Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2) with PIPE id 4290593; Tue, 31 Aug 2004 03:01:18 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #118 Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 03:00:57 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.0-pre4 (2004-08-04) on prxy.net X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.0 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, INFO_TLD,NO_EXPERIENCE autolearn=ham version=3.0.0-pre4 X-Spam-Level: X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4a3 For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #118 1. Re: New Labor Rules by Steve Bailey 2. Re: Protests in NYC. by "Stephen E. Rees" 3. Re: Re[4]: Light a fire from afar by "Steven Haworth" 4. Re: Re[4]: Light a fire from afar by "Delbert Hall" 5. Re: Re[4]: Light a fire from afar by "Randy B." 6. Re: Fog Maker by MPTecDir [at] aol.com 7. Re: Light a fire from afar by MPTecDir [at] aol.com 8. Re: Fog Maker by "Tony Deeming" 9. Fake wrought iron railings by Shell Dalzell 10. Re: Fake wrought iron railings by "Jon Ares" 11. Re: Fog Maker by Stuart Wheaton 12. Re: New subject - Fog Maker by Joe 13. IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? by "Scott C. Parker" 14. Re: IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? by "Big Fred Schoening" 15. Re: IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? by "Big Fred Schoening" 16. Re: IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? by "Jon Ares" 17. Re: IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? by "Nicholas Kuhl" 18. Re: IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? by Herrick 19. Re: IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? by Herrick *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 07:29:00 -0400 From: Steve Bailey Subject: Re: New Labor Rules Message-id: <001f01c48e84$8c224560$6401a8c0 [at] computer> References:

----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Wheaton" > Steve Bailey wrote: > > > All true but I believe there's also a dollar amount associated with > > "interstate" commerce, before the rule kicks in. Last I saw it was $250,000 > > or something > > NOPE, not if they want to find a handle to get you by. > > Federal firearms laws in this country get average citizens > by means of the intersate commerce clause. If you buy or > use, or have anything in your theatre that is not made in > your state, then in the eyes of the GOV, you have engaged in > interstate commerce. My reply only refered to the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act, which had a dollar amount as part of the requirement for a company doing interstate commerce. Certainly other laws have different requirements Steve B/ ------------------------------ Message-ID: <413323EB.7000508 [at] fredonia.edu> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 08:56:11 -0400 From: "Stephen E. Rees" Subject: Re: Protests in NYC. References: Good on her! Best, Steve Bsapsis [at] aol.com wrote: > Gotta tell ya, I am one proud Dad. > > Bill S. ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Re[4]: Light a fire from afar Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 09:33:18 -0500 Message-ID: <721DC9EE550F834A92EC08BDC332B0EE01608128 [at] trader.river.idm.com> From: "Steven Haworth" Something like this was actually done at a Boy Scout camp I was at in = the 80s - (Owasippe Scout Reservation, Camp Blackhawk - Whitehall, MI, = if anyone is curious). The main camp firebowl usually had two huge = bonfires, and the bowl extended up a steep hillside in about a 120 deg = arc. One year, the start-of-the-week fire was started by 'Skylab', = which was falling that year. From way up that hill (perhaps 60' above the bowl's floor), someone = strung a line down to the top of one of the piles of wood, which was = probably soaked w/gasoline or something flammable. A pulley was rigged = on the line and carried something flaming. It was lit at the top of the = hill, 'fell' into the fire, and started the night. Pretty cool effect, and because it was dark you couldn't see the line or = the person lighting the pulley-thingie way up the hill. - Steven (sjh [at] idm.com) --------------------------- http://www.stagelights.info ------------------------------ From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: RE: Re[4]: Light a fire from afar Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:03:28 -0400 Organization: ETSU Message-ID: <000001c48eaa$e4bd6b20$6400a8c0 [at] delbert> In-reply-to: Here is a trick that I used to do in Boy Scout camp (back in the late '60s to light a campfire. First, I ran a small pipe (the material does not matter) from afar to the place where the fire will be. A string or wire will run through the pipe. As I arranged the wood for the fire, I rigged a tin can (on a clothes hanger) inside the wood, so that I could use the string to invert