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Subject: Stagecraft Digest #185
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For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Stagecraft Digest, Issue #185

 1. Lifting problem
    by "Peter.Kiely" <Peter.Kiely [at] telkomsa.net>
 2. Re: Voting
    by "Paul Guncheon" <paul.guncheon [at] verizon.net>
 3. Re: IAAPA /   ORLANDO
    by Jason Tollefson <jason [at] tollefsondesigns.com>
 4. Re: IAAPA /   ORLANDO
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
 5. Re: Lifting problem
    by "Hall, Delbert L." <HALLD [at] mail.etsu.edu>
 6. Re: Lifting problem
    by Steve Larson <tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com>
 7. Re: Lifting problem
    by "Hall, Delbert L." <HALLD [at] mail.etsu.edu>
 8. Re: Digest Message Numbering
    by Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
 9. Re: Lifting problem
    by "Immel,Patrick" <PIMMEL [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu>
10. A renewed interest in cable wrapping!
    by Noah Price <stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net>
11. Re: A renewed interest in cable wrapping!
    by Herrick Goldman <Herrick [at] HGLightingDesign.com>
12. Re: Bizarre Multiple Catastrophic Truss Failure, Calculations
    by "Shawn Nolan" <ShawnN [at] entertainmentstructures.com>
13. Digest Message Numbering
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
14. Christmas Carol Turkey
    by Stefanie Christensen <spirch [at] charlestonstage.com>
15. Re: Christmas Carol Turkey
    by Steve Larson <tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com>
16. Building Flats
    by Sean Glovier <seanglovier04 [at] earthlink.net>
17. Re: Building Flats
    by "Immel,Patrick" <PIMMEL [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu>
18. Re: Lifting problem
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
19. Re: Building Flats
    by "Matthew Breton" <theatricalmatt [at] hotmail.com>
20. Re: Lifting problem
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
21. Re: Building Flats
    by Steve Larson <tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com>
22. Re: Building Flats
    by Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net>
23. Ground Terminology: was cold water ground
    by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com
24. Numbering Stagecraft Digest Posts
    by June Abernathy <jea00321 [at] yahoo.com>
25. Way off-topic, but ...
    by John Arrowsmith <john [at] arrowsmith.demon.co.uk>
26. Re: Building Flats
    by "Matthew Breton" <theatricalmatt [at] hotmail.com>
27. Re: Select paint area on drop- UPDATE
    by Chris Wych <a_small_idiot [at] yahoo.com>

*** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject
*** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to
*** one message subject in each reply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Peter.Kiely" <Peter.Kiely [at] telkomsa.net>
Subject: Lifting problem
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:07:53 +0200
Message-ID: <000001c4c195$5f3e9000$5c95fea9 [at] Peter1>
In-Reply-To: <list-4867659 [at] prxy.net>

Firstly thanks to all for their advise on the dry ice fog making methods
- worked very well.

For our little show next year, I would like to make an actor appear out
of the roof. The height of the ceiling above the stage floor is only 3
meters, but if I cut a hole into the ceiling, there  is a standard "A"
frame beams in the ceiling which is high enough for a person to stand.

Does anyone have any diagrams to show how I could rig up a lifting type
platform that could be used to raise and lower actors into the ceiling
as apposed to fixing some sort of rope to the actors themselves?

Best Regards
 
 
Peter Kiely,



------------------------------

Message-ID: <007d01c4c199$5510add0$0202a8c0 [at] MyLastPC>
From: "Paul Guncheon" <paul.guncheon [at] verizon.net>
References: <list-4882225 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Voting
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 01:36:16 -1000

Me somebody, eh?

Last night, I received personal phone calls from President Bush,
Ex-president Bill Clinton, 2 calls from Arnold Schwarzenegger.

I must really be important for these leaders of our nation to take the time
to sit down, look up my number, and call me to personally urge me to vote.

I didn't have the heart to tell them that I had voted on Saturday 'cause
hey, why ruin their day?

I also got one from some local candidate who mumbled his name so I didn't
get it.

Laters,

Paul

"Not tonight, dear...I'm too tired," Tom said, petering out.


