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Subject: Stagecraft Digest #69
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 03:01:04 -0700
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For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Stagecraft Digest, Issue #69

 1. Re: ISO theatre museum other worthy recipent...
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
 2. Hemp House Rigging
    by "Robert Ashley" <rbashley [at] hotmail.com>
 3. Re: manual vs automated ( was Hoffend Vortek )
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
 4. Re: Program copy resource
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
 5. Re: Hemp House Rigging
    by usctd [at] columbia.sc
 6. Clapton Tour
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
 7. plays as scenes in movies
    by "RICHARD FINKELSTEIN" <rfinkels [at] msn.com>
 8. Re: Hemp House Rigging
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
 9. Re: plays as scenes in movies
    by "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
10. Re: Clapton Tour
    by "Michael Eddy" <michael [at] plasa.org>
11. Re: plays as scenes in movies
    by "Paul Schreiner" <schreinerpd [at] longwood.edu>
12. Re: Clapton Tour
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
13. Re: plays as scenes in movies
    by "Paul Schreiner" <schreinerpd [at] longwood.edu>
14. Re: Clapton Tour
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
15. Re: plays as scenes in movies
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
16. Re: plays as scenes in movies
    by James Kosmatka <james [at] cleveland-theater.com>
17. Re: plays as scenes in movies
    by "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
18. Re: plays as scenes in movies
    by Richard Niederberg <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
19. Re: plays as scenes in movies
    by Pat Kight <kightp [at] peak.org>
20. Re: plays as scenes in movies
    by "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
21. Re: Hoffend Vortek system
    by "Kacey Fisher" <Kacey [at] FisherTheatrical.com>
22. Re: plays as scenes in movies
    by Gion DeFrancesco <defranga [at] po.muohio.edu>
23. Re: Hoffend Vortek system
    by Bsapsis [at] aol.com
24. Re: Hoffend Vortek system
    by Mike Brubaker <mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com>
25. Re: Hoffend Vortek system
    by Mike Brubaker <mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com>
26. winch question
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
27. Re: plays as scenes in movies
    by MissWisc [at] aol.com
28. Re: plays as scenes in movies
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
29. Vortek - Thanks for views and another inquiry
    by "H-High-S (Ferreira, Jr.)" <ferreiraj [at] kingphilip.org>
30. Re: winch question
    by Bsapsis [at] aol.com
31. Re: winch question
    by Mike Brubaker <mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com>
32. Re: winch question
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
33. Re: [spamcatcher] Re: winch question
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
34. Re: plays as scenes in movies
    by "Douglas McCracken" <dbasMcCracken [at] hawaii.rr.com>
35. Re: Hoffend Vortek system
    by "Jason" <OneOccy [at] hotmail.com>
36. Re: winch question
    by "Jason" <OneOccy [at] hotmail.com>

*** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject
*** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to
*** one message subject in each reply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <85.10569c6a.2e23dcf6 [at] aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 08:24:22 EDT
Subject: Re: ISO theatre museum other worthy recipent...


In a message dated 7/9/04 11:56:11 AM, barney [at] JosephCHansen.com writes:

<< They are ready to be retired.  The 

Marquette University's Museum has expressed interest in the past (the 

have other Dunkle work where he worked with Salvidor Dali).  Are there 

other worthy recipients that I should consider?


Barney Simon

Joseph C Hansen Company, Inc.

Drapes Drops and Dance Floors

NYC >>


years ago (20 or so) I saw an exhibit at the De Young Museum in San Francisco 
of "ballet art" original set models, costume renderings, original costumes, a 
few obligatory Degas'  etc etc


on a large wall was a backdrop, from the "original" Balanchine Concerto 
Barroco.  We always think of that as one of the most typical of the Balanchine 
leotard ballets, minimal costumes, no scenery, and (hopefully) Jean Rosenthal ( 
not the Ronnie Bates version ) lighting.


Well this is a full greek temple and landscape scene,  not a large backdrop 
(certainly wouldn't have worked at the Old Met) and not what we would ever 
think today of putting behind this Balanchine classic  

Yya see how times and tastes change ?  most balletomanes today would have NO 
clue that Concerto Barrocco ever had a set , and would think it blashphemous 
if you were to suggest one. 


The drop was credited I am almost certain to Eugene Berman. I don't recall 
whose collection it was on loan from, or if it belonged to the DeYoung but I 
would be interested to know.


