Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.6) with PIPE id 4979212; Thu, 11 Nov 2004 03:00:45 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.6 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #192 Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 03:00:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.1 (2004-10-22) on prxy.net X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, URIBL_SBL autolearn=ham version=3.0.1 X-Spam-Level: X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #192 1. Re: theatrical architecture by Steve Larson 2. Re: theatrical architecture by Barney Simon 3. Re: C-Clamps and drops by "Ken Mark" 4. Re: theatrical architecture by Barney Simon 5. Speaker advice by "Tom Hackman" 6. Re: Speaker advice by "Jonathan S. Deull" 7. Re: Flash Card cheers by Mark O'Brien 8. Re: Flash Card cheers by "Immel,Patrick" 9. Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts by Stephen Litterst 10. Re: Flash Card cheers by MissWisc [at] aol.com 11. Re: DMX issues and a VL2202 question by "Fitch, Tracy" 12. Re: Flash Card cheers by Greg Bierly 13. Re: C-Clamps and drops by "Mike Rock" 14. Re: Speaker advice by Charlie Richmond 15. Re: 10 biggest mistakes by Greg Bierly 16. Re: 10 biggest mistakes by Charlie Richmond 17. Re: DMX issues and a VL2202 question by Greg Bierly 18. Re: DMX issues and a VL2202 question by Dale Farmer 19. Re: Flash Card cheers by "Immel,Patrick" 20. Re: Flash Card cheers by Greg Bierly 21. Re: Audio operation in the audience space (was 10 biggest mistakes) by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 22. Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts by Michael Heinicke 23. Re: Hoffend Vortek by "Shawn Nolan" 24. Re: 10 biggest mistakes by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 25. Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts by Wood Chip-P26398 26. Re: 10 biggest mistakes by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 27. Re: 10 biggest mistakes by Stephen Litterst 28. Safetied gel frames (was: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts) by Michael Heinicke 29. Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts by "Tony Deeming" 30. Re: 10 biggest mistakes by Greg Bierly 31. Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts by Wood Chip-P26398 32. Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts by Dale Farmer 33. Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts by Stephen Litterst 34. Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts by "Michael Feinberg" 35. Radio Shack Egrips by Greg Bierly 36. Re: Safetied gel frames (was: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts) by "Mike Rock" 37. Re: 10 biggest mistakes by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 38. Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 39. Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 40. Re: Radio Shack Egrips by "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" 41. Re: Speaker advice by Scott Parker 42. Re: Radio Shack Egrips by Scott Parker 43. Re: Speaker advice by Charlie Richmond 44. What's that light? by Noah Price 45. Re: 10 biggest mistakes by Mike Benonis 46. Re: What's that light? by Richard Bakos 47. Re: Audio operation in the audience space (was 10 biggest mistakes) by "Andy Leviss" 48. Re: What's that light? by Mark O'Brien 49. Re: What's that light? by "Jon Ares" 50. Re: Audio operation in the audience space (was 10 biggest mistakes) by John Bracewell 51. Re: What's that light? by Mark O'Brien 52. Re: What's that light? by Richard Niederberg 53. The magic by MissWisc [at] aol.com 54. Re: What's that light? by Noah Price 55. Re: The magic by "Paul" 56. Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts by "Tony Deeming" 57. Re: What's that light? by "Tony Deeming" 58. Re: The magic by "Tony Deeming" 59. Re: The magic by Charlie Richmond *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:45:50 -0500 Subject: Re: theatrical architecture From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Your explanation is clear to me. It seems that some of the listers are having a terrible time understanding. When I taught in New Orleans, my advanced tech class was assigned to take a space and create a found-space performing venue. In New Orleans, most of the smaller theatre groups had to find a space to perform in. While these students were not architects, they could at least conceptualize the various needs for such a space. With various known codes and the help of Elder's book, they were able to stir up a few gray cells and most created spaces that were conducive to performance. Later in a scenic design class they were required to design for such a space. They built models of their space and later their set. In reality, they would have to work with an architect and city inspectors to accomplish the end result. The students appreciated the project and based on instructor evaluations liked the challenge. I would do it again. on 11/9/04 5:24 PM, K. Daly at KDaly973 [at] comcast.net wrote: I seem to be having a terrible time explaining the concept. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41921BCF.7010708 [at] JosephCHansen.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:46:55 -0500 From: Barney Simon Subject: Re: theatrical architecture References: In-Reply-To: Moore, Martin W. wrote: >Prestigious architects etc. continue to screw up theatres. There's a >new one round the corner from me - Skirball in NYU's Kimmel Center, >where, for one example, the front of house circulation is a nightmare. > I've passed on your note to my wife the Operations Director at the theatre in question, and she may have more later; she has great insight into the dynamics between "theatre consultant" and "client." She was hired about six months before the actual opening of the space to complete the fitting out (the consultants knew that specifying technologies such as the light board 6 yrs ahead of time was foolhardy). But my recollection of the issues is that the school felt the "theatre consultant" was looking out for the production worthiness of the space, and the consultant felt the school knew what they wanted/needed, and therefore did not communicate as well as they should; and neither felt like walking over to the Tisch School for the Arts Theatre Program and asking them their ideas. And that hs nothing to do with the mentioned FOH issue. Barney Simon J C Hansen Company Drape, Drops, and Dance Floors ------------------------------ From: "Ken Mark" Subject: Re: C-Clamps and drops Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:48:21 -0500 Message-ID: Message-ID: <003f01c4c679$7a4cea20$80fea8c0 [at] Fred> From: "Mike Rock" References: Subject: Re: C-Clamps and drops Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 10:30:51 -0600 >While the details are a bit shaded, I think we clamped the drop to itself, >and used the c-clamps with some boards to sandwich it. Mike, Let us know how it worked out for you folks in the end. Break a leg! Two things to remember, " Production is a Team Sport" and "Ours is not to reason why, Ours is but to put Horse Shoes on Camels". Kenneth Mark Production Rentals Manager 439 County Route 45 Argyle, NY 12809 VOX: 518/761-3360 FAX: 518/761-3361 Mobile: 518/222-7750 On the Web at: www.adirondackscenic.com (under re-construction!!!) Visit the Production Rental On-Line Photo Album at: http://photos.yahoo.com/asikenmark or www.geocities.com/asikenmark ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41921E19.8020907 [at] JosephCHansen.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 08:56:41 -0500 From: Barney Simon Subject: Re: theatrical architecture References:

In-Reply-To: Jerry Durand wrote: > With access for LARGE items. Doors that can actually be used, etc. This reminds me of when they built the Javits Center here in NYC to replace the coliseum, the biggest $ show at the time was the boat show. But I M Pei did not provide doors big enough to get the bigger boats into the hall. Barney Simon J C Hansen Co. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <007e01c4c72d$f7e5e130$87d11ed8 [at] Hackman1> From: "Tom Hackman" References: Subject: Speaker advice Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:02:46 -0500 Hello all: Let me preface this by saying that I am not a sound guy. My dept. chair informs me that we have stumbled across a little money recently. Among other things, I would like to see us replace our current speakers. Our existing units are monstrously large antiques that we seem to have a hard time finding replacement parts for. What I am looking for is 2 decent quality speakers for mostly playback and effects and the occasional reinforcement (we don't do many musicals). I am running a Mackie CFX board and a Crown 400CE amp. We are dealing with a 40' x 60' multi-form space with bricks walls and a wooden floor. Any thoughts? I don't have a figure on how much we can spend just yet. What I am looking for is pointers on what I should be looking for in terms of speaker specs. Thanks in advance, Tom Hackman TD Davis & Elkins College Elkins, WV 26241 304-637-5802 ------------------------------ From: "Jonathan S. Deull" Subject: RE: Speaker advice Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:11:24 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We really like the JBL Control series. Comes in a variety of sizes, good for architectural install or temporary use, really clean sound, reasonable prices. Jonathan Deull Edmund Burke School -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Tom Hackman Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:03 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Speaker advice For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Hello all: Let me preface this by saying that I am not a sound guy. My dept. chair informs me that we have stumbled across a little money recently. Among other things, I would like to see us replace our current speakers. Our existing units are monstrously large antiques that we seem to have a hard time finding replacement parts for. What I am looking for is 2 decent quality speakers for mostly playback and effects and the occasional reinforcement (we don't do many musicals). I am running a Mackie CFX board and a Crown 400CE amp. We are dealing with a 40' x 60' multi-form space with bricks walls and a wooden floor. Any thoughts? I don't have a figure on how much we can spend just yet. What I am looking for is pointers on what I should be looking for in terms of speaker specs. Thanks in advance, Tom Hackman TD Davis & Elkins College Elkins, WV 26241 304-637-5802 ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien) From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: Flash Card cheers Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:14:34 -0700 When I was working on lifts for a half-time show, I found it interesting how the "card people" in the production office took the graphic that they wanted to work with, and lowered the resolution so that 1 pixel = 1 card. It was then numbered on a seating chart for use. Mark O'Brien Opera Technical Director University of Arizona, School of Music Tucson, AZ 520/621-7025 520/591-1803 Mobile On Nov 9, 2004, at 7:17 PM, Dale Farmer wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > "richard j. archer" wrote: > >> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >> >> --------------------------------------------------- >> >> Listmembers; >> >> Not seemingly much to do with theatre (or so you might think) but >> does anyone out there know what the size is of the cards are that are >> used at football games when a whole section of fans use the cards to >> form pictures?? At various times and places called Coordinated card >> stunts and cheering , or Flash Card Cheering Sections, or by some >> other name. Thanks. >> >> Dick A >> TD, Cornell U > > While the dimensions vary from venue to venue, you basically want > a square that is the same size as the footprint of each seat, less a > couple > of inches for ease of handling. So if you have seats that are 30 > inches > wide ( center to center ) and the rows are every 36 inches, then a card > about 28 x 32 inches. > This also depends on your viewing angle. The above example is for > a blimp or helicopter shot. If you intend the cards to be seen by the > players on the field or the people sitting in the opposite stands, you > want to use the rise between each row, rather than the distance between > each row as the controlling measure if vertical card dimension. > > --Dale > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <147CF8DFB9C5D41187300001FA7EE390237E2AFF [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu> From: "Immel,Patrick" Subject: RE: Flash Card cheers Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:02:07 -0600 > -----Original Message----- > From: MissWisc [at] aol.com [mailto:MissWisc [at] aol.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 9:48 PM > Some stadiums have pie-shaped sections that might need > trapezoid shaped cards if accuracy is needed. Just as in > theatres, stadium seats may vary in size from 17-23" (appx > 45-60 CM for our metric friends). Is there bench seating? I think when you are dealing with HUGE stadiums, if there is an inch...or six...between cards, it is not going to be noticeable. > Where will the cards be stored/how will they be distributed? At the game I went to, the cards were taped to the top of the bench. There was a little diagram showing where my particular piece was going to fit into the whole image. I got to the game early when they were just finishing up taping out the cards. All the workers had was a photocopy of the seating layout with colored markers denoting which sections got which cards...pretty simple. > Lots of variables. In general, you'd need something with an > inch or two around the edges for fingers to fit and would > want a card that is printed then wax coated to protect from > small amounts of moisture. > > Kristi > My card was red and it was red from edge to edge. Like I said earlier in a huge stadium (Memorial stadium seats around 77k), that if your fingers are covering a bit of the image/card, its never going to show! Regarding card coating, they were just plain glossy paper...much like posters. Pat ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:42:23 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts Message-id: <419236DF.31128126 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: June Abernathy wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > And, I have a "lightspeed wrench", which is one of > those commercial theatrical versions Jim refers to. > Basically a ratcheting box ended wrench with offset > ends, made for theatrical use. I like it - I use it > alot. Half the time the nut in > question doesn't fit my wrench. Annoying to discover > mid focus, so now, I don't even try most of the time. After my "lightspeed wrench" disappeared, I've rediscovered the joy of the "Mega Handle" wrench. Occasionally known as a "Barbizon Wrench" (Barbizon gave them out as swag before they caught on) it's about 2" long and can fit every bolt and nut on a Source4, Altman or PARCan. I keep mine on a leash around my wrist (no more long leash to my belt!) during hang. Because of the small size it's difficult to overtighten any bolt, you just don't have the torque. The downside is that if someone has overtightened, you don't have the torque to loosen it. Like the assorted speed wrenches, the Mega-Handle doesn't eliminate the need to carry an adjustable wrench with you. You'll still need that trusty C wrench for cheseboros, rota-locks and whatnot. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <12d.4f06c234.2ec391c2 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 10:46:10 EST Subject: Re: Re: Flash Card cheers Cc: PIMMEL [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu Good points, Pat! I wasn't thinking about the fingers being seen, but that there would need to be enough space between the card edges for fingers to fit. Were you in "seats" or on "benches"? Kristi ------------------------------ Subject: RE: DMX issues and a VL2202 question Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:08:05 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Fitch, Tracy" Any chance that the problem happens when you're saving to or loading from disk? I know from previous experience that the dmx output speed drops on the express (so probably also on the expression 3) when disk access is ongoing. According to tech service it is still within the range in the DMX specification, but it drops way down to the low end of the range. > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Mike > Burnett > THE PROBLEM > At some point in a run-through, the lights on DMX 3 start to wig out. > The moving lights move by themselves, panning and tilting all over the > place, running through colors and gobos, and changing intensities. The > lights on the lightronic packs start random flashing. The strobe > randomly flashes. ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: Flash Card cheers Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:59:11 -0500 > does anyone out there know what the size is of the cards are that are > used at football games when a whole section of fans use the cards to > form pictures?? I found a set under the steps of the theater in college that I dug out and passed out to the marching band. IIRC they were [at] 4' square. They basically worked. If you want a totally solid picture you need to factor in the size of the bleachers they will be used on. If it is a broad enough picture and you can get away with some gaps, 36" to 48" square should be plenty. Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001f01c4c746$f47ae770$80fea8c0 [at] Fred> From: "Mike Rock" References: Subject: Re: C-Clamps and drops Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:01:43 -0600 We ended up attaching another pipe five feet above the batten, works great. could have gotten away with about six and a half before we would hit the head blocks but we did not have ladders tall enough to attach it then. Works great. Mike ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:08:11 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Speaker advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Tom Hackman wrote: > What I am looking for is pointers on what I should be looking for in terms > of speaker specs. I recommend you join the theatre-sound list and ask this question there...: http://www.brooklyn.com/theatre-sound/index.html Good luck! Charlie + Charlie Richmond - Richmond Sound Design Ltd - Aura Show Control Ltd + + http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com -- http://www.AuraShowControl.com + +---- "Performance for the Long Run" ----- "Creativity in Control" ----+ ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <8A591323-333C-11D9-9F35-000D936BFA94 [at] dejazzd.com> From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: 10 biggest mistakes Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:18:29 -0500 > > Why? At rehearsal, the levels will have been set by the designer, and > documented. Why do you presume to override the decisions of the SD and > the director? > Ever heard of audience noise. Unless you have a perfect house what about that passing truck, plane, or helicopter or for that matter the HVAC turning on. Not impossible to compensate for in a booth but easier I would think sound operation is a bit less "by the numbers" than lighting. I would think an op in the booth running the SFX and cues (and possibly muting unused mic channels) on headset while having an op in the house running mic levels and master playback levels listening to the room would be the best of both worlds. Obviously this would only be on a complex show. Just my opinion. Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:29:25 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: 10 biggest mistakes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Greg Bierly wrote: > I would think an op in the booth running the SFX and cues (and possibly > muting unused mic channels) on headset while having an op in the house > running mic levels and master playback levels listening to the room would be > the best of both worlds. Obviously this would only be on a complex show. In the 70s and early 80s when tape decks were the way to do playback, this is what I preached routinely but few facilities went that direction because of operating cost, primarily. Now, it is easily possible for a single op in the house to do 'everything' depending on the complexity of the show and the level of computerisation of the system.... In really complex shows, the sound op is frequently the show control (not 'automation' - which is rigging only) operator but often gets relegated to the booth because of their need to concentrate on the technology rather than the show - again, running costs are the reason usually given... Charlie ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: DMX issues and a VL2202 question Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:33:25 -0500 > It seems the worst when > the wireless mics are on (we have 19 UHF wireless mics in the show) or > when the pit is playing (no wireless there). No DMX is running through > the sound snakes, it is all isolated. Any ideas? Short in a cable? Are your DMX lines running in the same conduit as speaker or audio lines? I have had DMX appear in audio channels in the past in adjacent wire. It is unlikely but something to look at. Possibly a break in the DMX shielding in one of your runs. Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41925134.2D2157C6 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:34:44 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: DMX issues and a VL2202 question References: Mike Burnett wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I'm 1 day from opening and having a fit with some DMX. I have no idea > what to try next, so if any of you have some suggestions, I am ready to > try anything. > > THE SETUP > Expression 3 console > DMX 1 - daisy chain to house EDI dimmers and lightronic dimmer packs, > terminator > DMX 2 - to Martin Mac 600s, terminator > DMX 3 - daisy chain of lightronic dimmer packs, VL2202, Diversitronics > strobe, and Martin Mac 500s, terminator > > THE PROBLEM > At some point in a run-through, the lights on DMX 3 start to wig out. > The moving lights move by themselves, panning and tilting all over the > place, running through colors and gobos, and changing intensities. The > lights on the lightronic packs start random flashing. The strobe > randomly flashes. > > This will continue for 30-60 seconds. Sometimes we turn off the console > and it fixes itself. Sometimes it fixes itself on its own. This > evening's dress was all over the place, with it happening about 10 times > in a 2 hour show. Recheck all the DMX cable, ensure it is actual DMX cable, not microphone cable pressed into service. Wiggle every connector to see if there is a bad connector with an intermittent short or open. Verify that the terminators are off in the in-between things, and that the terminator is on and good on the last device. What is the total cable length on the string? Unplug and check all the connectors, checking for damage or corrosion. Check for ground loops on the DMX cable shield. Unplug the cable with lights and everything else normally turned on as during the problem times, and check for voltage between the ground pins of the connectors. Your sound person can help you with this. Shorten the DMX chain and try to isolate the problem to certain devices or cable segments. Does the cable run next to RFI sources? Variable speed motors, computers, fluorescent light fixtures, copy machines, laser printers, elevator motors, metal and plastic welding machines, microwave ovens, and many others. Try rerouting the cable away from the source, even only a few feet help. Good luck. Chasing intermittent faults is one of the most frustrating and time consuming tasks out there. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <147CF8DFB9C5D41187300001FA7EE390237E2B45 [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu> From: "Immel,Patrick" Subject: RE: Re: Flash Card cheers Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:36:40 -0600 > -----Original Message----- > From: MissWisc [at] aol.com [mailto:MissWisc [at] aol.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 9:46 AM > To: PIMMEL [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu; stagecraft [at] theatrical.net > Subject: Re: Re: Flash Card cheers > > Good points, Pat! > > I wasn't thinking about the fingers being seen, but that > there would need to be enough space between the card edges > for fingers to fit. > > Were you in "seats" or on "benches"? > > Kristi > Very tightly packed bleachers!! Though not as tightly packed as Lambeau field gets! Pat Immel Northwest Missouri State University UW-Oshkosh Alum Rabid Packer Phan ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: <1894AAE8-333F-11D9-9F35-000D936BFA94 [at] dejazzd.com> From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: Flash Card cheers Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:36:47 -0500 OSX mail is giving me problems. sorry for the multiple sigs. I am working on it. ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1e5.2eff52df.2ec3b923 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:34:11 EST Subject: Re: Audio operation in the audience space (was 10 biggest mistakes) In a message dated 10/11/04 02:48:31 GMT Standard Time, jbrace [at] lightlink.com writes: > And as a sound score designer, I still say that I > want my operator in the same space as the audience. Yes, I set levels in > tech, but as others have pointed out, performances and audiences change > from night to night. I want my operator to learn what I want to hear and > to feel empowered to adjust as needed in order to accomplish that goal from > night to night. No, I don't want the operator to change the timing of the > cues or to make a radical alteration in level, but I do want the level to > match the intensity of the performance as each performance varies. This depends, to some extent, on the director. I designed and operated one show when I tried to do it your way. Not, to be sure, from the auditorium, but using a high quality monitoring feed from the microphones which feed our deaf aid system to ride the levels. After every performance, I got my head in a sling because the director believed the levels were different from those we had set at the tech. What I normally do, after the tech, is to sit in the auditorium and to listen, and to judge the sound picture and to make adjustments. I specialise in backgrounds: seawash, birds singing, traffic noise, wind and rain, and so on. I think it important that they are present, but never obtrusive. If you ever do Ariel Dorfman's "Death and the Maiden", you will see what I mean. It's set, for the most part, in a seaside house, and the sea needs a constant presence, but the last scene is in a concert hall, before, during, and after the interval. Add in to that a thrust stage and an amphitheatre auditorium, and you will see problems. I believe that every seat in the house should have a good sound picture, although I can't promise them all quite the same one. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41925FA2.6030509 [at] sbcglobal.net> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 12:36:18 -0600 From: Michael Heinicke Reply-To: mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts References: In-Reply-To: June Abernathy wrote: > Safeties for the color? Well, I've never seen it done, Our house has safties on all gel frames on all the FOH fixtures. These are 5 and 10 degree Source 4's that are roughly 80' over audience (and sound pit) heads, with nothing to catch them otherwise. Not just the audience, but also the consideration of dropping that large of a frame onto the sound board or sticking the corner of a frame into one of the seats... Mike H ------------------------------ From: "Shawn Nolan" Subject: Re: Hoffend Vortek Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:45:19 -0500 Message-ID: (very, very long...) I'm not sure when this thread started (I looked back through posts from the last week or so), I think it is the continuation of a thread that started a few months back... First, it must be remembered that the Hoffend Vortek (or any similar system) would place lateral loads on some of the building structural steel. For the Vortek system, the lateral loads are different than in a conventional counterweight rig but, at least some of them are still there. Using Vortek would reduce the lateral forces acting on some of the system support beams; specifically, the two beams that support the Vortek winch unit. Bill is correct in stating that these beams function as the headblock beams. The forces are reduced due to the fact that the first two "loft blocks" are contained within the unit itself. The lateral forces acting on these two internal loft blocks have not vanished, they are just resolved within the structure of the winch housing itself. Consequently, these loads are not transferred into the building structure. However, the lateral loads from the "outboard" loft blocks must be resisted by the building structure. Looking at a conventional counterweight set-up: For example, say we have a 6 line system. Say the lines are 1 foot on center. -- For ease of comparison, say the load on all lines is equal. -- Say the load is 250 pounds/line or 1500 pounds/set. -- Looking at the forces acting at any one loft block: The horizontal force and the vertical force acting on the loft block are both 250 pounds. At the risk of pointing out the obvious, the force in a wire rope supporting a load is the same anywhere along the rope (neglecting friction and sheave groove forces, looking at "pure tension" only). So, for a loft block, the horizontal component and the vertical component are the same. (see the section below for more about the "vector sum" of these forces) WARNING WARNING WARNING THE FOLLOWING IS A VERY PEDANTIC AND BORING EXERCISE REGARDING VECTOR FORCES AND THE 1.414 MULTIPLIER THAT I GOT SIDETRACKED THINKING ABOUT WHEN I GOT LOST IN MY VERY ANAL ENGINEERING MINDSET........... PERUSE AT THE RISK OF NODDING OFF AND FALLING FACE FIRST ONTO YOUR KEYBOARD..... It is true that the resultant (the combined vector force ...the "1.414" multiplier mentioned by Delbert) is the vector sum of the horizontal and vertical forces. The vector sum is useful for a variety of analysis issues (the maximum force acting on the sheave shaft, for example) but, us structural guys usually like to look at orthogonal forces (I just love to use them there fancy words); in other words, the forces acting along the X, Y or Z axis (X and Z being horizontal and vertical respectively in our problem). Here's the math for the vector sum (ignoring the direction of the forces, which is ESSENTIAL in a real world analysis...) -- Let R = the resultant force acting at any one loft block -- Let P = the typical force acting on any one line -- R = the square root of [( P squared ) + ( P squared )] (this is also sometimes described as "the square root of the sum of the squares") -- For our example... R = the square root of [(250 squared) + (250 squared)] = 353.55 Here's the derivation of the 1.414 multiplier that Delbert mentioned. -- There are a couple of ways to look at this: vector algebra and trigonometry. Vector algebra, while it manages the direction of the forces, is a bit of a pain in the a** so, I'll take the coward's way out and use trig. -- The "square root of the sum of the squares" basically give you the hypotenuse of a right triangle. -- This can be derived from the Pythagorean theorem, which most of us know as [(A squared) + (B squared)] = (C squared). -- For any right triangle, (Hypotenuse) = (Adjacent Side) / (Cosine of the Included Angle). -- Since we have a right triangle with equal sides (the horizontal and vertical forces are equal) we know that the angle in question is 45 degrees. -- The cosine of 45 degrees is 0.7071. -- For our example... Hypotenuse = 250 / 0.7071 = 353.55 -- Rearranging this equation... (353.55 / 250) = (1 / 0.7071) -- Now... Solve for... (1 / 0.7071) = 1.414 1.414 is also the square root of 2, which is what you get for the hypotenuse of a right triangle whose opposite and adjacent sides have a length equal to 1... You can also find the resultant from graphical vector algebra. Draw the forces to scale, arrange the forces so that the vector arrows are "tip to tail" in order. Draw the resultant and measure with your scale rule. If your drafting is accurate, this is a very good method. WE NOW RETURN YOU TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED THREAD... -- Since we have 6 lines, we have six times our 250 pound line force acting horizontally at the headblock. -- The headblock beam (for a very conventional arrangement) has to be designed for this horizontal force. Obviously, it also has to be designed for the vertical force and any other forces acting on it. -- Since the headblock beam is usually a "clear span" beam, both horizontally and vertically, it results in a pretty big piece of steel. Now, taking a look at the Vortek: Say, again, that the number of lines and the load is the same as for our conventional system example. Once again, say the lines are one foot on center. Taking a look at the forces (LOOKING AT ONE VORTEK UNIT ONLY!!!) [NOTE: I will call the loft blocks that are attached to the Vortek "inboard" and the loft blocks that are located on loft block beam away from the winch unit "outboard"] -- There are 4 outboard loft blocks. -- Each outboard loft block has a 250 pound horizontal component acting on it. -- 4 x 250 = 1000 -- This 1000 pound horizontal force is pulling sideways on the winch unit. Remember that the beams supporting the winch unit are "acting like headblock beams". -- So, the loft block beams supporting the outboard blocks (all things being equal with the conventional system) see the same horizontal design loads as for the conventional system. This would mean that the outboard loft block beams would have to be designed to resist a horizontal force of 250 pounds / foot (along with the vertical force and any other forces, from the roof for example). -- And, the 2 loft block beams supporting the winch unit would have to resist a combined horizontal force TO RESIST THE FORCES FROM THE OUTBOARD LOFT BLOCKS! This would be a combined horizontal force of 1000 pounds / foot (once again, obviously, combined with vertical forces...). The result of this informal analysis shows that you have to pay attention to the lateral forces, they don't go away! NOW, ONE VERY BIG CAVEAT REGARDING THE VORTEK SYSTEM OR SIMILAR SYSTEMS!!! My informal analysis is a reasonable starting point IF ALL OF THE VORTEK UNITS ARE LOCATED ON THE SAME SIDE OF THE STAGE! Hoffend indicates that the units can be "staggered" with half of the winch units stageright and half stageleft. This may EITHER HELP OR HURT THE DESIGN OF THE STEEL DEPENDING ON THE STRUCTURAL STRENGTH OF THE WINCH FRAME AND ASSUMPTIONS MADE BY THE BUILDING DESIGNER. Things can get a bit complicated here so, bear with me. If the units are staggered, forces acting on the loft block beams are THEORETICALLY equal and opposite. This potentially results is a balanced condition, which COULD minimize the size of the beams to resist horizontal forces. However, it is essential to remember that loads on different linesets are almost never equal at any one point in time! Especially not throughout the entire stagehouse, except when all of the battens are empty! An incorrect assumption about the "design load cases" that does not consider the worst case for the "staggered" system (every other line fully loaded, with the alternate lines empty) CAN RESULT IN AN INADEQUATE AND DANGEROUS DESIGN!!!!! So, this is definitely NOT a reason to avoid Vortek or other similar systems. It is just a reminder that all of the forces acting on the building structure have to be carefully considered. Whew! Glad I got THAT out of my system! Shawn Shawn Nolan, P.E. Entertainment Structures Group A Division of Steven Schaefer Associates 10411 Medallion Drive, Suite 121 Cincinnati, OH 45241 (513) 699-2571 direct line (513) 542-3300 main line (513) 542-5540 fax (513) 706-3125 mobile Shawn.Nolan [at] EntertainmentStructures.com Check out our new website! www.EntertainmentStructures.com ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:39:18 EST Subject: Re: 10 biggest mistakes In a message dated 10/11/04 03:03:36 GMT Standard Time, mbenonis_lists [at] mac.com writes: > My biggest problem with our theatre is a poorly designed wireless system > that is inflexible and not expandable. Therefore, we have to place > receivers in the back stage area, which leads to the second biggest problem: > not enough microphone ports in the backstage area. We have seven ports > backstage, and six in front of the stage - that's really helpful when you > have 9+ things backstage to plug in! Why do you have to place receivers backstage? Surely the wireless system will reach to the booth. OK, these can sometimes have problems, but I should have thought that juggling the aerial locations would solve them. These then feed to the receivers down RF co-axial cable. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: Wood Chip-P26398 Subject: RE: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 11:45:59 -0700 I hope you didn't mean JUST the FOH frames, or don't you consider actors to be worthy of that protection. Since most of the vibrations, shaking, and brushing of backstage drapes occur during the show by actors (dancers, musicians), I would think that backstage deserves even more safeties. -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Michael Heinicke June Abernathy wrote: > Safeties for the color? Well, I've never seen it done, Our house has safties on all gel frames on all the FOH fixtures. ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <6.37ce7a9f.2ec3bf08 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:59:20 EST Subject: Re: 10 biggest mistakes In a message dated 10/11/04 17:19:07 GMT Standard Time, gbierly [at] dejazzd.com writes: > Ever heard of audience noise. Unless you have a perfect house what > about that passing truck, plane, or helicopter or for that matter the > HVAC turning on. Not impossible to compensate for in a booth but > easier I would think sound operation is a bit less "by the numbers" > than lighting. It is, but if your HVAC system makes obtrusive noise, it needs replaced. > I would think an op in the booth running the SFX and cues (and possibly > muting unused mic channels) on headset while having an op in the house > running mic levels and master playback levels listening to the room > would be the best of both worlds. Obviously this would only be on a > complex show. Well, if unused microphone channels are not muted, shall I just say that you don't know what you are doing. Not possibly, certainly! I don't believe in having sound personnel on headphones. They need to hear what is going on. Nor do I believe in two people trying to set the levels. Each will have their own view. If these diverge, there will be trouble. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:06:55 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: 10 biggest mistakes Message-id: <419266CF.A3AAB492 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 10/11/04 17:19:07 GMT Standard Time, gbierly [at] dejazzd.com > writes: > > > Ever heard of audience noise. Unless you have a perfect house what > > about that passing truck, plane, or helicopter or for that matter the > > HVAC turning on. Not impossible to compensate for in a booth but > > easier I would think sound operation is a bit less "by the numbers" > > than lighting. > > It is, but if your HVAC system makes obtrusive noise, it needs replaced. Well, I sure wish I lived in your world. We've been trying to deal with our HVAC system for years (about 31, right John?) but it's a little hard to come up with the money to replace the HVAC for an entire building. Especially when the folks in charge of the HVAC system think it works just fine. > Well, if unused microphone channels are not muted, shall I just say that you > don't know what you are doing. Not possibly, certainly! Frank, I normally just let you go, but I have to step in this time. In mixing a live performance, microphones are not used constantly and as such need to be muted and unmuted throughout the performance. You wouldn't want us to leave Javert's mic live while he slipped off to the loo, would you? More subtly, you don't want Javert's mic live while Valjean is singing. Steve Litterst -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <419266D0.8070209 [at] sbcglobal.net> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:06:56 -0600 From: Michael Heinicke Reply-To: mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net Subject: Safetied gel frames (was: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts) References: In-Reply-To: Actually, yes they are only on FOH fixtures. They aren't there so much to catch the frames if they fall out of the fixtures (unlikely to happen) as to catch them if an electrician drops a frame during a changeover (when there shouldn't be audience in the house anyway...). The fixtures over stage are brought to the deck to work on, so there is minimal danger from a dropped frame at that point. As far as if actors are worthy of protection, I would say it depends on the actor. ;) Seriously though, yes they are. We follow the industry standard practice of a safety on the fixture itself but not on the gel frame on the units over the stage. Mike H Wood Chip-P26398 wrote: > I hope you didn't mean JUST the FOH frames, or don't you consider actors to be worthy of that protection. Since most of the vibrations, shaking, and brushing of backstage drapes occur during the show by actors (dancers, musicians), I would think that backstage deserves even more safeties. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Michael Heinicke > > June Abernathy wrote: > >>Safeties for the color? Well, I've never seen it done, > > > > Our house has safties on all gel frames on all the FOH fixtures. > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002d01c4c75d$0ebfe700$82a72ad9 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:39:53 -0000 Hmmm.... I would venture that if there's a frame that has ANY potential for falling out all on it's lonesome, then it's either a cheap & nasty fixture or the frame's been fitted wrongly! Ynot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wood Chip-P26398" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 6:45 PM Subject: Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I hope you didn't mean JUST the FOH frames, or don't you consider actors to be worthy of that protection. Since most of the vibrations, shaking, and brushing of backstage drapes occur during the show by actors (dancers, musicians), I would think that backstage deserves even more safeties. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Michael Heinicke > > June Abernathy wrote: > > Safeties for the color? Well, I've never seen it done, > > > Our house has safties on all gel frames on all the FOH fixtures. > ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: 10 biggest mistakes Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:51:05 -0500 > Well, if unused microphone channels are not muted, shall I just say > that you > don't know what you are doing. Not possibly, certainly! I am saying the person in the booth can keep their head in the script and only unmute the mics as needed. 30 open mics is tough for one high school students to handle on our larger shows. Not to say I haven't had some talented ones over the years, I do get lucky every once and a while. > > I don't believe in having sound personnel on headphones. > They need to hear what is going on. The person in the house running levels wouldn't have headphones on. > Nor do I believe in two people trying to set the levels. Each > will have their own view. If these diverge, there will be trouble. If as you said, the levels are scripted, the person in the booth would not be adjusting the volume only setting it for the preapproved level. The house op would only have control over the master playback level and could adjust accordingly from a preset "house" level. > > > Frank Wood I essentially do this presently but with two sound ops at the house position (no booth) for our larger musical productions. One runs sfx playback, watches the script and is on headset while the other only runs levels. Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: Wood Chip-P26398 Subject: RE: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 13:00:35 -0700 And these things never occur? Never underestimate a fool. -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Tony Deeming I would venture that if there's a frame that has ANY potential for falling out all on it's lonesome, then it's either a cheap & nasty fixture or the frame's been fitted wrongly! ------------------------------ Message-ID: <419275E0.856B092C [at] cybercom.net> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:11:12 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts References:

Tony Deeming wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Hmmm.... > > I would venture that if there's a frame that has ANY potential for falling > out all on it's lonesome, then it's either a cheap & nasty fixture or the > frame's been fitted wrongly! > > Ynot Or someone on a loadin hung the fixture upside down. --Dale ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:15:39 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts Message-id: <419276EB.36DF8233 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References:

Dale Farmer wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > > Tony Deeming wrote: > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > Hmmm.... > > > > I would venture that if there's a frame that has ANY potential for falling > > out all on it's lonesome, then it's either a cheap & nasty fixture or the > > frame's been fitted wrongly! > > Or someone on a loadin hung the fixture upside down. True, but if the color frame waits to fall until there's an audience in the theatre I'd be surprised. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ From: "Michael Feinberg" Subject: Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:58:40 -0400 Message-Id: <20041110215615.M96667 [at] joyce.eng.yale.edu> In-Reply-To: References:

> Or someone on a loadin hung the fixture upside down. Like the way Behringer displays their Source Four PAR knock-off? :) http://www.behringer.com/UP1000/ -Michael Feinberg, CTS ------------------------------ Message-Id: <33DA72F4-336C-11D9-9F35-000D936BFA94 [at] dejazzd.com> From: Greg Bierly Subject: Radio Shack Egrips Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:59:40 -0500 I have been trying to keep stuff from sliding off my consoles forever. I have tried gaff tape and I never had On a whim I picked up a package of E Grips from Radio Shack for $10 US. I put a strip on either side of both the audio and lighting consoles. Now my remotes, clipboards, headphones, board mic, and other miscellaneous items all stay put. I have seen the stuff before advertised to keep cell phones and sunglasses on dashboards. I am sure you can find this stuff cheaper elsewhere, I just wanted to report to you how well it worked. Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <007901c4c779$9cea0850$80fea8c0 [at] Fred> From: "Mike Rock" Cc: mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net References:

Subject: Re: Safetied gel frames (was: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 17:04:20 -0600 Slightly off topic but two years ago I went to a local amusement parks "drama day" where the pack a bunch of high schoolers into a theater and tell them the great opportunities that await them if they work backstage for them. Being the techs that we are my friend and I were looking around and were very shocked to discover the lack of safety cables in the room, not a single fixture had any sort of safety device, nothing like having a track spot hanging over your head to make the roller coasters seem safe. Mike Rock P.S. Our school swept the Q&A sections, provided me with a few good painting shirts. ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <78.65afa1e6.2ec40072 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:38:26 EST Subject: Re: 10 biggest mistakes In a message dated 10/11/04 19:07:48 GMT Standard Time, slitterst [at] ithaca.edu writes: > Frank, I normally just let you go, but I have to step in this time. > In mixing a live performance, microphones are not used constantly and > as such need to be muted and unmuted throughout the performance. You > wouldn't want us to leave Javert's mic live while he slipped off to > the loo, would you? More subtly, you don't want Javert's mic live > while Valjean is singing. Very true. This all needs an accurate script for the operator. While I don't do shows with live mikes, if I can help it, I try to write both lighting and sound scripts so that someone can walk in off the street, knowing the equipment, and do a fair job. It takes a lot of work, but I owe it to the show. Exact and precise instructions, to the level of 'push this button now'. Perhaps I am a bit of a fanatic here, but I remember one show I lit with a maniacal control. Pushing one bad button could get you in deep trouble. Ever afterwards, my scripts have included the information which will provide an exit route. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <66.49cf8ce7.2ec400df [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:40:15 EST Subject: Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts In a message dated 10/11/04 19:41:28 GMT Standard Time, deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: > I would venture that if there's a frame that has ANY potential for falling > out all on it's lonesome, then it's either a cheap & nasty fixture or the > frame's been fitted wrongly! Or, perhaps, an old one. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <84.382f52e5.2ec403dc [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:53:00 EST Subject: Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts In a message dated 10/11/04 20:01:18 GMT Standard Time, Chip.Wood [at] motorola.com writes: > I would venture that if there's a frame that has ANY potential for falling > out all on it's lonesome, then it's either a cheap & nasty fixture or the > frame's been fitted wrongly! Or, as I said, old. Forty years ago, we were less worried about this sort of thing, and maybe wrongly. Perhaps we knew the law of gravity. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <886EF25AF8BEF64EB89A820EF84064FF0A28E458 [at] UCMAIL4> From: "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" Subject: RE: Radio Shack Egrips Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:05:47 -0500 I bought a piece of that stuff at Batteries Plus and then called the manufacture to ask if they had bigger sheets. They did and it was reasonably priced. I used it to cover the console on my Tahoe and now things don't slide off. I brought a piece in to the shop but have not yet found a use for it. Steve Waxler Technical Director College Conservatory of Music University of Cincinnati I have been trying to keep stuff from sliding off my consoles forever. I have tried gaff tape and I never had On a whim I picked up a package of E Grips from Radio Shack for $10 US. I put a strip on either side of both the audio and lighting consoles. Now my remotes, clipboards, headphones, board mic, and other miscellaneous items all stay put. I have seen the stuff before advertised to keep cell phones and sunglasses on dashboards. I am sure you can find this stuff cheaper elsewhere, I just wanted to report to you how well it worked. Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c99804111017517064d6d1 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:51:23 -0500 From: Scott Parker Reply-To: Scott Parker Subject: Re: Speaker advice In-Reply-To: References:

However, the first answer you'll get is to hire a consultant! ;-) > I recommend you join the theatre-sound list and ask this question there...: > -- Take care, Scott Scott C. Parker ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c99804111017535c504de2 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:53:59 -0500 From: Scott Parker Reply-To: Scott Parker Subject: Re: Radio Shack Egrips In-Reply-To: References: Steve, care to share your source? Scott On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 19:05:47 -0500, Waxler, Steve (waxlers) called the > manufacture to ask if they had bigger sheets. They did and it was > reasonably priced. -- Take care, Scott Scott C. Parker ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 02:03:55 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Speaker advice In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Scott Parker wrote: > However, the first answer you'll get is to hire a consultant! ;-) Only from the consultants, though ;-) Charlie > + Charlie Richmond - Richmond Sound Design Ltd - Aura Show Control Ltd + + http://www.RichmondSoundDesign.com -- http://www.AuraShowControl.com + +---- "Performance for the Long Run" ----- "Creativity in Control" ----+ ------------------------------ Message-Id: <02500363-338D-11D9-838E-000A958ABBF8 [at] theprices.net> From: Noah Price Subject: What's that light? Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 18:54:30 -0800 I'm working on the lighting portion of a school theater renovation. As an intermediate step, I'm trying to get as much of their equipment working as possible for a near term show. Much of it is Altman or Century or similar familiar instruments, but one I can't identify. The school has it in both an elipsoidal version and a fresnel version... I put pictures on the gallery site. Can anyone tell me the manufacturer and model? And better yet, point me to specs (beam/field angle, etc)? Thanks! Noah ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:59:42 -0500 Subject: Re: 10 biggest mistakes From: Mike Benonis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: On 11/10/04 1:39 PM, "FrankWood95 [at] aol.com" wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 10/11/04 03:03:36 GMT Standard Time, > mbenonis_lists [at] mac.com writes: > >> My biggest problem with our theatre is a poorly designed wireless system that >> is inflexible and not expandable. Therefore, we have to place receivers in >> the back stage area, which leads to the second biggest problem: not enough >> microphone ports in the backstage area. We have seven ports backstage, and >> six in front of the stage - that's really helpful when you have 9+ things >> backstage to plug in! > > Why do you have to place receivers backstage? Surely the wireless system will > reach to the booth. OK, these can sometimes have problems, but I should have > thought that juggling the aerial locations would solve them. These then feed > to the receivers down RF co-axial cable. > > Frank Wood The booth is about 150-175 feet from the stage, and the audio rack is made of lots of metal - which makes it impossible to place receivers with antennas in it and get decent reception. We do have two antennas on the catwalk (30 feet from the performers, I would venture to guess) that leads to the booth audio rack, but we only have one antenna splitter for them with four diversity outputs, which we are indeed using. That leaves seven other mic receivers that we cannot place in the booth without an additional antenna splitter. That may be a possible purchase for the department later in the year - I'd have to see. Another issue is that we are operating mics that are both VHF (180-200 MHz, and installed antennas are for this range) and UHF (510-530 MHz). Therefore, we could not use the installed antennas on our new UHF systems even if we wanted to. -Mike Benonis Senior and Sound Designer/Technician Stone Bridge High School 43100 Hay Road Ashburn, VA 20147 (703) 779-8900 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4192E512.202 [at] StudioOneSB.