------------------------------

Message-ID: <20041103122005.7301.qmail [at] web54709.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 04:20:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Jason Tollefson <jason [at] tollefsondesigns.com>
Subject: Re: IAAPA /   ORLANDO
In-Reply-To: <list-4882225 [at] prxy.net>

I'll definitly be here in Orlando during the show and would love to attend.  Do you know where I
could pick up a couple of floor passes?

Jason Tollefson

> Any one planing on being in Orlando and attending IAAPA in November?
> 
> let me know, 
> 
> 
> very best,
> 
> Keith Arsenault


------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <fa.569962f.2eba33ae [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:14:22 EST
Subject: Re: IAAPA /   ORLANDO


In a message dated 11/3/04 7:20:43 AM, jason [at] tollefsondesigns.com writes:

>
>I'll definitly be here in Orlando during the show and would love to attend.
> Do you know where I
>could pick up a couple of floor passes?
>
>Jason Tollefson


comp floor passes to IAAPA are few and far between, , , 

not like LDI 

very best,

Keith Arsenault


------------------------------

Subject: RE: Lifting problem
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:47:59 -0500
Message-ID: <C5FA5FEED6F0884E9EB90BB3C010F1EF08C99CAF [at] etsuex1.etsu.edu>
From: "Hall, Delbert L." <HALLD [at] mail.etsu.edu>

Peter,

Unless you go with a ground supported lift (like a personnel lift) it =
does not matter whether you are lifting the performer directly or =
lifting a platform on which a performer is standing or sitting, the =
problem is exactly the same.  In fact, you must deal with a greater load =
if you utilize a platform on which a performer is standing or sitting - =
the weight of the platform.=20

Here are some questions that will help me understand your needs better:
1) What is the show?
2) What is the weight of the heaviest performer that will =
ascend/descend?
3) How far does the platform need to ascend/descend?
4) How fast does the platform need to ascend/descend?
5) Is there a floor in the attic where several operators can stand?
6) What are the dimensions of the attic and where in the attic will the =
trap/platform be located?
7) What size platform do you want to lift?
8) What is your budget for this effect?
9) Where are you located?

There are several ways to tackle this problem, but the solution will =
probably come down to a combination of mechanical advantage and =
counterweight. =20

You might want to email me privately.

Delbert L. Hall, President
Hall Associates, Inc.
Phone: 423-773-HALL
Web: www.flyingfx.com


-----Original Message-----

For our little show next year, I would like to make an actor appear out =
of the roof. The height of the ceiling above the stage floor is only 3 =
meters, but if I cut a hole into the ceiling, there  is a standard "A" =
frame beams in the ceiling which is high enough for a person to stand.

Does anyone have any diagrams to show how I could rig up a lifting type =
platform that could be used to raise and lower actors into the ceiling =
as apposed to fixing some sort of rope to the actors themselves?

Best Regards
=20
=20
Peter Kiely,


=20

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004
=20

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 08:51:08 -0500
Subject: Re: Lifting problem
From: Steve Larson <tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com>
Message-ID: <BDAE4C7C.1D6A%tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-4883276 [at] prxy.net>

AND BUDGET!

 the solution will probably come down to a combination
 of mechanical advantage and counterweight.


STEVE


------------------------------

Subject: RE: Lifting problem
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:54:34 -0500
Message-ID: <C5FA5FEED6F0884E9EB90BB3C010F1EF08C99CB0 [at] etsuex1.etsu.edu>
From: "Hall, Delbert L." <HALLD [at] mail.etsu.edu>


AND BUDGET!

Steve - see question #8.

-Delbert

=20

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004
=20

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 10:26:42 -0500
Subject: Re: Digest Message Numbering
From: Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BDAE62E2.4335%bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-4882225 [at] prxy.net>

> Would anyone else who takes Stagecraft as a digest appreciate having the
> messages numbered?  The messages are numbered in the index at the top of
> the page, but corresponding numbers do not appear in the body of the
> messages.  Message-Id is not information that is particularly helpful to
> me, but if it were possible, a Message Number would be a great time saver.

YES!  I agree about the Message ID as well. Message numbers corresponding
with the index would be much more helpful!
  