The Philadelphia Museum of Arts has a Dali ( not a very interesting one I 
feel ) backdrop hanging in the western lobby, 


What happened to the Picasso Ballet Russe  "Parade" act curtain that used to 
hang in the lobby of what, The Four Seasons restaurant in NYC ?   ( might have 
the restaurant wrong, , not certain ) is that still there ?  in a private 
collection ?  on display somewhere ?  I'd love to know.


best


keith arsenault

iaeg

tampa, fl

very best,

Keith Arsenault
President
IAEG -  International Arts & Entertainment Group 
Tampa, Florida

813 831 3465 Mr. Arsenault's Office
813 205 0893 Mr. Arsenault's Cellular

www.iaeginc.com

------------------------------

From: "Robert Ashley" <rbashley [at] hotmail.com>
Subject: Hemp House Rigging
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 08:29:54 -0400
Message-ID: <BAY18-F1uRWCy7rjcxt00038166 [at] hotmail.com>

<html><div style='background-color:'><DIV class=RTE>Hello,</DIV>
<DIV class=RTE>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=RTE>I've recently taken a job working at Va. Stage Co. which is a hemp house.&nbsp; And I was wondering if anyone knew of any good hemp house rigging "handbooks" or websites.&nbsp; I know the basics but I'm not sure that I know all of the correct terms or any of the "little tricks" to make the rigging safer and easier.&nbsp; Any helpful hints as to where to find these resources&nbsp;would be wonderful.</DIV>
<DIV class=RTE>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV class=RTE>Thanks</DIV>
<DIV class=RTE>Robert Ashley</DIV></div></html>

------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1a0.26ca859e.2e23df73 [at] aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 08:34:59 EDT
Subject: Re: manual vs automated ( was Hoffend Vortek )


In a message dated 7/11/04 12:26:53 PM, mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com writes:

<< On the other hand, one of the reasons to consider powered rigging is a 
situation that is far more likely--what happens when a lineset is out of 
balance and goes runaway.  I've seen linesets run away (in professional 
halls, too), and I've seen the aftermath of linesets that ran.  I have not 
seen that happen on a powered rigging system.

What happens if a controller or motor dies is...nothing.  No falling 
scenery, no hurt people.

Mike >>


I did the opening night of a new venue in Colombia South America about 20 
years ago

In a land where labour is inexpensive (trained labour is another story) they 
had installed an

"American made automated rigging system"  ( I will let you figure out from 
what company) 

For the Gala Opening less than two-thirds of the line sets were operational. 
One of the line sets stopped working during the final dress causing changes in 
the actual Gala performance.

The closest spare parts /  authorized service personnel was in a Northern /  
Midwest US City.

I have not re visited that venue in the intervening years, I wouldn't be 
surprised if it is a "dead hung" venue now.

Without going in to a long rant I will say that this same venue was the 
dumping ground for a couple of US sound and lighting technology companies.  
Consoles and equipment that had been busts in the market place in the US were what 
this entire complex was equipped with. 

The first electric position was downstage of the Act Curtain, and the hanging 
pipe positioned that no ellipsoidal could be used for fear it would rip the 
front of the Act Curtain as it passed by.  Thankfully I can say that the design 
of the venue was NOT done by an American firm.

I can tell you story after story of South American venues being victimized by 
"ugly american" sale personnel, but that's another posting

very best,

Keith Arsenault

IAEG -  International Arts & Entertainment Group 
Tampa, Florida

------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1d6.25e6b44a.2e23e1f0 [at] aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 08:45:36 EDT
Subject: Re: Program copy resource

Many times in writing program copy for organizations that had over due 
influence by members of boards of directors, or from over zealous directors I would 
be placed in the position of listing credits in ridiculous order or just be 
faced with copy layout from "volunteers" that was just ludicrous.

I finally solved it

I kept a copy next to my desk of a Lincoln Center Playbill, , actually two, 
one from a Met Opera performance and one of an American Ballet Theatre 
performance.

That became a styles guide, any questions as to relative type size, order of 
credits, order of biography etc etc were solved by a simple look see at either 
of these programs.

Many times in dealing with less than professional surroundings there have 
been questions about 

a   having the US and State flag besides the stage
b   superfluous curtain speeches before and or at intermission
c   anything "weird"

I would just turn to someone who was championing that inappropriate activity 
and say 

"let's think, how would they do it at the MET" ?   

that usually was the end of the argument

very best,

Keith Arsenault
President
IAEG -  International Arts & Entertainment Group 
Tampa, Florida

813 831 3465 Mr. Arsenault's Office
813 205 0893 Mr. Arsenault's Cellular

www.iaeginc.com

------------------------------

Message-ID: <1835.129.252.241.105.1089640636.squirrel [at] webmail.columbia.sc>
In-Reply-To: <list-3868697 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-3868697 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:57:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: Hemp House Rigging
From: usctd [at] columbia.sc

Jay O. Glerum's "Stage Rigging Handbook" is the most complete book that I
know of.  Not only does it give a great primer on hemp rigging, but also
resultants and mechanical advantage which are soooo important in that kind
of house(or any house for that matter!).

You should also have a good knot book handy.  I have found Budsworth and
Dalton's "The book of Knots- How to Tie 200 Practical Knots" to be very
useful and easy to use.  Someone on the list recomended it to me.

