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For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Stagecraft Digest, Issue #237

 1. Out of Office AutoReply: Stagecraft Digest #236
    by Richard Lund <Richard.Lund [at] Strandlighting.com>
 2. Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
    by Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
 3. Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
 4. Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
    by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
 5. Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
    by Adam Fitchett <adam [at] fitchtech.net>
 6. second data pair
    by "Karl G. Ruling" <kruling [at] esta.org>
 7. Re: Another Plexi floor
    by "Ehrenberg, Steven" <StevenEhrenberg [at] clearchannel.com>
 8. Re: DMX question
    by "Ken Romaine" <kr [at] tmb.com>
 9. Re: second data pair
    by Greg Bierly <gbierly [at] dejazzd.com>
10. Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
    by MissWisc [at] aol.com
11. Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
    by "Jeffrey Kanyuck" <JKanyuck [at] Harford.edu>
12. Re: Molotov
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
13. Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
    by "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
14. free ware programs
    by "Jeffrey Kanyuck" <JKanyuck [at] Harford.edu>
15. Re: Snow Machines
    by "Sam Fisher" <Sam [at] FisherTheatrical.com>
16. Re: second data pair
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
17. Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
18. Re: DMX question
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
19. Re: molotov
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
20. Re: DMX question
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
21. Re: DMX question
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
22. Re: molotov
    by Mick Alderson <alderson [at] uwosh.edu>
23. Re: Snow Machines
    by Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net>
24. Re: free ware programs
    by "Delbert Hall" <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com>
25. A new one, but related to: RE: DMX512 Question  
    by "Fitch, Tracy" <tfitch [at] email.uncc.edu>
26. How much does scrim stretch?
    by "Frank E. Merrill" <Lamplighter [at] TCON.net>
27. Free connectors
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
28. Re: A new one, but related to: RE: DMX512 Question  
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
29. Re: How much does scrim stretch?
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
30. Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
    by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
31. Re: another plexi floor ?
    by "Nick Blower" <stagecraft [at] nick.redeggs.co.uk>
32. Re: A new one, but related to: RE: DMX512 Question
    by Dale Farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
33. Re: How much does scrim stretch?
    by "Jason" <OneOccy [at] hotmail.com>
34. Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
    by MissWisc [at] aol.com
35. Re: Free connectors
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>

*** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject
*** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to
*** one message subject in each reply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-ID: <9E53DD7DC667D311A47A0000F808EC8E034EE03A [at] strandla>
From: Richard Lund <Richard.Lund [at] Strandlighting.com>
Subject: Out of Office AutoReply: Stagecraft Digest #236
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:01:25 -0800

I am out of the office on vacation thru Tuesday Jan. 3, 2005,  but will
reply to your email when I return.

Happy Holidays,

Richard Lund
Strand Lighting

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:39:53 -0500
Subject: Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
From: Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BDF034D9.4B22%bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-10100869 [at] prxy.net>

Frank Wood wrote:
> Sulphur is a powerful fungicide. Combined with a solution of copper sulphate,
> it is extensive used in growing grapes, to prevent mould.
> 
> Charcoal is extensively used for barbecues, and potassium nitrate in
> preserving  meat (saltpetre). Put the three together, and there's your
> gunpowder.

    In light of both this thread, and the number of "molotov" thread posts,
I'd like to take this opportunity to say "Hello" to the Homeland Insecurity
folks that are undoubtedly monitoring this list now.

Bruce
-- 
Bruce Purdy
Technical Director
Smith Opera House




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:06:30 -0500
Subject: Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BDF03B15.2586%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-10121134 [at] prxy.net>

on 12/23/04 8:39 AM, Bruce Purdy at bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com wrote:

> In light of both this thread, and the number of "molotov" thread posts,
> I'd like to take this opportunity to say "Hello" to the Homeland Insecurity
> folks that are undoubtedly monitoring this list now.


I had a great laugh when I read this post, until I relalized it was probably
true.

Ah well

Bill S.
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

We stand behind, and under, our work.


------------------------------

Reply-To: <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
Subject: RE: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:20:03 -0500
Message-ID: <000c01c4e8fa$83bbd690$6601a8c0 [at] Dell>
In-Reply-To: <list-10123901 [at] prxy.net>


> > In light of both this thread, and the number of "molotov" thread 
> > posts, I'd like to take this opportunity to say "Hello" to the 
> > Homeland Insecurity folks that are undoubtedly monitoring this list 
> > now.
> 
> 
> I had a great laugh when I read this post

I know.  I heard you.