Bruce
-- 
Bruce Purdy        
Cayuga NY USA
bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com


------------------------------

Message-ID: <147CF8DFB9C5D41187300001FA7EE3902277CC8B [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu>
From: "Immel,Patrick" <PIMMEL [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu>
Subject: RE: Lifting problem
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 09:41:37 -0600 

 Peter, 

Check out this link:

http://info.nwmissouri.edu/%7Epimmel/usitt/source_guide/index.htm

Look at issue #31 "A LEVER-ACUATED ELEVATOR TRAP".  Maybe this is something
that you could use!

Patrick Immel
Lighting & Scenic Designer
Northwest Missouri State University
Editor - Technical Source Guide





> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter.Kiely [mailto:Peter.Kiely [at] telkomsa.net] 

> For our little show next year, I would like to make an actor 
> appear out of the roof. The height of the ceiling above the 
> stage floor is only 3 meters, but if I cut a hole into the 
> ceiling, there  is a standard "A"
> frame beams in the ceiling which is high enough for a person to stand.
> 
> Does anyone have any diagrams to show how I could rig up a 
> lifting type platform that could be used to raise and lower 
> actors into the ceiling as apposed to fixing some sort of 
> rope to the actors themselves?

------------------------------

Message-Id: <2A91E842-2DB6-11D9-AA61-000A958ABBF8 [at] theprices.net>
From: Noah Price <stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net>
Subject: A renewed interest in cable wrapping!
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 08:34:00 -0800

I took the web site off line yesterday afternoon, since I couldn't 
figure out why there was a sudden spike of activity that looked like it 
could interfere with other sites.


Turns out Chris' world famous cable coiling drew attention from 
Slashdot:

<http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/11/02/1310214&tid=222&tid=1>

Specifically:

<http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=128057&cid=10699962>

Congratulations, Chris! :-)


The Stagecraft site is back on line, with some router magic to contain 
the impact to that site. So, if the Stagecraft site seems sluggish, 
that's why! This is unrelated to other problems you may find with the 
site, caused by instability in the archive database server. I have some 
upgrades planned to fix that, too.

(that server is completely separate from the list or my main 
"production" web servers, so no other sites or email were affected)

Thanks,

Noah

-- 
|   Noah Price                |   http://stagecraft.theprices.net/     |
|   Stagecraft Mailing List   |   stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net         |


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 12:02:45 -0500
Subject: Re: A renewed interest in cable wrapping!
From: Herrick Goldman <Herrick [at] HGLightingDesign.com>
Message-ID: <BDAE7965.7E7%Herrick [at] HGLightingDesign.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-4884585 [at] prxy.net>

Hey I read that site evry day and it's a great honor to be slash-dotted.
Congrats chris!



-- 
Herrick Goldman
Lighting Designer, NYC
www.HGLightingDesign.com

"To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in
light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS


------------------------------

From: "Shawn Nolan" <ShawnN [at] entertainmentstructures.com>
Subject: Re: Bizarre Multiple Catastrophic Truss Failure, Calculations
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 12:47:16 -0500
Message-Id: <20041103174141.0BACC44345 [at] mailin-1.isoc.net>

Dale,

I will be happy to put together a formal set of calcs.  I will need 
some additional info on the truss to do this analysis.  This is 
especially important if I am to do this analysis without knowing 
who made the truss (I do not want to know who made
the truss!!).  Here is what I will need to know:
 
    -- Truss cross sectional profile including tube spacing and 
    chord outside diameter and wall thickness.
    -- Truss side "elevation" showing the web tube dimensions and
    including the web tube outside diameter and wall thickness.
    Also, obviously, overall dimensions.
    -- End plate configuration including all dimensions and method
    of connection.
    -- What type of connection fasteners were used.
    -- Rough estimate of weld sizes using standard criteria for 
    weld size measurement.  If you need info on how to measure the 
    weld, contact me off list and I'll give you the best guidance 
    I can.  Your weld engineer friend may also be able to help.  
    It may be as simple as getting a set of welding inspection gages 
    (I think these are readily available from places like 
    McMaster-Carr or Grainger for about $25) and checking the weld 
    sizes.  Probably a set of fillet and butt weld gauges would 
    suffice.
    -- Loading info.  Ideally, this would be an elevation sketch 
    of the truss with the curtain shown as it was attached.  
    This will show me the irregular profile of the curtain so 
    I can figure the loading accurately.  Also, an idea of the 
    material used in the curtain.  Also, any other loads that
    were applied to the truss.
 