-- 
Eric Rouse
TD-University of SC, Columbia
Freelance Foyboy

> For info, archives &amp; UNSUBSCRIBE, see
> >;http://stagecraft.theprices.net/


------------------------------

Message-ID: <40F29F1D.2010503 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:24:29 -0400
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Subject: Clapton Tour

Hi All,
Had occasion to see Eric Clapton with Robert Randolph in Buffalo last 
Friday and have a question for anyone who might be out with that tour. 
Can you tell me what the drop behind the blackout drape was that was 
revealed a couple times during the show??   It appeared to be a randomly 
hung collection of used painter's drop cloths but it was hard to tell 
from the distance of the sound mix position 45 rows back on the floor. 
It took light REALLY well and had great visual impact for such a simple 
thing.  Just curious if anyone knows.  TIA
Regards,
Steve Rees, TD
SUNY-Fredonia


------------------------------

From: "RICHARD FINKELSTEIN" <rfinkels [at] msn.com>
Cc: rfinkels [at] msn.com
Subject: plays as scenes in movies
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:29:53 -0400
Message-ID: <BAY3-F35nZJFovTPysx000e47e2 [at] hotmail.com>

OK. It's summer and time for a fun challenge" And I'd love to include the 
results as an Artslynx resource.

I have always, as a set designer, been fascinated by movies that have a 
sequence or more shot in a theatre with a show going on.  I always thought 
that a list of such shows would be great to have!

Of course there are movies that are really filmed stage shows....we could 
list those too
or even theatre-dance movies about a theatre/dance company or artist. Of 
course these have performance shots.

But the ones that most interest me are those where there are isolated 
theatre performance scenes.

So whichever of these three categories, send me suggestions of my list. Feel 
free to annotate. Here are a few to start with.......


Movies with isolated theatre performance scenes:

Bergagman's "Fanny and Alexander" - includes a beautiful scene of a 19th 
century theatre show with great period effects


Movies on theatre topics which show live shows within:

The turning point
Topsy Turvey
The Dresser
The Red Shoes (you can see Massine dancing!)


Movies of shows as though they are performed on stage:

Stop the world I want to get Off
Oh Calcutta

"Making of" theatre pieces:

"Moon over Broadway" profiling the difficulties with creating "Moon over 
Buffalo"



------------------------------

Message-ID: <40F2A23E.7090607 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:37:50 -0400
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Subject: Re: Hemp House Rigging
References: <list-3868697 [at] prxy.net>

Robert,
If you can find a copy of "Scenery for the The Theatre" by Harold 
Burris-Meyer and Edward C. Cole, you will find lots of good basic 
information concerning this topic.  I think it might be out of print by 
now but was a valuable resource in it's day - the '70s.
Regards,
Steve Rees, TD
SUNY-Fredonia

Robert Ashley wrote:
  And I was wondering if anyone knew of any good hemp house
> rigging "handbooks" or websites. 


------------------------------

Message-ID: <000601c4681e$6e2f07a0$0201a8c0 [at] BRUTUS>
From: "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
References: <list-3869340 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: plays as scenes in movies
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 07:42:16 -0700

> The turning point
> Topsy Turvey
> The Dresser
> The Red Shoes (you can see Massine dancing!)
>


The first one that I'd 'nominate' you already put on your list:  "The Red
Shoes" - one of my favs.  So gorgeous!  Besides Massine's excellent dancing
(and his outstanding choreography for his "Shoemaker" character) the sets
(for the performance) and paintings are wonderful.  Hein Heckroth's
paintings are terrific, and if you get the DVD, you're treated to more
images by Heckroth for the movie.  You can even watch the ballet of the Red
Shoes with an alternate angle: Heckroth's painted storyboards.

If anyone is interested in this great movie, I highly recommend checking out
the DVD - it also has stuff on Scorsese's personal collection of Red Shoes
memorabilia, and the film was transfered and retimed under the supervision
of the original DP, Jack Cardiff.  Plus, Anton Walbrook is a study in
task-focused acting.

Another movie to add to your list, Richard:  "Amadeus."  All those opera
scenes.

   -- Jon Ares
www.hevanet.com/acreative


------------------------------

From: "Michael Eddy" <michael [at] plasa.org>
Subject: Re: Clapton Tour
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:49:50 -0400
In-Reply-To: <list-3869310 [at] prxy.net>
Message-ID: <auto-000003869464 [at] prxy.net>

Had occasion to see Eric Clapton with Robert Randolph in Buffalo last 
Friday and have a question for anyone who might be out with that tour. 
Can you tell me what the drop behind the blackout drape was that was 
revealed a couple times during the show??   It appeared to be a randomly 
hung collection of used painter's drop cloths but it was hard to tell 
from the distance of the sound mix position 45 rows back on the floor. 
It took light REALLY well and had great visual impact for such a simple 
thing.  

I saw the show in NYC and am writing about it for the next issue. What an
amazing show and I loved Robert Randolph. The drop was fabricated by Atomic
Design out of Lititz PA.

Atomic Designs Inc 
10 Wynfield Drive, Lititz, PA 17543 
(717) 626-8301
http://www.atomicdesigninc.com

Someone on one of the Clapton fansites described it as 'Oh, that's where all
of my socks and sheets went that get lost in the dryer.'

The LD is Dave Maxwell from Ireland, who is coming off the road to start a
family and he runs a drape company in County Wicklow Ireland, called
Drapeage. www.drapeage.ie. I could think of a lot of worse places to have a
company!