Sincerely,
John Ashcroft


------------------------------

Message-ID: <41CAD82F.70900 [at] fitchtech.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 06:37:35 -0800
From: Adam Fitchett <adam [at] fitchtech.net>
Subject: Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
References: <list-10126064 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-10126064 [at] prxy.net>

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
  <meta content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1" http-equiv="Content-Type">
  <title></title>
</head>
<body bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
Well if they weren't listening before, they are now. How dare you write
the name of the lord! Much less worse impersonate him! <br>
Come on, all together now: "All I want for Christmas is an
in-dict-ment, an in-dict-ment."<br>
<br>
-Adam (thus concludes my sad attempt to stay out of jail for the time
being, or at least until I go to the local library....)<br>
<br>
Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote:
<blockquote cite="midlist-10126064 [at] prxy.net" type="cite">
  <blockquote type="cite">
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">In light of both this thread, and the number of "molotov" thread 
posts, I'd like to take this opportunity to say "Hello" to the 
Homeland Insecurity folks that are undoubtedly monitoring this list 
now.
      </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <pre wrap="">
I had a great laugh when I read this post
    </pre>
  </blockquote>
  <pre wrap=""><!---->
I know.  I heard you.

Sincerely,
John Ashcroft


  </pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>

------------------------------

From: "Karl G. Ruling" <kruling [at] esta.org>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 09:51:15 -0500
Subject: second data pair
Reply-to: kruling [at] esta.org
Message-ID: <41CA9513.32712.3429D2 [at] localhost>
In-reply-to: <list-10100869 [at] prxy.net>

> 
> At this moment ET is the only company that I can think of using the
> second data pair.  Wybron might have a system that uses it as well but
> I don't remember.  Mitch are there others that you know of?

The problem is that there is a whole world out there and no way to 
poll all of the manufacturers and also all the end-users who like to 
do clever modifications on their DMX512 systems. I've seen other US-
made systems that use the second link for sending configuration 
information between dimmer racks/packs and some that use it for a 
second universe of DMX512 channels, so you have 1024 on one plug.  
This is just in the US; tere are non-US companies that have used it, 
too, besides the ones that have ignored the standard and turned the 
data lines into power lines by putting 24 V power on them. DMX512 is 
used world-wide, and there is no way to know what people have done 
with the secondary data lines, and no way to keep equipment designed 
for the common practices in one market, which might be known, from 
being transported and used in another market.

> According to one of my engineering friends for one of the DMX product
> manufacturers  the reason the new RDM talk back functions were
> designed to work on a single pair and not the second DMX pair, is
> because of all of the single pair cable out in the lighting world.  He
> also says RDM would be a lot more stable on the second pair but a lot
> of places would have to pull new wire to make use of RDM then.

Yes, but also there is the matter of all the other undefined stuff 
that might be on the second data pair. If you put RDM on the second 
pair, the ET talkback system would crash and so would the RDM. The 
Electrol Engineering automatic configuration system would crash, too. 
Who knows what else wouldn't work? What's on the primary datalink is 
pretty well defined, so you can design a protocol to work with that, 
but you can't design a protocol to work with an unlimited range of 
undefined stuff that might be on the secondary datalink. 

> Because manufacturers never made use of the extra pins people stopped
> wiring it as the wire is about $.50 more a foot. You can save a lot of
> money in a big install. I am not saying don't follow the standard as
> the 3 pin XLR drives me up the wall, just stating the reasoning for no
> pins 4 and 5.

The assumption that manufacturers never use the extra pins is a 
common one, but obviously is untrue. This assumption is how we have 
gotten all sorts of weird stuff on the secondary data link; people 
thought they were unclaimed virgin territory, ripe for any kind of 
development, with no laws. A correct statement might be "no system I 
know uses the extra pins," but that's not the same as "manufacturers 
never use the extra pins."
 
That reminds me of one of the lines from the Confucian Analects:
    'The Master said, "Yu, shall I teach you what knowledge is? When 
you know a thing, to hold that you know it; and when you do not know 
a thing, to allow that you do not know it;-this is knowledge."'



------------------------------

Subject: RE: Another Plexi floor
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 08:54:52 -0600
Message-ID: <95E1F758C14A0248B42D6FC9D67C7C32011502DF [at] CCUMAIL14.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com>
From: "Ehrenberg, Steven" <StevenEhrenberg [at] clearchannel.com>



On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 11:22:28 -Joe Dunfee Wrote

  "Just a thought here... there are vinyl and plastic carpet covers for
various uses (office chairs, runners for high traffic areas, etc.)

