes: << I'm building a set this season that has to go to California. I've heard the fire codes are much more stringent there. Any advice? What all do I need to do to make my scenery socially acceptable on a California stage? >> The regulations tend not to change too much from one town to another. the interpretation of those regulations is another matter. If the set is going to only one place I strongly suggest you talk to the people at that theatre first. Here are some general suggestions however (Fred, you probably already know these but some of the other folks on the list might not. 1) No raw wood. Everything gets painted. 2) Have a certificate of flame retardancy for all of the scenery. If you have different types of material (wood, plastic, metal, etc.) then you should have a cert. for each type. 3) No foam. Many places won't let you use a foam product, at least in serious quantities, that gives off a toxic smoke when it burns. 4) Separate flame retardancy for the soft goods. If you have different types of fabric then you should have a cert. for each type. Part of the idea is to impress the fire marshal that you know what you are doing. Having a hand written note on the back of a drink coaster won't do it, but lots of official certificates will help smooth the way. Zat help? Bill S. Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, and under, our work. ------------------------------ From: "Stuart Baulch" Subject: Toronto - was Re: Musical Instrument Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:45:29 -0500 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > I never realized that we could have a Stagecraft list marching band. > Sign me up. Toronto? Nah, they would probably throw us out of the convention center. > Greg Bierly (Shudder) I've heard much much worse things performed on the floor of MTCC than anything we could possibly muster. No - that's not a challenge! Stuart B ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <45.10261ed8.2e1eba0a [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 10:54:02 EDT Subject: Re: Musical Instrument i haven't played a low brass instrument seriously for years, , tried to pucker up and play a few licks last year, it wasn't pleasant ,, played Tuba, Euphonium and Trombone in marching band in HS and College, even spent a year as Drum Major in HS, , was a member of AFM at age 16, , played keyboards in every rock and roll bar in the SE US from 1973 - 1978 and used my musical skills to get me through college on scholarship (to this day I have never taken a course in theatre, design, tech or anything related on a HS or College level , of course growing up backstage and having a mother who was the Artistic Director of a major regional ballet company sort of helped!) had a guy pull a gun and shoot five people ( killing one ) while we were on stage on Xmas Eve in Lakeland Florida, , ( I had to stand on stage and talk to the audience to keep them calm for an hour while the police and EMS people dealt with the situation ) had 24' U Haul Truck burn to the ground on I 75 near Macon with all of our gear, and still made the gig in Atlanta 48 hours later. could easily write a B movie screen play of all the craziness of those days, , if we do a stagecraft marching band, , I'll help, , but in the best interests of all, , I probably won't want to pick up a horn. Marching Keyborads? Xylophone ? very best, Keith Arsenault ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 10:59:13 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Musical Instrument Message-id: <40ED6141.8637E6C6 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: IAEG [at] aol.com wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > if we do a stagecraft marching band, , I'll help, , but in the best interests > of all, , I probably won't want to pick up a horn. Marching Keyborads? > Xylophone ? I went to a parade in northern PA last month where not only did two band have a marching electric bass, they had a roadie pushing the amp/battery cart. You could tell he was the roadie b/c he had the band jacket on, but was wearing shorts. Steve LItterst -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <9e.ec58cdf.2e1ebc65 [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 11:04:05 EDT Subject: Re: Musical Instrument In a message dated 7/8/04 8:00:00 AM, slitterst [at] ithaca.edu writes: << I went to a parade in northern PA last month where not only did two band have a marching electric bass, they had a roadie pushing the amp/battery cart. You could tell he was the roadie b/c he had the band jacket on, but was wearing shorts. Steve LItterst >> we did all sorts of that sort of thing in college, , the marching band at U of Tampa had a sort of anarchy that reminds me of the stories I have heard from Stanford. we had a real "pro" band, , of the 70 people marching on the field, , about 40 were card carrying AFM members. we would put friends in the band all the time, , carrying ANYTHING to fill our the formation, or favorite was "Marching Flamingo" we had a couple of old CONCRETE lawn flamingo's that we would put drum or guitar straps on, , and a non musician would carry them Also had guys carrying electric guitars and bass, , they weren't hooked up to anything,, it was just a visual joke for those who looked close enough very best, Keith Arsenault President ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40ED6ECB.1040409 [at] syr.edu> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 11:56:59 -0400 From: Dave Bowman Organization: Syracuse Stage/SU Drama Subject: Obsession Tutorial..... Good Afternoon Gang, I have recently become the proud owner of an Obsession II console. Of course, now I have to learn how to use the thing. Does anyone have/know of a tutorial for the Obsession? My old console was a Strand 430 so I have some clue as to the basics of programming, tracking, cue only, ML programming, etc..., but I need something more specific to the Obsession..... Thanks! dave B. -- David M. Bowman Syracuse Stage / SU Drama Master Electrician / Adj. Professor dmbowman [at] syr.