Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.5) with PIPE id 4767097; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:15:49 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.5 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #170 Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:15:24 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.0-pre4 (2004-08-04) on prxy.net X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.5 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, DRUGS_PAIN,INFO_TLD,MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR,US_DOLLARS_2 autolearn=ham version=3.0.0-pre4 X-Spam-Level: X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4a3 For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #170 1. Re: Fire on Stage by "Stephen E. Rees" 2. Re: Fire on Stage by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 3. Re: A cautionary tale by Shawn Palmer 4. Re: Grants for public school theatre arts by Shawn Palmer 5. Re: Fire on Stage by Jacqueline Haney Kidwell 6. Re: Grants for public school theatre arts by Shawn Palmer 7. Masking the moon, old school stagecraft by "Dougherty, Jim" 8. Grants for non-profit theatre by Steve Larson 9. Re: Fire on Stage by "Bill Conner" 10. Re: Fire on Stage by "Bill Conner" 11. picco resin suppliers by "Immel,Patrick" 12. Re: picco resin suppliers by "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" 13. Re: Fire on Stage by "Paul H. Sullivan" 14. Re: picco resin suppliers by "Immel,Patrick" 15. Re: Fire on Stage by "Jon Ares" 16. Re: Fire on Stage by "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" 17. Re: Fire on Stage by gregg hillmar 18. Power Issue by "Jonathan Wills" 19. Re: picco resin suppliers by "Frank E. Merrill" 20. Re: Power Issue by "Frank E. Merrill" 21. Re: Fire on Stage by "LES LIND" 22. Re: Power Issue by "Steven Haworth" 23. Re: Power Issue by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 24. Re[2]: Power Issue by "Frank E. Merrill" 25. Re: Power Issue by Greg Persinger 26. Re: Power Issue by Greg Persinger 27. Re: Masking the moon, old school stagecraft by Mark O'Brien 28. Fire as Stage Illumination by "Owen Collins" 29. Re: Fire on Stage by Stephen Litterst 30. Re: Power Issue by Greg Persinger 31. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by IAEG [at] aol.com 32. Re: Power Issue by "Paul Sanow" 33. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by Pat Kight 34. Re: Power Issue by "Cyr, Dale" 35. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 36. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by IAEG [at] aol.com 37. Re: picco resin suppliers by "Alf Sauve" 38. Re: Fire on Stage by Mark Harvey 39. Re: Fire on Stage by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 40. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by Mike Katz 41. Re: Fire on Stage by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 42. Re: Select paint area on drop by david ward 43. Re: Fire on Stage by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 44. Re: Fire on Stage by Stephen Litterst 45. Re: Fire on Stage by Steve Larson 46. Re: Fire on stage by "Frank E. Merrill" 47. Re: Power Issue by Jerry Durand 48. Re: Amateur/professional/academic by Sunil Rajan 49. Re: Power Issue by Stephen Litterst 50. Fresnel Replacement Recommendations by "Hofmann, Christopher" 51. Re: Fire on Stage by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 52. Re: Fire on Stage by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 53. Re: Fire on Stage by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 54. Re: Fresnel Replacement Recommendations by "Michael S. Eddy" 55. Re: Power Issue by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 56. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 57. Re: Fire on Stage by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 58. Re: Fire on Stage by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 59. Re: Fire on Stage by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 60. Re: Fire on Stage by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 61. Re: Fire on Stage by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 62. Re: DMX back channel question by "Karl G. Ruling" 63. Re: Fire on Stage by Stephen Litterst 64. Re: DMX back channel question by Stephen Litterst 65. Re: Standard Voltages Sensor Dimmers by Mick Alderson 66. Re: DMX back channel question by Jerry Durand 67. C7 bulb=candelabra base? by "Jon Ares" 68. Re: Standard Voltages Sensor Dimmers by Jerry Durand 69. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by MissWisc [at] aol.com 70. Advice from "Mom" Re: Amateur/professional/academic by MissWisc [at] aol.com 71. Re: Fire on Stage by Richard Niederberg 72. Re: Fire as Stage Illumination by Richard Niederberg *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: <4177ACEF.1070301 [at] fredonia.edu> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:34:55 -0400 From: "Stephen E. Rees" Subject: Re: Fire on Stage References: Be it 2004 or not, there are still theatres, clubs, hotels, convention centers and restaurants who don't care a fig for life safety codes or try to avoid such issues for whatever reasons - mostly economic I suspect. Witness The Station (club) fire in Rhode Island. 100+ deaths suggest that we're little better off now than in the '50s, the '40s, the 1800's or the 1600s. Steve Rees, TD SUNY-Fredonia FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote:[snipped] > It's now 2004. > > Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:50:41 -0400 Message-ID: <000e01c4b76c$9310f6d0$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Be it 2004 or not, there are still theatres, clubs, hotels, > convention > centers and restaurants ...And, alas, performers.... > who don't care a fig for life safety codes or > try to avoid such issues for whatever reasons ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4177B473.3060104 [at] northnet.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:06:59 -0500 From: Shawn Palmer Subject: Re: A cautionary tale References: In-Reply-To: > One of the users of a $200 million + performing arts center > (that recently opened down the street from us) borrowed one > of our A frame ladders because this new facility doesn't have > enough to do basic production. Needless to say, we are > having a lot of fun with this. > On the down side of this. So that the floor in the performance > space didn't get scratched, they put towels under the legs > which would also let them slide it along the floor. Anyone care > to speculate what happened next? With someone 18' in the air, > the ladder spotter walked away, the worker leaned out too far on > the ladder and it tipped over. She hung onto the pipe as long as > she could before falling to the deck and chipping a tooth and slicing > open her lip. > Sigh,,,, > Fred Fisher > (hope to see some of you in Lost Wages this weekend) Fred, Maybe after spending 200 million not only could they not afford an A frame but they also could not afford to hire a person with an OUNCE of common sense. Shawn Palmer Neenah, WI USA ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4177B5C0.9010604 [at] northnet.net> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:12:32 -0500 From: Shawn Palmer Subject: Re: Grants for public school theatre arts References:

In-Reply-To: > I'm interested in this thread as well. So often, grants and other > funding sources aren't interested in giving funds for capital expenses. > This is something I've been dealing with for some time. The funding > sources (groups) that have given a little here and a little there, are > more interested in buying us 'something' (so they can brag) but they > balk when we say what we really need is stuff to get repaired or > replaced, or we need production supplies. Not too glamourous. Or, > funding groups and foundations are interested in funding some sort of > program - such as an outreach aspect of a specific show. > > -- Jon Ares I can also say I was trained to look at corporate giving as a more feasible way to get money than grants. Here's another trick that has worked VERY well for us: tie into a company's advertising budgets. The ad budgets are all bigger than the corporate giving budgets. I say "for 'x$' your ad budget sponsors this show. You get prominent mention on all posters, prominent mention in all radio spots, comp tix for your best customers, etc." The money for this advertising, of course, is the company's advertising money, but then the balance goes to production expenses (with the company's full knowledge.) Hardly rocket science or new information, but done right it works well. Shawn Palmer Neenah, WI USA ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:45:44 -0400 Subject: Masking the moon, old school stagecraft From: "Dougherty, Jim" Message-ID: For masking the moon on the drop, it might work to use wax over the area you don't want the paint to enter. Melt paraffin (sealing wax) over a double boiler, or similarly safe method, and brush and rub it into the area you want to protect. You don't need a lot of wax, just enough to waterproof the fibers. It will also change the translucency of the muslin some, which might help the light transmission through it when it's a moon. Excess wax can be removed with brown kraft paper and an iron - put the paper over the moon and iron it. If you do this and it works, let us know - I've always been curious. By using wax, it will dry and harden without bleeding too far out of the moon area. I've seen Barbour coats reconditioned in this way. There was a thread a few days ago about a theater filled with older equipment and tools, and the ceiling plate came out a favorite for retaining its usefulness assuming it was made strongly enough. I'd like to put in another vote, for the Yankee screwdriver, as a quick and handy tool. They make adaptors for them now that allow you to use common hex bits and include a magnet, too, so they can share bits with cordless drills. Batteries never run out and they can fit into tight spaces. Ditto for the Yankee version of the drill. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:46:47 -0400 Subject: Grants for non-profit theatre From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: We just completed a complete scenic rebuild for our annual production of A Christmas Carol. Blue Cross-Blue Shield signed on as corporate sponsor of the new back drops to the tune of $125,000. The new set was designed by Mark Pirolo at North Carolina School of the Arts. The set includes a huge London Bridge which was beautifully built at NCSA. The other hard scenery/wagons I built over a two month period. The whole show was painted at NCSA. We are delighted with their work. Kudos also to Howard Jones and Dennis Booth for overseeing the painting and construction at NCSA. We're also working with another corporate sponsor to underwrite our entire educational outreach program. Included will be some new equipment. We've also got a theatre camp for high school students and a production of Shakespearean scenes. Underwriters will provide enough money to take the entire cast, crew and staff to London for a week. We have a full-time development director and the outgoing president of our board is a professional grant writer. He doesn't write our grants, but provides professional advice. The local professional ballet company recently received a million dollar grant from the local power company to underwrite a new production of The Nutcracker. Steve on 10/21/04 9:31 AM, Shawn Palmer at shawnp [at] northnet.net wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > >> I'm interested in this thread as well. So often, grants and other >> funding sources aren't interested in giving funds for capital expenses. >> This is something I've been dealing with for some time. The funding >> sources (groups) that have given a little here and a little there, are >> more interested in buying us 'something' (so they can brag) but they >> balk when we say what we really need is stuff to get repaired or >> replaced, or we need production supplies. Not too glamourous. Or, >> funding groups and foundations are interested in funding some sort of >> program - such as an outreach aspect of a specific show. >> >> -- Jon Ares > > I can also say I was trained to look at corporate giving as a more > feasible way to get money than grants. > > Here's another trick that has worked VERY well for us: tie into a > company's advertising budgets. The ad budgets are all bigger than the > corporate giving budgets. I say "for 'x$' your ad budget sponsors this > show. You get prominent mention on all posters, prominent mention in all > radio spots, comp tix for your best customers, etc." The money for this > advertising, of course, is the company's advertising money, but then the > balance goes to production expenses (with the company's full knowledge.) > > Hardly rocket science or new information, but done right it works well. > > Shawn Palmer > Neenah, WI > USA > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <005501c4b775$42f69750$4b01010a [at] schulershook.net> From: "Bill Conner" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:52:51 -0500 Of course we can blame it on Frank. After all, the scenery in the Iroquois Theatre at the time it burned was from Great Brittan - oil paint on linen. It's clearly all his fault. From the point of view of developing regulations (codes) and not to mix this with the academic vs. professional vs. amateur thread, it's difficult to permit effects or anything that can be a danger with the provision it be done safely. For instance, I was steadfast against removing the prohibition of pyro from the Life Safety Code but that was done in the 1994 edition with a lot of lobbying by the pyrotechnic manufacturers (at least one of whom supplied pyro to the Great White and was listed as a defendant in the Station disaster). I was against it because once it's allowed in "professional" theatre - where there are the resources to take proper precautions - the "non-professional" theatres will imitate it. If it is permitted as of right by the codes, there will be less scrutiny and oversight then if it is prohibited and an exception or waiver is required. For example, if an NBA franchise wants to use pyro with player introductions, with all their money they could get a variance after submitting a reasonable plan for safety and having it approved by authorities. When podunk high school sees pyro is permitted by the code, they probably don't even have the funds to buy the regs or standards that are a condition of using pyro and accidents will happen. There are also societal differences and attitudes towards safety that are harder to explain. Regards, Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <005901c4b777$afa9d270$4b01010a [at] schulershook.net> From: "Bill Conner" Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:10:14 -0500 Dale wrote: "Now the Station Nightclub fire just last year ( Where the culprits were poorly marked fire escapes and flammable materials stapled to the walls. )" I think this misses the mark by not noting that the pyro and poor procedures and very poor judgment in it's use by the "entertainment technicians" were the primary failure. Many other things contributed but without the reckless use of pyro, there would have been no news. Instead 100 dead. Likewise management was poor or non-existent. Certainly the flammable foam on the walls contributed and could have been ignited by other causes though it would take some work and coordination to ignite it in three separate places simultaneously. Since everyone was cued up at the doors, I'm not sure how much marking of egress contributed to the problem. Similarly, to those that claim that "panic" contributed to the death tool - I'm not sure what the occupants could have done differently that would have made a difference. They were, after all, at the doors and trying to get out. There were standards and are standards for the use of pyro but in the end, those people responsible for proper use and application of the standards didn't hold up their end of the bargain. Regards, Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <147CF8DFB9C5D41187300001FA7EE39011EDC68C [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu> From: "Immel,Patrick" Subject: picco resin suppliers Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:16:01 -0500 Hello all, I am looking for a supplier / vendor of something called "picco resin" It is a product that can be used for making reusable break away glass. Norcostco used to sell it but after looking on their website I didn't see it. Also, yesterday I didn't recieve any messages from this list and I have come to find out that my server was bouncing messages. I have fixed that problem. So...if anybody replied (directly to the list serve) to my posting about my USITT session...I didn't recieve it and if you are still interested to email me directly! Thanks, Patrick Immel Northwest Missouri State University ------------------------------ Message-ID: <886EF25AF8BEF64EB89A820EF84064FF099D5027 [at] UCMAIL4> From: "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" Subject: RE: picco resin suppliers Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:23:42 -0400 Did a google search for "picco resin" (in quotes) and got too many listing to try to copy here. Give it a shot. Steve Waxler Technical Director College Conservatory of Music University of Cincinnati -----Original Message----- From: Immel,Patrick [mailto:PIMMEL [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 10:16 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: picco resin suppliers For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Hello all, I am looking for a supplier / vendor of something called "picco resin" It is a product that can be used for making reusable break away glass. Norcostco used to sell it but after looking on their website I didn't see it. Also, yesterday I didn't recieve any messages from this list and I have come to find out that my server was bouncing messages. I have fixed that problem. So...if anybody replied (directly to the list serve) to my posting about my USITT session...I didn't recieve it and if you are still interested to email me directly! Thanks, Patrick Immel Northwest Missouri State University ------------------------------ Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.0.20041021101434.00b53ef0 [at] pop.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:28:46 -0400 From: "Paul H. Sullivan" Subject: Re: Fire on Stage In-Reply-To: I did this show a few years ago and had a student come up with a quick and easy solution. Plywood filler a few inches below the rim, then about 6 strings of the blinky(Technical term) red and orange Christmas tree lights mixed and layed out on the surface. They generate a surprisingly good flame effect on hands , faces, etc. that are held over the barrel. As for open flame NFPA 101, adopted by virtually every community and state as the base code states in Reg 9-3.2.5, OPEN FLAME DEVISES- No open flame devices shall be used in any public assembly occupancy. Despite the fact it's 'Art' the regulations are quite clear. And as for the argument that it has been done before, some people stick sea shells into their scrotums to look more masculine, it doesn't mean it's a good idea Good luck. At 07:32 AM 10/20/2004 -0700, you wrote: >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >I have a director wanting to start a fire in a small trashcan on stage; this >is for the play Getting Out by Marsha Norman. I'm thinking this is not a >great idea. > >Would anyone out there who has faced this question before be willing to >share some advice? > >Thanks! Paul H. Sullivan Production Manager Times Union Center for the Performing Arts Jacksonville FL 32202 (904) 633-6192 (904) 633-6190 fax ------------------------------ Message-ID: <147CF8DFB9C5D41187300001FA7EE39011EDC68E [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu> From: "Immel,Patrick" Subject: RE: picco resin suppliers Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:30:30 -0500 Steve, Thats what I originally did. All I found were more industrial suppliers..selling 50 pound bags! I am looking for something a little smaller! Pat -----Original Message----- From: Waxler, Steve (waxlers) To: Stagecraft Sent: 10/21/2004 9:23 AM Subject: Re: picco resin suppliers For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Did a google search for "picco resin" (in quotes) and got too many listing to try to copy here. Give it a shot. Steve Waxler Technical Director College Conservatory of Music University of Cincinnati -----Original Message----- From: Immel,Patrick [mailto:PIMMEL [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu] Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 10:16 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: picco resin suppliers For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Hello all, I am looking for a supplier / vendor of something called "picco resin" It is a product that can be used for making reusable break away glass. Norcostco used to sell it but after looking on their website I didn't see it. Also, yesterday I didn't recieve any messages from this list and I have come to find out that my server was bouncing messages. I have fixed that problem. So...if anybody replied (directly to the list serve) to my posting about my USITT session...I didn't recieve it and if you are still interested to email me directly! Thanks, Patrick Immel Northwest Missouri State University ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001f01c4b77b$4b6f1cd0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 07:36:04 -0700 Where do you get these sea shells? ;) -- Jon > Despite the fact it's 'Art' the regulations are quite clear. And as for > the argument that it has been done before, some people stick sea shells > into their scrotums to look more masculine, it doesn't mean it's a good > idea > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <886EF25AF8BEF64EB89A820EF84064FF099D5048 [at] UCMAIL4> From: "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:37:46 -0400 That is definitely more information than I needed. Steve Waxler Technical Director College Conservatory of Music University of Cincinnati And as for the argument that it has been done before, some people stick sea shells into their scrotums to look more masculine, it doesn't mean it's a good idea Good luck. ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: From: gregg hillmar Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:39:21 -0400 Did a "google search" and ... ah never mind. g. _____________________ gregg hillmar scenic & lighting design portfolio & life as we know it: http://www.hillmardesign.com "Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt. Dance like no one's watching." Satchel Paige On Oct 21, 2004, at 10:36 AM, Jon Ares wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Where do you get these sea shells? > > ;) > > -- Jon > > >> Despite the fact it's 'Art' the regulations are quite clear. And as >> for the argument that it has been done before, some people stick sea >> shells into their scrotums to look more masculine, it doesn't mean >> it's a good idea >> > ------------------------------ Message-Id: <200410211502.i9LF2MsS011396 [at] smtp-mtc03.proxy.aol.com> From: "Jonathan Wills" Cc: Show-Power [at] yahoogroups.com Subject: Power Issue Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:02:22 -0400 Organization: Jonathan Wills Hello all, I have an issue that I think I know how to solve but figure I will = bounce of people more knowledgeable then me.=20 The dimmer system was installed 12 years ago. It is a Strand CD80 Rack = (2 racks=97192 plug ins), 1 year ago it was updated to a Johnston Systems = brain.=20 I have a dimmer system at a school that keeps =93fusing=94 the neutrals = of cable together. 5 Pigtails have had to be replaced because the female and male have melted together. It is usually the neutral that melts. I think the entire rack needs to have the feeder lines reset in the breaker box, but = I am looking for more opinions. We were having problems with it before the brain was changed, limited only had 1 plug melt, in the last 15 months = have had 4 more melt. I had a call from them the other day and a dimmer module was =93fused=94 = in place. We got the module out and had to turn off the rack to get the hot connector out of the socket. The dimmer module melted around the hot connector and allowed the prong to be removed. If any on is interested I do have some pictures of the dimmer module and = a couple of the connectors. Thank you, Jonathan Wills Wills Lighting and Stage www.WillsLighting.com 423.432.8082 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.771 / Virus Database: 518 - Release Date: 9/28/2004 =20 ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:03:40 -0500 From: "Frank E. Merrill" Message-ID: <14410466270.20041021100340 [at] TCON.net> Subject: Re: picco resin suppliers In-Reply-To: References: Howdy! Thursday, October 21, 2004, Patrick Immel wrote: IP> I am looking for..."picco resin"...used for making reusable break IP> away glass. I usually have a bag of it. I looked on the shelf and have about a pound or two. It runs $1.25 per ounce or $17.50 per pound. Best regards, Frank E. Merrill MERRILL STAGE EQUIPMENT Eastablished 1946 Indianapolis 317: 255 4666 Running The Bat! Natural e-mail system v3.0 mailto:Lamplighter [at] TCON.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:10:54 -0500 From: "Frank E. Merrill" Message-ID: <279718299.20041021101054 [at] TCON.net> Subject: Re: Power Issue In-Reply-To: References: Howdy! Thursday, October 21, 2004, Jonathan Wills wrote: JW> I have a dimmer system at a school that keeps �fusing� the JW> neutrals of cable together. I'd be willing to bet a Frisco Melt and chocolate shake that they didn't run separate neutrals when they wired up the place (because hte contract went to the lowest bidder) and when the current goes up all on one phase it whacks the bejeebers outta the neutral. I'd also predict that the split pins that permit the plug-in connections have gotten loose and relatively corroded over the years, resulting in high resistance which in turn produces high heat. Best regards, Frank E. Merrill MERRILL STAGE EQUIPMENT Eastablished 1946 Indianapolis 317: 255 4666 Running The Bat! Natural e-mail system v3.0 mailto:Lamplighter [at] TCON.net ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:11:36 -0400 From: "LES LIND" Subject: Re: Fire on Stage ..(scratching head) how on earth do you....no, I don't want to know. argument that it has been done before, some people stick sea shells into their scrotums to look more masculine, it doesn't mean it's a good idea Les Lind, TD NHS Dramatics Northeastern High School Manchester, PA ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Power Issue Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:12:47 -0500 Message-ID: <721DC9EE550F834A92EC08BDC332B0EE016082D3 [at] trader.river.idm.com> From: "Steven Haworth" Ouch! Melted neutrals... that's not good. My first thought would be that phase use is unbalanced (more power being = drawn from one phase than from the others), causing an unexpected, heavy = current to flow in the neutral. First step, I'd say, is to have an electrician or Elec Eng monitor the = load on each phase going into the rack, and see if they're unbalanced. = There's other causes for this, but I'd say start here. - Steven (sjh [at] idm.com) --------------------------- http://www.stagelights.info ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Power Issue Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:17:08 -0400 Message-ID: <002201c4b781$085970c0$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > I'd be willing to bet a Frisco Melt and chocolate shake that > they didn't run separate neutrals when they wired up the > place (because hte contract went to the lowest bidder) If the specs were properly written (and if no fraud was involved), it doesn't matter if the contract went to the lowest bidder. "Separate neutrals" should have been in the electrical specification. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:29:15 -0500 From: "Frank E. Merrill" Message-ID: <1128249885.20041021102915 [at] TCON.net> Subject: Re[2]: Power Issue In-Reply-To: References:

Howdy! Thursday, October 21, 2004, Jeff Salzburg wrote concerning my comment about common neutrals: JES> If the specs were properly written..."Separate neutrals" should JES> have been in the electrical specification. No question about that, but in this context "If" is a big word. Inasmuch Mr. Immel's fusing seems to be on the neutral only it points a glaring finger toward a common neutral problem. If the problem were seen among the neutral AND line side connections I'd lean more toward heating due to poor electrical contact in the split pin connectors. Best regards, Frank E. Merrill MERRILL STAGE EQUIPMENT Eastablished 1946 Indianapolis 317: 255 4666 Running The Bat! Natural e-mail system v3.0 mailto:Lamplighter [at] TCON.net ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:34:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Power Issue From: Greg Persinger Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Jonathan, Your pigtails are melting because the contacts are not making a good connection and arcing. Usually in a stage pin connector it is because the pins are too loose. The fix for this is to get a pin spreader (or carefully use a screwdriver or knife) and open up the pins a bit wider for a tighter fit. One other thing that could cause this is the installer might not have gotten the screws tight in the stagepin block or they might have come loose from use over the years expanding and contracting. There is an older brand of stage pin connector that was terrible about arcing out (I can't remember the brand at the moment) but maybe you have these in your install. Remember once a plug begins to arc BOTH male and female plugs are trashed and need to be replaced to eliminate the problem. As for the dimmer modules, same thing applies. If the modules are not set correctly into the rack they begin to arc and once the arcing starts they melt the plugs on the back of the module, which then need to be replaced. I would go through the rack and pull every module and reseat them to ensure that they have a tight connection. Although it wouldn't hurt to have all of the feeder wires torqued again, I highly doubt it is a dropped neutral or your rig would have smoked or at least blown all of your lamps by now. If you were burning through neutral wires in the raceway that would be a different problem, but by your description it sounds to only be the neutral pin on the stagepin block. This is probably more by chance than an electrical problem. I would be interested in your pictures. You can send them to me at the email address below. Good luck. Greg Persinger Vivid Illumination Greg [at] Vividillumination.