  Perhaps one of these materials could be used for a final covering, and
provide a finish that is matt, but relatively easy to clean (or
replace)."

This is an Excellent Idea. In the Blue Man Las Vegas Production, the
Drummers at the Kits in the upstage tower are positioned on an uplit
plexi (lid & Legs) platform. The design intention was that they appear
to be floating and surrounded by light. The look is still great and the
solution to carpeting under the drum kits was Clear vinyl runners, they
worked very well. In this application, the vinyl runners are not
noticeable. Your mileage may vary; these were under the drum kits.
Happy, Merry & best for the New Year

Steven

Steven Ehrenberg
Director of Technical Supervision
Clear Channel Entertainment - Theatrical
Off. 917 421 5461
Mobile 917 331 0207

------------------------------

Subject: Re: DMX question
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 07:53:57 -0800
Message-ID: <35418D398577A34FB3A059F99B9F370202E1386F [at] nigel.tmbworldwide.tmb.com>
From: "Ken Romaine" <kr [at] tmb.com>

In a previous life, I was a salesperson with the Systems Intergration =
Group for Production Arts Lighting.  One of the ways we would handle the =
multiple console location problem would be:
1. Put in a normal DMX512 input box (male 5-pin XLR) at one console =
location (call it Location A).
2. Run the wire thru the wall from there to the other console location =
(Location B).
3.  At Location B, the wall plate has a female 5-pin XLR pigtail coming =
out of it, long enough to plug into the male 5-pin XLR that is also on =
the wall plate.
4.  The cable from Location A is wired to the female 5-pin XLR pigtail =
at Location B.
5.  The male 5-pin XLR at Location B is wired to the dimmer rack.
When the console is at Location B, the DMX512 output of the console is =
plugged into the male 5-pin XLR jack.  Whenever the console leaves =
Location B, the female 5-pin XLR pigtail is plugged into the male 5-pin =
XLR jack.  This creates one run of cable from the dimmer rack to =
Location A, for when the console is plugged in there.
I found this to be a simple, inexpensive method to provide a system (and =
customer) with two console plug-in locations without a merger, other =
electronic device, or an unterminated DMX line.

Happy Holidays to all!!

Ken Romaine
Sales
TMB New York
100 Asia Pl.
Carlstadt, NJ 07072
Ph: +1-201-896-8600
Fax: +1-201-896-8601
kr [at] tmb.com

------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-10129732 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-10129732 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <00378272-54FD-11D9-8FEA-000D936BFA94 [at] dejazzd.com>
From: Greg Bierly <gbierly [at] dejazzd.com>
Subject: Re: second data pair
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:09:19 -0500

>> At this moment ET is the only company that I can think of using the
>> second data pair.  Wybron might have a system that uses it as well but
>> I don't remember.  Mitch are there others that you know of?

I believe the previously mentioned Colortran ENR's use pin 4 and 5 for 
monitoring airflow in their dimmer racks (or at least indicators on 
their consoles).  Unless of course they are doing something 
bi-directional on pins 2 and 3.


Greg Bierly
Technical Director
Hempfield HS


------------------------------

From: MissWisc [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <12f.53234bde.2efc59d7 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 12:26:47 EST
Subject: Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"

In a message dated 12/23/4 8:05:14 AM, bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com writes:
<< I had a great laugh when I read this post, until I relalized it was 
probably true. >>

Given the number of us who've worked for the President and other assorted 
government VIPs on various stops, we've probably all got files somewhere. I 
figure mine will be boring reading for someone 50 years from now: "She went to 
college a lot, got married, had a kid, drank rarely, laughed often, loved music 
and theatre, opened a small business to make ends meet, and shared her knowledge 
with others."

Kristi

------------------------------

Message-Id: <s1cac318.006 [at] ADM4.harford.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:04:38 -0500
From: "Jeffrey Kanyuck" <JKanyuck [at] Harford.edu>
Subject: Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"

Don't forget:May have made costumes for so+so, 18 relatives removed from
suspected possible guerrilla.
Just kidding.
Jeff

>>> MissWisc [at] aol.com 12/23/04 12:26PM >>>
For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see
<http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

In a message dated 12/23/4 8:05:14 AM, bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com writes:
<< I had a great laugh when I read this post, until I relalized it was

probably true. >>

Given the number of us who've worked for the President and other
assorted 
government VIPs on various stops, we've probably all got files
somewhere. I 
figure mine will be boring reading for someone 50 years from now: "She
went to 
college a lot, got married, had a kid, drank rarely, laughed often,
loved music 
and theatre, opened a small business to make ends meet, and shared her
knowledge 
with others."