You can either post all of this data to the list or email it 
directly to me.  Either way is o.k. with me.
 
I will need to make some conservative assumptions about material 
strengths for the tubes, weld metal and connection plates but, 
this should not be too much of a problem.  My analysis will not 
be 100% accurate since I will not know precisely the material 
properties and weld sizes (as designed) but, it should get us 
pretty close.
 
If you can get me this info by Friday, I will put together 
some formal calcs over the weekend.  I will then create a 
web link to the calcs for all to view.  
I'll post this link to the list when it is ready.
 
Shawn Nolan, P.E.
Entertainment Structures Group
A Division of Steven Schaefer Associates
10411 Medallion Drive, Suite 121
Cincinnati, OH  45241
(513) 699-2571 direct line
(513) 542-3300 main line
(513) 542-5540 fax
(513) 706-3125 mobile
Shawn.Nolan [at] EntertainmentStructures.com
www.EntertainmentStructures.com 
<http://www.entertainmentstructures.com/> 
 



------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20041103110627.0197e118 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 11:06:27
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Digest Message Numbering

>Would anyone else who takes Stagecraft as a digest appreciate having the 
>messages numbered? 

I'd just like the folk who DON'T get it in digest form to trim just a
little bit.  Ya KNOW that you're screwing up when your post has
"---Original Message---" more than once.  Look, its like turn signals,
kids.  It ain't necessarily for you, but it could mean a whole lot to the
next guy down the road.  Not only is it good manners, but its the expected
norm according to the posting guidelines you (were supposed to) read when
you joined the list.  
Plus, I reiterate, how can you take the suggestions of a technician that
can't figure out how to trim his replies?  
C'mon, there is enough laziness and greed screwing enough things for enough
people already.  It's time y'all jumped off this bandwagon.
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				MON AZ

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-4841962 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-4841962 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <29BBA9C0-2DC8-11D9-BD8B-000A9582D34C [at] charlestonstage.com>
From: Stefanie Christensen <spirch [at] charlestonstage.com>
Subject: Christmas Carol Turkey
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 13:42:50 -0500

We are doing Christmas Carol and were wondering if anyone had a good 
looking turkey from the butchers shop for the end of the play that we 
could rent, borrow, steal?

Thanks

Stefanie P Christensen	
Technical Director
Charleston Stage Company	
19 Warren Street
Charleston SC 29403

(843)577-0868


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:23:31 -0500
Subject: Re: Christmas Carol Turkey
From: Steve Larson <tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com>
Message-ID: <BDAE9A63.1D7E%tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-4885657 [at] prxy.net>

A fake 20# roast turkey retails for about $120.

http://www.barnardltd.com/$spindb.query.listall4.tdview

will take  you one such vendor.  I googled "prop food"
to find that.

Steve

on 11/3/04 1:42 PM, Stefanie Christensen at spirch [at] charlestonstage.com
wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> We are doing Christmas Carol and were wondering if anyone had a good
> looking turkey from the butchers shop for the end of the play that we
> could rent, borrow, steal?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Stefanie P Christensen
> Technical Director
> Charleston Stage Company
> 19 Warren Street
> Charleston SC 29403
> 
> (843)577-0868
> 
> 
> 


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 14:17:12 -0600
Subject: Building Flats
From: Sean Glovier <seanglovier04 [at] earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <BDAE98E8.19E%seanglovier04 [at] earthlink.net>

I am building a flat for a Technical Fundamentals class, and I was curious
on how to go about it.  The only specifications are that it has to be 3'by
4'.  It also has to be able to be rigged on a fly system.  I need
suggestions because before this class I could not work a power drill.
Thanks!




This message was content scanned by the TLU McAfee Webshield.

