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For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Stagecraft Digest, Issue #282

 1. Re: piano tuning
    by "Alf Sauve" <alf [at] sauve.org>
 2. Re: We Ride (hopefully)
    by Greg Williams <gwilliams [at] appstate.edu>
 3. Re: DMX512-A
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
 4. Re: piano tuning
    by "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" <jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com>
 5. Re: We Ride (hopefully)
    by mconn [at] cumberlandcollege.edu
 6. Re: Piano tuner
    by "Karl G. Ruling" <kruling [at] esta.org>
 7. Re: We Ride!!
    by Loren Schreiber <lschreib [at] mail.sdsu.edu>
 8. Re: Archives Problem and Tool Question
    by "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" <WAXLERS [at] UCMAIL.UC.EDU>
 9. Re: piano tuning
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
10. Re: piano tuning
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
11. Re: piano tuning
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
12. Re: forklifting piano
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
13. Re: Piano tuner
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
14. Periaktoi
    by Arthur Williams <awilliams [at] olivetcollege.edu>
15. Re: forklifting piano
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
16. Re: piano tuning
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
17. Re: Periaktoi
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
18. Re: piano tuning
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
19. Re: We Ride!!
    by "John Vink" <jvink [at] johnsonsystems.com>
20. Re: Periaktoi
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
21. KC
    by "Cyr, Dale" <Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com>
22. Re: Automated fixture comparison
    by Mark Harvey <mharvey [at] d.umn.edu>
23. Re: Slightly OT: Insurance and the freelancer
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
24. Re: piano tuning
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
25. Re: Periaktoi
    by Mark O'Brien <marko [at] email.arizona.edu>
26. Freelance Status
    by roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com
27. Re: piano tuning
    by "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>
28. Re: Freelance Status
    by "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" <WAXLERS [at] UCMAIL.UC.EDU>
29. Re: Freelance Status
    by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
30. Re: Freelance Status
    by Boyd Ostroff <ostroff [at] operaphilly.com>
31. Re: Freelance Status
    by roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com
32. Re: Freelance Status
    by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
33. Re: Freelance Status
    by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
34. Re: Freelance Status
    by "Joshua Webb" <jwebb [at] worcesteracademy.org>
35. Re: Freelance Status
    by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
36. listening assistance systems
    by "Jack Morones" <jmorones [at] saddleback.edu>
37. Re: Archives Problem and Tool Question
    by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
38. Re: listening assistance systems
    by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
39. Re: KC
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
40. Re: Freelance Status
    by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
41. Re: Freelance Status
    by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
42. Re: Periaktoi
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
43. Re: Freelance Status
    by "Scott C. Parker" <stagecraftlist [at] hstech.org>
44. Re: listening assistance systems
    by "Michael S. Eddy" <mseddy2900 [at] hotmail.com>
45. Re: listening assistance systems
    by "Rob Carovillano" <rcarovillano [at] verizon.net>
46. Re: listening assistance systems
    by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
47. Re: listening assistance systems
    by "David A. McNell" <dmcnell [at] newcomb-boyd.com>
48. Re: KC
    by "Cyr, Dale" <Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com>
49. Re: Freelance Status
    by roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com
50. Palm Trees
    by roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com
51. Re: We Ride!! Gas Mileage
    by Greg Williams <gwilliams [at] appstate.edu>
52. Re: KC
    by "Immel,Patrick" <PIMMEL [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu>
53. Re: Automated fixture comparison
    by SB <sbmtbike [at] optonline.net>
54. Re: KC
    by "Cyr, Dale" <Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com>
55. Re: listening assistance systems
    by Michael Feinberg <michaelf [at] joyce.eng.yale.edu>
56. Re: piano tuning
    by "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" <jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com>
57. Re: KC
    by "Immel,Patrick" <PIMMEL [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu>
58. Re: Freelance Status
    by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
59. Re: Freelance Status
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
60. Re: Ronnie Reagan (was Rough Cut Lumber)
    by mo <houseomo [at] ix.netcom.com>
61. Re: listening assistance systems
    by "Rob Carovillano" <rcarovillano [at] verizon.net>
62. Re: We Ride!! Gas Mileage
    by "John Vink" <jvink [at] johnsonsystems.com>
63. Re: Freelance Status
    by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
64. Re: listening assistance systems
    by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
65. Re: Palm Trees
    by Maciej Ostaszewski <macieko [at] tmxnet.pl>
66. Print Numbering
    by Greg Persinger <gregpersin [at] comcast.net>
67. Re: Periaktoi
    by "Ronnie Thevenot" <rkt [at] ronniethevenot.com>
68. Re: listening assistance systems
    by "Jack Morones" <jmorones [at] saddleback.edu>
69. Re: We Ride!! Gas Mileage
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
70. Re: piano tuning
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
71. Re: piano tuning
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
72. Re: Periaktoi
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
73. Re: piano tuning
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
74. Re: piano tuning
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
75. silk
    by rodok [at] telus.net
76. Re: silk
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
77. Re: piano tuning
    by "Alf Sauve" <alf [at] sauve.org>
78. Re: piano tuning
    by IAEG [at] aol.com

*** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject
*** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to
*** one message subject in each reply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-ID: <028301c509a3$0ef0aba0$0400a8c0 [at] ALFOFFICE>
Reply-To: "Alf Sauve" <alf [at] sauve.org>
From: "Alf Sauve" <alf [at] sauve.org>
References: <list-17203784 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: piano tuning
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:47:13 -0500

Some churches (small churches) tune their piano a half step low to make 
singing easier.  Works okay until you bring in other instruments.

Big name performers have preferences for the temperament of pianos.  Big 
name tuners have these programmed in special electronic tuners.  Saw one 
locally in Atlanta with over 100 different tempers for different musicians, 
e.g. Harry Conick, Ray Charles, etc.

Has anybody seen the rider for a big name piano player?  Does it spell out 
the temper?  Or does it specify an "approved" tuner?


Alf


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:15:56 -0500
Subject: Re: We Ride (hopefully)
From: Greg Williams <gwilliams [at] appstate.edu>
In-Reply-To: <1107397589.42018bd574f98 [at] mail.cumberlandcollege.edu>
Message-Id: <EB64D08E-7591-11D9-8553-000393DB9BBC [at] appstate.edu>


On Wednesday, February 2, 2005, at 09:26  PM, 
mconn [at] cumberlandcollege.edu wrote:
> Oh ya the Hopefully part is just for me as I have rotater cuff surgery 
> on
> Thursday Feb. 3.  2-6 month recovery... If nuttin else I will drive 
> the chase
> Van! But plan on riding outta DC with Long Reach Long Riders!
>
> Thanks Ya'll
>
> Moe
>

Hey Moe!
	Good luck with the shoulder tomorrow, and we're counting on you to 
ride, ya know. At the very least, we now have your _much_ better half 
with us, and if you're really nice, and your shoulder isn't healed, 
maybe Christine will let you ride behind her!

-=Greg Williams=-
Production Manager
Valborg Theatre
Appalachian State University
------We're at it again!!!------
Check out the Long Reach Long Riders cross country fund raiser for 
BC/EFA at http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html


------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.0.20050203061312.043a25c0 [at] localhost>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 06:13:42 -0800
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: DMX512-A
In-Reply-To: <list-17223525 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-17120983 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-17223525 [at] prxy.net>

At 07:20 PM 2/2/2005, you wrote:
BTW, there is now a DMX512 FAQ on the USITT Web Site:
>http://www.usitt.org/standards/DMX512_FAQ.html


Thanks, I added that link to our support page.



----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523  USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886
fax:  +1 408 356-4659
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

From: "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" <jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com>
Subject: RE: piano tuning
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:19:27 -0500
In-Reply-To: <list-17203784 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <20050203031929.FHHL1694.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net [at] p3m866>

Yes, Frank.  I've done a lot of piano tuning.  

Your reference to all the intervals being slightly out of tune is, of
course, a reference to the equal-tempered scale; a very successful
compromise and a challenge to the human ear when it comes to tuning.  If you
can't play something in all twelve keys, you really can't test the equal
tempered tuning of a piano.

Piano tune does vary a great deal with environmental changes, despite the
harp being a cast-iron construction.  And I agree that a careful move can
have less of an impact on tuning than a change of season.

One of the most common causes of pianos going out of tune is failure of the
tuner to "bang in" the new string positions.  Repeated strikes of the key
ensures that the string slides over the bridge and settles at it's final
equalibrium point, unlikely to settle (much) further later.  A fast tune
fails to meet this objective, you simply can't tune a piano well and do it
quickly.  A tune that requires a great deal of adjustment is also
problematic; a memory effect in the string will always take time to settle
out, and large changes in tune, i.e. position on the bridge, can take days
or even weeks to relax and find it's equilibrium point.  New strings are
predictably unweildy.

A piano that hasn't been banged in properly, and is then moved, will
certainly be out of tune at the end of the move.

Loose tuning pins are another story, and another common problem.  A piano
that is tuned before every performance, whether it needs it or not, and
probably too quickly, will soon have loose pins.  Oversize pins can be
installed.  Then, after another few cycles of the same treatment, the
instrument is ruined.