Kristi

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <19d.2d1b4f10.2efc6394 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:08:20 EST
Subject: Re: Molotov

In a message dated 23/12/04 00:33:47 GMT Standard Time, fwfisher [at] wisc.edu 
writes:

> Here in Wisconsin, being the top brandy consumers in the world, it seems 
>  the goal of most people
>  is to stay drunk most of the time.  We have a popular pastry here that we 
>  call a Kringle which is
>  a ring of filo dough with various fillings.  In Door County, where the 
>  cherries are, the descendants
>  of the Walloons who settled there, love to use a prune filling.
>  Fred 

Our French equivalent is a 'tourtiere'. This is a parcel of filo pastry, 
filled with stewed apples, and prunes in eau-de-vie. The pastry is twisted into 
petal-like forms on top. 


Frank Wood

------------------------------

Message-ID: <000301c4e91b$3a60d5b0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS>
From: "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
References: <list-10150405 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 10:14:22 -0800

>  I figure mine will be boring reading for someone 50 years from now: "She
> went to college a lot, got married, had a kid, drank rarely, laughed 
> often,
> loved music and theatre, opened a small business to make ends meet, and 
> shared her
> knowledge with others."


...But it's WHAT you laughed at, that will raise eyebrows.  Opened a small 
business?  Is this some sort of front?  Cosmetics on top, but what's under 
that packing material?  College fund for son... or is it?  And what 
knowledge did you share with others?  Seems you do deal in chemical 
products....    ;)

Happy holidays, y'all.

      -- Jon Ares
Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts
www.hevanet.com/acreative
www.wlhstheatre.org 


------------------------------

Message-Id: <s1cac587.021 [at] ADM4.harford.edu>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:17:51 -0500
From: "Jeffrey Kanyuck" <JKanyuck [at] Harford.edu>
Subject: free ware programs

Hello All,
     I'm looking for the websites for freeware programs for calculating
weight bearing capabilities of lumber, lighting calculations, and
rigging calculations. I'd like for the students to work with them a bit
out of class to get a better grasp of some of the things they need to
consider in their designs. I'd have given them the websites already,
but, my computer died in my move this summer and I lost them.
I'll be covering everything in class much more in depth but, this would
give them a chance to play without taking up class time and figure out a
few things on their own.

       Happy Holidays everyone, take care out there!

       Jeff Kanyuck

------------------------------

From: "Sam Fisher" <Sam [at] FisherTheatrical.com>
Subject: RE: Snow Machines
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:20:54 -0500
In-reply-to: <list-10059267 [at] prxy.net>
Message-ID: <auto-000010151610 [at] prxy.net>

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Brandon
Slokowski
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 12:57 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Snow Machines

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Hello all,

I am sick and tired of dealing with hit or miss snow machines.  Either too 
much snow, or not enough snow, either covers too great of an area or not 
enough of an area.  I need to be able to control the size of the flakes, the

rate at which it falls, and the area it covers, hopefully it will be 
relatively quite too.  Any ideas, what do you like?

Thanks,

Brandon Slokowski

Brandon,

It sounds like the silent storm by LeMaitre is the the machine you are
looking for.  I has everything that you are asking for.  It's not silent but
it is a big improvement over other machines.

Sam Fisher
Fisher Theatrical, LLC.



------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <104.5728dcd1.2efc66a0 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:21:20 EST
Subject: Re: second data pair

In a message dated 23/12/04 14:52:10 GMT Standard Time, kruling [at] esta.org 
writes:

> That reminds me of one of the lines from the Confucian Analects:
>      'The Master said, "Yu, shall I teach you what knowledge is? When 
>  you know a thing, to hold that you know it; and when you do not know 
>  a thing, to allow that you do not know it;-this is knowledge."'

This reminds me of a poem I learnt at school.

He who knows, and knows that he knows,
He is a wise man; seek him.
He who knows and knows not he knows,
He is asleep; wake him.
He who knows not, and knows he knows not,
He is a child, teach him.
He who knows not, and knows not he knows not,
He is a fool; shun him.



Frank Wood

------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20041223112929.01826ab0 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:29:29
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: RE: "at LEAST an ATF permit"

>all you'd find in my flower pots is coffee grounds.