HTH,

Michael S. Eddy
Lighting&Sound America
 
michael [at] plasa.org
www.lightingandsoundamerica.com


------------------------------

Message-Id: <200407121457.i6CEvZcC010049 [at] webmail.longwood.edu>
From: "Paul Schreiner" <schreinerpd [at] longwood.edu>
Subject: Re: plays as scenes in movies
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 10:57:28 -0400
In-Reply-To: <list-3869414 [at] prxy.net>

> Another movie to add to your list, Richard:  "Amadeus."  All 
> those opera scenes.

You beat me to it on this one.

It's been quite some time (and if I could remember what my memory was like
I'd probably be able to say with more certainty that it isn't what it was),
but isn't there a scene from something at the Met in "Moonstruck"?


------------------------------

Message-ID: <40F2A7C7.9050207 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:01:27 -0400
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Subject: Re: Clapton Tour
References: <list-3869465 [at] prxy.net>

Thanks Michael, for your prompt reply.  Checked out Atomic's site and 
was very impressed.
Regards,
Steve Rees

Michael Eddy wrote:

> I saw the show in NYC and am writing about it for the next issue. What an
> amazing show and I loved Robert Randolph. The drop was fabricated by Atomic
> Design out of Lititz PA.
> 
> Atomic Designs Inc 
> 10 Wynfield Drive, Lititz, PA 17543 
> (717) 626-8301
> http://www.atomicdesigninc.com
> 
> Someone on one of the Clapton fansites described it as 'Oh, that's where all
> of my socks and sheets went that get lost in the dryer.'
>


------------------------------

Message-Id: <200407121504.i6CF4MdB010267 [at] webmail.longwood.edu>
From: "Paul Schreiner" <schreinerpd [at] longwood.edu>
Subject: Re: plays as scenes in movies
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:04:15 -0400
In-Reply-To: <list-3869526 [at] prxy.net>

> It's been quite some time (and if I could remember what my 
> memory was like I'd probably be able to say with more 
> certainty that it isn't what it was), but isn't there a scene 
> from something at the Met in "Moonstruck"?

Der.  Always happens.  Give myself another minute or two and I answer my own
question.

"Moonstruck", IIRC, has a scene from "La Boheme" in it.

Of course, if I'm completely mistaken and smoking something in my pipe other
than the usual (legal) stuff, you have permission to send me to my room or
something.


------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1e8.24f18590.2e2408f2 [at] aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:32:02 EDT
Subject: Re: Clapton Tour


In a message dated 7/12/04 7:52:41 AM, michael [at] plasa.org writes:

<< 
I saw the show in NYC and am writing about it for the next issue. What an
amazing show and I loved Robert Randolph. The drop was fabricated by Atomic
Design out of Lititz PA. >>


from the description that is what I was about to offer as an "educated" guess!

very best,

Keith Arsenault

IAEG -  International Arts & Entertainment Group 
Tampa, Florida

------------------------------

Message-ID: <40F2AFCB.7000404 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 11:35:39 -0400
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Subject: Re: plays as scenes in movies
References: <list-3869526 [at] prxy.net>

Hi,
There was an opening scene in "Breaking Away" that took place at a 
production of Aida - supposedly at IU but really filmed at the Univ. of 
Georgia.  A complete set was built and a cast rehearsed and about 15 
seconds of it wound up in the film.
Steve Rees

Paul Schreiner wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
>>Another movie to add to your list, Richard:  "Amadeus."  All 
>>those opera scenes.
> 
> 
> You beat me to it on this one.
> 
> It's been quite some time (and if I could remember what my memory was like
> I'd probably be able to say with more certainty that it isn't what it was),
> but isn't there a scene from something at the Met in "Moonstruck"?



------------------------------

Message-ID: <20040712154344.65176.qmail [at] web50509.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 08:43:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: James Kosmatka <james [at] cleveland-theater.com>
Subject: Re: plays as scenes in movies
In-Reply-To: <list-3869340 [at] prxy.net>

Off the top of my head...

Mary Jane is in Earnest in the new Spider-Man sequel
(a clever analogy to the double-identities and love).


--- RICHARD FINKELSTEIN <rfinkels [at] msn.com> wrote:
> I have always, as a set designer, been fascinated by
> movies that have a 
> sequence or more shot in a theatre with a show going
> on.  I always thought 
> that a list of such shows would be great to have!


------------------------------

Message-ID: <001201c46827$7a6ddc90$0201a8c0 [at] BRUTUS>
From: "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
References: <list-3869526 [at] prxy.net> <list-3869758 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: plays as scenes in movies
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 08:47:02 -0700

> There was an opening scene in "Breaking Away" that took place at a
> production of Aida - supposedly at IU but really filmed at the Univ. of
> Georgia.  A complete set was built and a cast rehearsed and about 15
> seconds of it wound up in the film.


Don't know if Richard would count "Waiting for Guffman...."  They wrote and
performed it as a play.  According to the Director's Commentary, their
'show' was about an hour long, and they rehearsed it and performed it (in
front of a live audience in the gym) something like 3 times, while it was
shot linearly.  They commented on having all the usual live performance
nerves, etc, singing and dancing in front of a live audience.