------------------------------

Message-ID: <147CF8DFB9C5D41187300001FA7EE3902277CCE5 [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu>
From: "Immel,Patrick" <PIMMEL [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu>
Subject: RE: Building Flats
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 14:35:27 -0600 

Hi Sean,

I would sit down and talk with your instructor with your questions.
Hopefully you went over in class, how to build a flat (standard and/or
hollywood).  Also I hope your instructor trained you in the proper operation
of all tools needed to build your flat.  Anyways...you should first go to
your instructor!

I hope this helps,

Patrick Immel
Northwest Missouri State University 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sean Glovier [mailto:seanglovier04 [at] earthlink.net] 
> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2004 2:17 PM
> To: Stagecraft
> Subject: Building Flats
> 
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> I am building a flat for a Technical Fundamentals class, and 
> I was curious on how to go about it.  The only specifications 
> are that it has to be 3'by 4'.  It also has to be able to be 
> rigged on a fly system.  I need suggestions because before 
> this class I could not work a power drill.
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This message was content scanned by the TLU McAfee Webshield.
> 

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 17:05:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Lifting problem
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BDAEC06A.C0C%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-4883276 [at] prxy.net>

on 11/3/04 8:47 AM, Hall, Delbert L. at HALLD [at] mail.etsu.edu wrote:

> For our little show next year, I would like to make an actor appear out of the
> roof. The height of the ceiling above the stage floor is only 3 meters, but if
> I cut a hole into the ceiling, there  is a standard "A" frame beams in the
> ceiling which is high enough for a person to stand.
> 
> Does anyone have any diagrams to show how I could rig up a lifting type
> platform that could be used to raise and lower actors into the ceiling as
> apposed to fixing some sort of rope to the actors themselves?


Peter.  There are a number of methods you could use to solve this problem.
Anyone attempting to tackle it, however, will need considerably more
information.  I would think that a mechanical device, probably rentable,
might work well.  Scissors jacks, linear actuators, possible a chain hoist
all come to mind.

I would caution against using a counterweight system however as the load
shift of the actor getting on and off the platform will cause some problems.

Hope that helps
Bill S.
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

We stand behind, and under, our work.


------------------------------

From: "Matthew Breton" <theatricalmatt [at] hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Building Flats
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 18:08:13 -0500
Message-ID: <BAY14-F30JJAf8DA1Xu0001c200 [at] hotmail.com>

>I am building a flat for a Technical Fundamentals class, and I was curious
>on how to go about it.  The only specifications are that it has to be 3'by
>4'.  It also has to be able to be rigged on a fly system.  I need
>suggestions because before this class I could not work a power drill.

Most stagecraft textbooks (Parker & Wolf and Gilette are probably the two 
most used ones) contain schematics and building techniques for studio and 
theatre flats, as well as flying scenery.  Both also go into some detail 
into the engineering component (eg, why cornerblocks are necessary on 
theatre flats, and which way the grain should be laid) as well as flying 
scenery.

Three feet by four feet ... your instructor must be trying to save on lumber 
costs ... most flats are four by eight :)


Matthew Breton
Stage Manager
Shakespeare Now!

_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/


------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <65.3765ccd7.2ebac549 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 18:35:37 EST
Subject: Re: Lifting problem

In a message dated 03/11/04 22:05:36 GMT Standard Time, 
bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com writes:

> I would caution against using a counterweight system however as the load
>  shift of the actor getting on and off the platform will cause some 
problems.

Been there, got the T-shirt.

We did John Whiting's "Penny for a Song". This involves an actor making his 
first entrance in a hot-air balloon, coming down from the flies, and dropping 
into a well. That bit, we got right.There was a crew member down the trap to 
charge the balloon basket with stage weights, so that it could fly out under 
control.  There was another crew member with the unenviable duty of carrying them 
down under the stage.

One night, this was omitted. As we were using a counterweighted method, this 
took the actor down rather faster than we had anticipated. Thankfully, our 
alignment was good. It worked, but good fortune is no guide to safe working.