..which they are starting to make fireplace logs out of, replacing the
wood.  I think you'd better keep the extinguisher handy.
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				MON AZ

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <a3.69a707d4.2efc67db [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:26:35 EST
Subject: Re: DMX question

In a message dated 23/12/04 15:55:05 GMT Standard Time, kr [at] tmb.com writes:

> When the console is at Location B, the DMX512 output of the console is 
> plugged into the male 5-pin XLR jack.  Whenever the console leaves Location 
B,
>  the female 5-pin XLR pigtail is plugged into the male 5-pin XLR jack.  
This 
> creates one run of cable from the dimmer rack to Location A, for when the 
> console is plugged in there.
>  I found this to be a simple, inexpensive method to provide a system (and 
> customer) with two console plug-in locations without a merger, other 
> electronic device, or an unterminated DMX line.

A cheap and sensible approach. We did much the same in our Studio 
installation, when it went DMX. Here, there are seven places where the console may be, 
and we used a simple patch panel to select the one currently in use, the rest of 
the wiring not being connected.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20041223113336.01826ab0 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:33:36
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Re: molotov

>n the late 70's I drove my Triumph Spitfire on 140 proof corn liquor 
>that we made ourselves, rather than wait in line for gasoline that cost 
>OVER A BUCK!

That's why mark and I get along so well, I guess.  We ran my race bike on
tequila once, as it doesn't have any sugar in it.  Ran well, but really
hot.  We then decided that it was a total waste of tequila, as we could get
gas for under a buck back then, and it was 104 octane.
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				MON AZ

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20041223114008.01826ab0 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:40:08
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Re: DMX question

>Pull out the plug!

This would disconnect the board from the dimmers altogether, and while that
would keep the RF interference to a minimum, the 'high-impedence air gap'
would definitely keep the DMX signals well below standards.
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				MON AZ

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20041223115312.01826ab0 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 11:53:12
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Re: DMX question

>Chris I understood the question and I gave the appropriate answer. This
>isn't an audio line it's a DMX data line. According to the engineers, who
>are much smarter than me, DMX data inputs are always in series and it is
>acceptable not to break them.
>
>The way I understand the engineering theory is that the DMX transmitter in
>the console provides termination on the console end of the line so any
>reflections back down the line from the unused leg are absorbed by the
>transmitters terminator and don't travel back down the line to the dimmers,
>A/D,  etc.

OK, start from the point that I just barely taught myself to use DMX, and
am at the bear skins and stone knives level of programming consoles and
moving lights.  I'd heard that the star configuration (three or four cables
all running to the dimmer, only one populated at any given time) wasn't
acceptable.  I'm kinda getting the same thing from your description, sorta,
and I don't get why this works and the star config won't.  Either I
misunderstood your description (very possible) or I misunderstood the
qualities of the original configuration that were unacceptable (also very
possible).  I am in no way qualified to argue any method over another when
it come to DMX (although the comparison/contrast method with audio is VERY
helpful), but I don't see the difference, signal-wise, between the original
star config and yours. Would the star work under the engineering theory
that you quoted?
Picture these questions with a total Nipper look.  
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				MON AZ

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:15:45 -0600
From: Mick Alderson <alderson [at] uwosh.edu>
Subject: Re: molotov
Message-id: <v04020a04bdf0c6e9f38a [at] [141.233.131.246]>

>
>My heart bleeds for you. I pay about =A30.89 for a litre of diesel. =
This is
>more than $1.
>
>Frank Wood
>
>Er, Frank, don't forget that the left-ponders don't know what a litr=
e of
>fuel is.....
>They use their US Galls.!
>
>Ynot

Sure we do! It's the way we buy our liquor!

Of course, when the bottlers converted from quarts to liters they neg=
lected
to change the price of the bottles....

Mick Alderson

TD, Fredric March Theatre
University of Wisconsin Oshkosh

alderson [at] uwosh.edu

------------------------------

Message-ID: <41CB1E2F.7040107 [at] fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:36:15 -0500
From: Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net>
Subject: Re: Snow Machines
References: <list-10059267 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-10059267 [at] prxy.net>

Brandon Slokowski wrote:


> 
> I am sick and tired of dealing with hit or miss snow machines.  Either 
> too much snow, or not enough snow,

The one over Cincinnati was definitely set for too much snow!!!




------------------------------

Message-ID: <BAY16-DAV120BCC888B0C9FA265AFB9C2A50 [at] phx.gbl>
Reply-To: <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com>
From: "Delbert Hall" <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: free ware programs
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:31:59 -0500
Organization: Delbert Hall
Message-ID: <000001c4e92e$746eea90$6400a8c0 [at] delbert>
In-Reply-To: <list-10151317 [at] prxy.net>

LD Calculator Lite will not do lumber calculations, but it will do
rigging and lighting calculations, and a lot more.