Jim

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf 
> Of FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
> Sent: February 2, 2005 6:48 PM
> To: Stagecraft
> Subject: Re: piano tuning
> 
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> In a message dated 02/02/05 16:07:06 GMT Standard Time, 
> ladesigners [at] juno.com
> writes:
> 
> > OK, but will 'Concert A' be set at 440hz, as it is in the 
> US, or 442hz?
> >  /s/ Richard
> >  
> >  Fortunately, most concert grands are kept in pretty good 
> tune, so a 
> > truly accurate pitch is easy to get.
> 
> 440Hz is the international standard, but in the earlier years 
> of the last century, it could be a lot higher, some times. 
> Brass bands were often a whole semitone sharp, and the 
> instruments were made to sound at that pitch. As you will 
> imagine, this caused problems when they had to combine with 
> more conventionally tuned instruments. It still causes 
> problems for people trying to buy instruments on the cheap. 
> Often, these were built for the higher pitch, and you have to 
> stretch your clarinet a bit at the joints, and then lip the 
> notes into tune. OK if you're a good player and have a good ear.
> 
> Back to pianos. It has always been a slight mystery to me why 
> moving a piano disturbs the tuning, as the myth has it. The 
> tuning is determined almost entirely by the string tensions. 
> Since the strings are attached at either end to a heavy, 
> rigid, cast iron frame, the tensions are unlikely to change 
> much. True, the strings bear down on the bridge, which is 
> attached to the soundboard, but this in turn is attached to 
> the iron frame, as it has to be to take the downloads of the strings.
> 
> With a wooden framed piano or harpsichord, it's another 
> question. These don't have the same rigidity. Indeed, you 
> will often see a continuo harpsichordist fiddling with the 
> tuning in the interval of an opera.
> 
> Myself, I think it is due to environment changes. Cast iron 
> and high-tensile steel have slightly different coefficients 
> of expansion: the wood of a soundboard is sensitive to 
> changes in humidity, as may be the felts on the hammers. 
> All these may conspire to upset the tuning, especially as all 
> the intervals apart from the octave are very slightly out of tune.
> 
> Is there a piano tuner in the house?
> 
> 
> Frank Wood
> 
> 


------------------------------

Message-ID: <1107397589.42018bd574f98 [at] mail.cumberlandcollege.edu>
Date: Wed,  2 Feb 2005 21:26:29 -0500
From: mconn [at] cumberlandcollege.edu
Cc: gwilliams [at] appstate.edu
Subject: RE: We Ride (hopefully)

AH Yes!  

Believe it or not those of us that did this last year did in fact discuss 
USITT in Toronto followed by Brrrrr! and Mmmmm What about a summer ride.  And 
so Act I scene 2 is in the prep stages.

For those that want to do something really cool, and help make a difference 
come join us.  It was one heck of a good time.  It is some of the most fun you 
can have without "gittin neked".  If ya don't have a Bike... go buy one even 
if it IS a honda, *coff*  Sorry had to get that bad taste outta my mouth.  
Kidding ya'll jokes babe jokes!

We invite any and all to join us or you can just throw money our way.  It is 
all for BC/EFA and a tax write off (Bonus)!

Oh ya the Hopefully part is just for me as I have rotater cuff surgery on 
Thursday Feb. 3.  2-6 month recovery... If nuttin else I will drive the chase  
Van! But plan on riding outta DC with Long Reach Long Riders!

Thanks Ya'll

Moe

Maurice "Moe" Conn  
Designer/Technical Director
Kohn Theatre
Cumberland College
606-539-4520
mconn [at] cumberlandcollege.edu

Thank You Everyone for Supporting the Long Beach Long Riders efforts to raise 
money for Broadway Cares/Equity Fights Aids. Stay Tuned as the Long Reach Long 
Riders set off on there second aventure. 
Check Out:  www.sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html


------------------------------

From: "Karl G. Ruling" <kruling [at] esta.org>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 12:03:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Piano tuner
Reply-to: kruling [at] esta.org
Message-ID: <42021300.20833.A6866E [at] localhost>
In-reply-to: <list-17224811 [at] prxy.net>

Frank Wood quipped:
 
> Is there a piano tuner in the house?

The "Piano Technicians Guild" website Boyd Ostroff cited 
(http://www.ptg.org/index.html) is pretty interesting. You can learn 
to be a piano tuner yourself. Skills required include "Normal 
hearing, patience, average finger dexterity, and a willingness to 
learn...." 

BTW, one of the best stagehand/carpenters in Southern Connecticut 
used to supplement her income with piano tuning. It paid well and had 
irregular hours that she could fit in around her stage work. She's 
now a full-time TD, so no more piano tuning. She has enough to do 
now.

------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.1.1.1.2.20050203062855.02c7f3c0 [at] mail.sdsu.edu>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 06:40:37 -0800
From: Loren Schreiber <lschreib [at] mail.sdsu.edu>
Subject: Re: We Ride!!
In-Reply-To: <list-17120983 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-17120983 [at] prxy.net>


>We pay our own way, by the way. The money raised goes to Broadway Cares
>/ Equity Fights Aids.
>
>We need riders, contributors, a chase vehicle and drivers (coming from
>the west at this point).

Yeah, I'm one of the riders coming from the west. I'd hate to make the ride 
alone--but I will if I have to. Surely there are a few wild and wooly techs 
on the west coast who know how to ride (and not just trailer their bikes to 
Stugis). Plus, our contingent gets to go through Las Vegas and Zion 
National Park. And it's all for a good cause. So wipe the dust off that 
Harley that sits in the shop most of the time, wash the real road grime off 
your metric bikes and join the cause.


Loren Schreiber, Technical Director and Long Reach Long Rider
School of Theatre, Television and Film
San Diego State University
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html



------------------------------

Message-ID: <AE85829C9F38D040A4B63DFBE5A042EA44CD15 [at] ucmail6.ad.uc.edu>
From: "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" <WAXLERS [at] UCMAIL.UC.EDU>
Subject: RE: Archives Problem and Tool Question
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2005 22:58:35 -0500 

That is what happens when you try to answer an email when you are half way
out the door.  Flocks works, though!

Steve Waxler
 
Technical Director
College Conservatory of Music
University of Cincinnati
  (513) 556-3709

-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart Wheaton [mailto:sdwheaton [at] fuse.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 6:30 PM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: Archives Problem and Tool Question

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Waxler, Steve (waxlers) wrote:

how many floks you have working
> in the shop at the same time.

Floks?  When I was there it was one sheep at a time!

Baa!   Baa!

;-)

Stu

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <c.3dd76fd5.2f33be21 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:49:21 EST
Subject: Re: piano tuning

In a message dated 03/02/05 16:26:26 GMT Standard Time, alf [at] sauve.org writes:

> Big name performers have preferences for the temperament of pianos.  Big 
>  name tuners have these programmed in special electronic tuners.  Saw one 
>  locally in Atlanta with over 100 different tempers for different 
musicians, 
>  e.g. Harry Conick, Ray Charles, etc.

 Temperament is certainly tricky, which is why piano tuners are expensive to 
hire. But, at the same time, there is a standard, and has been since J.S.Bach. 
The only interval that is perfect is the octave. All the others are slightly 
sharp or flat. The theory is that each semitone has a frequency ratio with its 
neighbours of the twelfth root of 2.

Other methods have been used, but work less well in really remote keys. Try 
looking up "Comma of Pythagoras" or "Wolftone" on Google.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1b8.c0f5edd.2f33c077 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:59:19 EST
Subject: Re: piano tuning

In a message dated 03/02/05 16:40:47 GMT Standard Time, 
jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com writes:

> Loose tuning pins are another story, and another common problem.  A piano
>  that is tuned before every performance, whether it needs it or not, and
>  probably too quickly, will soon have loose pins.  Oversize pins can be
>  installed.  Then, after another few cycles of the same treatment, the
>  instrument is ruined.

This all sounds like good advice. I know about loose pins. I once had a piano 
with a built-in harmonium. The harmonium bit was pretty stable, but there was 
no way my tuner could pull the piano up to match, given that it had a wooden 
frame. We settled for a third flat. This made the transpositions relatively 
easy, although D to F sharp is a pig, as is A to C sharp.

Then I inherited a big upright Steinway.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <e4.622cd52c.2f33c107 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:01:43 EST
Subject: Re: piano tuning


In a message dated 2/3/05 1:00:17 PM, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com writes:

>This all sounds like good advice. I know about loose pins. I once had a
>piano 
>with a built-in harmonium. The harmonium bit was pretty stable, but there
>was 
>no way my tuner could pull the piano up to match, given that it had a wooden
>
>frame

Frank, , , how old was this ?   harmonium and piano together , , two manuals 
?   and no metal frame?

early 1800' s?   



best,

Keith Arsenault

IAEG -  International Arts & Entertainment Group 
Tampa, Florida

------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050203015958.00bccfb8 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 01:59:58
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Re: forklifting piano

>Think that was sorta what I wuz sayin', wunnit?

I think so, yeah.  I was re-iterating my question in more detail, and
adding the reason that I was asking for the information so that tehre
wouldn't be a flurry of vague replies that restated the original vague
replies.  I figured that the first time I hadn't been specific enough in my
request for additional information, and was hoping to have no more less
than specific information.  That clear things up any?  OK, ok, so I'm
really bored on the present gig, as I have one mic pass and spend most of
my time getting into trouble and helping out props.  Or smoking, or
hatching practical jokes.  Anyone that knows Karen at the Orpheum in
Phoenix will understand.  BTW, I hope to have a picture of me in the
rhinestone tiara (soon to be permanently affixed to my headset) she has
bestowed upon me.  
I have met a few of the list members (and a coupla ex-members) on this leg,
and look forward to seeing a few more, though Fred will attest to the fact
that the only way to make this happen is to work the show or accept my
offer of comps if I can get them.  I get a coupla months off after this
weekend, but I'll be in Toledo, KC, and Greensboro NC in April.  Lemme know
where the beer is, and maybe we can get one together!  
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				OTR

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <d6.1f73c71a.2f33c27f [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:07:59 EST
Subject: Re: Piano tuner

In a message dated 03/02/05 17:03:38 GMT Standard Time, kruling [at] esta.org 
writes:

> The "Piano Technicians Guild" website Boyd Ostroff cited 
>  (http://www.ptg.org/index.html) is pretty interesting. You can learn 
>  to be a piano tuner yourself. Skills required include "Normal 
>  hearing, patience, average finger dexterity, and a willingness to 
>  learn...." 