the can so that its contents would spill onto an exact location. I put about a 1.5 cups of powered chlorine (from our swimming pool) into an aluminum foil dish that I would make, and placed it just below the tin can. I filled the tin can about 3/4 fill with Pine Soil. When you tip the can over, the Pine Soil (pine oil) mixes with the chlorine and the chemical reaction produces smoke and then fire. This catches the wood on fire and the campfire blazes. It was very impressive. Note: ONLY do this outdoors, as the smoke is very toxic. -Delbert -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Steven Haworth Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:33 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Re[4]: Light a fire from afar For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Something like this was actually done at a Boy Scout camp I was at in the 80s - (Owasippe Scout Reservation, Camp Blackhawk - Whitehall, MI, if anyone is curious). The main camp firebowl usually had two huge bonfires, and the bowl extended up a steep hillside in about a 120 deg arc. One year, the start-of-the-week fire was started by 'Skylab', which was falling that year. From way up that hill (perhaps 60' above the bowl's floor), someone strung a line down to the top of one of the piles of wood, which was probably soaked w/gasoline or something flammable. A pulley was rigged on the line and carried something flaming. It was lit at the top of the hill, 'fell' into the fire, and started the night. Pretty cool effect, and because it was dark you couldn't see the line or the person lighting the pulley-thingie way up the hill. - Steven (sjh [at] idm.com) --------------------------- http://www.stagelights.info ------------------------------ Message-ID: <004501c48eb7$05bd06d0$a0504898 [at] D10SKY11> From: "Randy B." References: Subject: Re: Re[4]: Light a fire from afar Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:30:19 -0500 I have used the same trick except for the chlorine we used '2000 flushes toilet bowl cleaner and automotive (DOT3) brake fluid. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Delbert Hall" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 11:03 AM Subject: Re: Re[4]: Light a fire from afar > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Here is a trick that I used to do in Boy Scout camp (back in the late > '60s to light a campfire. > > First, I ran a small pipe (the material does not matter) from afar to > the place where the fire will be. A string or wire will run through the > pipe. > > As I arranged the wood for the fire, I rigged a tin can (on a clothes > hanger) inside the wood, so that I could use the string to invert the > can so that its contents would spill onto an exact location. > > I put about a 1.5 cups of powered chlorine (from our swimming pool) into > an aluminum foil dish that I would make, and placed it just below the > tin can. I filled the tin can about 3/4 fill with Pine Soil. > > When you tip the can over, the Pine Soil (pine oil) mixes with the > chlorine and the chemical reaction produces smoke and then fire. This > catches the wood on fire and the campfire blazes. It was very > impressive. > > Note: ONLY do this outdoors, as the smoke is very toxic. > > -Delbert > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Steven > Haworth > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 10:33 AM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Re: Re[4]: Light a fire from afar > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Something like this was actually done at a Boy Scout camp I was at in > the 80s - (Owasippe Scout Reservation, Camp Blackhawk - Whitehall, MI, > if anyone is curious). The main camp firebowl usually had two huge > bonfires, and the bowl extended up a steep hillside in about a 120 deg > arc. One year, the start-of-the-week fire was started by 'Skylab', > which was falling that year. > > From way up that hill (perhaps 60' above the bowl's floor), someone > strung a line down to the top of one of the piles of wood, which was > probably soaked w/gasoline or something flammable. A pulley was rigged > on the line and carried something flaming. It was lit at the top of the > hill, 'fell' into the fire, and started the night. > > Pretty cool effect, and because it was dark you couldn't see the line or > the person lighting the pulley-thingie way up the hill. > > - Steven (sjh [at] idm.com) > --------------------------- > http://www.stagelights.info > ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:32:59 -0400 From: MPTecDir [at] aol.com Subject: Re: Fog Maker Message-ID: <0827D7A5.040EEC62.00740ECC [at] aol.com> Dorian Kelly dorian [at] essex.ac.uk writes: << .......... Make sure the water is half full in the tank, and at a rolling boil, the hotter the better. ....., keeping it agitated. ....... >> Dorian, You are right about the