-Delbert

-----Original Message-----

Hello All,
     I'm looking for the websites for freeware programs for calculating
weight bearing capabilities of lumber, lighting calculations, and
rigging calculations. I'd like for the students to work with them a bit
out of class to get a better grasp of some of the things they need to
consider in their designs. I'd have given them the websites already,
but, my computer died in my move this summer and I lost them.
I'll be covering everything in class much more in depth but, this would
give them a chance to play without taking up class time and figure out a
few things on their own.

       Happy Holidays everyone, take care out there!

       Jeff Kanyuck

 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.4 - Release Date: 12/22/2004
 

------------------------------

Subject: A new one, but related to: RE: DMX512 Question  
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:53:24 -0500
Message-ID: <A01ABA2A211C644596549C5FF91C50E4280536 [at] EXEVS02.its.uncc.edu>
From: "Fitch, Tracy" <tfitch [at] email.uncc.edu>

All of the above leads me to a question I've been pondering since
discovering the very anomaly described below in my new installation. =20

All 100+ DMX connections that exist throughout my facility have five
conductor wire pulled, but only pins 1-3 terminated.  The others are
heat-shrunk to the body of the cable inside the box.=20

I was pretty flabbergasted by this.  I guess I could understand the idea
of going with three conductor wire to save money, but installing a
standard five-pin cable infrastructure for future DMX patching and not
wiring the conductors you already pulled?!  It seems very odd.

Anyone else run across this?  I've been told it is both Strand and ETC
standard termination procedure.

--Tracy Fitch
TD, UNC Charlotte; LD, Everywhere Else

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Greg
> Persinger
> OK Mitch is correct here. What I described does not meet the DMX
standard.
> To meet the standard I would have to have all 5 pins connected all of
the
> way through the system. This is what USITT DMX512/1990 requires to be
> compliant. Pins 4 and 5 are reserved for auxiliary data and are  to be
> connected.


> ETC, Strand, and Colortran all decided to do dimmer talkback via
another
> cable so in these systems pins 4 and 5 are almost never hooked up.
>=20
> According to one of my engineering friends for one of the DMX product
> manufacturers  the reason the new RDM talk back functions were
designed to
> work on a single pair and not the second DMX pair, is because of all
of
> the
> single pair cable out in the lighting world.  He also says RDM would
be a
> lot more stable on the second pair but a lot of places would have to
pull
> new wire to make use of RDM then.
>=20
> Because manufacturers never made use of the extra pins people stopped
> wiring
> it as the wire is about $.50 more a foot. You can save a lot of money
in a
> big install. I am not saying don't follow the standard as the 3 pin
XLR
> drives me up the wall, just stating the reasoning for no pins 4 and 5.
>=20
> OK most of my installs don't comply to a true USITT DMX512/1990
standard
> because of lack of pin 4 and 5 connections. I don't claim they do.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:55:06 -0500
From: "Frank E. Merrill" <Lamplighter [at] TCON.net>
Reply-To: "Frank E. Merrill" <Lamplighter [at] TCON.net>
Message-ID: <17810467718.20041223155506 [at] TCON.net>
Subject: How much does scrim stretch?

O wise oracles of stagecraft, I beseech thee:

I need to sew a sharkstooth scrim drop about 50 feet wide by 17 feet
high which will hang from and ADC #280 track screwed to the underside
of the ceiling.  Since it will be tracked, I will use #8 Single Jack
chain in a pocket inside the bottom home for weight instead of a pipe.

How much should I allow for the stretchy nature of sharkstooth scrim?

I've sewn lots of scrim in my days but they are usually on flown sets
where the finished height of the drop is not so critical.  Anybody
have any formulae or rules of thumb to apply to this mystery?

Best regards,
 Frank E. Merrill
 MERRILL STAGE EQUIPMENT
 Established 1946
 Indianapolis  
 317: 255 4666

 Running The Bat! Natural e-mail system v3.0
          mailto:Lamplighter [at] TCON.net


------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.0.20041223130104.036d3e18 [at] localhost>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 13:09:10 -0800
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Free connectors

In our last batch of XLR connectors, we received two that are missing the 
backshells and cable clamps.  The vendor gave us more and said to toss 
these.  They're still usable if you add a drop of glue to the connector 
body to hold it in (AFTER you attach the wires).

Free to anyone who wants them (postage donations welcome).  Contact me 
directly, don't reply to the list.

Specs:
Deltron 804-0500
XLR-5
FEMALE
Cable mount
Silver color
silver contacts
TWO available

This offer limited to quantity in stock.

Happy Holidays to all.