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:38:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Power Issue From: Greg Persinger Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Hello, Another question that hasn't been asked is what kind of loads were on these connectors? Greg Persinger Vivid Illumination Greg [at] Vividillumination.com ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <151553CD-2377-11D9-AF27-000393897332 [at] email.arizona.edu> Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien) From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: Masking the moon, old school stagecraft Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 08:37:14 -0700 Hey. I did not say I did not use the stuff! Funny you should mention that. Several folks have contacted me off list looking for the Yankee drill & screwdriver. I had to decline, because I learned on them and I use them. Like a hand impact driver, they push the screw in, whilst it turns. The clout nails & cinch plate, however, will probably remain a conversation piece. The glue pots & the rabbit glue, will probably remain stored. On Oct 21, 2004, at 6:45 AM, Dougherty, Jim wrote: > There was a thread a few days ago about a theater filled with older > equipment and tools, and the ceiling plate came out a favorite for > retaining > its usefulness assuming it was made strongly enough. I'd like to put > in > another vote, for the Yankee screwdriver, as a quick and handy tool. > They > make adaptors for them now that allow you to use common hex bits and > include > a magnet, too, so they can share bits with cordless drills. Batteries > never > run out and they can fit into tight spaces. Ditto for the Yankee > version of > the drill. > Mark O'Brien Opera Technical Director University of Arizona, School of Music Tucson, AZ 520/621-7025 520/591-1803 Mobile ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:40:50 -0400 From: "Owen Collins" Subject: Fire as Stage Illumination The recent thread about fire onstage brings up an Issue I need to deal with. I am on an advisory committee for a Theatre company. They have a reconstruction of Shakespeare's Blackfriars Playhouse. They produce ther plays as they think Shakepseare would have done, no set changes, lights up all the time, etc. See it at: http://www.ishakespeare.com/blackfriars/ In their effort to be "accurate" they are painting the woodwork as it would have in the 1600's. and They asked me to join this committe to talk to them about switching to replacing all the lighting with candles. Right now it is lit with electric candleabras and other instruments. I know that this is a BAD idea.I know they haven't really looked at the fire codes in the city. I don't think candles will be as bright enough for modern audineces to view a play. i think they amount need to have enough light will add to heat of the room. What I am interested in finding is some information to see if i am right and backup my assumptions. Where can I look to compare lumen and heat output of lighting instruments to candles(god i feel funny asking that) This is what you get when English professors start doing theatre. thanks, Owen Collins ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:44:28 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Message-id: <4177D95C.E4EE6DDD [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: Bill Conner wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > Since everyone was cued up at the doors, I'm not sure how much marking of > egress contributed to the problem. Similarly, to those that claim that > "panic" contributed to the death tool - I'm not sure what the occupants > could have done differently that would have made a difference. They were, > after all, at the doors and trying to get out. Actually, everyone was queued up at the "front" doors. There were several fire exits closer to the stage that were poorly labeled and partially obstructed that could have saved dozens of lives. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:46:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Power Issue From: Greg Persinger Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Frank, I agree that common neutrals are a no no and that it is very easy for a common neutral to be overloaded. What I am a little unclear on is why it would have such an effect on the connectors. I have seen it burn the neutral wires in half but it never effected the plugs. I'm not disagreeing just trying to get my head around this one. Greg Persinger Vivid Illumination Greg [at] Vividillumination.com ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <29.644bafdb.2ea933e9 [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:46:49 EDT Subject: Re: Fire as Stage Illumination In a message dated 10/21/04 11:41:52 AM, collinso [at] wlu.edu writes: << The recent thread about fire onstage brings up an Issue I need to deal with. I am on an advisory committee for a Theatre company. They have a reconstruction of Shakespeare's Blackfriars Playhouse. They produce ther plays as they think Shakepseare would have done, no set changes, lights up all the time, etc. See it at: http://www.ishakespeare.com/blackfriars/ In their effort to be "accurate" they are painting the woodwork as it would have in the 1600's. and They asked me to join this committe to talk to them about switching to replacing all the lighting with candles. Right now it is lit with electric candleabras and other instruments. I know that this is a BAD idea.I know they haven't really looked at the fire codes in the city. I don't think candles will be as bright enough for modern audineces to view a play. i think they amount need to have enough light will add to heat of the room. What I am interested in finding is some information to see if i am right and backup my assumptions. Where can I look to compare lumen and heat output of lighting instruments to candles(god i feel funny asking that) >> I am vaguely familiar with your facility ( never actually been there ) and have read about it, I was under the impression that the lighting in your house was on a dimmer system that simulated the dying light of real Candelabras, , , bright at the beginning of the act, , and gradually dimmer as the act progressed, , then repeated for the next act ( as the candles would be replaced at intermission ) is that correct? or some facsimilie there of ? very best, Keith Arsenault President IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Power Issue Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:58:37 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Paul Sanow" > As for the dimmer modules, same thing applies. If the modules=20 > are not set > correctly into the rack they begin to arc and once the arcing=20 > starts they > melt the plugs on the back of the module, which then need to=20 > be replaced. On the dimmer module fusing problem I would suggest it could also be = that the connection of the load wire (top two pin receptacles of module = block for 2x2.4kw) need to be tightened. If the burn is on the lower = pin, that is the factory wire from the buss bars. Make sure you shut = down power before getting in there. Use a hex wrench to tighten the set = screw. I suggest that all load and power receptacles be checked at the = back blocks. Unfortunately one can't visually check to see that the = electrical contractor has properly stripped and landed the load wires. = I once found that an EC had not stripped the wire, but the screw broke = through the insulation made enough contact to light a load, and = eventually the block overheated. You can usually tell if the problem is at the wire connection in back = block or the module. The pins are so heavy it is rare that the module = works loose, but it wouldn't be unheard of. Some racks vibrate more = than others based on the quality of installation and mounting. I = usually recommend owners check that modules are seated during periodic = maintenance. Most, of course forget. Feel free to slam the CD80 module = into place- they are bulletproof. Remember there are no neutral connections at a CD80 dimmer module. = Count your neutrals across the neutral buss (top of the rack). Neutral = connections should equal number of circuits. If you have less neutrals = you likely have common (shared) neutrals. This, as has been mentioned, = is bad. Amen on the pin splitting. Paul *********************************************************** Paul Sanow psanow [at] vls.com Technical Sales www.vincentlighting.com Vincent Lighting Systems 1420 Jamike Ln. #2 Erlanger, KY 41018 (859) 525-2000 x211 FAX (859) 525-2050 *********************************************************** ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4177E2B8.3040101 [at] peak.org> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:24:24 -0700 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: Fire as Stage Illumination References: In-Reply-To: Owen Collins wrote: > The recent thread about fire onstage brings up an Issue I need to deal > with. > I am on an advisory committee for a Theatre company. They have a > reconstruction of Shakespeare's Blackfriars Playhouse. They produce > ther plays as they think Shakepseare would have done, no set changes, > lights up all the time, etc. > See it at: > http://www.ishakespeare.com/blackfriars/ > > In their effort to be "accurate" they are painting the woodwork as it > would have in the 1600's. and They asked me to join this committe to > talk to them about switching to replacing all the lighting with candles. > Right now it is lit with electric candleabras and other instruments. I > know that this is a BAD idea. Well, if they're striving for historical authenticity, then having the theater burn down some night is certainly in keeping with 17th century theater tradition. -- Pat Kight (Yes, I know Blackfriars didn't burn, but the Globe, among others, did ...) kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Power Issue Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:49:20 -0700 Message-ID: <407DF7D68DD30440B5CEB70ED234D1CF0316E21C [at] excuswa100.americas.unity> From: "Cyr, Dale" -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jonathan Wills I have a dimmer system at a school that keeps "fusing" the neutrals of cable together. 5 Pigtails have had to be replaced because the female and male have melted together. It is usually the neutral that melts. I think the entire rack needs to have the feeder lines reset in the breaker box,=20 hhhmmm.... I'm reading this differantly than the other posters... when you say "tails", it makes me think of the feed from=20 the house power disconnect to the rack. your next statement about having the "...feeder lines reset..." seems to confirm this. perhaps a little clarification is in order... johnathan: which neutrals, exactly, are you referring to? (I'm thinking harmonics on the neutral feeder cable is causing an over-current condition). dale cyr Training Supervisor IATSE Local 93 Spokane, WA ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Fire as Stage Illumination Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:57:23 -0400 Message-ID: <002801c4b78f$09b0bb00$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Well, if they're striving for historical authenticity, then > having the > theater burn down some night is certainly in keeping with > 17th century > theater tradition. They could also try having 90% of their audience die of plague. ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:00:39 EDT Subject: Re: Fire as Stage Illumination In a message dated 10/21/04 12:58:23 PM, stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes: << > Well, if they're striving for historical authenticity, then > having the > theater burn down some night is certainly in keeping with > 17th century > theater tradition. They could also try having 90% of their audience die of plague. >> how about audiences that stand throughout the performance? and have comedies or dance numbers during intermission? talk back to the actors ? in dramas as well as comedies , , , very best, Keith Arsenault ------------------------------ Message-ID: <008401c4b792$7aa88830$0600a8c0 [at] alf> From: "Alf Sauve" References: Subject: Re: picco resin suppliers Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:21:09 -0400 Page 6 of Norcostco's 2005-2006 catalog. Clear Brittle Polymer. Q610. $19.15/Lb. I made a breakaway light fixture. Actor, going berserk, would hit it with a golf club. The actual light was tucked safely, up in the fixture. Alas, the director thought it was too much work-----for the actor, and didn't want the chards all over the set. But it was a good prototype. Alf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Immel,Patrick" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 10:16 AM Subject: picco resin suppliers > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Hello all, > > I am looking for a supplier / vendor of something called "picco resin" It > is a product that can be used for making reusable break away glass. > Norcostco used to sell it but after looking on their website I didn't see > it. > > Also, yesterday I didn't recieve any messages from this list and I have > come > to find out that my server was bouncing messages. I have fixed that > problem. So...if anybody replied (directly to the list serve) to my > posting > about my USITT session...I didn't recieve it and if you are still > interested > to email me directly! > > Thanks, > > Patrick Immel > Northwest Missouri State University ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 12:20:36 -0500 From: Mark Harvey Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Message-ID: <972132.3307350036 [at] umd52-36.d.umn.edu> In-Reply-To: I put together a web site with several options concerning how fire can be recreated on stage. You can find it at When we produced Getting Out, the FS-2 flourescent starter technique worked well for us. ____________________________________ Mark Harvey Associate Professor, Lighting and Sound Design University of Minnesota Duluth www.d.umn.edu/~mharvey > > I have a director wanting to start a fire in a small trashcan on stage; > this is for the play Getting Out by Marsha Norman. I'm thinking this is > not a great idea. > > Would anyone out there who has faced this question before be willing to > share some advice? ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <78.63ec6b9a.2ea94f3c [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:43:24 EDT Subject: Re: Fire on Stage In a message dated 21/10/04 06:02:47 GMT Daylight Time, dale [at] cybercom.net writes: > Here in the Boston area, with the Coconut Grove nightclub fire back in the > forties. ( The culprits were a combination of locked and unmarked fire > escapes, and flammable decorations tacked to the walls and ceiling. ) Now > the Station Nightclub fire just last year ( Where the culprits were poorly > marked fire escapes and flammable materials stapled to the walls. ) less > than a hundred miles away. Anything involving a live fire on stage would > be looked upon with grave disapproval by the fire marshals and the > insurance companies. > Boston has a very strict fire code, and the fire marshals have the > authority to close the show, and are not at all reluctant to do so. I can understand that. But, at the same time, I must point out that both the Coconut Grove and the Station were nightclubs. A competently run theatre is a different environment. In the UK, at least, a theatre has to conform to stringent rules about audience exits, emergency and exit lighting, and fireproof barriers and fire and smoke proof doors. That's just in its structure. Rules is perhaps a wrong word, since most of them are advisory, and have no legal force. This includes the electrical installation regulations. But he would be a bold man who tried to prove that his failure to observe them was sensible. Actually, insurers create the strongest constraints. Since they have to pay the bill, this is also understandable. In Europe, we seem to have lost few theatres to fires. Drottningholm, in Sweden, burned down in 1762, and was rebuilt as it now stands, by 1768. Covent Garden, in London, was twice destroyed in the 19th Century. La Fenice in Venice was destroyed during its refurbishment, and La Licieu, in Barcelona, went up, too. Casualties, nil. All these events are history. This is for learning from, and I hope we have. Boston Fire Department seems not to have. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:45:42 -0400 From: Mike Katz Subject: Re: Fire as Stage Illumination Cc: collinso [at] wlu.edu (Owen Collins) The Professors in their search for accuracy failed to have an open roof, or other means of daylighting such as big windows, and probably think that they can have a "accurate" performance at night. Public entertainment of Shakespeare's day was held during the day. IIRC Fire was not used as illumination for public (as opposed to small court entertainments) until Gas light was perfected, candles would not be realistic (or safe) under any circumstances. Mike At 11:40 AM -0400 10/21/04, Owen Collins wrote: >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >The recent thread about fire onstage brings up an Issue I need to deal >with. >I am on an advisory committee for a Theatre company. They have a >reconstruction of Shakespeare's Blackfriars Playhouse. They produce >ther plays as they think Shakepseare would have done, no set changes, >lights up all the time, etc. >See it at: >http://www.ishakespeare.com/blackfriars/ > >In their effort to be "accurate" they are painting the woodwork as it >would have in the 1600's. and They asked me to join this committe to >talk to them about switching to replacing all the lighting with candles. >Right now it is lit with electric candleabras and other instruments. I >know that this is a BAD idea.I know they haven't really looked at the >fire codes in the city. I don't think candles will be as bright enough >for modern audineces to view a play. i think they amount need to have >enough light will add to heat of the room. What I am interested in >finding is some information to see if i am right and backup my >assumptions. Where can I look to compare lumen and heat output of >lighting instruments to candles(god i feel funny asking that) > > >This is what you get when English professors start doing theatre. > > >thanks, > >Owen Collins -- Mike Katz Technical Director MIT Theater Arts Rinaldi Tile Building 77 Mass Ave E33-101 Cambridge MA 02139 617.253.0824 mkatz [at] mit.edu "Lunacy Abounds" ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1e4.2d8484ac.2ea95167 [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:52:39 EDT Subject: Re: Fire on Stage In a message dated 21/10/04 15:09:40 GMT Daylight Time, bill-conner [at] att.net writes: > > There were standards and are standards for the use of pyro but in the end, > those people responsible for proper use and application of the standards > didn't hold up their end of the bargain. > > Regards, Bill It's the old personal responsibility thread again, really. "I do something stupid, I pay the price". Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:59:31 -0700 From: david ward Subject: Re: Select paint area on drop Message-id: <000701c4b797$b72ed160$835b1e0a [at] Cerritos.edu> Hi There, Delurking momentarily to comment on painting translucent drops. I have done this in the past by priming the muslin first with clear flat emulsion. This will seal the muslin completely. When I did this last, the effect was to have a paint textured wall surface on the audience side with tree silhouettes painted on the back side that would appear when backlit. When the drop is primed this way there is no problem cutting clean crisp lines that do not bleed. Masking the areas that need to be translucent is only necessary to avoid the errant drop or run of paint or to cut very straight lines. The only thing to be careful of is making sure that the muslin is thoroughly impregnated with the emulsion, two lightly thinned coats are best, no dry brushing or dry rolling allowed. David L. Ward Designer/TD Cerritos College CA ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:22:07 -0400 Message-ID: <002b01c4b79a$dfa7a8d0$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > It's the old personal responsibility thread again, really. "I > do something > stupid, I pay the price". Unfortunately, sometimes when we do something stupid, 100 audience members pay the price. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:02:46 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Message-id: <417807D6.31A207D6 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > In Europe, we seem to have lost few theatres to fires. Drottningholm, in > Sweden, burned down in 1762, and was rebuilt as it now stands, by 1768. Covent > Garden, in London, was twice destroyed in the 19th Century. La Fenice in Venice > was destroyed during its refurbishment, and La Licieu, in Barcelona, went up, > too. Casualties, nil. Richmond Theatre, Richmond, VA. 1811. 72 Lives lost, including the governor and (rumor has it) Edgar Allen Poe's mother. The aforementioned Iroquois. Brooklyn Theatre Fire, 1876. 200+ lives lost. The Exeter Theatre (in Devon) burned down twice with no casualties, only to spoil its record in 1887 when the Theatre Royal burned down taking 186 patrons with it. 1881, the Ring Theatre in Vienna. 450-600 lost. 1862. The Bath Theatre. no casualties. And that's just from a quick Google. Theatre Fires were (and still are) a very real and present danger. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:08:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Fire on Stage From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Perhaps not in the same category as some of these theatres, The Mule Barn Theatre in Tarkio, Mo burned down in the 1980's. After strike of a show, the costumer placed some clothes in a clothes dryer without checking the lint filter. The lint overheated, caught fire and burned the theatre to the ground. The theatre was a converted Mule Barn dating from 1880. All the wood in the theatre was native walnut from the Tarkio area. The theatre was in the hay loft; dressing rooms, green room, museum, costume shop, and box office were on the 2nd floor; the scenery/prop storage was in the ground floor, where the stables had once been. I worked at the theatre from 72-75, my father, a farmer, had bought mules there when he was a young man. The theatre dept was very strong on campus and when the theatre was destroyed most of the majors left and a couple of years later the college itself closed. Steve on 10/21/04 3:02 PM, Stephen Litterst at slitterst [at] ithaca.edu wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: >> --------------------------------------------------- >> In Europe, we seem to have lost few theatres to fires. Drottningholm, in >> Sweden, burned down in 1762, and was rebuilt as it now stands, by 1768. >> Covent >> Garden, in London, was twice destroyed in the 19th Century. La Fenice in >> Venice >> was destroyed during its refurbishment, and La Licieu, in Barcelona, went up, >> too. Casualties, nil. > > Richmond Theatre, Richmond, VA. 1811. 