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003001c4650a$40b86080$176e1745 [at] Spankythelovemachine> From: "Mike Rock" References: Subject: Re: Teaching Stagecraft Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 11:40:17 -0500 As someone who knows people who took the class but never taking it myself due to it getting canned because of budget cuts I think I can help you out a little. Reminder that this is at the high school level. > 1) Do you require shop hours and, if so, do you (the instructor) > supervise them, or is there a seperate Stagecraft instructor and > Technical director? Yes, shop hours were a major part of the grade. If some one got As on all the test and projects but never came to any build sessions they would need up with a C or so. All building was supervissed by the teacher of the stage craft seeing as he was also the TD. > 2) What areas of Tech theatre do you cover? For the first 5 or 6 weeks the classses focuses on the basic. This is an arbor, that is a batten that is upstage this is downstage, this is how you use a table saw, this is a source 4 that is a 6*9, and most importanly the knots. Then once the show wsa beening built they would get to use what they know by building it, most of the time they would pick up some of the finner details like how to focus a source 4, dry brushing, and what not. Mike ------------------------------ Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20040708122154.00a01670 [at] mail.kingphilip.org> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 12:39:11 -0400 From: "H-High-S (Ferreira, Jr.)" Subject: Hoffend Vortek system Greetings everyone: I am a new subscriber to this list, but have been working tech ever since high school. I am now the director/tech director and theatre teacher of a high school theatre program in Southeastern Massachusetts. We are about to begin construction/renovation of our school, which is to include a brand-new 875 seat theatre to replace our elderly 560 seat auditorium. The architects have brought up installing a Hoffend Vortek rigging system as a way to save on the costs of the steel and construction needed to reinforce the roof and floor of the stage to accommodate a double-purchase weighted fly system (45' H fly space/18' H proscenium). I am tying to locate people who have used this system AND a venue somewhere in Eastern MA/RI/Eastern CT/Southern NH that uses this system so I can arrange a visit and see it in action. I have been waiting for a reply from Hoffend's regional sales person for over two weeks to arrange a visit and I'd rather not wait longer as plans are finalizing with the architects and I'd like to know what to expect BEFORE they are included in the final design. If anyone can assist me, I'd greatly appreciate it. Thanks. Cordially, Joe Ferreira Joseph J. Ferreira, Jr. Department of Social Studies & Director, KP Drama & GAPS King Philip Regional High School 201 Franklin Street Wrentham, MA 02093 Web page: http://fac.kingphilip.org/~ferreiraj/ E-mail: ferreiraj [at] kingphilip.org ------------------------------ Message-ID: <005101c4650b$4934cfe0$176e1745 [at] Spankythelovemachine> From: "Mike Rock" References: Subject: Re: Obsession Tutorial..... Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 11:47:41 -0500 I dont know if this is what you want but it might be of some use. http://www.etcconnect.com/literature/literature.asp ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1d5.25939393.2e1ed617 [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 12:53:43 EDT Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system Joe. I can't help you much with the Hoffend system, as I've never seen one. I do know that no matter what kind of system you install, you will still need roughly the same amount of roof steel. I was also wondering why the architects think you need a double purchase system. With an 18' proscenium and a 45' roof, you could get by with a single purchase system. It might be a touch tight, but if you mask down your proscenium even 1 foot you'd have it made. Just a thought. Bill S. Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, and under, our work. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.2.20040708131231.02191660 [at] mail.hstech.org> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 13:15:44 -0400 From: "Scott C. Parker" Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system In-Reply-To: References: I second Bill's suggestion of a single purchase system. To add: I would have concerns about the lack of response from the regional sales person. After all, they are about to make a bunch of money. If the folks who's job it is to make money for the company, what happens when you need tech support? Scott > Scott C. Parker Production Designer/Technical Director High School Tech Production Web Site hstech~AT~hstech.org High Schoolers: come visit the HS Tech Web Site... http://www.hstech.org Our Mission: To assist High School Technical Theater students in their desire to learn about, create, and execute theatrical productions. ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 14:31:22 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <000d01c46519$c5e95ed0$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-Reply-To: I am not an engineer, but I think the architect is correct, you would need more steel in the roof if you install a counterweight system (either single or double purchase) than you would need for the Vortek system. Here is why. With the Vortek system, the load placed on the structure of the building is whatever the load is you are lifting, plus the weight of the Vortek system itself, and the any shockload that results from operating the system. The load on the structure is straight down, so you that makes thing simple. Therefore, it is easy to calculate the size of steel needed. With a counterweight system to load that you are lifting is placed on the loft blocks. However, because of the 90 degree bending of the lift lines this load in increased by a factor of 1.41 (resultant load on a 90 degree bend of a cable). This increase is passed on to the structure of the building, and the angle of the load is not 45 degrees. Therefore, the steel on the building must larger to accommodate the additional load and the angle of the load. In addition, the total load on all the battens is transferred to the beam that supports the head block. Multiply this by 1.41 too, and this has to be a VERY heavy beam. Also, remember that the shockload on a mechanical counterweight system is also multiplied by 1.41 as it is transferred to the structure of the building. The result is a lot of steel needed. Since the Vortek system does not have a head blocks, you do not need this large beam, so you save a lot of structure at this one point alone. Plus every other point will require smaller steel than with a counterweight system. The result is a much cheaper building to build. Now, a mechanical counterweight system is much less expensive than the Vortek system, but with steel prices rising the way they are, it might be cheaper to go with the Vortek system. I saw the Vortek system at the USITT conference in March and I was very impressed with it. Look at both types of systems before making a final decision. -Delbert -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bsapsis [at] aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 12:54 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Joe. I can't help you much with the Hoffend system, as I've never seen one. I do know that no matter what kind of system you install, you will still need roughly the same amount of roof steel. I was also wondering why the architects think you need a double purchase system. With an 18' proscenium and a 45' roof, you could get by with a single purchase system. It might be a touch tight, but if you mask down your proscenium even 1 foot you'd have it made. Just a thought. Bill S. Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, and under, our work. ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 15:56:08 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <001201c46525$9c9fa500$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-Reply-To: I had to run an errand and left out a few things that I was planning on saying in my last email on this subject, so here goes. One reason the architect may want to use a double purchase counterweight system, instead of a single purchase counterweight system, is to give you more usable floor space in the wing on one side of the stage. A double purchase counterweight system will certainly do this, but is more expensive than a single purchase counterweight system. Part of this expense is for fly gallery, the catwalk that holds the locking rail. In fact, the fly gallery takes a lot of steel because of all of the weight that it must support, so it is a costly addition. Cutting the cost of the fly gallery, the loading gallery, and the beam for head block (things not needed with the Vortek system) will save a ton of money. When you add in the smaller beams for the roof steel, the savings gets even larger. Every system has its advantages and disadvantage, and this is true with the Vortek system. The Vortek system is a good option for a number of theatres, and yours may be one of them. Best of luck. -Delbert ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200407082058.i68KwIBd016491 [at] hsb102.xlccorp.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 16:58:18 -0400 From: magellan315 [at] highstream.net Subject: Spanish Dance & What countries do they come from References: In-Reply-To: I'm doing some research for a project. What I am trying to come up with is a list of dances found within the spanish speaking population and the countries where they have originated from or are most popular in. Any help would be appreciated Norman Lazarus ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 16:48:33 EDT Subject: Re: Spanish Dance & What countries do they come from In a message dated 7/8/04 4:45:17 PM, magellan315 [at] highstream.net writes: << I'm doing some research for a project. What I am trying to come up with is a list of dances found within the spanish speaking population and the countries where they have originated from or are most popular in. Any help would be appreciated Norman Lazarus >> Flamenco Spain Mambo Cuba Meringue Dominican Republic Cumbia Colombia Salsa Everyone claims it Paso Double Spain very best, Keith Arsenault www.iaeginc.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20040708132811.01831e20 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 13:28:11 From: CB Subject: Re: Musical instrument >Their both sharp Er, 'They're', as in the common contraction of 'They are'. Dang late nights... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ From: "Jon Lagerquist" Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 14:35:34 -0700 Subject: Mark OBrien Message-ID: <40ED5BB6.17465.EE15031 [at] localhost> In-reply-to: References: Mark, Drop me a note, I have some questions for you. Jon Lagerquist ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1d0.2556feea.2e1f2dc2 [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 19:07:46 EDT Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system Cc: halld [at] etsu.edu Delbert (et.al.)