BTW, I've noticed that the Neutrik ones have dropped in price to about the 
same as others, so I guess we'll be switching to Neutrik ones in the future.


----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523  USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886
fax:  +1 408 356-4659
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1d5.325b7f71.2efc9d98 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 17:15:52 EST
Subject: Re: A new one, but related to: RE: DMX512 Question  

In a message dated 23/12/04 20:54:40 GMT Standard Time, tfitch [at] email.uncc.edu 
writes:

> All 100+ DMX connections that exist throughout my facility have five
>  conductor wire pulled, but only pins 1-3 terminated.  The others are
>  heat-shrunk to the body of the cable inside the box. 
>  
>  I was pretty flabbergasted by this.  I guess I could understand the idea
>  of going with three conductor wire to save money, but installing a
>  standard five-pin cable infrastructure for future DMX patching and not
>  wiring the conductors you already pulled?!  It seems very odd.
>  
>  Anyone else run across this?  I've been told it is both Strand and ETC
>  standard termination procedure.

No, I haven't. And I am surprised. Assuming that you are using 5-pin XLR 
connectors throughout, it would be normal to terminate all five wires on them. 
Never mind if two of them are redundant today. Who knows what tomorrow will 
bring. Bad engineering, IMHO.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 18:04:37 -0500
Subject: Re: How much does scrim stretch?
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BDF0B934.25C7%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-10167210 [at] prxy.net>

on 12/23/04 3:55 PM, Frank E. Merrill at Lamplighter [at] TCON.net wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> O wise oracles of stagecraft, I beseech thee:
> 
> I need to sew a sharkstooth scrim drop about 50 feet wide by 17 feet
> high which will hang from and ADC #280 track screwed to the underside
> of the ceiling.  Since it will be tracked, I will use #8 Single Jack
> chain in a pocket inside the bottom home for weight instead of a pipe.
> 
> How much should I allow for the stretchy nature of sharkstooth scrim?
> 
> I've sewn lots of scrim in my days but they are usually on flown sets
> where the finished height of the drop is not so critical.  Anybody
> have any formulae or rules of thumb to apply to this mystery?
> 


Frank.  Scrim tends to stretch as much as it is allowed to.  Keeping the
weight down by using jack chain in the bottom is a good idea.  I'd hang it
about 1.5"  above the deck.  It will probably stretch that much, hit the
deck and then stop.

hope that helps
Bill S.

www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

We stand behind, and under, our work.


------------------------------

From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
Cc: stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com
Subject: RE: "at LEAST an ATF permit"
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:39:06 -0800
Message-ID: <00d401c4e948$986ca2b0$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer>
In-Reply-To: <list-10126064 [at] prxy.net>

I reckon I should be happy as a clam or lark that my former personal
attorney in Erie, Pa. Tom Ridge, has decided to "hang it up." Whew. I
can begin again with the MEK cocktails of the 60's when most of you were
not "active." My friend, O'Leary, with the Milwaukee eleven, died this
year. All hail the molotavs. Doom

-- 
Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. -
www.riskit.com   Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment
Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and
Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops    International
Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jeffrey
E. Salzberg
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2004 6:20 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------


> > In light of both this thread, and the number of "molotov" thread 
> > posts, I'd like to take this opportunity to say "Hello" to the 
> > Homeland Insecurity folks that are undoubtedly monitoring this list 
> > now.
> 
> 
> I had a great laugh when I read this post

I know.  I heard you.

Sincerely,
John Ashcroft


------------------------------

Reply-To: <stagecraft [at] nick.redeggs.co.uk>
From: "Nick Blower" <stagecraft [at] nick.redeggs.co.uk>
Subject: RE: another plexi floor ?
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 01:55:14 -0000
In-Reply-To: <list-9994998 [at] prxy.net>
Message-ID: <MDAEMON-F200412240155.AA5510327md50000010447 [at] redeggs.co.uk>

Tuned in late, but why not use plastic that isn't glossy...? I don't know
any brand names but you can certainly get it in the UK. Also as previously
mentioned why not get plastic that is made translucent - no amount of
scratches will matter then.

HTH


-- 

______________________________________
Nick Blower (nick [at] redeggs.co.uk)
-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Greg Bierly
Sent: 22 December 2004 18:05
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: another plexi floor ?

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

this defeats the purpose of the original poster wanting a matte finish.