72 Lives lost, including the > governor and (rumor has it) Edgar Allen Poe's mother. > > The aforementioned Iroquois. > > Brooklyn Theatre Fire, 1876. 200+ lives lost. > > The Exeter Theatre (in Devon) burned down twice with no casualties, > only to spoil its record in 1887 when the Theatre Royal burned down > taking 186 patrons with it. > > 1881, the Ring Theatre in Vienna. 450-600 lost. > > 1862. The Bath Theatre. no casualties. > > And that's just from a quick Google. Theatre Fires were (and still > are) a very real and present danger. > > Steve L. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:34:38 -0500 From: "Frank E. Merrill" Message-ID: <11810599878.20041021153438 [at] TCON.net> Subject: Re: Fire on stage Hello! The recent discussion of theatre disasters prompted me to drag out my ancient reference book: "...some apalling statistics, which show theatre fires exactly doubling their number in the first decade following the introduction of gas [stage lighting] - a total of 385 between 1801 and 1877, America, Great Britain and France heading the list, in that order...." Hartnoll, Phyllis The Oxford Companion to the Theatre Third Edition, 1967 Oxford University Press, London, p. 565 Um...did I do that citation properly? It's been awhile...lol Best regards, Frank E. Merrill MERRILL STAGE EQUIPMENT Established 1946 Indianapolis 317: 255 4666 Running The Bat! Natural e-mail system v3.0 mailto:Lamplighter [at] TCON.net ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041021133914.02bf3330 [at] localhost> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:40:21 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Power Issue In-Reply-To: References: At 08:12 AM 10/21/2004, you wrote: >First step, I'd say, is to have an electrician or Elec Eng monitor the >load on each phase going into the rack, and see if they're >unbalanced. There's other causes for this, but I'd say start here. AND monitor neutral current. They often won't check that since they "know" it can't be higher than any of the legs. Of course it can be higher with dimmers, but electricians usually don't know that. ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com pgp: 45A2 0A52 1D56 70C2 B865 9D5C 83F2 2112 04CE 2B54 ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <0C4F588D-2238-11D9-8335-000A95BD64AC [at] earthlink.net> From: Sunil Rajan Subject: Re: Amateur/professional/academic Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:33:30 -0700 > The artistic merit just doesn't figure into the definitions, and > neither does the competence > of the actors and technicians. > > It's a funny old world. > > Frank Wood This is SO true! I consider myself a "professional" having made my living as a sound engineer/designer/whatever for 15 years. I know a great many professionals who work "real jobs" (ie. drafting/CAD/paperwork, etc. for large entertainment firms or designers) making money, so that they can "f*$k-off and do 'art' (theatre)" when they want. There aren't a lot of designers or technicians that make their living doing Art these days. You can either stick to your guns and fight the Art For Art's Sake cause; or the prevailing Art For A Paycheck cause. I am incredibly fortunate when I get the opportunity to do a show that is actually GOOD, but often find myself working on mediocre shows because I have bills to pay. Case in point: I am currently working on The 10 Commandments: The Musical (starring Val Kilmer), purely because they're paying me to be in L.A.! Sad but true. And yes, most of the reviews are right on the mark. If there is such a definition of Professional Amateur, this is it (I would like to think it's not me)! sigh... Cheers, Sunil Rajan Freelance Audio Mercenary ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:02:20 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Power Issue Message-id: <417823DC.7338B794 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References:

Jerry Durand wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > AND monitor neutral current. They often won't check that since they "know" > it can't be higher than any of the legs. Of course it can be higher with > dimmers, but electricians usually don't know that. Jerry, you *know* better than to make that statement in front of Frank. Here we go again, folks! ;-) Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Subject: Fresnel Replacement Recommendations Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:04:23 -0400 Message-ID: <56439B09A4ADDC46876BDFF2BBD35DF001C17516 [at] ex1.capecod.edu> From: "Hofmann, Christopher" I don't get out of my humble facility much so I'm looking to the wisdom of the list for some recommendations with regard to some new lighting fixtures. As I mentioned in the Grant Writing thread recently, I'm pursuing some money to replace our outdated lighting fixtures in order to save on electrical consumption. I'd like to find a replacement for my 1kw 8" Kleigl fresnels. I've been through the archives and read quite a bit about the S4Parnel. I'm looking for input on what other manufactures have. Any thoughts? - Chris =20 Creativity is the inability to follow someone else's rules. - Cliff Stoll ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:34:23 -0700 Message-ID: <05ad01c4b7b5$bbfead50$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: What is very interesting if one has the valuable time is to call each and every state fire marshal's office and many insurance carriers and ask for fires with theaters and or public assembly. You might be amazed, well not this group, but some, as to the great number of small fires that have occurred and do occur in theaters and auditoriums and other entertainment related venues. Hundreds of them. I know, I know, as a miniscule few of you say, who cares or who needs those statistics? These statistics and the data is used by a great many groups. Respectfully, Dr. doom ==================================================== A Masters Workshop for Entertainment Technicians, Riggers, Public Assembly Technicians, and Educational Performing Arts Personnel - Sponsored by Risk International & Associates, Inc. April 4, 5, 6, 2005 at ELCO Performing Arts Center, Elkhart, Indiana Brochure & Registration Form available at: www.riskit.com/workshops ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Litterst Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 12:03 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Fire on Stage For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > In Europe, we seem to have lost few theatres to fires. Drottningholm, in > Sweden, burned down in 1762, and was rebuilt as it now stands, by 1768. Covent > Garden, in London, was twice destroyed in the 19th Century. La Fenice in Venice > was destroyed during its refurbishment, and La Licieu, in Barcelona, went up, > too. Casualties, nil. Richmond Theatre, Richmond, VA. 1811. 72 Lives lost, including the governor and (rumor has it) Edgar Allen Poe's mother. The aforementioned Iroquois. Brooklyn Theatre Fire, 1876. 200+ lives lost. The Exeter Theatre (in Devon) burned down twice with no casualties, only to spoil its record in 1887 when the Theatre Royal burned down taking 186 patrons with it. 1881, the Ring Theatre in Vienna. 450-600 lost. 1862. The Bath Theatre. no casualties. And that's just from a quick Google. Theatre Fires were (and still are) a very real and present danger. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <8a.184d352b.2ea9896a [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:51:38 EDT Subject: Re: Fire on Stage In a message dated 21/10/04 19:22:50 GMT Daylight Time, stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes: > > It's the old personal responsibility thread again, really. "I > > do something > > stupid, I pay the price". > > Unfortunately, sometimes when we do something stupid, 100 audience > members pay the price. This harks back to the 'professionalism' thread. That is, really, about what being a professional is: NOT doing stupid things. I appreciate that this leads to a very conservative mindset, and I deprecate this. But, at the same time, how do we move forwards? As I implied, our fire codes should not be constrained by historical events. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1f9.14ff76b.2ea98ae1 [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:57:53 EDT Subject: Re: Fire on Stage In a message dated 21/10/04 20:03:34 GMT Daylight Time, slitterst [at] ithaca.edu writes: > And that's just from a quick Google. Theatre Fires were (and still > are) a very real and present danger. I note that all the dates you quote are from the 19th century, before modern fire precautions, and electric lighting were in place. I do not believe that Theatre Fires are a present danger. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "Michael S. Eddy" Subject: RE: Fresnel Replacement Recommendations Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:05:29 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Chris Hoffman wrote: I'd like to find a replacement for my 1kw 8" Kleigl fresnels. I've been through the archives and read quite a bit about the S4Parnel. I'm looking for input on what other manufactures have. Any thoughts? Chris, I am a big fan of ETC Source Fours and S4 PARs, but run the other way from the PARnel. It is neither a good PAR or a good Fresnel. Take a look for yourself, but the spot to flood range is limited and the double lenses eat a lot of light. You might like the S4 PAR as a Fresnel replacement. With the four lenses that are included the VNSP and NSP are round and the MFL and WFL are more of the traditional bottle shape of a PAR. I opt for Fresnels when I can for all of their qualities. I really liked the older Kliegl Fresnels, especially the long bodied 6", although it had an odd 6-3/8" color frame! Strand makes good Fresnels and Altman makes a good, basic ones. If money is no object, then I would recommend Arri or DeSisti, which are designed as the workhorse for TV and film work. Whatever you decide, I highly recommend a side by side shootout, which I am sure your vendor or manufacturer choices would be happy to arrange for you. HTH, Michael Eddy ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <88.1770f123.2ea98d00 [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:06:56 EDT Subject: Re: Power Issue In a message dated 21/10/04 22:05:35 GMT Daylight Time, slitterst [at] ithaca.edu writes: > > AND monitor neutral current. They often won't check that since they "know" > > it can't be higher than any of the legs. Of course it can be higher with > > dimmers, but electricians usually don't know that. > > Jerry, you *know* better than to make that statement in front of > Frank. > > Here we go again, folks! ;-) No, I've given up on this one. I leave you with a quote from "The Ghost Train": "Where do 'ee come from, and where do 'ee go to?" Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Fire as Stage Illumination Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:10:59 -0700 Message-ID: <05c501c4b7ba$d98e53c0$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: Illuminating Engineer Society handbook or Phillips Corporation. For lighting information, lumens, etc. Dr. Doom ==================================================== A Masters Workshop for Entertainment Technicians, Riggers, Public Assembly Technicians, and Educational Performing Arts Personnel - Sponsored by Risk International & Associates, Inc. April 4, 5, 6, 2005 at ELCO Performing Arts Center, Elkhart, Indiana Brochure & Registration Form available at: www.riskit.com/workshops ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Owen Collins Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 8:41 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Fire as Stage Illumination For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- The recent thread about fire onstage brings up an Issue I need to deal with. I am on an advisory committee for a Theatre company. They have a reconstruction of Shakespeare's Blackfriars Playhouse. They produce ther plays as they think Shakepseare would have done, no set changes, lights up all the time, etc. See it at: http://www.ishakespeare.com/blackfriars/ In their effort to be "accurate" they are painting the woodwork as it would have in the 1600's. and They asked me to join this committe to talk to them about switching to replacing all the lighting with candles. Right now it is lit with electric candleabras and other instruments. I know that this is a BAD idea.I know they haven't really looked at the fire codes in the city. I don't think candles will be as bright enough for modern audineces to view a play. i think they amount need to have enough light will add to heat of the room. What I am interested in finding is some information to see if i am right and backup my assumptions. Where can I look to compare lumen and heat output of lighting instruments to candles(god i feel funny asking that) This is what you get when English professors start doing theatre. thanks, Owen Collins ------------------------------ From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:16:03 -0400 Message-ID: <001a01c4b7bb$8e1dedf0$6701a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > I note that all the dates you quote are from the 19th > century, before modern > fire precautions Some of those "modern fire precautions" are the very policies we're advocating here. ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:26:55 -0700 Message-ID: <05d501c4b7bd$135b77c0$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: I have more legal briefs on this than I can think of, and Bill is correct in noting poor judgment, and he is being charitable. The pyro and operators, and owners, et al, the physical building itself, violations all over the place, and way beyond the capacity of the assembly, all of these contributed to senseless deaths, much less those hundreds who are still injured, burned, and emotionally connected. Cued up or not the word is that bouncers would not let people out, hearsay, but interesting. Exit signs covered over, etc. The list is so long it creates anger just to think of them. WE developed Standards and they were not followed, obeyed, enforced. Bargain or no bargain, people did not bargain for losing their lives and futures. Dr. doom ==================================================== A Masters Workshop for Entertainment Technicians, Riggers, Public Assembly Technicians, and Educational Performing Arts Personnel - Sponsored by Risk International & Associates, Inc. April 4, 5, 6, 2005 at ELCO Performing Arts Center, Elkhart, Indiana Brochure & Registration Form available at: www.riskit.com/workshops ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Conner Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:10 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Fire on Stage For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Dale wrote: "Now the Station Nightclub fire just last year ( Where the culprits were poorly marked fire escapes and flammable materials stapled to the walls. )" I think this misses the mark by not noting that the pyro and poor procedures and very poor judgment in it's use by the "entertainment technicians" were the primary failure. Many other things contributed but without the reckless use of pyro, there would have been no news. Instead 100 dead. Likewise management was poor or non-existent. Certainly the flammable foam on the walls contributed and could have been ignited by other causes though it would take some work and coordination to ignite it in three separate places simultaneously. Since everyone was cued up at the doors, I'm not sure how much marking of egress contributed to the problem. Similarly, to those that claim that "panic" contributed to the death tool - I'm not sure what the occupants could have done differently that would have made a difference. They were, after all, at the doors and trying to get out. There were standards and are standards for the use of pyro but in the end, those people responsible for proper use and application of the standards didn't hold up their end of the bargain. Regards, Bill ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:28:46 -0700 Message-ID: <05dd01c4b7bd$598f9320$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: And to echo Bill's comment, we find the same with so many other special effects, lasers, strobes, etc. used in the elementary and junior highs, much less pyro. Doom ==================================================== A Masters Workshop for Entertainment Technicians, Riggers, Public Assembly Technicians, and Educational Performing Arts Personnel - Sponsored by Risk International & Associates, Inc. April 4, 5, 6, 2005 at ELCO Performing Arts Center, Elkhart, Indiana Brochure & Registration Form available at: www.riskit.com/workshops ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Conner Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 6:53 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Fire on Stage For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Of course we can blame it on Frank. After all, the scenery in the Iroquois Theatre at the time it burned was from Great Brittan - oil paint on linen. It's clearly all his fault. From the point of view of developing regulations (codes) and not to mix this with the academic vs. professional vs. amateur thread, it's difficult to permit effects or anything that can be a danger with the provision it be done safely. For instance, I was steadfast against removing the prohibition of pyro from the Life Safety Code but that was done in the 1994 edition with a lot of lobbying by the pyrotechnic manufacturers (at least one of whom supplied pyro to the Great White and was listed as a defendant in the Station disaster). I was against it because once it's allowed in "professional" theatre - where there are the resources to take proper precautions - the "non-professional" theatres will imitate it. If it is permitted as of right by the codes, there will be less scrutiny and oversight then if it is prohibited and an exception or waiver is required. For example, if an NBA franchise wants to use pyro with player introductions, with all their money they could get a variance after submitting a reasonable plan for safety and having it approved by authorities. When podunk high school sees pyro is permitted by the code, they probably don't even have the funds to buy the regs or standards that are a condition of using pyro and accidents will happen. There are also societal differences and attitudes towards safety that are harder to explain. Regards, Bill ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1d9.2e8bab51.2ea99278 [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:30:16 EDT Subject: Re: Fire on Stage In a message dated 21/10/04 23:16:32 GMT Daylight Time, stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes: > > > I note that all the dates you quote are from the 19th > > century, before modern > > fire precautions > > Some of those "modern fire precautions" are the very policies we're > advocating here. I doubt that.This is the year 2004. Things have changed, and we should recognise that. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Fire on Stage Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:31:51 -0700 Message-ID: <05e801c4b7bd$c367d3c0$726dfea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: Bad apples in every group. doom ==================================================== A Masters Workshop for Entertainment Technicians, Riggers, Public Assembly Technicians, and Educational Performing Arts Personnel - Sponsored by Risk International & Associates, Inc. April 4, 5, 6, 2005 at ELCO Performing Arts Center, Elkhart, Indiana Brochure & Registration Form available at: www.riskit.com/workshops ==================================================== Risk International & Associates, Inc. - Dedicated to making the world a healthier & safer place. Website: www.riskit.com E-mail: rdavidson [at] riskit.com ==================================================== International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - Dedicated to the protection of every student in the performing arts. Website: www.isetsa.org E-mail: info [at] isetsa.org ==================================================== 960 E. Bonita #158, Pomona, CA 91767 Phone/Fax: (909) 625-5961 ==================================================== -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jeffrey E. Salzberg Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 5:51 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Fire on Stage For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- > Be it 2004 or not, there are still theatres, clubs, hotels, > convention > centers and restaurants ...And, alas, performers.... > who don't care a fig for life safety codes or > try to avoid such issues for whatever reasons ------------------------------ From: "Karl G. Ruling" Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:32:49 -0700 Subject: Re: DMX back channel question Message-ID: <4177D6A1.14266.62599C [at] localhost> In-reply-to: On 20 Oct 2004 at 3:01, Stagecraft wrote: > The second pair of wires (if they exist at all) in a DMX512 line are > defined to be a data channel for sending data back to the controller. > I know some manufacturers send power over this, others may use it for > other things not in the spec. No. USITT DMX512/1990 says the optional data link is for data-- that's all. It doesn't say anything about the direction of the data or what kind of data, other than it conforms to the electrical specification of EIA 485. > The question is about the possibility of strange uses of this > pair. Assuming the second pair is there and NOT being used for some > undefined power, is it safe to assume then that it's being used for > data? That's what it's supposed to be for, but I wouldn't assume anything if the assumption could lead to a loss of equipment. > Also, is the data always RS-485 and is it always flowing only towards > the controller (no bi-directional communications)? It's supposed to be RS-485 (EIA 485) per the standard, but who knows what people actually put on that link. It could be a single channel of 0-10V analog. That wouldn't conform to the standard, but there aren't any DMX512 police busting people if they don't follow the rules. EIA 485 is an electrical specification for a bi-directional bus. Data could go either way, per the standard. > For that matter, if it IS used for power, what's the max voltage > anyone sends over the second pair? Less than the breakdown voltage of the insulation. Similar question: What's the maximum speed that speeders drive when they are speeding? USITT sells the standard and it's pretty inexpensive and it answers all the questions about what's in the standard. The USITT standard is 7 pages long, so it's not hard to read and understand. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:46:35 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Message-id: <41783C4B.1B8E44CE [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 21/10/04 23:16:32 GMT Daylight Time, > stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes: > > > > > > I note that all the dates you quote are from the 19th > > > century, before modern > > > fire precautions > > > > Some of those "modern fire precautions" are the very policies we're > > advocating here. > > I doubt that.This is the year 2004. Things have changed, and we should > recognise that. Curtailing the use of flammable materials on stage. Common sense now, maybe. But certainly a "modern fire precaution" predicated by a few of the aforementioned cases. Clearly marked exits. Same thing. Easily accessible and *openable* exits. See above. I have to agree with Mr. Salzberg. Most of our modern fire regulations can be pretty easily traced to a situation where that regulation was clearly needed. In the cases I cited earlier, I did notice in several that the fires were started by torches or lanterns as scenery, not lighting. The fires that were started by gas lamps, or other architectural lighting were usually the ones with fewer casualties. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:47:34 -0400 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: DMX back channel question Message-id: <41783C86.29A3D598 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: "Karl G. Ruling" wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > It's supposed to be RS-485 (EIA 485) per the standard, but who knows what people > actually put on that link. It could be a single channel of 0-10V analog. That wouldn't > conform to the standard, but there aren't any DMX512 police busting people if they > don't follow the rules. Oooh! Oooh! I know what I wanna be when I grow up, now! Can I have a badge and a car with a flashy light? -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:35:33 -0500 From: Mick Alderson Subject: Re: Standard Voltages Sensor Dimmers Message-id: Frank wrote: >Bear in mind, too, that most AC meters are set to give an RMS measurement >when reading a sine wave. With non-sinusoidal waveforms such as dimmers >produce, >there will be a reading error. How much and which way, I don't know, as it >will depend on the meter. > I know this is true when you've actually dimmed a circuit, because the wave is chopped by the dimming process. But if a dimmer is running at "full", wouldn't the resulting wave be close enough to a sine wave for a standard AC meter to be fairly accurate? The amount of wave clipping would be negligible. In the case we've been discussing, we are talking about a line lose from 120 VAC to 115 VAC, but that is a resistive drop from the circuit wire, so the wave at the outlet would be slightily lower in amplitude but otherwise the same form as when it left the dimmer. Logic says that is near enough to a true sine wave to still read fairly close to accurate. But I'm not an electronics engineer, and stand ready to be corrected. Mick Alderson TD, Fredric March Theatre University of Wisconsin Oshkosh alderson [at] uwosh.edu ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041021162444.00ac4948 [at] localhost> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:29:30 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: DMX back channel question In-Reply-To: References:

At 03:32 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote: >USITT sells the standard and it's pretty inexpensive and it answers all >the questions >about what's in the standard. The USITT standard is 7 pages long, so it's >not hard to >read and understand. I have the standard, and also have three dimmer packs. Two have 3-pin XLR connectors and flicker if the DMX update rate is fast but well within spec. The 3-pin dimmers also don't have a single mention of termination in their documentation or anywhere on the dimmer. Just because a standard is printed doesn't mean everyone (or anyone) follows it. I was trying to get a feel for what can be expected on pins 4 & 5, in case our future products could do something useful with it (like support equipment that uses it). The general feeling I get is it isn't worth supporting ANYTHING on those two pins. ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com pgp: 45A2 0A52 1D56 70C2 B865 9D5C 83F2 2112 04CE 2B54 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000501c4b7c6$167c50b0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References: Subject: C7 bulb=candelabra base? Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:31:27 -0700 Greetings all.... is the threading / base of a C7 Christmas bulb the same as the candelabra base? I want to outfit gazillions of sockets on Christmas strings with a more 'globe' (or "G" series) bulb. Tanks everyone! -- Jon Ares Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts www.hevanet.com/acreative http://www.wlhs.wlwv.k12.or.us/aresj/theatre/index.htm ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20041021163458.00aba150 [at] localhost> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:37:06 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Standard Voltages Sensor Dimmers In-Reply-To: References: At 04:35 PM 10/21/2004, you wrote: >I know this is true when you've actually dimmed a circuit, because the wave >is chopped by the dimming process. But if a dimmer is running at "full", >wouldn't the resulting wave be close enough to a sine wave for a standard >AC meter to be fairly accurate? It would be pretty close. But, if you're going to be doing any serious measurements, you should at least borrow a good meter. Make sure it says "TRUE RMS" on it. I use a Fluke 8060A that I've had since they were new (its calibration has been re-checked many times since then). ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com pgp: 45A2 0A52 1D56 70C2 B865 9D5C 83F2 2112 04CE 2B54 ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:37:30 EDT Subject: Re: Fire as Stage Illumination Shakespeare's audience went to HEAR a play mid-afternoon in an open roofed theatre thus eliminating the need for ambient lighting. Some things are best NOT done in a historically accurate way. Kristi ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <140.3541c273.2ea9a8dd [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:05:49 EDT Subject: Advice from "Mom" Re: Amateur/professional/academic Cc: squeakypig [at] earthlink.net In a message dated 10/21/4 3:45:07 PM, squeakypig [at] earthlink.net wrote: <> Sunil, I've never met you and do not know your work personally. From your posts here I gather you are a conscientious worker and want to do a great job. Our craft needs people like that, so please hear my heart... don't diss your current show/employer. The folks you're working with right now may have the world's largest hit with their next effort (or a later version of this one) and your "attitude" may preclude you from being a part of it. Theatre is a VERY small world, with lots of fragile egos spending most of their lives in small sunless spaces. To paraphrase Thumper in Bambi, "If you can't say somethin' nice, don't say anything at all." When asked point blank "What do you think of the show?" a pregnant pause and "It's... interesting..." along with a forced smile will tell the listener everything they need to know. Find SOMETHING to be positive about and rave about it. Perhaps someone on the crew has been wonderful, or Val has been great to work with. But keep in mind that LOTS of people will know about your "attitude" and may not hire you because they don't want to be dissed online either. If you have a safety issues or the like, there are union and company channels to air that grievance. If you want info or support, you can ask on here without identifying the employer/venue. The wealth of knowledge on this list is mind boggling! You can tell us all about it in 3-5 years over the beverage of your choice or share it here after it's no longer germane to your employment status. Just don't want to see you lose out because of something said casually. Kristi ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:09:55 -0700 Subject: Re: Fire on Stage Message-ID: <20041021.174119.1960.1.ladesigners [at] juno.com> From: Richard Niederberg Flames in a metallic barrel or in another type of incombustible container may or may not qualify as an 'open' flame. A professionally designed, engineered, and manufactured, self extinguishing device such as GAM Torch will normally pass muster with AHJs and the 'suits' on site. /s/ Richard > As for open flame NFPA 101, adopted by virtually every > community and state as the base code states in Reg 9-3.2.5, > OPEN FLAME DEVISES- No open flame devices shall be > used in any public assembly occupancy. ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:22:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Fire as Stage Illumination Message-ID: <20041021.174119.1960.2.ladesigners [at] juno.com> From: Richard Niederberg At least they are not considering doing shows from an era where powdered lime placed in hooded tin can bottoms, and ignited, was the norm. /s/ Richard > They asked me to join this committe to talk to them > about switching to replacing all the lighting with candles. > Owen Collins ________________________________________________________________ Speed up your surfing with Juno SpeedBand. Now includes pop-up blocker! Only $14.95/ month - visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today! ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #170 *****************************