But not quickly. In an emergency, I can take a piano from 'honky-tonk' to 
sounding more like a piano. But there's no way I can do a proper job. This 
involves knowing which intervals should be sharp or flat, and by how much. Counting 
beats is the classic method. You also need the tools to silence strings.



Frank Wood

------------------------------

Message-Id: <eb7b0a64a6a8717ebc0f985ecf90d921 [at] olivetcollege.edu>
From: Arthur Williams <awilliams [at] olivetcollege.edu>
Subject: Periaktoi
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:12:49 -0500

We are using a series of three periaktoi for our upcoming production of 
_the Importance of Being Earnest_. However, we are running into a bit 
of a quandary regarding the actual turntable mechanism. I'd like to use 
a lazy susan swivel, but finding anything over 17 inches has been a 
daunting task. We have two units using 4'x10' panels and one using 
5'x10' panels, so I'm concerned about their stability.

I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has experience with these 
3-sided beasties. What sort of units did you end up using for the 
actual turntables? How large were they? Most importantly, where did you 
find them?

Arthur E. Williams, Ph. D.
Director of Theatre
136 Upton Conservatory
Olivet College
Olivet, MI 49076

269 749-7246


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 13:17:18 -0500
Subject: Re: forklifting piano
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE27D4DE.3C0B%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-17268984 [at] prxy.net>

on 2/3/05 1:59 AM, CB at psyd [at] cox.net wrote:

> Anyone that knows Karen at the Orpheum in
> Phoenix will understand.


Tell her I said hi and look forward to a couple of games of pool next week
in KC

Bill S.
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

We stand behind, and under, our work.


------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <194.37be7e44.2f33c41c [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:14:52 EST
Subject: Re: piano tuning

In a message dated 03/02/05 18:02:27 GMT Standard Time, IAEG [at] aol.com writes:

> Frank, , , how old was this ?   harmonium and piano together , , two 
manuals 
>  ?   and no metal frame?
>  
>  early 1800' s?   

Late 1900's, at a guess from the style. It was an upright, and only one 
keyboard. Just several stop keys.

I'm sorry to have to say that it failed to leave my flat, other than in 
pieces. Two old guys brought it in, up two flights of ill-arranged stairs. A heavy 
gang of experienced and strong stagecrew couldn't get it down them, so I 
reluctantly dismembered it.

Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1c8.23404aa3.2f33c443 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:15:31 EST
Subject: Re: Periaktoi


In a message dated 2/3/05 1:13:56 PM, awilliams [at] olivetcollege.edu writes:

>I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has experience with these 
>3-sided beasties. What sort of units did you end up using for the 
>actual turntables? How large were they? Most importantly, where did you
>
>find them?


I have always castered them, , and created a center rotational point, , speed 
rail fitting lagged into the stage and pipe, that sort of thing


best,

Keith Arsenault

IAEG -  International Arts & Entertainment Group 
Tampa, Florida

------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <7d.623b6bfa.2f33c4a0 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:17:04 EST
Subject: Re: piano tuning


In a message dated 2/3/05 1:16:05 PM, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com writes:

>Late 1900's, at a guess from the style. It was an upright, and only one
>
>keyboard. Just several stop keys.

late 1900's ?   you mean like 1980 - 2000?  or did you mean to say Late 19th 
Century ? 

keith

------------------------------

From: "John Vink" <jvink [at] johnsonsystems.com>
Subject: RE: We Ride!!
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:30:33 -0700
Message-ID: <002101c50a1e$7238aa20$6801a8c0 [at] canadiansales>
In-Reply-To: <list-17262518 [at] prxy.net>

Any chance you guys might relax the gas mileage restriction
as my VMAX only goes 100 miles between gas stops?

John

> 
> Yeah, I'm one of the riders coming from the west. I'd 
> hate to make the ride 
> alone--but I will if I have to. Surely there are a few 
> wild and wooly techs 
> on the west coast who know how to ride 
> 
> 
> Loren Schreiber, Technical Director and Long Reach Long Rider
> School of Theatre, Television and Film
> San Diego State University
> http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html
> 
> 
> 


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 13:32:47 -0500
Subject: Re: Periaktoi
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE27D87F.3C12%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-17270515 [at] prxy.net>

on 2/3/05 1:15 PM, IAEG [at] aol.com at IAEG [at] aol.com wrote:

>> I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has experience with these
>> 3-sided beasties. What sort of units did you end up using for the
>> actual turntables? How large were they? Most importantly, where did you
>> 
>> find them?

I'm showing my age here, but I worked on the orignal Chrous Line ones and
several productions since then.

Stability will be an issue if you don't secure the top.  we found that a
metal frame incorporating flange bearings top and bottom worked best.  The
units had a central shaft and, in the lower budget versions, were driven by
a bicycle chain that was hand cranked.  The key was that the drive mechanism
was at the top.

Zat help?

Bill S.
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

We stand behind, and under, our work.



------------------------------

Subject: KC
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 10:30:18 -0800
Message-ID: <407DF7D68DD30440B5CEB70ED234D1CF0316E2E9 [at] excuswa100.americas.unity>
From: "Cyr, Dale" <Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com>

KC?

anything interesting goin' on there next week?
(I havent been following the list very closely lately,
been outta town.)

I'm gonna be there myself next week.

dale cyr
Training Supervisor
IATSE Local 93



Tell her I said hi and look forward to a couple of games of pool next
week
in KC

Bill S.
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

We stand behind, and under, our work.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 10:22:02 -0600
From: Mark Harvey <mharvey [at] d.umn.edu>
Subject: RE:  Automated fixture comparison
Message-ID: <2147483647.1107426122 [at] umd52-36.d.umn.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-17224811 [at] prxy.net>
References:  <list-17224811 [at] prxy.net>

I've appreciated the comments that have been made concerning 
comparisons between the VL 1000 and the ETC Revolution.  I wasn't all 
that interested in automated lighting until the tungsten versions 
started coming out.  I am dismayed,  however, at their overall size and 
weight.  Does anyone know of any other tungsten options that come in a 
smaller and/or lighter package?  Quiet operation is still a critical 
issue, but I'm not really looking forward to lugging 70 lb. fixtures 
around (again).

Thanks for the input.
____________________________________
Mark Harvey
Associate Professor, Theatrical Lighting and Sound Design
University of Minnesota Duluth
http://www.d.umn.edu/~mharvey

------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050203113223.00bccfb8 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 11:32:23
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Re: Slightly OT: Insurance and the freelancer

>You surprise me that in such a litigious society it is not common practice
>to carry at the very least Public Liability Insurance.

I have just become very adept at hiding and disguising assets, and
plausible deniability is my watchword.  The semi-adult version of Bart
Simpson's "I did'n do it man!", if you will.  As someone mentioned, fault
(at least here) is decided by the deepest pockets, and even if they DID
think I was responsible for ten mil worth of liability, they all know that
they're not getting it from me, and tend to look elsewhere.  Couple that
with the thin ice of being very concerned wheb I do anything on the deck,
and its livable, even if its not comfortable.
And yes, your 1099 independent contractor status (that they try to wedge
entertainment folk into all the time) may be your best defense.  I take the
money, the 1099 at the end of the year, and pay the taxes, but if it ever
came down to it the fact of the matter is that we almost never really are
contractors in the sense that it was intended.  Easily disproving our
independent contractor status allows the lawyers to transfer the
responsibility up the chain of command to deeper wells.
YMM definately V.
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				OTR

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050203113728.00bccfb8 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 11:37:28
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Re: piano tuning

>OK, but will 'Concert A' be set at 440hz, as it is in the US, or 442hz?

Don't poke that bear.  There are as many standard tunings as there are ways
in which to describe 'bluish-green' to a blind person.  Or speaker
connection standards.
							
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				OTR

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-17270117 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-17270117 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <d8b60d1dfc456c98e1fe265c00903413 [at] email.arizona.edu>
Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien)
From: Mark O'Brien <marko [at] email.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Periaktoi
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:40:34 -0700

I just did 2 Periaktoi for a production this fall, and here is how it 
worked..

Built the flats. Some had doors, but I built them with a bottom strut, 
to be cut out later.  Put a triple swivel caster unit in each corner.  
Had a center pivot, connected to one of the flats.  These were 8' on 
each side, 18' tall, with a doorway in 2 sides.

Mark O'Brien
Opera Technical Director
University of Arizona, School of Music
Tucson, AZ
520/621-7025
520/591-1803 Mobile


On Feb 3, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Arthur Williams wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> We are using a series of three periaktoi for our upcoming production 
> of _the Importance of Being Earnest_. However, we are running into a 
> bit of a quandary regarding the actual turntable mechanism. I'd like 
> to use a lazy susan swivel, but finding anything over 17 inches has 
> been a daunting task. We have two units using 4'x10' panels and one 
> using 5'x10' panels, so I'm concerned about their stability.
>
> I would appreciate hearing from anyone who has experience with these 
> 3-sided beasties. What sort of units did you end up using for the 
> actual turntables? How large were they? Most importantly, where did 
> you find them?
>
> Arthur E. Williams, Ph. D.
> Director of Theatre
> 136 Upton Conservatory
> Olivet College
> Olivet, MI 49076
>
> 269 749-7246
>


------------------------------

From: roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com
Subject: Freelance Status
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 12:46:55 -0600
Message-ID: <03s401pnendsejrsctjn4ohm2ra5fh8cti [at] 4ax.com>
References: <list-17272383 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-17272383 [at] prxy.net>

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 11:32:23 +0000, Chris wrote:

>snip
>
>And yes, your 1099 independent contractor status (that they try to wedge
>entertainment folk into all the time) may be your best defense.  I take =
the
>money, the 1099 at the end of the year, and pay the taxes, but if it =
ever
>came down to it the fact of the matter is that we almost never really =
are
>contractors in the sense that it was intended. =20

This peeked my interest. If we are not a independent contractors then
what are we? I ask not to argue the point but to gain some incite. I
had assumed that the 1099 status was indeed correct but then that
assumption was based on the fact that this is always what I had seen.