Frank Wood

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:15:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Building Flats
From: Steve Larson <tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com>
Message-ID: <BDAEDEC8.1D93%tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-4887966 [at] prxy.net>

 ... your instructor must be trying to save on lumber
> costs ... most flats are four by eight :)

Not at any theatre I worked at in 30 years in the
business.  Depending upon the size of the stage,
I would think that 10' or 12' flats were the norm.
I'm sure a 10' flat on a Broadway stage would be
quite undersized.

Of course, it all depends upon the design also.

Steve


------------------------------

Message-ID: <418978E6.2070806 [at] fuse.net>
Date: Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:33:42 -0500
From: Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net>
Subject: Re: Building Flats
References: <list-4887966 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-4887966 [at] prxy.net>

Matthew Breton wrote:

> Three feet by four feet ... your instructor must be trying to save on 
> lumber costs ... most flats are four by eight :)

That's silly!

Flats are as big as they can be as long as they are 
fractionally smaller than the loading doors to the theatre, 
and they can still be managed by the crew.

Sometimes flats are fractionally larger than the hallway 
between the loading doors and the stage, but that's a whole 
other story!

No, I have NO IDEA why (or how) that phone was removed from 
that wall.  ;-)

Stuart



------------------------------

From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1e0.2e61f468.2ebaf490 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:57:20 EST
Subject: Ground Terminology: was cold water ground

Original question:
>...cold water ground ...and how it helps  alleviate hum in sound?

One answer:
>Ground is the reference to  which all signal relates.  when there
>are two different grounds,  there are two different references.

Another answer:
>When we refer  to a ground loop, we usually mean that more  than one 
>return path  has been established. 

Another answer:
>Cheap and simple,  unbalanced audio systems are heavily dependent on the 
earth system.  
>These use the earth as one of the signal paths. Professional ones are  run 
as 
>balanced systems, where the earth is not in the signal  path.

Cold water ground, reference, return path, Earth....(and, in the  Nat'l 
Electric Code, 
Grounded and Grounding are two different  things)...Terminology is fun isn't 
it?  

In a former life, I did a  lot of audio work, including the design and 
installation of sound  
reinforcement and recording systems.  Then there was the former life in  
television where 
ground loops were visible as well as audible.  Then,  for some real 
excitement, see what happens 
when the lighting console at one  end of a facility has a significantly 
different ground 
potential than the  dimming system on the other end.  In lighting systems 
now, opto-isolators  
are highly recommended on the data links.
After a varied career dealing  with so much "folk knowledge" in our industry, 
I'm most 
interested now in  moving from "it worked before" voodoo to solid science and 
engineering  
principles. The recent posts on truss failure illustrate the concept.   There 
are a number 
of experts on rigging working in that area such as Bill S  and Shawn N. so 
I'll leave it to them 

The area I'm trying to move forward is Electricity.  Be it audio,  video, 
power feeders, 
or branch circuits the electrons all follow the same  basic laws.
Once we figure out how to talk about them, in a common language,  
and develop uniform standards based on them, 
and establish a personnel  certification baseline for our industry, 
I think the voodoo may diminish.  

I find that this list forum is a great place to get a cross section of  
viewpoints and 
occasional get a sense of what topics cause confusion.   
Thanks to all who chime in.  I learn something new  everyday.

Steve Vanciel
Orl, FL
 

------------------------------

Message-ID: <20041104050227.69637.qmail [at] web14105.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 21:02:27 -0800 (PST)
From: June Abernathy <jea00321 [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Numbering Stagecraft Digest Posts

On Nov 2, 2004, at 9:39 AM, Mark Harvey wrote:

> Would anyone else who takes Stagecraft as a digest
appreciate having 
> the messages numbered?  The messages are numbered in
the index at the 
> top of the page, but corresponding numbers do not
appear in the body 
> of the messages.  Message-Id is not information that
is particularly 
> helpful to me, but if it were possible, a Message
Number would be a 
> great time saver.

A bunch of us have asked about that. Yes, it would be
really good. It was one of the nice features of the
old list. Noah has said that it is difficult to do on
this new list for some reason, but I believe (hope)
he's still working on it.

June Abernathy
IATSE #321 (Tampa)
FOH Electrician
The Lion King National Tour (Gazelle)


		
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------------------------------

Message-ID: <$+tR5ODHTeiBFwrL [at] johnarro.karoo.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 08:13:59 +0000
From: John Arrowsmith <john [at] arrowsmith.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Way off-topic, but ...