And let's talk about reality!  :)  For a community and production with no
budget, where did they get that black scrim they're rigging in one scene?
And did you see that apron extension on the gymnatorium stage?  2x4 legs
about every 10".  My favorite is the orchestra though.  How can 5 people
sound like a 40 piece orch?  And they're damn good for being in the middle
o' nowhere.  (But I do love the shot of the trumpet player/timanist.)  In
the deleted song ("Bulging River") I love the rain effect - strings of
videotape glinting in the light?

 -- Jon Ares
www.hevanet.com/acreative


------------------------------

Cc: rfinkels [at] msn.com
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 08:48:27 -0700
Subject: Re: plays as scenes in movies
Message-ID: <20040712.084900.2836.1.ladesigners [at] juno.com>
From: Richard Niederberg <ladesigners [at] juno.com>

Misc. Theatre scenes in Movies; please feel free to 
redistribute or eliminate as appropriate:

"Foul Play" -Mikado- (Chase/Hawn)
"Citizen Kane" famous 'pan up' to stagehand scene
"Chorus Line" (Douglas)
"The Rabbit of Seville" & "That's Opera Doc"
"To Be or Not to Be" (Brooks/Bancroft)
"Showgirls" (Berkey/McLaughlin)
"Holiday Inn" (Crosby, et al)
"Yankee Doodle Dandy" (Cagney)

/s/ Richard

> Movies on theatre topics which show live shows within:
> The turning point
> Topsy Turvey
> The Dresser
> The Red Shoes (you can see Massine dancing!)

> Movies of shows as though they are performed on stage:
> Stop the world I want to get Off
> Oh Calcutta
 
> "Making of" theatre pieces:
> "Moon over Broadway" profiling the difficulties with 
> creating "Moon over Buffalo"

________________________________________________________________
The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

------------------------------

Message-ID: <40F2B667.2090109 [at] peak.org>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:03:51 -0700
From: Pat Kight <kightp [at] peak.org>
Subject: Re: plays as scenes in movies
References: <list-3869340 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-3869340 [at] prxy.net>

RICHARD FINKELSTEIN wrote:

> Movies with isolated theatre performance scenes:
>
Shakespeare in Love!

> Movies on theatre topics which show live shows within:
>
> The turning point
> Topsy Turvey
> The Dresser
> The Red Shoes (you can see Massine dancing!) 

Cosi - terrific Australian film about a young amateur theatrical 
director who stages "Cosi Fan Tutte" in a hospital for the mentally ill.
Waiting for Guffman, of course.
Moulin Rouge, sort of.

> Movies of shows as though they are performed on stage:
>
> Stop the world I want to get Off
> Oh Calcutta

>
>
> "Making of" theatre pieces:
>
> "Moon over Broadway" profiling the difficulties with creating "Moon 
> over Buffalo" 

Looking for Richard - Al Pacino's 1996 thoughtful piece on putting 
together a production of Richard III. All about the acting and character 
development, but still ...




------------------------------

Message-ID: <002301c4682b$a97a6630$0201a8c0 [at] BRUTUS>
From: "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
References: <list-3869340 [at] prxy.net> <list-3869913 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: plays as scenes in movies
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 09:16:59 -0700

> Looking for Richard - Al Pacino's 1996 thoughtful piece on putting 
> together a production of Richard III. All about the acting and character 
> development, but still ...
> 


...Which reminds me of "The Dresser."

 -- Jon Ares
www.hevanet.com/acreative 

------------------------------

From: "Kacey Fisher" <Kacey [at] FisherTheatrical.com>
Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:01:47 -0400
Message-ID: <HIELJPEOIEHEFGLKMKMJAEHKDBAA.Kacey [at] FisherTheatrical.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-3864205 [at] prxy.net>



> 2.  I have not heard of any limitations of length of batten for
> the Vortek
> system.  The original design was only 6 lines, but even that
> wouldn't have
> created at 42 foot limit.

Mike,

We have a church that we work with (along with Delbert) here that is over
80' wide.  I think i's almost 120' but I could be off.  They were discussing
a Vortek system but were told about the limit.  Not sure if the limit was
exactly 42' but the only way they were going to be able to have one was to
double the system on the other side. So, lineset 1 would be controlled by
two different motors and be split down the middle.  Could be a neat way to
control things in terms of SL/SR, but there was no way to connect the
controls together so that batten 1a and 1b would travel together.

Sincerely,
Kacey Fisher
President, Fisher Theatrical



------------------------------

Message-Id: <p06020400bd18597ada86 [at] [134.53.196.69]>
In-Reply-To: <list-3869340 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-3869340 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:18:10 -0400
From: Gion DeFrancesco <defranga [at] po.muohio.edu>
Subject: Re: plays as scenes in movies