- me being 90% unknowing of the Vortek system but loving to learn... What happens when a rock concert or heavy Brodaywa tour comes in and wants to rig? Can it work for that situation or will it be like Phantom, adding rigging to theatres all over the place? Kristi ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20040708233828.80289.qmail [at] web20806.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 16:38:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Hood Subject: Re: marching band In-Reply-To: Why do you suppose so many of us "used to be" musicians? Someone dated themselves as not having been so for some 20 years, and I'd guess some have been away far longer... I played clarinet (without ever really taking the proper time to practice), and I wish I hadn't been so sloppy about it... Not that I want to play again, but I'd like to show my daughter how the instrument could sound if played well... It's gonna scare her if it's me that introduces her to the joy of playing an instrument... Kids, if you play, don't quit! Anyhow... time to go swallow a meal and get to final dress rehearsal... Slainte, y'all! Steven TD, Regent Uni Set Des., Central MO Rep __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Address AutoComplete - You start. We finish. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 20:33:43 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <000901c4654c$6474e9c0$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-Reply-To: Kristi - This is a good question. If this were my need I would definitely choose a single purchase CW system. Let's face it a CW system will be more flexible than the Vortek system: 1) You can put CW linesets on 4" centers, but I doubt that you can get Vortek linesets closer than 8" apart. 2) You can have a batten on CW lineset that is 80+ feet long. Vortek limits battens to around 42 feet 3) You can put batten extensions on CW system, but I don't think you can do this on a Vortek aluminum batten. 4) There are lots of weird things you could do with a CW system that would be difficult or impossible to do with Vortek. IMO, Vortek's strength is in small to medium size theatres that do not have a lot of backstage help (especially trained help). One person can easily add scenery, lights, etc. to a Vortek batten and raise it to the desired trim height. It is a safe and user friendly system. It is not a "professional" system. My interest in Vortek was in wanting to know how it would accommodate my flying systems. I figure that I will run into them one day on a job, and I wanted to know that if I would face any problems. I am convinced that they will work well with my equipment. I hope this helped. -Delbert -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of MissWisc [at] aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 08, 2004 7:08 PM To: Stagecraft Cc: halld [at] etsu.edu Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Delbert (et.al.)- me being 90% unknowing of the Vortek system but loving to learn... What happens when a rock concert or heavy Brodaywa tour comes in and wants to rig? Can it work for that situation or will it be like Phantom, adding rigging to theatres all over the place? Kristi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 20:48:50 -0400 From: Steve Bailey Subject: Re: Spanish Dance & What countries do they come from Message-id: <005e01c4654e$80593180$6401a8c0 [at] computer> References: ----- Original Message ----- From: > I'm doing some research for a project. What I am trying to come up with is a > > list of dances found within the spanish speaking population and the countries > > where they have originated from or are most popular in. > > > Any help would be appreciated > > > Norman Lazarus >> > > > Flamenco Spain > Mambo Cuba > Meringue Dominican Republic > Cumbia Colombia > Salsa Everyone claims it > Paso Double Spain > To which I would add Tango. Popular in Brazil (not Spanish though)/Argentina, other S. American countries ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 20:57:50 EDT Subject: Re: Spanish Dance & What countries do they come from In a message dated 7/8/04 8:48:44 PM, sbmtbike [at] optonline.net writes: << To which I would add Tango. Popular in Brazil (not Spanish though)/Argentina, other S. American countries >> doh! why didn't I have that on my list ? Tango,, muy Argentino, ( love the music of Astor Piazolla ! ) very best, Keith Arsenault President IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida 813 831 3465 Mr. Arsenault's Office 813 205 0893 Mr. Arsenault's Cellular www.iaeginc.com ------------------------------ From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 21:23:45 EDT Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system In a message dated 7/8/04 2:32:31 PM, halld [at] etsu.edu writes: << I am not an engineer, but I think the architect is correct, you would need more steel in the roof if you install a counterweight system (either single or double purchase) than you would need for the Vortex system. Here is why. With the Vortek system, the load placed on the structure of the building is whatever the load is you are lifting, plus the weight of the Vortek system itself, and the any shockload that results from operating the system. The load on the structure is straight down, so you that makes thing simple. Therefore, it is easy to calculate the size of steel needed. With a counterweight system to load that you are lifting is placed on the loft blocks. However, because of the 90 degree bending of the lift lines this load in increased by a factor of 1.41 (resultant load on a 90 degree bend of a cable). This increase is passed on to the structure of the building, and the angle of the load is not 45 degrees. Therefore, the steel on the building must larger to accommodate