Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.6) with PIPE id 14995964; Wed, 19 Jan 2005 03:00:56 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.6 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #264 Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2005 03:00:37 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on prxy.net X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #264 1. Using caribiners by Chuck Mitchell 2. Re: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles by "John Penisten" 3. Re: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles by "Wayne Rasmussen" 4. Re: Karabiner by "Karl G. Ruling" 5. re-posting TD position by Linda Essig 6. Re: Karabiner by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 7. Re: re-posting TD position by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 8. Re: Caribeners (was quick links) by Mark O'Brien 9. Re: Caribeners (was quick links) by Mark O'Brien 10. USB Microphones by Mark Harvey 11. Re: USB Microphones by John McKernon 12. Forced perspective patterns by "LES LIND" 13. Re: USITT Archives by Michael Beyer 14. Re: Karabiner by "Karl G. Ruling" 15. Re: sound design application ideas by CB 16. Pedants by CB 17. Re: sound design application ideas by Charlie Richmond 18. Re: Pedants by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 19. Re: Caribeners (was quick links) by CB 20. Re: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles by CB 21. Re: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles by Charlie Richmond 22. ladders and Lifts general practice by Rich Lindsay 23. Re: ladders and Lifts general practice by Bill Sapsis 24. Re: Using caribiners by Bill Sapsis 25. Re: Pedants by "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" 26. Re: Pedants by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 27. Re: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 28. Re: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 29. Re: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles by "Jack Morones" 30. Re: ladders and Lifts general practice by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 31. Re: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 32. Re: Pedants by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 33. Re: ladders and Lifts general practice by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 34. Re: Caribeners (was quick links) by "Michael Finney" 35. Re: Using caribiners by "Don Taco" 36. Re: ladders and Lifts general practice by "Matthew Breton" 37. Re: ladders and Lifts general practice by Bill Sapsis 38. Sharks Tooth Scrim by "Chris Warner" 39. Re: 2 scene Presets by Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com 40. Re: Sharks Tooth Scrim by John McKernon 41. Re: ladders and Lifts general practice by MissWisc [at] aol.com 42. Re: ladders and Lifts general practice by "Curt Mortimore" 43. Re: OSHA/NFPA Regulations for Theatre by "Bill Conner" 44. Re: ladders and Lifts general practice by James Kosmatka 45. Re: Sharks Tooth Scrim by Greg Bierly 46. Re: ladders and Lifts general practice by Greg Bierly 47. ladders and Lifts general practice, another view. by Samuel Jones *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:39:33 -0600 From: Chuck Mitchell Subject: Using caribiners Message-id: <001c01c4fd73$e85cd1c0$1fe25c90 [at] Chuck> From Bill Sapsis: >there are two applications for caribiners in the rigging business. The first would be taking the bucket with the coffee inside up to >the high steel riggers during breaks. The second would be bringing the bucket back down with the results of taking the coffee up to >the high steel riggers. What if a caribiner fails in this application? Especially the second. Chuck Mitchell Scene Studio Supervisor University Theatre-University of Wisconsin Madison 608-263-3330 FAX 608-265-4075 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41ED2DA8.3020606 [at] fullcompass.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:39:20 -0600 From: "John Penisten" Subject: RE: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles References: In-Reply-To: The two Madison high schools I "consult" at have Express 48/96 consoles. When training new board opps I start by teaching them how to run a show in two scene preset. In my opinion (and it may certainly just be mine) it is far easier to program a show once you have a true feel for timing, and for what the board is trying to do for you. Once an opp has demonstrated competency running a show manually, I will teach them how to program. When I am programming or running a show, I will use a combination of cues, subs, and individual channels as necessary, and in whatever combination makes sense. I love having the flexibility of writing subs for a one off and tweaking the looks during the run with individual channel controls, and not having to look at paperwork for the appropriate channel and key in each change. For my real job, I am primarily doing industrial work where there is no rehearsal. Being able to easily massage a look is a requisite. John I am curious how many of you that have Express-style consoles with Two-Scene operation actually use the two-scene mode during shows. Specifically, are you running your shows with manual crossfades between the two banks of channel faders? Or do you mainly use the channel faders (or keypad) to set your looks, then record them to the cue list using the keypad for playback? -- John Penisten Full Compass Systems Rental, Production, Design http://www.fullcompass.com Phone: 800-356-5844 Ext. 1355 Fax: 608-831-6330 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001401c4fd74$d46c5680$0617000a [at] blair.edu> From: "Wayne Rasmussen" Subject: RE: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:46:09 -0500 We run a 24/48 with 48 dimmers in our studio theater. The space is used for perhaps two shows per year. We run it in channel mode (I prefer to program with faders than the keypad) or with submasters when groups of lights are the preference. The board has never been run in two scene mode in seven years. It would be nice to have all 48 dimmers controlled by individual faders as well as to have access to submasters, but the theater consultant specified the 24/48 rather than the 48/96. Given the number of shows run in the space, it hasn't been enough of a drawback to request another board. Wayne Rasmussen Blair Academy ------------------------------ From: "Karl G. Ruling" Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:35:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Karabiner Reply-to: kruling [at] esta.org Message-ID: <41ECE66F.9941.5A8547 [at] localhost> In-reply-to: Frank Wood wrote: > > Formally, it is Karabiner. It's a German word. I don't know its > etymology, > before anyone asks. > Ein Karabiner is a carbine, a rifle, in German, but my German-English dictionary (the Oxford-Duden German Dictionary) notes that in Austrian ("oesterreichisch" is the word it uses) it's the same as a Karabinerhaken. Ein Karabinerhaken is a snap hook in straight German. However, in mountain climbing applications (Bergsteigen) ein Karabinerhaken is called simply ein Karabiner. Ganz clar? ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 08:49:12 -0700 From: Linda Essig Subject: re-posting TD position Message-id: <6FDC16223A03A6448994101EBF44F1A5F55E37 [at] ex1.asurite.ad.asu.edu> Dear list: We have extended our application deadline to March 1. Special note to those of you who confused "clinical" with "cynical" after my earlier posting: The faculty classification of the position is as a "clinical assistant professor" (i.e. one without research obligations); cynicism, however, would not be considered a positive attribute in the applicant pool. Best wishes to all, Linda=20 Clinical Assistant Professor of Technical Direction. Arizona State University Teach stagecraft and drafting to undergraduate and graduate students. Coordinate and manage the technical elements of all scenic components for Mainstage productions. Technical direct or supervise student technical directors of all Mainstage productions. Supervise student crews who perform technical work. MFA in Technical Direction. Demonstrated ability to teach stagecraft and drafting and professional experience as a technical director desired. Bachelors degree with a major in theatre or related field and two years experience in technical direction, experience in current production technology, demonstrated knowledge of collaborating and demonstrated ability in the organization and management of budgets, equipment, crews, production schedules, stage rigging, and safety required. Deadline March 1, 2005 if not filled the 1st of each month thereafter until search is closed. Submit letter of interest, curriculum vitae, names/addresses/phone numbers of three references to: Clinical Assist. Professor of Technical Direction Search Committee, P. O. Box 872002, Tempe, AZ 85287-2002. AA/EOE Professor Linda Essig Chair and Artistic Director of Theatre Herberger College of Fine Arts Arizona State University Tempe AZ=20 ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Cc: kruling [at] esta.org Subject: RE: Karabiner Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:52:29 -0500 Message-ID: <01ae01c4fd75$ba05cdc0$6401a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > Ein Karabiner is a carbine, a rifle, in German, but my German-English > dictionary (the Oxford-Duden German Dictionary) notes that in > Austrian ("oesterreichisch" is the word it uses) it's the same as a > Karabinerhaken. Ein Karabinerhaken is a snap hook in straight German. > However, in mountain climbing applications (Bergsteigen) ein > Karabinerhaken is called simply ein Karabiner. So now I'm wondering if "Karabinerhaken" originally referred to the clip used to attach a sling to the rifle. ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: re-posting TD position Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:53:49 -0500 Message-ID: <01af01c4fd75$ea24d5a0$6401a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > We have extended our application deadline to March 1. > Special note to those of you who confused "clinical" with > "cynical" after my earlier > posting: The faculty classification of the position is as a > "clinical assistant professor" (i.e. one without research > obligations); cynicism, however, would not be considered a > positive attribute in the applicant pool. If you find an otherwise-qualified TD candidate who is not cynical, please share with the list. Jeff, who is obviously not that person. ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <35988A10-696D-11D9-BD4D-000393897332 [at] email.arizona.edu> Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien) From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: Caribeners (was quick links) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:22:55 -0700 On Jan 17, 2005, at 2:38 PM, Herrick Goldman wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > Well it's confusing if you've ever worked in the corporate trade show > world. > > I believe the tool is caribiner but the former company was Carabiner > but I > may be reversing that. > > > Carabiner merged with Jack Morton to become CarJack some years ago. > > -H > > Actually, Caribiner, ( the company ) IS spelled like caribiner, the rock climbing gear. The reason for that is that the fellow who started Caribiner, was the mountain climbing type. Mark O'Brien Opera Technical Director University of Arizona, School of Music Tucson, AZ 520/621-7025 520/591-1803 Mobile ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien) From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: Caribeners (was quick links) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 09:28:30 -0700 On Jan 18, 2005, at 9:22 AM, Mark O'Brien wrote: > Actually, > > Caribiner, ( the company ) IS spelled like caribiner, the rock > climbing gear. > > The reason for that is that the fellow who started Caribiner, was the > mountain climbing type. > > > Really though the American English spelling is Carabiner for the gear. (found that in the dictionary ) Caribiner for the company. ( Found that on an old memo ) The founder still liked to rock climb. > > Mark O'Brien > Opera Technical Director > University of Arizona, School of Music > Tucson, AZ > 520/621-7025 > 520/591-1803 Mobile > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 10:30:26 -0600 From: Mark Harvey Subject: USB Microphones Message-ID: <2147483647.1106044226 [at] umd52-36.d.umn.edu> In-Reply-To: References: Any suggestions for a quality USB microphone? I purchased a Labtec 704, but it's no better than the computer's built-in microphone. Thanks for any suggestions. ____________________________________ Mark Harvey Associate Professor, Theatrical Lighting and Sound Design University of Minnesota Duluth http://www.d.umn.edu/~mharvey ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:02:06 -0500 Subject: Re: USB Microphones From: John McKernon Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > Any suggestions for a quality USB microphone? I purchased a Labtec > 704, but it's no better than the computer's built-in microphone. I have a gooseneck USB "MicFlex" mic from MacMice that has better quality than anything else I've seen. Here's the URL: http://www.dvforge.com/micflex.shtml - John McKernon ------------------------------ Message-Id: Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:28:04 -0500 From: "LES LIND" Subject: Forced perspective patterns The director came to me yesterday and asked if I knew if there were any patterns to build forced perspective props. I told him I would take it to the wisdom of the list. A little background...we're doing 7 Brides for 7 Brothers. The high school stage is a typical raised stage with raked auditorium seating. The director thinks the "dinner table" will not play well to the audience, hiding the bothers on the backside of the table. How do others handle this situation with tables, beds, etc.? Les Les Lind, TD NHS Dramatics Northeastern High School Manchester, PA ------------------------------ Message-ID: <468d228205011809544c7b6ea3 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:54:09 -0500 From: Michael Beyer Reply-To: Michael Beyer Cc: scparker [at] gmail.com (Scott Parker) Subject: Re: USITT Archives In-Reply-To: References:

Or you may be looking for this - the project 2000 design archives with photos of designs and stuff? http://www.siue.edu/ITDA/ Michael On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 22:17:49 -0500, Scott Parker wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Me thinks you are looking for: > http://info.nwmissouri.edu/~pimmel/usitt/source_guide/index.htm > > Scott > > On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 14:02:36 -1000, Shell Dalzell > wrote: > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > > > Some time ago, about a year or two, someone posted a web link to the USITT > > archives through the University of Missouri Theater Department. I think. I > > have lost the link. Does anyone else have it? > > > > Aloha, Shell > > > > > > > -- > Take care, Scott > > Scott C. Parker > -- www.mjblightdesign.com ------------------------------ From: "Karl G. Ruling" Cc: stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com (Jeffrey E. Salzberg) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:01:44 -0500 Subject: RE: Karabiner Reply-to: kruling [at] esta.org Message-ID: <41ED08B8.22186.E0702D [at] localhost> In-reply-to: <01ae01c4fd75$ba05cdc0$6401a8c0 [at] Dell> References: > > So now I'm wondering if "Karabinerhaken" originally referred to the > clip used to attach a sling to the rifle. That was what I was thinking. My dictionary doesn't go into etimology, so it doesn't say and I don't know for sure. German's a lot like English (or vice versa). Words get shortened, words get created by adding words to each other, and things pick up names by being associated with other things. For an example in English, in rock and roll staging, you'll hear about people using "Kabuki drops" for quick scene changes. In Kabuki the drop has a very specific Japanese name (which I have forgotten), but for Westerners it is the way-cool effect they notice when they see a Kabuki show, so it is known as a "Kabuki drop" when taken out of that context and used on other shows. In similar fashion, I imagine, the clip on a rifle's sling becomes a rifle clip (Karabinerhaken), and that gets shortened to the name from the rifle. Then the hefty spring clip used in mountain climbing picks up the name from the rifle's sling clip because it is similar. The result is that now we have people holding their keys on their belts with a word that originally described a rifle. --At least, so I theorize. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050118114542.00b6de58 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:45:42 From: CB Subject: Re: sound design application ideas >The most successful sound design documentation, in my experience, is a good >resume accompanied by good references regarding one's performance in >sound. The problem with playing "greatest hits" is that a good effect >designed for a particular theatre usually sounds crappy when played as a >stand-alone item. The context is all important. Yeah, I know I reposted ALL of John's post in reply, but this time it was worth it. And, John isn't very long-winded, so the post-to-crap ratio is really high with him. I never sent a resume out unless it was as a result of a request for one. As in, "We want to hire you, but (insert check writing authority here) needs to have a resume." My gigs have all come as a result of someone hearing my work, or someone who has heard my work suggesting me. I did, however, start sound design at the 'My dad's got a barn' level. Context... HMMmm... Well, some of the cues I create are meant to reach out to some little portion of the rat brain while your frontal lobes are distracted by the arm flailing, flashing lights and pretty costumes. These work best when its dark and warm, and I can send 'em at you while you're strapped (metaphorically) in your chair with no place to run. These will tickle your pain/pleasure centers, or trigger flight/fight instincts, and try to engage you in the action on an emotional level. Listening to a tape of these cues in a sterile office, naked to the harsh, revealing green glow of flourescents, stripped of their dark cloak of distraction, these cues are about as powerful as a bowl of newborn hamsters. Nothing but pink mewlings. Most people don't want to see the zipper on the monster, it tends to ruin their nightmares. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound OTR Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050118115130.00b6de58 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 11:51:30 From: CB Subject: Pedants >Ob-Pedants: Yes I know that a podium is something you stand on, and a >lectern is what you stand behind, but nearly everyone I know calls the >lectern a podium now. And when I called the local NBC affiliate to ask them why they were having their 'Millenuim extravaganza" a year before the new millenium, their response was, "Everyone thinks its '99 to 2000, so were jsut going with it. When popular opinion replaces knowledge, what could be next? I use the word lectern in the presence of those who would call it podium, educate them, cross my fingers and move on. No, I can't change the world, but I can work on those I have to be near. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound OTR Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:53:59 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: sound design application ideas In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, CB wrote: > Well, some of the cues I create are meant to reach > out to some little portion of the rat brain while your frontal lobes are > distracted by the arm flailing, flashing lights and pretty costumes. These > work best when its dark and warm, and I can send 'em at you while you're > strapped (metaphorically) in your chair with no place to run. These will > tickle your pain/pleasure centers, or trigger flight/fight instincts, and > try to engage you in the action on an emotional level. Listening to a tape > of these cues in a sterile office, naked to the harsh, revealing green glow > of flourescents, stripped of their dark cloak of distraction, these cues > are about as powerful as a bowl of newborn hamsters. Nothing but pink > mewlings. > Most people don't want to see the zipper on the monster, it tends to ruin > their nightmares. This is truly one of your most brilliant renderings, Chris, and well worth repeating! LOL Charlie ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Pedants Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 13:58:00 -0500 Message-ID: <01c801c4fd8f$a5173a10$6401a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > No, I can't change the world, but I can work on those I have > to be near. As someone (OK, it was I) said in another thread, "If all people do is say, "That's the way it is," then that's the way it stays. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050118120313.00b6de58 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:03:13 From: CB Subject: Re: Caribeners (was quick links) > Formally, it is Karabiner. It's a German word. I don't know its etymology, >before anyone asks. It came from "Karabinerhaken", (carbine hooks) used to attach the sling to the rifle in a hurry. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound OTR Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050118120843.00b6de58 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 12:08:43 From: CB Subject: Re: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles >S--i--g--h. Why is that the person who really knows what's needed in a new >building never gets hired until after the building is completed? Because 'they' have noticed that it is far cheaper to build to idiots specs than to build to actual specs. Your way would have cost more, therefore it must be wrong... ; > ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 20:03:54 +0000 (GMT) From: Charlie Richmond Subject: Re: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, CB wrote: > Because 'they' have noticed that it is far cheaper to build to idiots specs > than to build to actual specs. Your way would have cost more, therefore it > must be wrong... ; > Oh, no. I disagree completely. Many consultants get paid a percentage of the contract so there is little incentive to keep the contract cost low. Many negotiate bonuses based on whether they stay under budget. This is not the same as keeping costs down because the incentive is still to budget high and come in lower, pocketing the savings. Inflation often has to be allowed for a the maximum possible value so anything saved there can also be claimed. Most consultants also try to spec in expensive equipment so they can't be blamed for skimping on the design. It's the old saying 'You will never go wrong by specing IBM' Charlie ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:04:33 -0500 From: Rich Lindsay Subject: ladders and Lifts general practice Message-ID: <991D7AB091C3FCB03847F4FF [at] staff-38.uprod.music.umich.edu> In-Reply-To: References: I know this has been covered over the years...... I was having an interesting discussion and the old practice of moving "gennie lifts" and "a-frame" ladders with people up in/on them came up. Who among us hasent seen an a-frame on a castered dolly. My interest to the list members is do you still see this practiced? Is this against the law? (I just assumed so) (just thought some experts could confirm this) How do you get people to change old habits? Rich ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:24:34 -0500 Subject: Re: ladders and Lifts general practice From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 1/18/05 3:04 PM, Rich Lindsay at rlindsay [at] umich.edu wrote: > I know this has been covered over the years...... > > I was having an interesting discussion and the old practice of moving > "gennie lifts" and "a-frame" ladders with people up in/on them came up. Who > among us hasent seen an a-frame on a castered dolly. > > My interest to the list members is do you still see this practiced? > > Is this against the law? (I just assumed so) (just thought some experts > could confirm this) > > How do you get people to change old habits? Yes, people still do it. Yes, it is illegal....dangerous....and stupid Stop them? Use a bigger hammer? Take the wheels off the lift? hide the lift? I dunno. Nothing has worked so far. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, and under, our work. ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:28:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Using caribiners From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 1/18/05 10:39 AM, Chuck Mitchell at chmitche [at] wisc.edu wrote: > What if a caribiner fails in this application? Especially the second. Don't stand under it www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, and under, our work. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <886EF25AF8BEF64EB89A820EF84064FF0B9AB099 [at] UCMAIL4> From: "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" Subject: RE: Pedants Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 16:16:07 -0500 Steve Waxler Technical Director College Conservatory of Music University of Cincinnati -----Original Message----- From: Jeffrey E. Salzberg [mailto:stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 1:58 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Pedants For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- > No, I can't change the world, but I can work on those I have > to be near. As someone (OK, it was I) I think it is (OK, I think it was ME) ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <142.3d708f3c.2f1eebe1 [at] aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:46:57 EST Subject: Re: Pedants In a message dated 18/01/05 18:52:32 GMT Standard Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes: > When popular opinion replaces knowledge, what could be next? > I use the word lectern in the presence of those who would call it podium, > educate them, cross my fingers and move on. No, I can't change the world, > but I can work on those I have to be near. Keep on trying. I don't think that we shall win, but it is a worthwhile cause. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <12a.54ea16c2.2f1ef1b2 [at] aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:11:46 EST Subject: Re: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles In a message dated 18/01/05 19:10:51 GMT Standard Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes: > >S--i--g--h. Why is that the person who really knows what's needed in a new > > >building never gets hired until after the building is completed? > > Because 'they' have noticed that it is far cheaper to build to idiots specs > than to build to actual specs. Your way would have cost more, therefore it > must be wrong... ; > And also, to be fair, because the requirements change between the building's conception and its realisation. Sometimes these changes are very fast. The original specification may well have been OK when it was written, even if the bean counters pared it down. The rule is to ask for more than you think you need NOW, and to accept minor reductions. Another rule is to have the specifications written by a real engineer. This means telling your contractors what you want the system to do, rather than usurping his design team by telling them how to do it. As an instance, a few years ago we had our SM desk updated. I wrote a perfectly good specification, stating who needed to be able to talk to whom, and when and how. The guy who was managing the project simply said "We want a two-ring Tech-Pro system", and that's what we got. Many of us have learnt to live with it, but the first thing I do is to remove it from the LX OP station, and to rely on the cue lights and telephone. I know that many of you find my views heretical, and I don't want to open the whole thread again. That said, somewhere back on the thread I remember a reference to the dimmers being 500' from the outlets they feed. This is just plain bad engineering. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <192.37963441.2f1ef28e [at] aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:15:26 EST Subject: Re: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles In a message dated 18/01/05 20:06:42 GMT Standard Time, charlier [at] RichmondSoundDesign.com writes: > > Because 'they' have noticed that it is far cheaper to build to idiots specs > > than to build to actual specs. Your way would have cost more, therefore > it > > must be wrong... ; > > > Oh, no. I disagree completely. Many consultants get paid a percentage of > the > contract so there is little incentive to keep the contract cost low. Many > negotiate bonuses based on whether they stay under budget. This is not the > same > as keeping costs down because the incentive is still to budget high and come > in > lower, pocketing the savings. Inflation often has to be allowed for a the > maximum possible value so anything saved there can also be claimed. Most > consultants also try to spec in expensive equipment so they can't be blamed > for > skimping on the design. It's the old saying 'You will never go wrong by > specing > IBM' Charlie, you are abominably cynical. And also very experienced. You know the way the real world works. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "Jack Morones" Subject: RE: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:16:35 -0800 Organization: Saddleback College Message-ID: <000001c4fdb3$c18308e0$6500a8c0 [at] SCJACKLT> In-Reply-To: We have an ETC Express 24/48 in our Studio Theatre. The system is used either for playback of pre-programmed cues or in submaster groups. We often use subs for the Q&D one day event. I don't believe we have ever used the 2 scene mode. Jack R. Morones Production Manager McKinney Theatre -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Sarah Clausen Sent: Monday, January 17, 2005 8:36 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Hi all - I look to the wisdom of the list... I am curious how many of you that have Express-style consoles with Two-Scene operation actually use the two-scene mode during shows. Specifically, are you running your shows with manual crossfades between the two banks of channel faders? Or do you mainly use the channel faders (or keypad) to set your looks, then record them to the cue list using the keypad for playback? If you are using the two-scene operation for playback, how many channels do you typically run in that way? Enquiring minds would like to know - Thanks much! Sarah Sarah Clausen Product Manager Electronic Theatre Controls, Inc. ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:30:14 EST Subject: Re: ladders and Lifts general practice In a message dated 18/01/05 20:07:06 GMT Standard Time, rlindsay [at] umich.edu writes: > I was having an interesting discussion and the old practice of moving > "gennie lifts" and "a-frame" ladders with people up in/on them came up. Who > among us hasent seen an a-frame on a castered dolly. Funnily enough, I haven't, and I thought I had seen most insanitary rigging practices. Hell, I've done some. Being moved up a tallescope, with no outriggers, moving myself when up a tower by hauling on the grid, yes. But A-frames on castors are new to me. > > My interest to the list members is do you still see this practiced? > > Is this against the law? (I just assumed so) (just thought some experts > could confirm this) This, I think, depends on where you are, and on your AHJ. The AHJ has powers delegated to it by state law. The OSHA also has some. It is, frankly, a legal jungle. There is a way out, though. Common sense provides you with a machete. > > How do you get people to change old habits? With great difficulty. But, in the modern world, Either they will have to, or retire. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1e6.330af96b.2f1ef8bc [at] aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 18:41:48 EST Subject: Re: Two-Scene Operation of Lighting Consoles In a message dated 18/01/05 23:17:22 GMT Standard Time, jmorones [at] saddleback.edu writes: > We have an ETC Express 24/48 in our Studio Theatre. The system is used > either for playback of pre-programmed cues or in submaster groups. We > often use subs for the Q&D one day event. I don't believe we have ever > used the 2 scene mode. It depends on your personal history, and on the nature of your show. I can't comment on the latter, except to say that any lighting cue is a transition from one lighting state to another. No more, and no less. If you can reset a two-scene board fast enough it will work. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Pedants Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:18:00 -0500 Message-ID: <01f001c4fdbc$58cf5c00$6401a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > > No, I can't change the world, but I can work on those I have > > to be near. > > As someone (OK, it was I) I think it is (OK, I think it was ME) It's nominative, so "It was I", although it may sound funny, is correct. We could make it easier, though, and just blame Frank. ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: ladders and Lifts general practice Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:00:48 -0800 Message-ID: <00fb01c4fdc2$5132c120$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-Reply-To: I know this shall engender grief from specific parties, however.... Bill is correct in his total comment. My experience, both from litigation and risk assessments, as well as observations, is that this horrific practice continues nearly unabated. All we can do is continue all of our remonstrance's and go with the hammer, as Bill suggests. My course of action has been to pummel, but that is my choice. Doom -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Bill Sapsis Sent: Tuesday, January 18, 2005 12:25 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: ladders and Lifts general practice For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- on 1/18/05 3:04 PM, Rich Lindsay at rlindsay [at] umich.edu wrote: > I know this has been covered over the years...... > > I was having an interesting discussion and the old practice of moving > "gennie lifts" and "a-frame" ladders with people up in/on them came up. Who > among us hasent seen an a-frame on a castered dolly. > > My interest to the list members is do you still see this practiced? > > Is this against the law? (I just assumed so) (just thought some experts > could confirm this) > > How do you get people to change old habits? Yes, people still do it. Yes, it is illegal....dangerous....and stupid Stop them? Use a bigger hammer? Take the wheels off the lift? hide the lift? I dunno. Nothing has worked so far. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, and under, our work. ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Caribeners (was quick links) Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:37:21 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Michael Finney" On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 20:26:32 -0500 Bill Sapsis wrote: <> Yippee! I've finally got the latest/greatest version of Outlook *and* my mail server to let me post again. The frustration level was intense.... I'm going to weigh in and agree with Bill completely on this. The 'biners that Andrew specs for the ATM are probably completely appropriate for the application (knowing Andrew, they're probably overkill...as I recall, they're actually rescue hardware and not sport climbing hardware) - but there are some inherent "issues" with climbing hardware that makes it a poor choice for daily use in overhead rigging (and I'm speaking as a recreational climber and rope/rescue nerd with a lot of painfully intimate knowledge of climbing hardware). =20 The biggest issue is that climbing hardware is a compromise between durability and weight - in other words, they're designed and fabricated to weigh as little as possible while still maintaining the ability to protect against a limited number of extreme shock loads (you know, like falls and such). As a personal piece of climbing hardware, the assumption is that you know how many falls that carabiner has seen, how severe the falls were, how long the piece has been in service, etc. etc...and that you'll retire the piece after the appropriate period of time. Some pieces are designed and fabricated for longer and more rigorous use (witness the rack of rescue hardware in my truck...which weighs at least double what my sport climbing rack weighs), but none of it is really designed and fabricated for industrial use where it's going to see more abuse and will have an unknown history of use. In other words (and boy, this sounds odd!) - I'm comfortable using carabiners (my own rack, anyway) to hold my tired old butt if I take a fall while climbing, and I'm even comfortable using carabiners (bigger, stronger ones) to haul *your* butt up the side of a sharp drop if I need to, but I'm *not* going to use 'em to hang anything over either of our heads..... But I'm old and cautious! And seem to continue getting older all the time......Bill is, of course, ageless.... Michael Finney Thinkwell Design & Production mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com www.thinkwelldesign.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <008f01c4fdc8$74cfd2c0$e28aaa43 [at] DonTaco> From: "Don Taco" References: Subject: Re: Using caribiners Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 17:44:45 -0800 > on 1/18/05 10:39 AM, Chuck Mitchell at chmitche [at] wisc.edu wrote: > >> What if a caribiner fails in this application? Especially the second. You're worried about being under the bucket if it spills, after being willing to stand under it while it was being filled? ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Matthew Breton" Subject: RE: ladders and Lifts general practice Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:26:57 -0500 >I was having an interesting discussion and the old practice of moving >"gennie lifts" and "a-frame" ladders with people up in/on them came up. Who >among us hasent seen an a-frame on a castered dolly. >My interest to the list members is do you still see this practiced? Is this >against the law? (I just >assumed so) (just thought some experts could >confirm this) How do you get people to change old >habits? It's not so much against the law as it is bad practice. You could probably ask for anecdotes about injuries while on castered A-frames and the list would come up with a few. I know of a few places where they use castered A-frames, and continue to do so, for one simple reason: the convenience outweighs the risk. If there were a better, simpler, safer, cheaper solution, they'd probably be doing it. But the time lost climbing down the ladder, moving it, and climbing back up every three or four lights can double or triple the length of a focus call. And time is money, and money talks. Not condoning the practice; just trying to express why it happens. When we can deal with that, we can work toward a solution. -- Matt ======= _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:02:17 -0500 Subject: Re: ladders and Lifts general practice From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 1/18/05 9:26 PM, Matthew Breton at theatricalmatt [at] hotmail.com wrote: > It's not so much against the law as it is bad practice. You could probably > ask for anecdotes about injuries while on castered A-frames and the list > would come up with a few. > > I know of a few places where they use castered A-frames, and continue to do > so, for one simple reason: the convenience outweighs the risk. If there were > a better, simpler, safer, cheaper solution, they'd probably be doing it. But > the time lost climbing down the ladder, moving it, and climbing back up > every three or four lights can double or triple the length of a focus call. > And time is money, and money talks. > > Not condoning the practice; just trying to express why it happens. When we > can deal with that, we can work toward a solution. True. "law" is a bad term here. but there are regulations against the practice that have the force of law. Putting an A-Frame on wheels breaks all the rules in the book and if there is an accident the negligence claims go through the roof. Ands, yes, it's done all the time because there is no alternative. At the moment. The practice is dangerous. I know people who have died because of it and people who have been seriously injured. And still the practice goes on. But what would happen if everyone said "No, I won't do this anymore. It's too dangerous." Maybe, just maybe, we'd then find a better way. Hey, it could happen. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile We stand behind, and under, our work. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <052e01c4fdd4$92141420$6501a8c0 [at] chris> From: "Chris Warner" Subject: Sharks Tooth Scrim Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 19:11:29 -0800 I am working with a production that is going to be using a sharks tooth scrim. I have never worked with a scrim and the desire of the director is to be able to hide what is happening behind the scrim for scene changes, and use the scrim to create a dream like look on stage. My question is for making a scrim opaque what is the best side to light it from, the upstage or down stage side? I have an electric on the upstage side, but it's quite a throw for cyc lights. My preference is to use the electric on the downstage side. Thanks in advance Chris -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.7.0 - Release Date: 1/17/2005 ------------------------------ Subject: Re: 2 scene Presets Message-ID: From: Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:23:13 -0500 Sarah Clausen wrote: "Hi all - I look to the wisdom of the list... I am curious how many of you that have Express-style consoles with Two-Scene operation actually use the two-scene mode during shows. Specifically, are you running your shows with manual crossfades between the two banks of channel faders? Or do you mainly use the channel faders (or keypad) to set your looks, then record them to the cue list using the keypad for playback? If you are using the two-scene operation for playback, how many channels do you typically run in that way? Enquiring minds would like to know -=20 Thanks much! Sarah Sarah Clausen Product Manager Electronic Theatre Controls, Inc." I'm a 1736 seat booking house. When the place re-opened October 2000 after a major renovation the main console was an Obsession II and the backup an Express 72/144. My then M.E. never used the Obsession: she (wisely) held that any show needing that much capability carried their own console and it was way overkill for the simpler shows. The 72/144 handles just about all we need. Road smart M.E.'s & L.D's maintain a disk library: once they've programmed a new type of console, copies are made then carried or sent ahead so we can pop a disk in and patch. About 30% of shows just want my M.E. to: "Make it look nice." so the drill is subs for color washes, sliders for parts of washes: ie " Blue Bax", "Amber F/L", etc. etc. and then a slider each for specials. We frequently use a top bank for a series of basic looks and sliders as described on the lower bank to vary them. I remember Sarah's last question: We use the B.O. button too, sometimes crossfades or B.O. & bump as appropriate. It's amazing how many shows provide color info for a 3 or 4 color wash and let us 'mix' the show based on a set list. We'll do 159 shows between October and May, often a matinee and a different event that evening. Frantic? Yes! When we can we'll tweak a basic hang into 3 or four days of shows: Chuck Lawson, my M.E., gives them great looks and gets a lot of kudos. When someone sends a plot we'll hang that and use it `til the next one comes or we have to strip for a tour that's carrying. It's amazing how great Rock & Roll can look under a ballet plot with all that pipe end sidelight. The 2 scene is invaluable for the heavy schedule my booking fiend boss likes but it is a seasonal town. It takes awhile to learn to make it up as you go along and it's certainly not the best way but it can work surprisingly well. We aren't heavily into movers, folks who want them usually spec what they want. I do have 2 VL 1's which are great for last minute specials and changes: flags, easels or flowers that appear at half hour but mainly because in 40 years I don't think I ever focused a special on a lectern (yeah that thread too, sorry Noah) that some damnfool didn't move it five minutes before curtain time. Saves that frantic run to the FOH cove. Once we set a dozen or so focus points it works great. BTW - the Obsession has a new home at the Opera House where it's capabilities are needed and appreciated. Cheers, Marty Petlock Technical Facilities Manager Van Wezel P.A.H. Sarasota, FL. ********** E-mail messages sent or received by City of Sarasota officials and employees in connection with official City business are public records subject to disclosure under the Florida Public Records Act. ********** ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:26:46 -0500 Subject: Re: Sharks Tooth Scrim From: John McKernon Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > My question is for > making a scrim opaque what is the best side to light it from, the upstage or > down stage side? Light it at a steep angle from the front (striplights are fine), and be absolutely sure you have a blackout drop behind it to cover the scene changes. Think of scrim as a collection of holes held together by thread. - John McKernon ------------------------------ From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1ea.3464d6aa.2f1f314f [at] aol.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 22:43:11 EST Subject: Re: Re: ladders and Lifts general practice In a message dated 1/18/5 8:27:37 PM, theatricalmatt [at] hotmail.com wrote: <> Oh Matt! Please no. The risk is you DIE. Any "inconvenience" pales in comparison. Climb the ladder multiple times. Have someone hold it whle you're up there. Better yet, get a Genie lift and let the machine do the work. That's what it's made for. And keep the outriggers deployed. Kristi ------------------------------ Subject: RE: ladders and Lifts general practice Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:47:55 -0600 Message-ID: From: "Curt Mortimore" I don't pretend to be any kind of expert here but I do feel compelled to comment. << the convenience outweighs the risk. If there were=20 a better, simpler, safer, cheaper solution, they'd probably be doing it. But=20 the time lost climbing down the ladder, moving it, and climbing back up=20 every three or four lights can double or triple the length of a focus call.=20 And time is money, and money talks.>> Speaking directly to A-frames on casters. I know there are scaffold manufacturers out there that make rolling scaffolding units which could easily replace most of the A-frames-on-wheels I have seen. Even if you can't move the scaffold with a person on it the larger platform allows you to do more work per move. Not to mention that ANY (properly assembled) work platform I have EVER seen was much safer and more enjoyable to work from than ANY perch I have EVER encountered at the top of a wiggily A-frame. Okay, Okay, I know they cost money. Get over it. I am willing to bet that the price of one insurance claim for a fall from the top of any A-frame ladder would easily pay for appropriate replacement scaffolds or lifts. Without even considering how close the victim came to DEATH!!!! I have a friend (now confined to wheelchair) who can tell you about almost freezing to death after falling off a ladder. I don't accept "we can't afford to do it safe" as any kind of an argument. As far as how to prevent use of such equipment. I have, on more than one occasion, found that cordless saws, late nights and conveniently located dumpsters make light work of offending caster platforms and any wooden fiberglass or aluminum ladders that others may be hesitant to retire. Check when the dumpster gets emptied and that sucker will be miles away before anyone even knows it's gone. Fight the good battle, safety is everyone's responsibility. Curtis L. Mortimore Graceland University 1 University Place Lamoni, IA 50140 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001801c4fdd8$6f033160$4a8aa92a [at] schulershook.net> Reply-To: "Bill Conner" From: "Bill Conner" Subject: Re: OSHA/NFPA Regulations for Theatre Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 21:39:07 -0600 Well, good timing to the questioner. I happen to be in the big easy at a 3 day meeting of the NFPA 80 committee - Fire Doors and Windows (which