I ask because I am now trying to set up design work and looking to
find information on how best to do this. Do I incorporate as a small
business...etc...

I am just looking for places to start researching the subject.

rob johnson
=46reelance Designer

------------------------------

Subject: RE: piano tuning
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 13:50:02 -0500
Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0196C6EE [at] exchange.rmwc.edu>
From: "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>

> The only interval that is perfect is the octave. All the=20
> others are slightly=20
> sharp or flat. The theory is that each semitone has a=20
> frequency ratio with its=20
> neighbours of the twelfth root of 2.
>=20
> Other methods have been used, but work less well in really=20
> remote keys. Try=20
> looking up "Comma of Pythagoras" or "Wolftone" on Google.

Many years ago, I did an undergrad honors thesis on musical scales.  I
was working on it from a very mathematical perspective (since that was
one of my majors), doing whole buttloads of analysis on the differences
between various historical scales (Pythagorean through meantone and up
to the modern equal temperament) and then mathematically working out a
reasonable compromise between meantone and equal that would alleviate
some of the problems ET has with major thirds (specifically, the
difference between the equal temperament third and the Pythagorean ideal
third).

Unfortunately, I've never found a piece of freeware that would allow me
to plug frequencies (to the hundredths) in and get sound out so I could
hear my newly-created scale...so I have no practical idea what it sounds
like!

------------------------------

Message-ID: <AE85829C9F38D040A4B63DFBE5A042EA58E054 [at] ucmail6.ad.uc.edu>
From: "Waxler, Steve (waxlers)" <WAXLERS [at] UCMAIL.UC.EDU>
Subject: RE: Freelance Status
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:01:20 -0500 

I repeat a suggestion made earlier.  Take a look at James L. Moody's book
The Business of Theatrical Design.

Steve Waxler
Technical Director
College Conservatory of Music
University of Cincinnati

-----Original Message-----
From: roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com [mailto:roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com] 
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 1:47 PM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Freelance Status

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 11:32:23 +0000, Chris wrote:

>snip
>
>And yes, your 1099 independent contractor status (that they try to wedge
>entertainment folk into all the time) may be your best defense.  I take the
>money, the 1099 at the end of the year, and pay the taxes, but if it ever
>came down to it the fact of the matter is that we almost never really are
>contractors in the sense that it was intended.  

This peeked my interest. If we are not a independent contractors then
what are we? I ask not to argue the point but to gain some incite. I
had assumed that the 1099 status was indeed correct but then that
assumption was based on the fact that this is always what I had seen.

I ask because I am now trying to set up design work and looking to
find information on how best to do this. Do I incorporate as a small
business...etc...

I am just looking for places to start researching the subject.

rob johnson
Freelance Designer

------------------------------

From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:04:27 GMT
Subject: Re: Freelance Status
Message-Id: <20050203.110501.23070.10259 [at] webmail04.lax.untd.com>


Dear Rob,
You can ask me all the questions that your wish, on- or off-list. These issues are the fodder of that portion of my day spent as a lawyer, between designing theatres and figuring out to pay for a show.
/s/ Richard
If we are not a independent contractors then what are we? I ask not to argue the point but to gain some incite. I had assumed that the 1099 status was indeed correct but then that assumption was based on the fact that this is always what I had seen.
I ask because I am now trying to set up design work and looking to
find information on how best to do this. Do I incorporate as a small
business...etc...
I am just looking for places to start researching the subject.
rob johnson
Freelance Designer

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:08:21 -0500 (EST)
From: Boyd Ostroff <ostroff [at] operaphilly.com>
Subject: Re: Freelance Status
In-Reply-To: <list-17274024 [at] prxy.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0502031356060.3834 [at] maestro.operaphilly.com>
References: <list-17272383 [at] prxy.net> <list-17274024 [at] prxy.net>

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com wrote:

> I ask because I am now trying to set up design work and looking to
> find information on how best to do this.

In that case you would be very foolish to base any decision on what "some 
guy on the internet" tells you. Find a local accountant and pay them a few 
bucks to do your taxes. I learned this at an early age and it has served 
me extremely well. Don't take advice from strangers when it comes to 
taxes, get a pro on your team who is willing to stand behind his 
decisions.

| Boyd Ostroff
| Director of Design and Technology
| Opera Company of Philadelphia
| http://tech.operaphilly.com
| ostroff [at] operaphilly.com

------------------------------

From: roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com
Subject: Re: Freelance Status
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 13:10:19 -0600
Message-ID: <snt401tj7vh28au5pdr075ikum6kcckb0l [at] 4ax.com>
References: <list-17275535 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-17275535 [at] prxy.net>

I ordered it yesterday <smile>

Rob Johnson

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:01:20 -0500, you wrote:

>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>I repeat a suggestion made earlier.  Take a look at James L. Moody's =
book
>The Business of Theatrical Design.
>
>Steve Waxler
>Technical Director
>College Conservatory of Music
>University of Cincinnati
>


------------------------------

From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Freelance Status
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:13:19 -0800
Message-ID: <003a01c50a24$6c6e8550$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer>
In-Reply-To: <list-17276227 [at] prxy.net>

Absolutely true. A good tax person, not necessarily a CPA is worth their
weight in fine metals. Always, try several or have a good reference. I
use, for a long, long time, a retired IRS Agent, and there are those I
different cities and they know the codes, believe me. Very helpful. Doom

-- 
Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. -
www.riskit.com   Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment
Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and
Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops    International
Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Boyd
Ostroff
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:08 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: Freelance Status

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com wrote:

> I ask because I am now trying to set up design work and looking to
> find information on how best to do this.

In that case you would be very foolish to base any decision on what
"some 
guy on the internet" tells you. Find a local accountant and pay them a
few 
bucks to do your taxes. I learned this at an early age and it has served

me extremely well. Don't take advice from strangers when it comes to 
taxes, get a pro on your team who is willing to stand behind his 
decisions.

| Boyd Ostroff
| Director of Design and Technology
| Opera Company of Philadelphia
| http://tech.operaphilly.com
| ostroff [at] operaphilly.com


------------------------------

From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Freelance Status
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:13:55 -0800
Message-ID: <003b01c50a24$81fdee10$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer>
In-Reply-To: <list-17276370 [at] prxy.net>

Excellent book by Jim. I have had copy he gave me a year ago and find it
excellent. Doom

-- 
Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. -
www.riskit.com   Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment
Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and
Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops    International
Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of
roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:10 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: Freelance Status

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

I ordered it yesterday <smile>

Rob Johnson

On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:01:20 -0500, you wrote:

>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see
<http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>I repeat a suggestion made earlier.  Take a look at James L. Moody's
book
>The Business of Theatrical Design.
>
>Steve Waxler
>Technical Director
>College Conservatory of Music
>University of Cincinnati
>


------------------------------

Message-id: <fc.00757e4300fb75333b9aca00a367481c.fb7542 [at] worcesteracademy.org>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:19:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Freelance Status
From: "Joshua Webb" <jwebb [at] worcesteracademy.org>
References: <list-17276565 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-17276565 [at] prxy.net>

I used to use a retired IRS agent, but I found she was a bit too
conservative for my taste and let the government keep too much of my
money. I've since given up freelancing and can do them myself.

Joshua G. Webb
Designer/Technical Director
Worcester Academy
81 Providence St.
Worcester, MA 01604
508.754.5302 x174


------------------------------

From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Freelance Status
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:23:37 -0800
Message-ID: <004d01c50a25$dd00c4d0$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer>
In-Reply-To: <list-17277101 [at] prxy.net>

Must not be like my retired agent. He demands that I get every penny,
for ten years now, and if there are any back taxes he fights for me to
get them negotiated down, and has done that over the years with great
aplomb. Doom

-- 
Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. -
www.riskit.com   Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment
Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and
Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops    International
Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Joshua
Webb
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:19 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: Freelance Status

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

I used to use a retired IRS agent, but I found she was a bit too
conservative for my taste and let the government keep too much of my
money. I've since given up freelancing and can do them myself.

Joshua G. Webb
Designer/Technical Director
Worcester Academy
81 Providence St.
Worcester, MA 01604
508.754.5302 x174


------------------------------

From: "Jack Morones" <jmorones [at] saddleback.edu>
Subject: listening assistance systems
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:24:49 -0800
Organization: Saddleback College
Message-ID: <000901c50a26$071aa970$6500a8c0 [at] SCJACKLT>

I received a message from another list regarding listening assistance
systems.

Does anyone know if there have been any recent governmental regulations
requiring these systems?

I don't believe there are, but now I am curious...

Thanks.

-Jack


Jack R. Morones
Production Manager
McKinney Theatre
 


------------------------------

From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Archives Problem and Tool Question
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:26:13 -0800
Message-ID: <005801c50a26$39cf2940$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer>
In-Reply-To: <list-17265773 [at] prxy.net>

And I thought flocking was just for Christmas trees. doom

-- 
Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. -
www.riskit.com   Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment
Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and
Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops    International
Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Waxler,
Steve (waxlers)
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 7:59 PM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: Archives Problem and Tool Question

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

That is what happens when you try to answer an email when you are half
way
out the door.  Flocks works, though!

Steve Waxler
 
Technical Director
College Conservatory of Music
University of Cincinnati
  (513) 556-3709

-----Original Message-----
From: Stuart Wheaton [mailto:sdwheaton [at] fuse.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 6:30 PM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: Archives Problem and Tool Question

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Waxler, Steve (waxlers) wrote:

how many floks you have working
> in the shop at the same time.

Floks?  When I was there it was one sheep at a time!

Baa!   Baa!