Sorry, but couldn't resist this - just spotted it in my local Church of
England church's monthly magazine ...

A child, who'd misheard the Lord's Prayer, prayed
"... and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from emails ..."

John
--
www.rockchallenge.co.uk, THE adrenaline-laden anti-smoking / anti-
drunkenness anti-drugs-abuse performing-arts explosion that's got around
14,000 UK 11-to-18s hooked - they'll be on-stage / back-stage in 2005.

____________________________________________________________________________
This email and all attachments have been electronically scanned by Kingston
Communications' email Anti-Virus service and no known viruses were detected.
____________________________________________________________________________



------------------------------

From: "Matthew Breton" <theatricalmatt [at] hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Building Flats
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 03:32:38 -0500
Message-ID: <BAY14-F30bN2tEwLqJr00020e88 [at] hotmail.com>

>Depending upon the size of the stage, I would think that 10' or 12' flats 
>were the norm.
>I'm sure a 10' flat on a Broadway stage would be quite undersized.

Many theaters develop an inventory of stock flats which can be pulled, 
re-faced if necessary, and put together to make a set (or most of it). The 
size of the stock flats is going to vary, depending on the size of the 
stage; a larger proscenium opening will require a taller flat, and, as 
another poster noted, there are also load-in considerations of

I offered that most flats are 4x8 because that's generally the same size as 
the facing material (and let's not start that discussion again...)  You can 
make oversized flats by adding a header piece to a standard flat, though you 
develop problems in stiffness, seam lines, and weight-bearing capacity as 
the overall size increases.

Since the original poster mentioned the flat was being built for an academic 
program, I found the size he gave quite unusual. Many instructors start with 
a standard 4 x 8 flat, because building it addresses some issues (basic 
screwgun technique, making joints, attaching facing), while not getting into 
some of the complications (cutting luaun to size, lining up grains, seaming 
joints). You gotta crawl before you can walk, sometimes.

Which complications you would run into, of course, when building a 3 x 4 
flat ... which is more like an insert for a window than an actual flat. Or 
maybe it's just an sized for an off-off-off-off-off-off-Broadway house?  :)


Matthew Breton
Stage Manager
Shakespeare Now!

_________________________________________________________________
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and 
more! http://special.msn.com/msn/election2004.armx


------------------------------

Message-ID: <20041104061141.31052.qmail [at] web40706.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2004 22:11:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Wych <a_small_idiot [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Select paint area on drop- UPDATE
In-Reply-To: <list-4751401 [at] prxy.net>

Well, just yo update you on what we did.  The set
designer decided that the super sharp line wasnt what
she wanted we ended up just cutting the moon space out
of luan and laying it ontop of the drop with some
stage weights on it while we painted with the supersat
on top of it and around it.  It seemed to work for
what we wanted.
http://theatretechie.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Misc&id=DSCF1040
<--- shows a picture of the drop during the drying
period. (its the one at the top.) Once the show opens
and we get the drop hung in the space (actually the
shop since were using that for part of the set/show)
Ill add pics of it with the lights and such.

Thanks for all the suggestions

Chris Wych
--- Paul Guncheon <paul.guncheon [at] verizon.net> wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> <<The problem comes in masking the moon (there are
> some
> other small areas too) so that when I paint the rest
> of the drop with thin supersat that it doesnt blead
> into the area of the moon.  >>
> 
> Honestly never tried it but my first thought would
> be to checkout batiking
> techniques, i.e. outlining the blank spaces with hot
> wax using a tjanting.
> 
> http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1631-AA.shtml
> 
> Please let the list know how you finally do it...
> what worked and what
> didn't.
> 
> Laters,
> 
> Paul
> 
> "I know all the wherefores," said Tom wisely.
> 
> 


=====
IL State U. Theatre Student 
a_small_idiot [at] yahoo.com 
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ 
My Theatre Techie Sites: 
Links- http://www.theatretechie.com 
Webpage- http://members.aol.com/CPWTCH007/tech.html 
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~



		
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End of Stagecraft Digest #185
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