agitation, which is why the machines with a spray system work so much better than simply dumping the dry ice into the water. Not to mention the better control of being able to simply start or stop the pump instead of lifting or lowering 50-75 lbs.of frozen stuff. However, the boiling water issue is not correct. In 1979, while teaching at Central U of Iowa one of my students did a study of varying water temps vs: the amount and longevity of fog (BTW, he got an A+). Our fixed perameters were: 1. A fifty gallon drum toped off at 30 gallons of water for the start of each test. 2. Fifty pounds of Dry Ice pellets weighed just before loading the machine with the water already at temp. (Got the dry ice pellets donated so the cost of the experiment was nil) 3. A 50'x 30' bare room with no fans or HVAC running. While the doors and windows were closed during each run to prevent air currents from affecting the results, the test personnel were all above the level of the fog and the room was opened up and aired out between each run. The machine we used had two 1500 watt heating elements. There was a temperature gauge mounted about the midway of the water level and on the opposite side of the drum from the heating elements. The fog outlet was just beneath the top rim of the drum, and there was no fan. That proved totally unnecessary, the real problem was making sure the lid was clamped well as the first time we tested, the gas pressure lifted the lid right off the drum. The results we measured were as follows: 1. Amount of time to completely cover the floor. 2. Total length of time the floor remained covered. 3. Deepest level of fog. The measuring tools were not, shall we say, precision devices. An old (New then!) dial type stop watch, a yard stick and our eyes. To make a long story short, we found the optimum water temp to be between 180 and 200 degrees F, with 190-195 seeming to be about the best. Below 180, the fog became thinner, and the water cooled faster than the heaters could keep up, so the duration suffered. Between 200 and 212 there was no measurable difference in the results except for an additional 20 minutes to get the water up to temp from room temp and obviously a lot more energy used up. At 212, the fog was not as thick, mixed with steam, tended to rise a bit and the duration of the fog dropped off, I don't remember how much and I really haven't the slightest idea where and if any of the paper work from that study still exists. -- Michael Michael Powers, Technical Director U Mass Amherst, Dept of Theatre 112 Fine Arts Center West 151 Presidents Drive Ofc 2 Amherst, MA 01003-9331 Phone: 413-545-6821 Fax: 413-577-0025 http://www.umass.edu/theater/ mfpowers [at] theater.umass.edu mptecdir [at] aol.com ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:46:34 -0400 From: MPTecDir [at] aol.com Cc: mptecdir [at] aol.com, mfpowers [at] theater.umass.edu Subject: Re: Light a fire from afar Message-ID: <6240A227.22EF7E85.00740ECC [at] aol.com> "Frank E. Merrill" writes: << ................what I'd like to do this time would be for the Finger of God to streak down out of the clear sky overhead and set the thing ablaze in a ball of white hot glory ............ Frank, First, remember you actually have two separate events here. The first does not actually have to cause the second, only appear to cause it. Light the fire the way you always have, just make it "seem" to be started by some other event. I have done this on stage a number of times and my method may or may not work for you out of doors. What I have done is simply use a flashpot, electric ignition flame or similar device, depending on the final effect desired for the "event". A quick note here, use electric matches rather than rocket igniters, far more reliable and dependable. In your case, just start the fire as you always have, with whatever method you settle on, seeming to precipitate the event. The "Finger of God" I used that seemed to start the effect was a simple flash cannon aimed at the spot at which the FX seemed to happen. The longest throw I had was about 30' and the fire ball was about 2" in diameter. The advantage of this method is that is very simple, long tube/flash paper/igniter, and that it requires no wire guide. Thus nothing to give away the trick before or after the FX and nothing to get in the way of other activities (in my case, scene changes) before or after the gag. IMHO, a laser is so fast that, without a visual clue such as a storm trooper with a laser rifle or a wizzard making large hand gestures, it is impossible to tell from which direction the light is coming from, i.e. to the fire or from the fire. The flash cannon gag moves fairly fast, 30' in less than a second, but slow enough to give a good sence of direction and cause and effect. Michael Michael Powers, Technical Director U Mass Amherst, Dept of Theatre 112 Fine Arts Center West 151 Presidents Drive Ofc 2 Amherst, MA 01003-9331 Phone: 413-545-6821 Fax: 413-577-0025 http://www.umass.edu/theater/ mfpowers [at] theater.umass.edu mptecdir [at] aol.