;-)

Stu


------------------------------

From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: listening assistance systems
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:29:19 -0800
Message-ID: <005c01c50a26$a97be030$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer>
In-Reply-To: <list-17277755 [at] prxy.net>

I have not seen any in my usual weekly government reports. Doom I shall
keep an eye out and review them again. Doom

-- 
Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. -
www.riskit.com   Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment
Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and
Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops    International
Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jack
Morones
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:25 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: listening assistance systems

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

I received a message from another list regarding listening assistance
systems.

Does anyone know if there have been any recent governmental regulations
requiring these systems?

I don't believe there are, but now I am curious...

Thanks.

-Jack


Jack R. Morones
Production Manager
McKinney Theatre
 


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:33:21 -0500
Subject: Re: KC
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE27E6B1.3C2F%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-17272221 [at] prxy.net>

on 2/3/05 1:30 PM, Cyr, Dale at Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com wrote:

> anything interesting goin' on there next week?
> (I havent been following the list very closely lately,
> been outta town.)
> 
> I'm gonna be there myself next week.


I have the next round of Certification meetings with the psychomatricians
and the Subject Matter Experts.  (That's where Karen comes in.)  Not
something that's open to the public, nor will there really be time for
partying, except maybe Tuesday night.  I'll try to stay in touch, but it's
Market Week in NYC and I'm in fashion show hell.

Later
Bill
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

We stand behind, and under, our work.


------------------------------

From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:33:02 GMT
Subject: Re: Freelance Status
Message-Id: <20050203.113352.23070.10543 [at] webmail04.lax.untd.com>


I agree. I received one of the first autographed copies. He was a good business example for us going way back to his Sundance Lighting years.
/s/ Richard

Excellent book by Jim. I have had copy he gave me a year ago and find it excellent. Doom

> I repeat a suggestion made earlier.  Take a look at James L. Moody's
> book The Business of Theatrical Design.
>Steve Waxler


------------------------------

From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: Freelance Status
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:36:55 -0800
Message-ID: <005d01c50a27$b8b8faa0$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer>
In-Reply-To: <list-17278589 [at] prxy.net>

Glad that we all agree on the excellence of this person, and also your
expertise Richard. Doom

-- 
Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. -
www.riskit.com   Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment
Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and
Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops    International
Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of
ladesigners [at] juno.com
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:33 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: Freelance Status

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------


I agree. I received one of the first autographed copies. He was a good
business example for us going way back to his Sundance Lighting years.
/s/ Richard

Excellent book by Jim. I have had copy he gave me a year ago and find it
excellent. Doom

> I repeat a suggestion made earlier.  Take a look at James L. Moody's
> book The Business of Theatrical Design.
>Steve Waxler


------------------------------

Message-ID: <42027E93.8040903 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:42:11 -0500
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Reply-To: Rees [at] fredonia.edu
Subject: Re: Periaktoi
References: <list-17270117 [at] prxy.net>

Arthur,
We are doing exactly the same thing on a smaller scale for a black box 
production.  We are building 2 sets of three that are 3'x8'.  I had some 
lazy susans but the ball bearings were far too loud.  Instead, we are 
using three wheels down, 3" rigid casters set as close to the points so 
as to describe a circle as they rotate.  We created a center pivot using 
a 1/2" pipe flange with 6" nipple affixed to the CP of the round base 
plate and a 3/4" floor flange mounted to the center of the underside of 
the periaktoi caster plate with a hole bored in the center to 
accommodate the nipple.  Odd sizing, but all was pulled from stock.  The 
whole mess is assembled and then slid under an overhanging balcony and 
the round base plate is screwed to the deck after being aligned 
properly. HTH,
Steve Rees, TD
SUNY-Fredonia

Arthur Williams wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> We are using a series of three periaktoi 


------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.2.20050203143803.032b3ec0 [at] mail.hstech.org>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:48:40 -0500
From: "Scott C. Parker" <stagecraftlist [at] hstech.org>
Subject: Re: Freelance Status
In-Reply-To: <list-17274024 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-17272383 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-17274024 [at] prxy.net>

Rob,
speaking as a layperson, unqualified to comment, not a lawyer nor a tax 
expert, former full-time freelancer, insert your own disclaimer here:...

 From my understanding, and this is very simplistic, it basically boils 
down to who sets the schedule. For example, let's say you call me and asked 
me to build you a set. If I rent the shop, I set the hours of operation, 
and I dictate my availability: then I'm an independent contractor 
contracted to supply you with the set.
On the other hand, if the set is built in your theater during your hours of 
operation on the days that you dictate: then I'm your employee.

Your mileage may vary.
Scott

At 01:46 PM 2/3/2005, you wrote:
>This peeked my interest. If we are not a independent contractors then
>what are we? I ask not to argue the point but to gain some incite. I
>had assumed that the 1099 status was indeed correct but then that
>assumption was based on the fact that this is always what I had seen.

         Scott C. Parker
         Production Designer/Technical Director
         High School Tech Production Web Site
         hstech~AT~hstech.org

High Schoolers: come visit the HS Tech Web Site... http://www.hstech.org

Our Mission: To assist High School Technical Theater students in their 
desire to learn about, create, and execute theatrical productions.  


------------------------------

Message-ID: <BAY12-DAV1E315F79A5FE91B8E4215C67F0 [at] phx.gbl>
Reply-To: <mseddy2900 [at] hotmail.com>
From: "Michael S. Eddy" <mseddy2900 [at] hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: listening assistance systems
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:52:25 -0500
In-Reply-To: <list-17277755 [at] prxy.net>

Not what Jack is looking for, but it recalled an article that I read in this
week's Newsweek. Here is the link online to the article. Very cool use of
technology to solve a problem.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6884737/site/newsweek/

From the article:

<SNIP>
Feb. 7 issue - For people who have hearing disabilities, live theater is
often a frustrating experience. As jokes fly by and lyrics are sung, viewers
are forced to ignore what they've missed or pester companions for a
play-by-play. But last week, "Wicked" audiences at Broadway's Gershwin
Theater became among the first in the nation to have access to a handheld
device that provides captions as the show progresses. The I-Caption, a
five-ounce Dell Axim Pocket PC, is about the size of a pack of cigarettes.
<SNIP>

It claims:
<SNIP>
I-Caption, which cost "Wicked" about $10,000, knows which dialogue to show
by picking up wireless prompts from the light board.
<SNIP>

I'm sure they mean sound console or a transmitter from the audio department.
I doubt ETC is getting into the hearing impaired market. Maybe this is a new
Obsession feature?!?

What are the group's thoughts on this new technology for the theatre? It
cost Wicked $10,000. How does this cost compare to existing infrared
systems?

Michael Eddy

------------------------------

Message-ID: <001301c50a29$fc1468a0$a8a44481 [at] rcarovil>
From: "Rob Carovillano" <rcarovillano [at] verizon.net>
References: <list-17278023 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: listening assistance systems
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:53:08 -0500

I believe that with any new system installation it is required in order to 
be in compliance with ADA regulations.

Rob Carovillano
Technical Director
Bluett Theatre
Saint Joseph's University
610-660-1044
rcarovil [at] sju.edu
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson
To: Stagecraft
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: listening assistance systems


For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

I have not seen any in my usual weekly government reports. Doom I shall
keep an eye out and review them again. Doom

-- 
Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. -
www.riskit.com   Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment
Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and
Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops    International
Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jack
Morones
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:25 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: listening assistance systems

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

I received a message from another list regarding listening assistance
systems.

Does anyone know if there have been any recent governmental regulations
requiring these systems?

I don't believe there are, but now I am curious...

Thanks.

-Jack


Jack R. Morones
Production Manager
McKinney Theatre
 


------------------------------

From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" <doomster [at] worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RE: listening assistance systems
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:56:51 -0800
Message-ID: <006801c50a2a$824fa8d0$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer>
In-Reply-To: <list-17280398 [at] prxy.net>

Yes, those are the Regulations for Compliance. Doom

-- 
Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. -
www.riskit.com   Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment
Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and
Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops    International
Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Rob
Carovillano
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:53 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: listening assistance systems

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

I believe that with any new system installation it is required in order
to 
be in compliance with ADA regulations.

Rob Carovillano
Technical Director
Bluett Theatre
Saint Joseph's University
610-660-1044
rcarovil [at] sju.edu
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson
To: Stagecraft
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 2:29 PM
Subject: Re: listening assistance systems


For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

I have not seen any in my usual weekly government reports. Doom I shall
keep an eye out and review them again. Doom

-- 
Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. -
www.riskit.com   Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment
Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and
Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops    International
Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jack
Morones
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 11:25 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: listening assistance systems

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

I received a message from another list regarding listening assistance
systems.

Does anyone know if there have been any recent governmental regulations
requiring these systems?

I don't believe there are, but now I am curious...

Thanks.

-Jack


Jack R. Morones
Production Manager
McKinney Theatre
 


------------------------------

Subject: RE: listening assistance systems
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:58:13 -0500
Message-ID: <28077FD270CFAD4E85701B91A78D7D95496E2B [at] nbexchsrv01.newcomb-boyd.com>
From: "David A. McNell" <dmcnell [at] newcomb-boyd.com>

Not exactly recent... but from the ADA Accessibility Guidelines for
Buildings and Facilities (ADAAG)
<www.access-board.gov/adaag/html/adaag.htm>:

"(b) This paragraph applies to assembly areas where audible
communications are integral to the use of the space (e.g., concert and
lecture halls, playhouses and movie theaters, meeting rooms, etc.). Such
assembly areas, if (1) they accommodate at least 50 persons, or if they
have audio-amplification systems, and (2) they have fixed seating, shall
have a permanently installed assistive listening system complying with
4.33. For other assembly areas, a permanently installed assistive
listening system, or an adequate number of electrical outlets or other
supplementary wiring necessary to support a portable assistive listening
system shall be provided. The minimum number of receivers to be provided
shall be equal to 4 percent of the total number of seats, but in no case
less than two. Signage complying with applicable provisions of 4.30
shall be installed to notify patrons of the availability of a listening
system."