now will include fire safety curtains) - and both the staff person and a member of the 701 committee are here. So I ask about the old match test and learn it is now NFPA 705 - Recommended Practice for a Field Flame Test for Textiles and Films. While there appears to be some reason to question the reliability of this test, it is probably the test that you can do and make a case. We briefly discussed the long rant issues and there is concern that treatments only last a few years. NFPA (and ESTA) codes and standards are developed by consensus. Unfortunately, participating costs - money for travel and time - which is money. Therefore, those that can afford to (or a very few of us who do it out of passion) drive the agenda. A lot of manufacturers and industry association people. Don't get me wrong - by and large they are very fine people with good intentions. Obviously some one representing sprinklers believes strongly in sprinklers. And so on. But you're right - no one invests effort in coming up with reasonable solutions for your curtains: reasonable requirements, simple tests, and so on. You can get involved. I assure you that if you submitted a proposal for a change that it would be seriously considered. If you need help, getting started, contact me off line. We'll look at dates and cycles and develop a plan. I'll use my contacts and see what suggestions they might have. In the end, it may be hard to justify much relaxation or change but trying to get some acknowledgement or consideration for stages seems possible. That's the best I can do. Regards, Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <41EDDE92.3010409 [at] cleveland-theater.com> Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:14:10 -0500 From: James Kosmatka Subject: Re: ladders and Lifts general practice References: In-Reply-To: I worked (as a student) at a university which does this frequently, both with an A-frame and a Genie lift. I'd be hard pressed to say that I wouldn't take the convenience over the safety. Shameful, but true. Though I'm young and dumb and naive. Hopefully I'll grow out of it. If I live that long. -james Rich Lindsay wrote: > I was having an interesting discussion and the old practice of moving > "gennie lifts" and "a-frame" ladders with people up in/on them came > up. Who among us hasent seen an a-frame on a castered dolly. > > My interest to the list members is do you still see this practiced? ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: Sharks Tooth Scrim Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:15:11 -0500 light it from the front to make it opaque. Take the light off the scrim and light the scene behind it to make it "transparent". Vary the relationship between the two and you vary your level of translucency (wow, spell check says that is really a word). Good luck and play around with intesity, angle, color and see what variations you can get. (if you have time) > >> My question is for >> making a scrim opaque what is the best side to light it from, the >> upstage or >> down stage side? ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: ladders and Lifts general practice Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:21:54 -0500 > Even if you > can't move the scaffold with a person on it the larger platform allows > you to do more work per move. Not to mention that ANY (properly > assembled) work platform I have EVER seen was much safer and more > enjoyable to work from than ANY perch I have EVER encountered at the > top > of a wiggily A-frame. The 30' A-frame I learned on 15 years ago had an amazing feature. It had so much play at full extension you could focus 4 instruments comfortably, then shift your weight to make the extension swing to reach 3 or 4 more. That is pretty close to what I could get off a piece of scaffolding. Hindsight 20-20 I would never send a student up on a deathtrap like that. BTW it did have wheels on it. Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <5E18B0E8-69EB-11D9-B11F-000393BB489C [at] ucla.edu> From: Samuel Jones Subject: ladders and Lifts general practice, another view. Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2005 23:26:00 -0800 Everyone here (except me) has said moving the lift with someone in the air is too dangerous to be allowed. I would postulate that is true, only if you do it in a dangerous manner. It is legal to drive at very high speeds on some roads in Nevada and Montana, but it is still crazy to drive 100 miles an hour. I can safely rotate a genie with a man in the basket in order to adjust (and make more safe) his position for focusing a light. I can move a lift up to 6 feet safely to get to the next light. In order to do these things, I require flat stage clear of obstacles. I require 2 guys on the ground to move the genie, a third if it is corded. I require that the lift be moved very slowly, which is not a problem when rotating or moving short distances. I require that the outriggers be touching the ground. No, they are not tightened down; the lift wont move if they are. I do not allow the lift to move to the other side of the stage with a man in the air. I will not use, let alone move, a lift on a rake of any kind unless it is leveled and by its outriggers or the manufacturer's add on, and then it still cannot be moved with a man in the basket. And, after a reckless youth, I am methodical about maintaining these conditions. None of this lessens my liability should an accident happen. All the reports that I can remember reading on this list and have heard about in conversation involved lifts running into objects, or lifts not using their outriggers, or lifts being used on raked stages, or lifts being used in outdoor windy conditions. One of the things that I consider the most dangerous is moving the lift too fast, and yet I haven't yet heard a report of a lift with its outriggers deployed going over because it was just moving to fast. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened; it just means I haven't heard about it or read about it on this list. Now, you can operate a lift safely with 2 guys, one up and one down if you don't plan to move it. Since my conditions require 3 to 4 guys, including the guy in the air, it might be debatable as to which is more economical. Still, I maintain that you can move a lift with a man in the air safely. And, you can move a lift recklessly. The same can be said for a car. You can die in both. The pressures to move fast in our business are large, and the hours are often long and late. All of this can lead to carelessness and dangerous behavior, but, I'm sorry, if you're careful, a man in the air on a lift can be moved safely. I admit that nothing will absolve you from liability, so you make the call. I do every week. Sam Samuel L. Jones Theater Production Supervisor Dept. of World Arts and Cultures, UCLA sjones [at] arts.ucla.edu ========================================================== ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #264 *****************************