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002101c48eb9$d7412040$0a01a8c0 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Fog Maker Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:50:30 +0100 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 6:32 PM Subject: Re: Fog Maker > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Dorian Kelly dorian [at] essex.ac.uk writes: > > << .......... Make sure the water is half full in the tank, and > at a rolling boil, the hotter the better. ....., keeping it agitated. ....... >> > > Dorian, > > You are right about the agitation, which is why the machines with a spray system work so much better than simply dumping the dry ice into the water. Not to mention the better control of being able to simply start or stop the pump instead of lifting or lowering 50-75 lbs.of frozen stuff. > > However, the boiling water issue is not correct. In 1979, while teaching at Central U of Iowa one of my students did a study of varying water temps vs: the amount and longevity of fog (BTW, he got an A+). Our fixed perameters were: > > > To make a long story short, we found the optimum water temp to be between 180 and 200 degrees F, with 190-195 seeming to be about the best. Below 180, the fog became thinner, and the water cooled faster than the heaters could keep up, so the duration suffered. Between 200 and 212 there was no measurable difference in the results except for an additional 20 minutes to get the water up to temp from room temp and obviously a lot more energy used up. At 212, the fog was not as thick, mixed with steam, tended to rise a bit and the duration of the fog dropped off, I don't remember how much and I really haven't the slightest idea where and if any of the paper work from that study still exists. > > -- > Michael Excellent supporting evidence, Michael - fortunately backs up my statement earlier - I knew someone would have the answer to the ideal temp, and it had to be in the range you've quoted - 180-200 deg F equates to 80-90 deg C. 8-)))) Cheers Ynot ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 10:33:35 -1000 Subject: Fake wrought iron railings From: Shell Dalzell Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I have had good luck twisting both aluminum and steel in (1/8 x 3/4) in a big vise with a 12" crescent wrench. But the prices on those materials are skyrocketing. I have also been successful using strips of 3mm Sintra or Komatex whichI have heated with a heat gun or oven and then shaped using a template. Very light, cheap, simple. Ta-da. Aloha, Shell > Fake wrought iron railings > > Greetings all. > > I'm designing a show that's set in the French Quarter of New Orleans and > I'm looking for suggestions as to how to replicate decorative wrought > iron railings. The set is an exterior with a balcony that will have a > railing as well as vertical supports and trim at the top (roof line). > The research images show rather intricate and ornate patterns in all the > pieces. Our plan is to frame the structure out in box steel first and > then attach lightweight pieces to fill out the forms. > > I'd welcome hearing suggestions for homemade solutions as well as names > of companies that might sell something like this that's all ready to go > (pre-made vacuform pieces, etc.). ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000b01c48ed3$11152aa0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Fake wrought iron railings Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:51:04 -0700 > I have also been successful using strips of 3mm Sintra or Komatex whichI > have heated with a heat gun or oven and then shaped using a template. > Very > light, cheap, simple. Ta-da. I've done many-a-show using Romex for twirly frou-frou and such wrought iron (can't be spray painted though - the casing of the Romex is made of something that doesn't let the spray paint dry - weird) - but as I think of French Quarter frou-frou, I can't imagine using anything other than pre-formed pieces (either plastic or metal) would be very time-efficient. They are ornate! There is a garden-edging material (black plastic) that looks like wrought iron fleur-de-lis pickets - I used that once for both French window boxes (faux mini balconies, actually) and as roofline Victorian pickets. Looked great. Takes spray paint, too. -- Jon Ares Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4133AD7D.9030907 [at] fuse.net> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:43:09 -0400 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: Fog Maker References: In-Reply-To: MPTecDir [at] aol.com wrote: > To make a long story short, we found the optimum water > temp to be between 180 and 200 degrees F, with 190-195 > seeming