<!doctype html public "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<html><head><style type="text/css"><!--
blockquote, dl, ul, ol, li { padding-top: 0 ; padding-bottom: 0 }
 --></style><title>Re: plays as scenes in movies</title></head><body>
<blockquote type="cite" cite>I have always, as a set designer, been
fascinated by movies that have a sequence or more shot in a theatre
with a show going on.&nbsp; I always thought that a list of such shows
would be great to have!</blockquote>
<div><br></div>
<div>Dead Poet's Society (Midsummer Night's Dream)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>The film of<i> A Little Night Music</i> (in addition to the
play-within-a-play scene that's in the musical, I remember the film
being framed as a stage performance - shots of stagehands moving
cutout trees around during the opening waltz melds into
&quot;reality&quot;)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Camp (2003) (The musical theatre sequences are actually the best
part of the film)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>There's a great segment in the film of Pirates of Penzance
(Ronstadt, Kline et al.) where an added chase scene interrupts a local
(and horrible!) production of &quot;Pinafore&quot;</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>The Goodbye Girl (Richard III)</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>The old MGM composer &quot;biography&quot; movies try to recreate
original productions of stage musicals:<i> Till The Clouds Roll By</i>
(Jerome Kern),<i> Words and Music</i> (Rodgers and Hart) come to
mind...</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<x-sigsep><pre>-- 
</pre></x-sigsep>
<div>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<br>
Gion DeFrancesco<br>
Assistant Professor of Theatre/Scene Designer<br>
MUT Production Manager<br>
Miami University<br>
131 Center for Performing Arts<br>
Oxford, OH 45056<br>
513.529.8318<br>
<br>
On the web at http://arts.muohio.edu/defranga<br>
<br>
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++<br>
&quot;There are no hopeless situations; there are only men who have
grown hopeless about them.&quot; Clare Boothe Luce<br>
</div>
</body>
</html>

------------------------------

From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <193.2ba720d6.2e24304e [at] aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:19:58 EDT
Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system


In a message dated 7/12/04 2:06:17 PM, Kacey [at] FisherTheatrical.com writes:

<< We have a church that we work with (along with Delbert) here that is over
80' wide.  I think i's almost 120' but I could be off.  They were discussing
a Vortek system but were told about the limit.  Not sure if the limit was
exactly 42' but the only way they were going to be able to have one was to
double the system on the other side. So, lineset 1 would be controlled by
two different motors and be split down the middle.  Could be a neat way to
control things in terms of SL/SR, but there was no way to connect the
controls together so that batten 1a and 1b would travel together. >>


OK, As I've noted before, I've not seen the Vortek system.  However, there 
has to be a batten length limit because there can only be a finite number of 
loft blocks in the system and the winch drum can only accept a finite number of 
lines.  Also, the drum can only accept a finite amount of cable.  The idea 
being to create a device that is small enough to allow for 9" centers means there 
has to be limitations.  This would be true of ANY system that relied on a 
cable drum and loft block style for lifting.

42' sound right as that would be a 5- line set.  5 lines at 1/4" (or is it 
3/16"?) with a travel distance of 40' will take up a fair amount of drum width.

Bill S.



Sapsis Rigging, Inc.
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851 fax
267.278.4561 mobile
We stand behind, and under, our work.
                             


------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.0.20040712141416.05ddb800 [at] mail.insightbb.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:19:41 -0500
From: Mike Brubaker <mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system
In-Reply-To: <list-3870802 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-3864205 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-3870802 [at] prxy.net>

This is very good to know!  A couple of other questions that are, I expect, 
relevant:
1.  How much travel?
2.  At what capacity?

Standard Vortek uses 3/16" cable with a lineset capacity of 1000#.

The controls that I've seen would allow you to synchronize battens 1a and 
1b.  However, the operator would still see two discreet battens, 
right?  Maybe lineset submasters should be built into the control 
system.  Think about, say, a flying ceiling where you might need a bunch of 
battens to move at the same time and rate.  Just thinking out loud.

Mike

At 01:01 PM 7/12/2004, Kacey Fisher wrote:
> > 2.  I have not heard of any limitations of length of batten for
> > the Vortek
> > system.  The original design was only 6 lines, but even that
> > wouldn't have
> > created at 42 foot limit.
>
>a Vortek system but were told about the limit.  Not sure if the limit was
>exactly 42' but the only way they were going to be able to have one was to
>double the system on the other side. So, lineset 1 would be controlled by
>two different motors and be split down the middle.  Could be a neat way to
>control things in terms of SL/SR, but there was no way to connect the
>controls together so that batten 1a and 1b would travel together.


------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.0.20040712142009.05dfe5b0 [at] mail.insightbb.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:27:50 -0500
From: Mike Brubaker <mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system
In-Reply-To: <list-3864533 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-3864533 [at] prxy.net>

Steve,

The big difference between the Vortek (and, presumably, similar systems) 
and traditional powered rigging (hydraulic, winch, etc) is load 
sensing.  As a part of the hanging process, you, the operator, "teach" the 
control system what the load hanging from the batten looks like as the 
batten moves through its travel.  If, then, the load varies in either 
direction (lighter/heavier) from this learned profile by some amount (set 
by you as the operator)--say, 2 pounds, the set stops.

The situation you describe should be avoidable with the Vortek, as there 
would be a significant change in the loading from that the control system 
was taught.

I believe that rigging systems like this (load sensing, preset controls, 
etc) have been in use in some of the larger halls in Europe and in Las 
Vegas for years--the big difference being that these were fully custom 
installations.  Hoffend is selling this as almost an "off-the-shelf" product.