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:05:38 -0500 From: Richard Bakos Organization: Studio One Inc. Subject: Re: What's that light? References: In-Reply-To: The Manufacturer is Electro Controls. EC was purchased by the Strand organization. Most of the ones I have seen are standard 6x instruments the one you have looks to be a 6 x 9 by the length of it. They used standard parts as I remember. Rick Noah Price wrote: > I'm working on the lighting portion of a school theater renovation. As > an intermediate step, I'm trying to get as much of their equipment > working as possible for a near term show. Much of it is Altman or > Century or similar familiar instruments, but one I can't identify. The > school has it in both an elipsoidal version and a fresnel version... I > put pictures on the gallery site. Can anyone tell me the manufacturer > and model? And better yet, point me to specs (beam/field angle, etc)? > > > -- Richard Bakos President Studio One Inc. 25833 State Road 2 South Bend, In 46619-4736 VOICE 574-232-9084 FAX 574-232-2220 Rick [at] StudioOneSB.com www.StudioOnesb.com ------------------------------ From: "Andy Leviss" Subject: RE: Audio operation in the audience space (was 10 biggest mistakes) Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:08:40 -0500 Organization: Duck's Echo Sound Message-ID: <006701c4c7a4$2150bd80$a19afea9 [at] AndyLeviss> In-Reply-To: Frank Wood wrote: > Very true. This all needs an accurate script for the > operator. While I don't > do shows with live mikes, if I can help it, I try to write > both lighting and > sound scripts so that someone can walk in off the street, knowing the > equipment, and do a fair job. It takes a lot of work, but I > owe it to the show. Exact > and precise instructions, to the level of 'push this button now'. Alas, however, such is just not feasible on a show with reinforcement (and, much as we'd all love perfect sounding spaces that need no reinforcement, many of us make our living doing shows in theatres and arenas with seat counts in the thousands, where it's just not going to happen; even in smaller venues, some very talented and very capable performers won't work without reinforcement now, because they know it's a tool that allows them to express a subtlety that just isn't possible without it--they may be fully capable of belting out to fill a huge venue, but what happens when they want a gentle, tear-filled, choked ballad?). When you're mixing a live actor, if you're good at what you do, you're mixing each mic line-by-line, bringing it down to reduce noise floors in between lines, and riding with the actor to act as a sort of ultra-soft-knee human-driven compressor. It's not easy, and not something that just anybody off the street can do. My script for my current show is heavily notated with mic in/out cues (I don't use mutes, since I am bringing the mic up and down for each line), notes on how soon certain lines come in so as not to cut off beginnings of overlapping lines, etc., and even notations on where my actors tend to speak rather excitedly, shout, and/or talk very gently. Even so, however, there's so much variance in a live performance that this only acts as a guide; I still have to stay on my toes and ride with the actors as the show goes on. I have to talk to my actors before the show, to get a sense of how their vocal health is that day, and what I can expect out of them--do I sense a cold coming on that I may have to compensate for on her big scene? Is that cold he's been fighting for the last week finally fading? Then, for both the actors and my playback cues (and, on my show, I'm running pre-recorded music, pre-recorded dialogue tracks for the Muppets, and sound FX), I have to judge the acoustics of the venue and the noise level of the audience and find an appropriate level that will make sure everybody can hear clearly and comfortably, as the designer intended them to. That's what I get paid for--to make sure that every audience in every venue I tour to gets as close as physically possible to the sound that the designer set in production. That's why I get paid the big bu...well, that's why I get paid. ;o) The same goes for any show, from big Broadway tours to family shows, small intimate dinner theatres to large regional theatres. And, on the "by the numbers" thing, there's still that certain thing that only experience can teach you that prevents just any old person from effectively running a sound design, in my book. Doing a nice clean logarithmic fade, for example, isn't something easily taught; it's something either you can do naturally or that comes to you with experience. And this is something that being out in the house really helps with--a long slow fade may reach the threshold of audibility in the house well before it starts to drop out in the booth. I've run lots of shows in booths, and hated every one of them. I've also designed shows where my op was in a booth (in fact, most of the shows I've designed have, unfortunately, been in such circumstances), and dreaded having to do it "by the numbers". It sucks some of the art out of it, to say the least. My two cents, Andy Leviss Sound Engineer, Sesame Street Live: Elmo's Coloring Book --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.786 / Virus Database: 532 - Release Date: 10/29/2004 ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: <7B58B991-3398-11D9-A61F-000393897332 [at] email.arizona.edu> Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien) From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: What's that light? Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:16:38 -0700 It does look like an Electro Controls' fixture. And unbelievably, it looks nastier than a Paralipsphere. I wonder if it gives out Pi** yellow light also? Mark O'Brien Opera Technical Director University of Arizona, School of Music Tucson, AZ 520/621-7025 520/591-1803 Mobile On Nov 10, 2004, at 9:05 PM, Richard Bakos wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > The Manufacturer is Electro Controls. EC was purchased by the Strand > organization. Most of the ones I have seen are standard 6x instruments > the one you have looks to be a 6 x 9 by the length of it. They used > standard parts as I remember. > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000701c4c7a6$e96140e0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: What's that light? Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 20:28:36 -0800 > > It does look like an Electro Controls' fixture. And unbelievably, it > looks nastier than a Paralipsphere. I wonder if it gives out Pi** yellow > light also? My experiences with Parallelspheres (or however they were spelled) - lamps (GEs, as I recall) exploding and blowing out the lenses. Even if the lamps didn't explode, the horrible heat dissipation of those fixtures resulted in cracked PC lenses. I also loved how the GE lamps would swell and blister, making it impossible to remove it from the Electro Controls lights without busting the lamp (since the lamp would swell inside the reflector). I also remember the stripped-out zoom and focus knobs. Such joy working with those beasts. -- Jon Ares Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts www.hevanet.com/acreative http://www.wlhs.wlwv.k12.or.us/aresj/theatre/index.htm ------------------------------ Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.0.20041110233331.02997a80 [at] pop.lightlink.com> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 23:40:48 -0500 From: John Bracewell Subject: Re: Audio operation in the audience space (was 10 biggest mistakes) In-Reply-To: References: BRAVO, ANDY!!!! I wish a few people I know could read your post and really understand what it means! Not likely to happen, sadly. --JLB ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien) From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: What's that light? Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:39:36 -0700 Sorry about the spelling, thought I had repressed the name... The deal with the lamps was that the reflectors were designed around an "interim" lamp. When the manufacturer made the final design, the envelope of the lamp was just a bit too large for the hole in the reflector. Especially when it heated up (as lamps do). When I was at Center Stage, in Baltimore, we had a few of those, as well as the prototype Plexus Light-board. The engineer must have racked up the fly miles going from Salt Lake, to B'more Nasty Nasty Nasty. Mark O'Brien Opera Technical Director University of Arizona, School of Music Tucson, AZ 520/621-7025 520/591-1803 Mobile On Nov 10, 2004, at 9:28 PM, Jon Ares wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > >> >> It does look like an Electro Controls' fixture. And unbelievably, >> it looks nastier than a Paralipsphere. I wonder if it gives out Pi** >> yellow light also? > > My experiences with Parallelspheres (or however they were spelled) - > lamps (GEs, as I recall) exploding and blowing out the lenses. Even > if the lamps didn't explode, the horrible heat dissipation of those > fixtures resulted in cracked PC lenses. I also loved how the GE lamps > would swell and blister, making it impossible to remove it from the > Electro Controls lights without busting the lamp (since the lamp would > swell inside the reflector). > > I also remember the stripped-out zoom and focus knobs. Such joy > working with those beasts. > > -- Jon Ares > Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts > www.hevanet.com/acreative > http://www.wlhs.wlwv.k12.or.us/aresj/theatre/index.htm ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:27:40 -0800 Subject: Re: What's that light? Message-ID: <20041110.222747.3252.1.ladesigners [at] juno.com> From: Richard Niederberg Dear Noah, Send that Electro Controls fixture back to Salt Lake City, freight collect, ASAP. There is no cost-effective way to deal with it, long term. I had to design multiple repertory light plots utilizing about 50 of these Paralipspheres in various states of repair and about 60 of their equally inefficient and hard to maintain EC cousins for the Garden Theatre Festival at the Gallery Theatre in Los Angeles about 30 through 25 years ago. You do not want to even hear about bulb life/breakage/warped reflectors/et cetera. Trust me on this. Even a Century Diecast Leko is superior. /s/ Richard > Can anyone tell me the manufacturer and model? > And better yet, point me to specs (beam/field angle, > etc)? > > > > Thanks! > > Noah ________________________________________________________________ Juno Platinum $9.95. Juno SpeedBand $14.95. Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <157.43647700.2ec461a5 [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 01:33:09 EST Subject: The magic Tonight, I took my son to see Big River at the Weidner Center in Green Bay, WI. For those not familiar with this production, it's completely signed in ASL (thanks to Linda Bove of Sesame Street fame) as well as spoken/sung. I saw it in Dallas last summer from the nose bleed section and was hoping to get closer seats this time to see more of the action. Mission accomplished. My son, not being well versed in pre- civil war US history, Mark Twain's literature, nor deaf culture, spent the ride up telling me that "by the looks of the picture, he's a hillbilly since they dress that way and wear that kind of hat." (I didn't have the heart to tell him that his own Gilley heritage is exactly that - right down to the moonshine.) And he was moping because I wasn't taking him to the design session for his Lego League team. We get to our seats and he asks, "What's this all about?" I tell him, "Just watch!" thinking that if he doesn't understand the storyline, at least he can enjoy the singing and the cool set and costumes. About 15 minutes into the show I glance over and he's deep into the action, laughing at Huck's dad and his shadow. He oohs and aahs over how the set adapts to different scenes. He starts tapping his foot, then bouncing in his seat in time to the music. Then comes the scene that tears my heart out - Jim telling about his daughter and how he realized that she'd lost her hearing. When I first read the book of Huck Finn, I cried at that part. I cried tonight too. My son noticed and gave me a little hug and whispered "It's only pretend!" By intermission he's telling me how "AWESOME" it is and how he's so glad I didn't take him to Lego league tonight but took him to the theatre instead and can we go see King & I or Les Miz when they come later this season and and and... Act 2 has a scene where the entire cast is onstage singing and signing "I've been searching in the darkness for so long, I am waiting for the light to shine!" crescendoing to triple forte loudness. Then suddenly all sound stops but the actors continue to sign. It's an amazing sight to see and "hear". For a few moments you "understand" what it's like to be deaf. After coming home from Dallas this summer, I told dozens of people what that moment felt like for me in the audience. Tonight my son leaned over just as the sound started up again and whispered "cool!" In that second I realized that he "gets" theatre. All the way home he talked about the charactors, how he was angry when the slaves where sold, what happens to someone who gets tarred and feathered, where can he get the book, how did I know he'd love the show, how did they make the coffin work, how do people learn to talk with their hands like that and so on. My friends - it's for moments like this that we do our art. Please, the next time you're faced with an egomaniacal director, apathetic administration, set piece that won't fit through the door, costume ruined by the dry cleaners, or whatever.... PLEASE remember that through stagecraft we are able to make MAGIC happen in the hearts of your audience. To give them that incredible feeling of being part of the action. To share strong emotions with a room of strangers. To experience something and be forever changed by it. Wow. I just tucked in one very tired 10 year old with a huge smile on his face. If someone on this list has connections with Big River (and I'd bet there is!) please pass this on as a letter of thanks from a greatful mom, drama teacher and theatre lover. Kristi R-C ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: <6FD9BD89-33A8-11D9-A9C6-000A958ABBF8 [at] theprices.net> From: Noah Price Subject: Re: What's that light? Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 22:10:50 -0800 On Nov 10, 2004, at 8:05 PM, Richard Bakos wrote: > The Manufacturer is Electro Controls. EC was purchased by the Strand > organization. Most of the ones I have seen are standard 6x instruments > the one you have looks to be a 6 x 9 by the length of it. They used > standard parts as I remember. I assume there are different appearances? The Electro-Controls fresnel and elipsoidals I found online look different than what I have: The pictures in the Photometrics Handbook show a simple cylinder, unlike mine which have the lamp coming off at an angle in the back... like these photo's from Mark Harvey's site: And a pair you'll find on eBay the next 4 1/2 days by searching "Electro Controls". Thanks, Noah ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003301c4c7bd$48d63240$0100a8c0 [at] yourwbhlv195ih> Reply-To: "Paul" From: "Paul" References: Subject: Re: The magic Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:08:37 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 6:33 AM Subject: The magic > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I just tucked in one very tired 10 year old with a huge smile on his face. If > someone on this list has connections with Big River (and I'd bet there is!) > please pass this on as a letter of thanks from a greatful mom, drama teacher > and theatre lover. > > Kristi R-C Kristi Kristi Thanks for sharing this wonderful experience with us all. Paul ------------------------------ Message-ID: <002001c4c7c3$7f3a8bf0$82a72ad9 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:53:10 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 11:40 PM Subject: Re: Yoke Bolts and Pan Bolts > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 10/11/04 19:41:28 GMT Standard Time, > deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes: > > > I would venture that if there's a frame that has ANY potential for falling > > out all on it's lonesome, then it's either a cheap & nasty fixture or the > > frame's been fitted wrongly! > > Or, perhaps, an old one. > > Frank Wood > Actually, with the patt 23 firmly in mind, that is of course a possibility. Much as I've always liked the P23's as a stalwart lantern there BIG weak spot has to be that the gel frame runners were notoriously loose! OK - I'll give you that one! 8-))) Ynot ------------------------------ Message-ID: <004f01c4c7c5$afb53670$82a72ad9 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: What's that light? Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:08:51 -0000 Personally I have no idea what the thing is, but it sure looks ugly!!! 8-))) Ynot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noah Price" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2004 2:54 AM Subject: What's that light? > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I'm working on the lighting portion of a school theater renovation. As > an intermediate step, I'm trying to get as much of their equipment > working as possible for a near term show. Much of it is Altman or > Century or similar familiar instruments, but one I can't identify. The > school has it in both an elipsoidal version and a fresnel version... I > put pictures on the gallery site. Can anyone tell me the manufacturer > and model? And better yet, point me to specs (beam/field angle, etc)? > > > > Thanks! > > Noah > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <005a01c4c7c5$b717ede0$82a72ad9 [at] Tony> From: "Tony Deeming" References: Subject: Re: The magic Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:09:03 -0000 ----- Original Message ----- From: > Tonight, I took my son to see Big River at the Weidner Center in Green Bay, > My friends - it's for moments like this that we do our art. Please, the next > time you're faced with an egomaniacal director, apathetic administration, set > piece that won't fit through the door, costume ruined by the dry cleaners, or > whatever.... PLEASE remember that through stagecraft we are able to make MAGIC > happen in the hearts of your audience. To give them that incredible feeling > of being part of the action. To share strong emotions with a room of strangers. > To experience something and be forever changed by it. Wow. > > I just tucked in one very tired 10 year old with a huge smile on his face. If > someone on this list has connections with Big River (and I'd bet there is!) > please pass this on as a letter of thanks from a greatful mom, drama teacher > and theatre lover. > > Kristi R-C > That's one nail well and truly hammered on the head! It's not always something that can be said about all performances, either by the talent or from our tech side, but when it does, it sure means a lot. Thanks for sharing it! Ynot ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 10:04:34 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Cc: paul.newsxx [at] dsl.pipex.com (Paul) Subject: Re: The magic In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004, Paul wrote: > Thanks for sharing this wonderful experience with us all. Yes, indeed! I have tears in my eyes after reading it now... Charlie ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #192 *****************************