David A. McNell
Special Technologies Group=20
Newcomb & Boyd
www.newcomb-boyd.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Jack
Morones

Does anyone know if there have been any recent governmental regulations
requiring these systems?




------------------------------

Subject: RE: KC
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 11:59:53 -0800
Message-ID: <407DF7D68DD30440B5CEB70ED234D1CF0316E2EC [at] excuswa100.americas.unity>
From: "Cyr, Dale" <Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com>

Tuesday works great, if it works for you.
if not: no harm, no foul; play on :)

cell:  509 993 5940

dale cyr



something that's open to the public, nor will there really be time for
partying, except maybe Tuesday night.  I'll try to stay in touch, but
it's
Market Week in NYC and I'm in fashion show hell.

Later
Bill
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

We stand behind, and under, our work.


------------------------------

From: roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com
Subject: Re: Freelance Status
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:08:19 -0600
Message-ID: <vj05019ku9afpvoob7tkl5i4ierocidmi0 [at] 4ax.com>
References: <list-17272383 [at] prxy.net> <list-17274024 [at] prxy.net> <list-17276227 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-17276227 [at] prxy.net>

Oh, Please!

=46or the record I have been talking with a CPA who is a good friend of
mine. She was always coming at it form the angle that I was an
independent contractor. Chris' statement made me wonder if there were
alternatives.  If this list is not a place for each of us to share our
experiences that what is it for?

I realize I am just a name and that no one here can know if I am a
novice or a seasoned pro. But to just be flip and assume that the
person asking is going to just do what is said here is short sighted.

If I have taken your post wrong then I apologize up front and will buy
you your drink of choice if we cross paths. I honestly was just having
a discussion.

Rob Johnson

 On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:08:21 -0500 (EST), you wrote:

>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com wrote:
>
>> I ask because I am now trying to set up design work and looking to
>> find information on how best to do this.
>
>In that case you would be very foolish to base any decision on what =
"some=20
>guy on the internet" tells you. Find a local accountant and pay them a =
few=20
>bucks to do your taxes. I learned this at an early age and it has served=
=20
>me extremely well. Don't take advice from strangers when it comes to=20
>taxes, get a pro on your team who is willing to stand behind his=20
>decisions.
>
>| Boyd Ostroff
>| Director of Design and Technology
>| Opera Company of Philadelphia
>| http://tech.operaphilly.com
>| ostroff [at] operaphilly.com


------------------------------

From: roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com
Subject: Palm Trees
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 14:13:13 -0600
Message-ID: <e81501pg2pj8rkgmjrm689088oihsfvdh1 [at] 4ax.com>

I am designing a show that will require realistic palm trees that vary
in height from 10 to 18 feet.

Anyone done this kind of thing before?

My first thought is bent sq tube w/ chicken wire attached and then
wrap with burlap. Add felt leaves and poof a palm tree.

Any thoughts?

rob johnson

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 15:12:51 -0500
From: Greg Williams <gwilliams [at] appstate.edu>
Subject: Re: We Ride!! Gas Mileage
In-reply-to: <list-17271879 [at] prxy.net>
Message-id: <FB14A258-761F-11D9-8915-000393DB9BBC [at] appstate.edu>


On Thursday, February 3, 2005, at 01:30  PM, John Vink wrote:
> Any chance you guys might relax the gas mileage restriction
> as my VMAX only goes 100 miles between gas stops?

Hi John,
   I thought about taking this one "off-list", but since it's _almost_ 
related to Stagecraft, in that we're the ones doing this, I'll just 
field it here. Probably some of the other LRLR'ers will want to chime 
in as well.

   We put the gas mileage restrictions in there for a couple of reasons. 
#1, if we say 150, and someone who only gets 125 signs up, it's not a 
big deal. #2 If you're coming from the West, it will matter a great 
deal how much mileage you get.

   Coming from the East, we're driving through "commerce alley" and gas 
stops will not be as critical. Coming from the West, each day's mileage 
is further, making fewer stops advantageous. Plus, we can attest from 
last year's return trip that there are occasionally at _least_ 110 
miles between stops. And we have a nice picture of a desert picnic when 
one of us (coughMOEcough) ran out of gas to prove it!

   If I understand correctly, the V Max has a 4 gallon tank. Does it 
really only get 25 mpg?

   Feel free to ping me off-list for more details, or Bill, Loren, Moe, 
Wayne, etc.

   C'mon and join us. You'll love it.

-=Greg Williams=-
Production Manager
Valborg Theatre
Appalachian State University
------We're at it again!!!------
Check out the Long Reach Long Riders cross country fund raiser for 
BC/EFA at http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html


------------------------------

Message-ID: <147CF8DFB9C5D41187300001FA7EE39024FA0781 [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu>
From: "Immel,Patrick" <PIMMEL [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu>
Subject: RE: KC
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:45:09 -0600 

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cyr, Dale [mailto:Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 12:30 PM
> To: Stagecraft
> Subject: KC
> 
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> KC?
> 
> anything interesting goin' on there next week?
> (I havent been following the list very closely lately, been 
> outta town.)
> 
> I'm gonna be there myself next week.
> 
> dale cyr
> Training Supervisor
> IATSE Local 93


Yup!  Lots of great BBQ!!  And it's probably the best in the world!

There, I said it!

Buwahhahahahahaha!


Pat Immel
Northwest Missouri State University

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 15:48:02 -0500
From: SB <sbmtbike [at] optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Automated fixture comparison
Message-id: <007901c50a31$a780d280$6701a8c0 [at] lighting>
References: <list-17224811 [at] prxy.net> <list-17272375 [at] prxy.net>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mark Harvey" <mharvey [at] d.umn.edu>

>  I am dismayed,  however, at their overall size and weight.  Does anyone 
> know of any other tungsten options that come in a smaller and/or lighter 
> package?

No, actually I can't and I'm not doing any research as to what all is out 
there as I've grown accustomed to having to deal with 65lbs ML's.  I'm also 
of the opinon that in the case of the Revolution, the large'ish head size 
works in it's favor as it's easy to get at things to fix them.

>Quiet operation is still a critical issue, but I'm not really looking 
>forward to lugging 70 lb. fixtures around (again).

Hmmm... I see from your sig that your at a college.  Perhaps have the 
students do the lifting ?, it's "good" for them, it's part of the learning 
experience, etc... (grin).  Seriously though, build or buy road cases and/or 
rolling carts for storage and movement.

Steve Bailey
Brooklyn College 


------------------------------

Subject: RE: KC
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 12:53:09 -0800
Message-ID: <407DF7D68DD30440B5CEB70ED234D1CF0316E2EE [at] excuswa100.americas.unity>
From: "Cyr, Dale" <Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com>

that's quite a claim...

anyplace in particular you'd care to name
to 'step up to the plate' and back up your claim?

dale cyr
Training Supervisor
IATSE Local 93



Yup!  Lots of great BBQ!!  And it's probably the best in the world!

There, I said it!

Buwahhahahahahaha!


Pat Immel
Northwest Missouri State University

------------------------------

Message-Id: <a05210610be283e5614d5 [at] [192.168.1.111]>
In-Reply-To: <list-17280384 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-17280384 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:58:53 -0500
From: Michael Feinberg <michaelf [at] joyce.eng.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: listening assistance systems

>It claims:
><SNIP>
>I-Caption, which cost "Wicked" about $10,000, knows which dialogue to show
>by picking up wireless prompts from the light board.
><SNIP>
>
>I'm sure they mean sound console or a transmitter from the audio department.
>I doubt ETC is getting into the hearing impaired market. Maybe this is a new
>Obsession feature?!?

Actually, I think they were right.  My understanding of I-Caption is 
that its server monitors the current light cue and text is advanced 
based to a preprogrammed point corresponding with that cue.  I don't 
know if it's through DMX, MIDI, ethernet, or something else that it 
gets the cue information, but what to do with that would have to be 
programmed into the I-Caption by someone familiar with the show and 
should be console independent.  Having it based on an audio feed 
would be _incredibly_ more complex and involve speech->text 
conversion, which is buggy in the controlled environment of careful 
speech into a boom mic by a single user that the computer has been 
taught to understand, I can't imagine how bad it would be on sung 
material from multiple performers picked up by a reinforcement system.

>The I-Caption, a five-ounce Dell Axim Pocket PC, is about the size 
>of a pack of cigarettes.
><SNIP>
The article is wrong in this however, as the Axim isn't really what 
the I-Caption is, but really just a user terminal for the system, and 
could be replaced with TVs, video projectors, individual LCD screens, 
or pretty much anything else capable of displaying data.

Take a look at:
http://www.soundassociates.com/IR%20Product%20Pages/Captioner%20CS01.htm
-- 
-Michael Feinberg, CTS

------------------------------

From: "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" <jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com>
Subject: RE: piano tuning
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:59:46 -0500
In-Reply-To: <list-17274360 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <20050203205950.CKNA2034.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net [at] p3m866>

> Unfortunately, I've never found a piece of freeware that 
> would allow me to plug frequencies (to the hundredths) in and 
> get sound out so I could hear my newly-created scale...so I 
> have no practical idea what it sounds like!

All kinds of electronic keyboard instruments have offered microtuning and
custom scale building.  Almost 20 years ago, when I was a repair person for
a major musical instrument retailer, this was of huge interest to our
academic customers.  Back then, there were few high-end instruments that
didn't offer this functionality, and even a few of the lower-end keyboards
had this stuff buried deep in their operating systems.

If you're really interested in experimenting with alternative scales at low
cost, I'm sure you can find a used instrument; you can go back pretty far
and still get what you want.  The biggest difference between old and new is
notes of polyphony.  You might only get 8, or 16 notes on older gear; newer
stuff is much more polyphonic, and capable of a greater number of different
timbres simultaneously.