Mike

At 03:35 PM 7/11/2004, Stephen Litterst wrote:

>switched linesets but forgot to turn off the previous line, so when he hit
>the go button, he ripped apart a leg that had been attached to the deck.
>
>Minor situation, minor damage, but a live operator would have noticed the
>increased weight on the line, even if they hadn't seen the leg.


------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20040712132343.026e5800 [at] localhost>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 13:31:00 -0700
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: winch question

First, I'm not a rigger so forgive me if this sounds dumb...

Most of the horizontal width taken up by a winch is due to the size of the 
drum since it has to be big enough to wind all the cable on.

It seems to me the following should work:

Get two smaller diameter drums with groves on them (think a spline like a 
wide notch-belt pulley),

Place one above the other with a reasonable gap between them,

Place a wide notch belt around the two drums/pulleys,

Attach the cable to one edge of the notch belt,

Motor drive to either drum/pulley.

Now, the cable (guided and cushioned by the belt) wraps over both pulleys, 
allowing the storage of a large amount of cable with a narrow horizontal 
profile.

You wind up with a tall, skinny drum.

----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523  USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886
fax:  +1 408 356-4659
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:48:53 -0400
From: MissWisc [at] aol.com
Subject: Re: plays as scenes in movies
Message-ID: <68F88E36.4C9EEE1F.007B9F2A [at] aol.com>

Would you want to include "Center Stage" about the ballet world with several ballet scenes included?

King and I  (small house)

All the Judy Garland/Mickey Roney "lets put on a play" shows.

Kristi

------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <ae.5c852141.2e2453f0 [at] aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:52:00 EDT
Subject: Re: plays as scenes in movies


In a message dated 7/12/04 1:50:22 PM, MissWisc [at] aol.com writes:

<< All the Judy Garland/Mickey Roney "lets put on a play" shows.

 >>

i for one was trying to forget about those, , , 

very best,

Keith Arsenault

IAEG -  International Arts & Entertainment Group 
Tampa, Florida

------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20040712162623.0280ce70 [at] mail.kingphilip.org>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:53:07 -0400
From: "H-High-S (Ferreira, Jr.)" <ferreiraj [at] kingphilip.org>
Subject: Vortek - Thanks for views and another inquiry

Hi everyone:

      It has been very instructive to read all of the on-list and off-list 
postings I have received concerning the Vortek system and the pros & cons 
of motorized vs. counterweight rigging.  I feel a bit better informed about 
this, though there is still a long way to go before final decisions are 
made.  Having theatre professionals and other educators jump into this 
discussion/debate at least gives me the chance to be better informed than I 
would have otherwise been, especially in such a short time.  Thank you to 
everyone who offered views and information from their own experiences.

      In an unrelated matter, last year, under threat of being shut down by 
the town building and electrical inspector, we had to have a complete set 
of face plates for our Kleigl SafePatch patch panel replaced to prevent 
shocks/electrocutions/etc.  Luckily, we found a local plastics manufacturer 
who easily duplicated all of our four-hole and six-hole face-plates and, of 
all things, donated them to us.  However, we found ourselves with 10 
intact, original Bakelite face-plates that are in good condition.  When we 
bought the only two originals we could find in a vain attempt to appease 
the building and electrical gods (we really needed 6 - 7 at the time), we 
had to shell out $100 apiece.  My question is, is there still a market for 
these things and, if so, where can I sell them to at least recoup what we 
had to pay three years ago?  Also, with the impending 
renovation/reconstruction of our school and theatre facility, We will have 
spare parts galore for a sixty circuit Kleigl SafePatch patch panel, 
including single-pole connectors, connector switches, and, of course, the 
new face-plates we now have.  Same question, is there/will there  be a 
market for these items and, if so, where/how can I go about selling it off 
to obtain a bit of extra funding for new equipment not provided for in the 
construction/theatre budget for the new facility?  Thanks for any 
thoughts/suggestions.

Cordially,
Joe Ferreira

Joseph J. Ferreira, Jr.
Department of Social Studies
Director, KP Drama & GAPS
King Philip Regional High School
201 Franklin Street
Wrentham, MA 02093
Web page: http://fac.kingphilip.org/~ferreiraj/
E-mail: ferreiraj [at] kingphilip.org 


------------------------------

From: Bsapsis [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1f1.25099dc8.2e245a49 [at] aol.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 17:19:05 EDT
Subject: Re: winch question


In a message dated 7/12/04 4:32:14 PM, jdurand [at] interstellar.com writes:

<< You wind up with a tall, skinny drum. >>

What you are describing, if I have the image correct in my head, is called a 
pile up drum.  You take and wrap the wire rope over itself..."piling' up on 
itself.

These are a good way to save horizontal space.  The danger comes in loading 
too much weight on the wire rope.  Because it's piling up on itself, you run 
the risk of crushing the wire rope in the wrap under the one you are adding.  
(does that makes sense)

So, it can and has been done.  You just have to watch your load ratings a bit.

Bill S.

Sapsis Rigging, Inc.
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851 fax
267.278.4561 mobile
We stand behind, and under, our work.
                             