to be about the best. Below 180, the fog became > thinner, and the water cooled faster than the heaters > could keep up, so the duration suffered. Between 200 and > 212 there was no measurable difference in the results > except for an additional 20 minutes to get the water up > to temp from room temp and obviously a lot more energy > used up. At 212, the fog was not as thick, mixed with > steam, tended to rise a bit and the duration of the fog > dropped off, I don't remember how much and I really > haven't the slightest idea where and if any of the paper > work from that study still exists. > > One thing I discovered, is that if the water is too warm, or the dry ice sits in the basket too long waiting for the cue, the dry ice gets coated with a layer of condensed water ice which seals the dry ice, and also keeps it from reacting as quickly when you try to start the effect. One Rock and Roll fogger I worked on once had a tray that held about 200 pounds of dry ice and the hot water was pumped into lengths of perforated pipemounted over the tray. That thing could fill an outdoor stage about 4' deep in a real hurry! Perhaps an off the shelf electric water heater could supply the water, and a simpler, seperate ice tray with a collector and return valve and pump to generate the fog? Stuart ------------------------------ Message-Id: <1.5.4.32.20040831023108.012ba6d4 [at] pop.paonline.com> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:31:08 -0400 From: Joe Subject: Re: New subject - Fog Maker As long as we are share fog maker stories... For a short performance on a 10' square platform I produced the fog using two 5-gal ice insulated igloo drink coolers. I just filled them half way with hot tap water, and prepared about 10 lbs of dry ice by breaking it up into chunks roughly ice-cube size and placing them in a towel. Just before that skit, we dropped the dry ice into the warm water and carried the ice chests onto the stage where they were hidden behind a cloth. The dry-ice fog simply flowed out the top of the ice chests which were loosely covered by their lids which reduced the bubbling noise. Since my improvized foggers were pretty small and didn't have a lot of water, the output of the fog certainly diminished as the skit went on because the water started to cool and ice started to form around the remaining chunks of dry ice... but that was perfectly fine for our needs. Joe Dunfee joe [at] dunfee.com Gordonville, Pennsylvania, U.S.A. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20040830230420.03210ec0 [at] mail.hstech.org> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 23:04:25 -0400 From: "Scott C. Parker" Subject: IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? Greetings all, Any opinions on portable players? On music download services? So, my wife's new job gave her Mac laptop and now she wants an iPod. I'm a Windows user and, though I like iTunes, my Sony Clie has a built in MP3 player. I've downloaded several tracks via iTunes, but I've had a lot of trouble with burning their files. I've been looking at the iRiver player with the FM tuner. But, files from iTunes won't play and I don't want to have to purchase files twice. I also like that you can record with the iRiver unit. Thanks, Scott Scott C. Parker Production Designer/Technical Director High School Tech Production Web Site hstech~AT~hstech.org High Schoolers: come visit the HS Tech Web Site... http://www.hstech.org Our Mission: To assist High School Technical Theater students in their desire to learn about, create, and execute theatrical productions. ------------------------------ From: "Big Fred Schoening" Subject: RE: IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:24:49 -0500 Message-ID: <000001c48f1a$d9ef5940$1f8afea9 [at] PRODIGALBRAIN> In-Reply-To: I absolutely love my Creative Labs Nomad Zen. They come in a few different versions, I believe. The software interface is easy, intuitive, and versatile. On the downside, you don't get the cool little wired remote with it - at least, mine didn't come with one. That'll run you about $60 extra. Then again, you're not paying an extra $100 for the Apple logo. A key difference between it and an iPod: the iPod requires you to keep copies of your mp3s on your computer. The Nomad does not. So I don't have to have a gargantuan hard drive in my laptop just to support my mp3 player. It's just so cool to have your 200+ CD collection all recorded onto your player (and it's still only about half full) and just keep it in shuffle mode! It's like my own radio station with no commercials and all my favorite music! HTH "Big Fred" Schoening Gear Slut Dallas, Texas, USA -----Original Message----- Greetings all, Any opinions on portable players? On music download services? ------------------------------ From: "Big Fred Schoening" Subject: RE: IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:31:10 -0500 Message-ID: <000501c48f1b$bc8e5530$1f8afea9 [at] PRODIGALBRAIN> In-Reply-To: Oops - forgot to mention that you'll need the wired remote to listen to radio stations and record memos, etc. I think it's worth it. Oh, and the player also comes with software that enables you to use it as a portable hard drive. Fred -----Original Message----- On the downside, you don't get the cool little wired remote with it - at least, mine didn't come with one. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001001c48f1d$10c2ec50$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:40:46 -0700 > > A key difference between it and an iPod: the iPod requires you to keep > copies of your mp3s on your computer. The Nomad does not. So I don't > have to have a gargantuan hard drive in my laptop just to support my mp3 > player. I've got a Rio Karma - 20 gig. Mine is about 2/3 full, with well over 3,500 tracks (somewhere around 250 albums). I still like to purchase CDs, as sort of a hard backup, but I do transfer them to the Rio. Like Fred's Zen, I don't have to keep the MP3s or WMAs - I can copy them to or from the Rio all I want (even on to another computer). Also like the Zen, I can use it as a hard drive (but I don't). One problem you might have with your current iTunes - I don't believe Steve Jobs will allow you to load those on to anything BUT an iPod. You'd have to burn the disc, then re-transcode. (Which I did once, when I was looking for a particular "My Fair Lady" album and found it on Napster.) -- Jon Ares Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts www.hevanet.com/acreative ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 01:55:21 -0400 Subject: Re: IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? References: From: "Nicholas Kuhl" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:24:49 -0500, Big Fred Schoening wrote: > I absolutely love my Creative Labs Nomad Zen. They come in a few > different versions, I believe. The software interface is easy, > intuitive, and versatile. I own the Nomad Zen NX 30GB player, and I'd have to disagree on that one. The software interface has trouble interpreting many of my ID tags, and I've had a few problems with it crashing at various points. As for the player itself, its controls are very clunky and slow, and it's a brick, especially compared to today's ipods. The IPod is a far better choice if you intend to swap songs a lot, or if you're planning on having it ride around in your pocket. The 30GB version is about $300 last I checked, and after having one for a year, I am very comfortable saying that I will buy the 40GB IPod when this dies, for only $100 more. The other option, if you don't require that much space, is to take a look at sony's new mp3 walkman, it's a 20GB unit that's smaller than the IPod, though very pricey ($400 I believe). There is also the new Zen Touch player from creative, 20GB for I think $300. And, if you require a lot of space, creative also has a 60GB player for $500. I would take a look at the websites of said companies, and read their tech specs on the sizes and such of the various players, it's mostly a matter of how much you're willing to spend, and how much portability you want. As for the music services, I have no experience with them, but to get around Apple's copy protection, you could probably re-code the files with a decent conversion program, and tell it to re-code them without the protection. On that front I recommend dBpowerAMP as the best conversion program I've ever used for ripping CDs and encoding files (www.dbpoweramp.com). hope it helps, Nick Kuhl ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 02:44:18 -0400 Subject: Re: IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? From: Herrick In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <2ED03FC2-FB19-11D8-A9C5-0003934521EC [at] hglightingdesign.com> The Ipod and Itunes can't be beat! (except they've licensed to HP so maybe they can) I've had 2 generations of Ipod the 5gb original and the 30gb version. I have 4,000 songs on mine and 10gb left over. it's great.. I wear it skiing and put it on random! One trail it's Carmina Burana the next it's Highway to Hell! Itunes one click purchasing is fast and easy and for only 99 cents. -H > Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 02:45:19 -0400 Subject: Re: IPOD/Other Players? On-line services? From: Herrick In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <52E62AE8-FB19-11D8-A9C5-0003934521EC [at] hglightingdesign.com> That is not true at all. I have no music on my computer it is all on my IPOD On Tuesday, Aug 31, 2004, at 01:24 America/New_York, Big Fred Schoening wrote: > iPod requires you to keep > copies of your mp3s on your computer. > Herrick Goldman Lighting Designer, NYC www.HGLightingDesign.com "To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #118 *****************************