the additional load and the angle of the load. In addition, the total load on all the battens is transferred to the beam that supports the head block. Multiply this by 1.41 too, and this has to be a VERY heavy beam. Also, remember that the shockload on a mechanical counterweight system is also multiplied by 1.41 as it is transferred to the structure of the building. The result is a lot of steel needed. >> Delbert. I appreciate your analysis and the numbers are correct, but I have some additional comments. The factor of 1.41 should be inconsequential to a structural engineer. The amount of load applied by a counterweight system, considering that the loads are relatively evenly distributed over the entire grid/roof area, is relatively inconsequential. A maximum load of 30,000 pounds over 1200 square feet (30' X 40' grid area results in a per sq. ft load of only 25 lbs. with the friction coefficient of 1.41 that brings the load up to 35.25 per sq. ft. These kinds of loads are chump change to a building structure and the increase in size is minimal. So, yes, a little more steel is required for a c/w system, but it isn't enough to justify going from one system to another. There has to be extenuating circumstances like the ones you mentioned. Lack of trained crew, e.g.. Bill S. Sapsis Rigging, Inc. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, and under, our work. ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 22:12:15 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <000201c4655a$28bccb60$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-Reply-To: Bill said: Delbert. I appreciate your analysis and the numbers are correct, but I have some additional comments. The factor of 1.41 should be inconsequential to a structural engineer. The amount of load applied by a counterweight system, considering that the loads are relatively evenly distributed over the entire grid/roof area, is relatively inconsequential. A maximum load of 30,000 pounds over 1200 square feet (30' X 40' grid area results in a per sq. ft load of only 25 lbs. with the friction coefficient of 1.41 that brings the load up to 35.25 per sq. ft. These kinds of loads are chump change to a building structure and the increase in size is minimal. _____________________ Thanks Bill. This may very well be true. My thinking is that for many CW systems the 30,000 pound load may not be spread out over a 30'x40' grid, but it might rest entirely on 4 or 5 I-beams, so the load on each beam could get significant and the resultant load would be make a real difference in the size of the steel. I might be wrong, but it seems to me that it would be much easier to spread the load over more (smaller) beams with the Vortek system, than with an under hung CW system. Even it the theatre gets a full grid to spread to load out, the beams that supports the head blocks in a CW system have got to be pretty massive and fairly expensively. I have seen far more high school theatres with under hung rigging than ones with full gridirons. If Joe's architect is concerned with money, the possibilities of him getting a full grid don't look good to me. As I said, I am not an engineer, nor am I an architect. I don't know the cost of the steel or the cost to install it. His architect seems to think that this might save them some money. I don't know if this is true or not, but it makes sense to me. I think many new high school theatres (like Joe's) might opt for the Vortek system. There are certainly good reasons to go with this system, just as there are good reasons to go with a counterweight system (and some people might say that there are good reasons to go with a dead-hung pipes). Just my opinion. -Delbert ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1388.207.201.197.73.1089345591.squirrel [at] webmail.columbia.sc> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 23:59:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: Spanish Dance & What countries do they come from From: usctd [at] columbia.sc Cha Cha - Cuba Bomba y Plena - Puerto Rico -- Eric Rouse TD-University of SC, Columbia Freelance Foyboy > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I'm doing some research for a project. What I am trying to come up with is > a > list of dances found within the spanish speaking population and the > countries > where they have originated from or are most popular in. > > Any help would be appreciated > > Norman Lazarus > ------------------------------ From: Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2004 0:09:58 -0400 Message-Id: <20040709040958.NZKL1402.de-fe02.dejazzd.com [at] de-fe02> to continue on this thread I will be very interested in the per lineset cost. Somewere I got the figure for approximately $3000 per lineset for a "standard" (I know whatever that means) single purchase lineset. This was in a CW house to replace or add a lineset. I would be very curious as to the cost per lineset for the Vortek just for s--ts and giggles. Are we looking $5k a lineset plus another $3k for a controller or are we up in the $10k per lineset range? Maybe I'll have to make some calls at the end of the month when I get back. I have the perfect application for the Vortek (of course not enough budget to do more than a lineset a year) Greg Bierly Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <40EE2D23.6020400 [at] peak.org> Date: Thu, 08 Jul 2004 22:29:07 -0700 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: Spanish Dance & What countries do they come from References:

In-Reply-To: usctd [at] columbia.sc wrote: > Cha Cha - Cuba > Bomba y Plena - Puerto Rico Don't forget the rhumba - like the mambo, a Cuban interpretation of African dance rhythms. -- Pat Kight kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #65 ****************************