------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.0.20040712162201.028cac78 [at] mail.insightbb.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 16:34:05 -0500
From: Mike Brubaker <mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: winch question
In-Reply-To: <list-3872090 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-3872090 [at] prxy.net>

How about, instead of reducing the length, the goal is to maintain the 
length but reduce the width (reducing the drum diameter).  Please excuse 
the art.  Take two, smaller drums above one another:

     O

     O

Connect them with a belt or chain:

    O
    | |
    | |
    O

Connect the end of the lift line to the belt or chain.  This end now 
travels around the full assembly, rather than one drum.

      |
      |  <--lift line
      |
    O  <--drum
    | |  <--line/belt
    | |
    O  <--drum

The end result might look something like this in the other view:

      |
      |
    =||||||=
      ||||||
      ||||||
    =||||||=

This would give you the effect of a much larger drum (for the purposes of 
number of wraps, physical width of drums, etc.).

Mike

At 04:19 PM 7/12/2004, Bsapsis [at] aol.com wrote:
><< You wind up with a tall, skinny drum. >>
>
>What you are describing, if I have the image correct in my head, is called a
>pile up drum.  You take and wrap the wire rope over itself..."piling' up on
>itself.


------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20040712144943.02691248 [at] localhost>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:51:14 -0700
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: winch question
In-Reply-To: <list-3872090 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-3872090 [at] prxy.net>

At 02:19 PM 7/12/2004, you wrote:
>In a message dated 7/12/04 4:32:14 PM, jdurand [at] interstellar.com writes:
>
><< You wind up with a tall, skinny drum. >>
>
>What you are describing, if I have the image correct in my head, is called a
>pile up drum.  You take and wrap the wire rope over itself..."piling' up on
>itself.

I was thinking of a single layer, the belt would be wide so it would take 
up horizontal depth, but very little width.



----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523  USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886
fax:  +1 408 356-4659
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20040712145224.02701730 [at] localhost>
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:52:38 -0700
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: [spamcatcher] Re: winch question
In-Reply-To: <list-3872195 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-3872090 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-3872195 [at] prxy.net>

At 02:34 PM 7/12/2004, you wrote:
>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>How about, instead of reducing the length, the goal is to maintain the 
>length but reduce the width (reducing the drum diameter).  Please excuse 
>the art.  Take two, smaller drums above one another:


That's what I had in mind.



----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523  USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886
fax:  +1 408 356-4659
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

From: "Douglas McCracken" <dbasMcCracken [at] hawaii.rr.com>
Subject: Re: plays as scenes in movies
Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2004 14:18:53 -1000
Message-ID: <ENEBJMDCJLFCMCJBJAMPIECGCEAA.dbasMcCracken [at] hawaii.rr.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-3869340 [at] prxy.net>

I'm not an opera person, so this is my question.

What is the opera the cowboy attends?

Aloha,

Douglas 


------------------------------

From: "Jason" <OneOccy [at] hotmail.com>
References: <list-3864533 [at] prxy.net> <list-3871361 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek system
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 02:21:22 -0700
Message-ID: <BAY7-DAV36Z3A18Ig9S0003ba12 [at] hotmail.com>

I heard that the Royal Opera House in London about a month ago had their
automated rigging failed and had 2000 pounds parts of scenic rip their alum
trust battens apart spearing the deck and lifting it and one just about
spearing a cello player within inches.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mike Brubaker" <mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com>
> The big difference between the Vortek (and, presumably, similar systems)
> and traditional powered rigging (hydraulic, winch, etc) is load
> sensing.  As a part of the hanging process, you, the operator, "teach" the
> control system what the load hanging from the batten looks like as the
> batten moves through its travel.  If, then, the load varies in either
> direction (lighter/heavier) from this learned profile by some amount (set
> by you as the operator)--say, 2 pounds, the set stops.
>
> The situation you describe should be avoidable with the Vortek, as there
> would be a significant change in the loading from that the control system
> was taught.
>
> I believe that rigging systems like this (load sensing, preset controls,
> etc) have been in use in some of the larger halls in Europe and in Las
> Vegas for years--the big difference being that these were fully custom
> installations.  Hoffend is selling this as almost an "off-the-shelf"
product.

------------------------------

From: "Jason" <OneOccy [at] hotmail.com>
References: <list-3872090 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: winch question
Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2004 02:30:07 -0700
Message-ID: <BAY7-DAV2181Np7vXee000325e9 [at] hotmail.com>

Most commonly used in people flying EFX and a few other non hard usage
rigging.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <Bsapsis [at] aol.com>
 << You wind up with a tall, skinny drum. >>
>
> What you are describing, if I have the image correct in my head, is called
a
> pile up drum.  You take and wrap the wire rope over itself..."piling' up
on
> itself.
>
> These are a good way to save horizontal space.  The danger comes in
loading
> too much weight on the wire rope.  Because it's piling up on itself, you
run
> the risk of crushing the wire rope in the wrap under the one you are
adding.
> (does that makes sense)
>
> So, it can and has been done.  You just have to watch your load ratings a
bit.
>
> Bill S.
>


------------------------------

End of Stagecraft Digest #69
****************************