Jim


------------------------------

Message-ID: <147CF8DFB9C5D41187300001FA7EE39024FA078E [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu>
From: "Immel,Patrick" <PIMMEL [at] mail.nwmissouri.edu>
Subject: RE: KC
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:00:40 -0600 

Dale,

Try this link:  http://www.experiencekc.com/barbeque.html

I have personally tried KC Masterpiece, Gates and Arthur Bryant's.  All very
good.  I am not from KC, but there are probably another 50-60 smaller, mom
pop bbq's that are probably just as outstanding.  A plate of ribs and a beer
at any one of these places will make you happy!  If I wasn't busy I'd come
down and have some with you!

Have fun!!

Pat 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Cyr, Dale [mailto:Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com] 
> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 2:53 PM
> To: Stagecraft
> Subject: Re: KC
> 
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> that's quite a claim...
> 
> anyplace in particular you'd care to name to 'step up to the 
> plate' and back up your claim?
> 
> dale cyr
> Training Supervisor
> IATSE Local 93
> 
> 
> 
> Yup!  Lots of great BBQ!!  And it's probably the best in the world!
> 
> There, I said it!
> 
> Buwahhahahahahaha!
> 
> 
> Pat Immel
> Northwest Missouri State University
> 

------------------------------

From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:04:35 GMT
Subject: Re: Freelance Status
Message-Id: <20050203.130454.12571.11194 [at] webmail05.lax.untd.com>


The key is the 'HOW" of performing the task more than the 'WHEN'. If they tell you HOW to build that flat or costume, or HOW to rig that drape or sound board, you are probably an employee.
/s/ Richard

Rob,
 From my understanding, and this is very simplistic, it basically boils down to who sets the schedule. 
Scott


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 16:16:17 -0500
Subject: Re: Freelance Status
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE27FED0.3C58%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-17286683 [at] prxy.net>

on 2/3/05 4:04 PM, ladesigners [at] juno.com at ladesigners [at] juno.com wrote:

> The key is the 'HOW" of performing the task more than the 'WHEN'. If they tell
> you HOW to build that flat or costume, or HOW to rig that drape or sound
> board, you are probably an employee.


The concept that is used is the one of Control.    Does the employer tell
the individual what to do and when and how.  Is the employer in control of
the individual's actions.  If yes, then it's an employer/employee
relationship.  If no, then it might be an client/independent contractor
relationship.

Our industry is certainly not the only industry that abuses the IC
relationship, but this industry is very good at it.

Bill S.

www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

We stand behind, and under, our work.


------------------------------

Message-ID: <420296B5.1010701 [at] ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 13:25:09 -0800
From: mo <houseomo [at] ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Ronnie Reagan (was Rough Cut Lumber)

Aaah, yes.  Thank you. 
The Pasty Fart, er, um Tasty Tart.......???
Was a great show.  We had some terrific actors on this one.  Tom 
McGowan, Daniel von Bargen.  Of course Tom kept breaking the beds 
jumping up ad down on them and we were never told until they were all 
broken, as stage management just kept switching beds.
Had a retired RAF gentleman comment how much the set looked like the 
real thing.

michael

------------------------------

Message-ID: <000d01c50a37$448b0e10$a8a44481 [at] rcarovil>
From: "Rob Carovillano" <rcarovillano [at] verizon.net>
References: <list-17280384 [at] prxy.net> <list-17286068 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: listening assistance systems
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:28:13 -0500

Most of Walt Disney World's shows that run off SMTPE have reflective 
captioning which conists of a LED panel at the rear of the theatre and a 
small piece of reflective glass that goes in front of the audience member. 
The live shows there have sign language interpretation upon request (though 
I think it is only available certain days of the week).  Some of the newer 
attractions actually have wireless devices which the user can wear around 
their neck which provide captioning, it sounds similiar to what Wicked 
recieved but is based on location cues rather than from a lighting console. 
Worth the money if you ask me.

Rob Carovillano
Technical Director
Bluett Theatre
Saint Joseph's University
610-660-1044
rcarovil [at] sju.edu
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael Feinberg
To: Stagecraft
Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: listening assistance systems


For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

>It claims:
><SNIP>
>I-Caption, which cost "Wicked" about $10,000, knows which dialogue to show
>by picking up wireless prompts from the light board.
><SNIP>
>
>I'm sure they mean sound console or a transmitter from the audio 
>department.
>I doubt ETC is getting into the hearing impaired market. Maybe this is a 
>new
>Obsession feature?!?

Actually, I think they were right.  My understanding of I-Caption is
that its server monitors the current light cue and text is advanced
based to a preprogrammed point corresponding with that cue.  I don't
know if it's through DMX, MIDI, ethernet, or something else that it
gets the cue information, but what to do with that would have to be
programmed into the I-Caption by someone familiar with the show and
should be console independent.  Having it based on an audio feed
would be _incredibly_ more complex and involve speech->text
conversion, which is buggy in the controlled environment of careful
speech into a boom mic by a single user that the computer has been
taught to understand, I can't imagine how bad it would be on sung
material from multiple performers picked up by a reinforcement system.

>The I-Caption, a five-ounce Dell Axim Pocket PC, is about the size of a 
>pack of cigarettes.
><SNIP>
The article is wrong in this however, as the Axim isn't really what
the I-Caption is, but really just a user terminal for the system, and
could be replaced with TVs, video projectors, individual LCD screens,
or pretty much anything else capable of displaying data.

Take a look at:
http://www.soundassociates.com/IR%20Product%20Pages/Captioner%20CS01.htm
-- 
-Michael Feinberg, CTS 


------------------------------

From: "John Vink" <jvink [at] johnsonsystems.com>
Subject: RE: We Ride!! Gas Mileage
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 14:41:59 -0700
Message-ID: <002a01c50a39$30e2f100$6801a8c0 [at] canadiansales>
In-Reply-To: <list-17283090 [at] prxy.net>

I am in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, so I would be coming from the
west.

I am considering the ride.

Your numbers are almost correct.  The most I have ever been
able to cram into my gas tank is 12 liters (3.17 Gal) and my
reserve light comes on a maximum of 170 kilometers (105 Miles)
cruising at 70-85 MPH. Works out to about 33 MPG, which seems
typical for this bike.  I have never ran it right dry, so I don't
know what the exact limit is.

I could carry a small Gerry can.  I am also considering buying an
aftermarket larger gas tank.

John

>
>    We put the gas mileage restrictions in there for a
> couple of reasons.
> #1, if we say 150, and someone who only gets 125 signs
> up, it's not a
> big deal. #2 If you're coming from the West, it will
> matter a great
> deal how much mileage you get.
>
>    Coming from the East, we're driving through
> "commerce alley" and gas
> stops will not be as critical. Coming from the West,
> each day's mileage
> is further, making fewer stops advantageous. Plus, we
> can attest from
> last year's return trip that there are occasionally at
> _least_ 110
> miles between stops. And we have a nice picture of a
> desert picnic when
> one of us (coughMOEcough) ran out of gas to prove it!
>
>    If I understand correctly, the V Max has a 4 gallon
> tank. Does it
> really only get 25 mpg?
>
>
>
> -=Greg Williams=-
> Production Manager
> Valborg Theatre
> Appalachian State University
> ------We're at it again!!!------
> Check out the Long Reach Long Riders cross country
> fund raiser for
> BC/EFA at http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html
>
>



------------------------------

From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:51:53 GMT
Subject: Re: Freelance Status
Message-Id: <20050203.135213.12571.11613 [at] webmail05.lax.untd.com>


And that is why Real Estate Salespersons in California can ONLY be Employees of a Licensed Broker, and NEVER be Independent Contractors.

Courts can ignore the intent and written agreement of all the parties to a contract, if necessary, to preserve the claims of third persons, including government agencies, or to prevent fraud or evasion of law.

It is also 'against public policy' (ie: illegal) to waive FUTURE negligence claims by contract, if anyone is prejudiced thereby. 
/s/ Richard

Our industry is certainly not the only industry that abuses the IC
relationship, but this industry is very good at it.
Bill S.


------------------------------

From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 22:14:04 GMT
Subject: Re: listening assistance systems
Message-Id: <20050203.141500.12571.11839 [at] webmail05.lax.untd.com>


The Getty Center has just announced that it now has 'walk around' devices appear similar to Palm Pilots on necklaces, that provide extensive audio, text, pictures and diagrams no matter where you go in the multi story, multi-museum 17 acre complex on 300 acres of Brentwood, CA. (not too far from the former OJ Simpson estate) With over Five Billion (yes, with a 'B') dollars in the Sarah C. Getty Trust, saving money was not their main objective, apparently. There is no rental charge for the devices nor admission charge to the museums.
/s/ Richard

Some of the newer attractions actually have wireless devices which the user can wear around their neck which provide captioning.
Worth the money if you ask me.

Rob Carovillano


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 23:38:10 +0100 (CET)
From: Maciej Ostaszewski <macieko [at] tmxnet.pl>
Reply-To: macieko [at] tmxnet.pl
Subject: Re: Palm Trees
In-Reply-To: <list-17282036 [at] prxy.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0502032329380.2117 [at] atlon>
References: <list-17282036 [at] prxy.net>
Organization: Fixed Gear Brothers

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 roguerpj [at] mn.rr.com wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> I am designing a show that will require realistic palm trees that vary
> in height from 10 to 18 feet.
>
> Anyone done this kind of thing before?
>
> My first thought is bent sq tube w/ chicken wire attached and then
> wrap with burlap. Add felt leaves and poof a palm tree.
>
> Any thoughts?

I don't know if it helps:

http://www.palma.art.pl/start_en.html

As far as I know leaves (or fronds??) was made by USA-based company.

I just found it was made by:

Ron Pecoff from Pecoff Nursery Brothers

and

Jessica Woodrow from Soul-utions.Com


regards,

maciek ostaszewski

-- 
Szybki jak [Romet] Wicher

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 17:11:12 -0600
Subject: Print Numbering
From: Greg Persinger <gregpersin [at] comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BE280BB0.988C%gregpersin [at] comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-17294142 [at] prxy.net>

OK I know someone posted their standards for print numbering for Audio,
Video, and Lighting installs.