------------------------------

Message-ID: <41CB87A2.5EBC23F0 [at] cybercom.net>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:06:10 -0500
From: Dale Farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
Subject: Re: A new one, but related to: RE: DMX512 Question
References: <list-10167060 [at] prxy.net>



"Fitch, Tracy" wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> All of the above leads me to a question I've been pondering since
> discovering the very anomaly described below in my new installation.
>
> All 100+ DMX connections that exist throughout my facility have five
> conductor wire pulled, but only pins 1-3 terminated.  The others are
> heat-shrunk to the body of the cable inside the box.
>
> I was pretty flabbergasted by this.  I guess I could understand the idea
> of going with three conductor wire to save money, but installing a
> standard five-pin cable infrastructure for future DMX patching and not
> wiring the conductors you already pulled?!  It seems very odd.
>
> Anyone else run across this?  I've been told it is both Strand and ETC
> standard termination procedure.

    Well, it doesn't meet the DMX-512 spec, so go back and see what
the contractor promised to do.  Get them back to do it right if they
promised
to install DMX-512 compliant cable plant.   If I had noticed this ( Cue the
chorus: Always be onsite during all work being done by outside contractors,
check frequently to see if they are actually doing what they ought to be
doing. ) I'd have stopped them and made them do it right.
    I don't understand why they would do it.  If you pull in proper two pair

DMX cable, have the correct 5 pin connectors, why they would decide
not to wire up all the wires, according to the damn specification for it.
If Strand and ETC are calling for this as their standard procedure, then
they do not have the right to call them DMX-512. They have to call them
non compliant varients in order to comply with the various truth in
advertising laws.

    --Dale



------------------------------

Message-ID: <BAY24-DAV165FE94650DFD83544CA94BDA60 [at] phx.gbl>
From: "Jason" <OneOccy [at] hotmail.com>
References: <list-10179382 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: How much does scrim stretch?
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:08:50 -0800





Bill is right on this one. Less stretch more density, more stretch less 
density.



> Frank.  Scrim tends to stretch as much as it is allowed to.  Keeping the
> weight down by using jack chain in the bottom is a good idea.  I'd hang it
> about 1.5"  above the deck.  It will probably stretch that much, hit the
> deck and then stop.
>
> hope that helps
> Bill S.
>
> www.sapsis-rigging.com
> 800.727.7471
> 800.292.3851  fax
> 267.278.4561  mobile
>
> We stand behind, and under, our work.
>
> 

------------------------------

From: MissWisc [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <126.5301066a.2efce268 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:09:28 EST
Subject: Re: "at LEAST an ATF permit"

In a message dated 12/23/4 12:15:17 PM, jonares [at] hevanet.com writes:
<< ...But it's WHAT you laughed at, that will raise eyebrows.>>
Oh Jon... you got me there. I laugh often and much. And have laughed loudler 
(a la the European opera "claque") when I know that the performer can hear and 
be motivated by it or when the audience needs a leader.

<<Opened a small business?  Is this some sort of front?>>
Nope. The result of a Wisconsin thing called "QEO" changing the way public 
schools are funded causing massive budget cuts making it impossible for me to 
get a full-time job as a teacher because they can hire someone fresh out of 
college for $20,000 a year less and single bennies rather than family. My business 
started as a way to make $$ during the summer and has expanded into me and 10 
reps working year round. I now teach just 3 mornings a week at a small 
parochial middle school. Mary Kay has the potential for me to earn well into six 
figures. Teaching won't even cover rent and utilities. 

<<Cosmetics on top, but what's under that packing material?>>
More cosmetics, skin care, private spa, and mens' things. With me you get 
what you pay for backed by our 100% satisfaction guarantee and it's the #1 best 
selling brand of skin care and color cosmetics in the USA for the past 10 years 
running. (Sorry, can only ship to USA, Guam, PR, and USVI at this point.) 
Only the best for my clients!

<<College fund for son... or is it?>>
Nah... get out of debt/retirement fund for me. Smart and talented... he'll do 
college on scholarships like I did.

<<And what knowledge did you share with others?>>
Whatever they seem to need/want to know. 

<<Seems you do deal in chemical products.>>
And am on record promoting the limited and responsible use of same by 
frequently trained/tested individuals, keeping MSDS nearby and knowing how to use 
same, safe handling and storage of them, and not using them on children except 
when absolutly necessary. Dr. Doom has asked me to write a book about it.

Kristi R-C
http://www.marykay.com/kross-clausen

------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.0.20041223193956.02971630 [at] localhost>
Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:40:16 -0800
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: Free connectors
In-Reply-To: <list-10168623 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-10168623 [at] prxy.net>

The connectors have been claimed.  Better luck next time.

----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523  USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886
fax:  +1 408 356-4659
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

End of Stagecraft Digest #237
*****************************