My company is currently in the process of standardizing our print numbering
and I would like to see the list again and compare notes.

Does anyone have this or have their own list that they would be willing to
share? I can not search the archives.

Feel free to hit me on or off list.

Thanks.


Greg Persinger
Vivid Illumination

Greg [at] Vividillumination.com



------------------------------

From: "Ronnie Thevenot" <rkt [at] ronniethevenot.com>
Subject: RE: Periaktoi
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:35:30 -0700
Message-ID: <000401c50a49$0ffa27f0$6401a8c0 [at] ronnie>
In-Reply-To: <list-17279457 [at] prxy.net>

Arthur,

I recently designed and constructed a set that used 6 - 3'x10' =
equilateral
periaktoids. We framed them out of 3/4 in. steel covered the top and =
bottom
with 3/4" ply and faced them with 1/8" luan. To rotate them we attached =
3 8"
castors to the bottom of each, they were not stationary since they show =
did
travel, however they were quite stable.  I would suggest using castors =
and a
pivot point, and possibly some weight in the bottom to prevent in from
becoming top heavy.=20

The peraktoids and still in one piece after being moved four times in =
two
different trucks, except for the luan coming off of the screws but that =
is
to be expected with 1/8".

This worked well and was relatively simple (as is required when working =
with
fellow high school students).=20

Ronnie Thevenot
rkt [at] ronniethevenot.com <mailto:rkt [at] ronniethevenot.com>=20



------------------------------

From: "Jack Morones" <jmorones [at] saddleback.edu>
Subject: RE: listening assistance systems
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 15:43:04 -0800
Organization: Saddleback College
Message-ID: <001501c50a4a$1ade4880$6500a8c0 [at] SCJACKLT>
In-Reply-To: <list-17280621 [at] prxy.net>

Thanks for the info folks.

I will pass this along to my other board.

-----

Jack R. Morones
Production Manager
McKinney Theatre


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2005 18:52:50 -0500
Subject: Re: We Ride!! Gas Mileage
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE282381.3C7D%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-17289390 [at] prxy.net>

on 2/3/05 4:41 PM, John Vink at jvink [at] johnsonsystems.com wrote:

> I am in Calgary, Alberta, Canada, so I would be coming from the
> west.
> 
> I am considering the ride.
> 
> Your numbers are almost correct.  The most I have ever been
> able to cram into my gas tank is 12 liters (3.17 Gal) and my
> reserve light comes on a maximum of 170 kilometers (105 Miles)
> cruising at 70-85 MPH. Works out to about 33 MPG, which seems
> typical for this bike.  I have never ran it right dry, so I don't
> know what the exact limit is.
> 
> I could carry a small Gerry can.  I am also considering buying an
> aftermarket larger gas tank.


Hi John.  we'd love to have you join our merry group.  There is a pretty
good possibility that we will have a chase car, at least for the western
group.  They have some  long desert stretches to run through.  Pretty, but
dangerous if you get stranded.

Please feel free to contact anyone of us if you have any other questions.
That goes for anyone else who's thinking they might want to join.  Give a
shout.  We'll bend your ear for as long as you can stand it.

Thanks
Be well
Bill

www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

We stand behind, and under, our work.


------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <13c.c33a8a2.2f34175c [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:10:04 EST
Subject: Re: piano tuning

In a message dated 03/02/05 18:16:05 GMT Standard Time, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 
writes:

> > Frank, , , how old was this ?   harmonium and piano together , , two 
>  manuals 
>  >  ?   and no metal frame?
>  >  
>  >  early 1800' s?   
>  
>  Late 1900's, at a guess from the style. It was an upright, and only one 
>  keyboard. Just several stop keys.

Error. Read late 1800's or early 1900's, at choice. Very "gothic" letters on 
the stop keys, so let's say 1880 or so. The period when Victorian taste had 
started to decline. My grandfather, who was a cutler in Sheffield, spent his 
spare time in taking a penny, solemnly cutting out all the background on one side 
with a jeweller's fretsaw. The would then take it down to his works, and have 
it run through the silver-plating bath. I still have one or two specimens.



Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1dc.35e1f92d.2f3417be [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:11:42 EST
Subject: Re: piano tuning

In a message dated 03/02/05 18:17:53 GMT Standard Time, IAEG [at] aol.com writes:

> late 1900's ?   you mean like 1980 - 2000?  or did you mean to say Late 
19th 
>  Century ? 

Yes, I did. See another post of mine, created five minutes ago.

Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1a9.30cfa132.2f341907 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:17:11 EST
Subject: Re: Periaktoi

In a message dated 03/02/05 18:31:20 GMT Standard Time, 
bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com writes:

> Stability will be an issue if you don't secure the top.  we found that a
>  metal frame incorporating flange bearings top and bottom worked best.  The
>  units had a central shaft and, in the lower budget versions, were driven by
>  a bicycle chain that was hand cranked.  The key was that the drive 
mechanism
>  was at the top.
>  
>  Zat help?

It's a good way to do it. Except that I have always thought that they should 
be fully mobile, in location as well as in rotation. This usually involves 
having a crew member embedded inside, with very precise instructions. After all, 
the Greek prefix "peri" means all-round.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <30.6b6a6c1c.2f341d1c [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 19:34:36 EST
Subject: Re: piano tuning

In a message dated 03/02/05 18:37:26 GMT Standard Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes:

> >OK, but will 'Concert A' be set at 440hz, as it is in the US, or 442hz?
>  
>  Don't poke that bear.  There are as many standard tunings as there are ways
>  in which to describe 'bluish-green' to a blind person.  Or speaker
>  connection standards.

Sorry, Chris. but that isn't true. The A above middle C is 440Hz, period, and 
worldwide.

There have been times when this wasn't so. In the early years of the 20th 
century, it sometimes varied wildly. Brass bands, which include clarinets and 
saxophones are particurlarly guilty.

But, for orchestral players, 440Hz is standard. OK, the strings are flexible, 
and a clarinet or sax can probably pull the notes into tune, if they're good. 
But you can't do that with an oboe, or a flute, or a cor anglais. It makes a 
lot more work for the instrumentalists, and they may not like it. Hitting the 
right note, according to the fingering, and then having to pull it to agree 
with your neighbours is bad news.

Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <f6.496cdbc1.2f3424e0 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:07:44 EST
Subject: Re: piano tuning


In a message dated 2/3/05 7:35:56 PM, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com writes:

>Sorry, Chris. but that isn't true. The A above middle C is 440Hz, period,
>and 
>worldwide.


Sorry Frank, , it's not, , , 

440 hz is the "default" "concert pitch"  but by choice and practice it varies 
greatly amongst the great orchestras of the world, , some European orchestras 
tune as high as 444

I have heard of one ( not in Europe, and not in my memory at the moment ) 
that tunes as low as 439 

the differences are not noticable to the "average ear" but obviously the 
music directors of these orchestras feel that there is a difference,

It's thought that the A above high C in late classical , early romantic time 
might was significantly lower and that over time relative pitch has risen.

------------------------------

Message-ID: <1107480969.4202d18913c3f [at] webmail.telus.net>
Date: Thu,  3 Feb 2005 17:36:09 -0800
From: rodok [at] telus.net
Subject: silk
References: <list-17303465 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-17303465 [at] prxy.net>

I'm looking for a source for large sheets of silk, 30 or 40 feet square. Light
weight or medium wt. 
Any ideas?
Rod Osiowy
Wild Theatre
Cranbrook, BC
250-426-5241


------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1d6.35c25712.2f342d02 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:42:26 EST
Subject: Re: silk


In a message dated 2/3/05 8:36:56 PM, rodok [at] telus.net writes:

>I'm looking for a source for large sheets of silk, 30 or 40 feet square.
>Light
>
>weight or medium wt. 
>
>Any ideas?
>
>Rod Osiowy
>
>Wild Theatre
>
>Cranbrook, BC
>
>250-426-5241


real silk?  

hey Vancouver is a great import town,, 

I'd go down and rummage around Chinatown fabric shops, 

then I'd call Rosebrand, Dazian or Gerriets

but not certain that they would have REAL silk , , which by the way likes to 
go 'POOF' when exposed to a flame, , , 

you don't say the dimensions, , just the square footage, , doubt you will 
find fabric off the shelve wider than 72 ", , unless from a real specialty place, 
, 

good luck


best,

Keith Arsenault

IAEG -  International Arts & Entertainment Group 
Tampa, Florida

------------------------------

Message-ID: <059501c50a5a$ec3c33f0$0400a8c0 [at] ALFOFFICE>
Reply-To: "Alf Sauve" <alf [at] sauve.org>
From: "Alf Sauve" <alf [at] sauve.org>
References: <list-17266543 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: piano tuning
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:33:22 -0500

Question still stands.  Who has first hand knowledge of the rider for some 
of the bigger names?  In regards to piano tuning?

Interested to see how they spec it out.

Alf 


------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <c4.2049f7f2.2f342e26 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 20:47:18 EST
Subject: Re: piano tuning


In a message dated 2/3/05 8:43:43 PM, alf [at] sauve.org writes:

>Question still stands.  Who has first hand knowledge of the rider for some
>
>
>of the bigger names?  In regards to piano tuning?


 i would say in terms of pop stars,,  I would doubt that any of them ask for 
anything other than A440, ,

Classical artists, , soloists in recital might ask for a special tuning other 
than 440, , but only bigger names would actually get what they asked for,, 
smaller names would probably get laughed at by presenters.  Classical artists 
doing concerti with a symphony MIGHT get a special tuning, , but they would have 
to be huge stars to get a pitch other than the one that the orchestra 
traditionally used, , 

 it would come down to "clout"

keith


------------------------------

End of Stagecraft Digest #282
*****************************