Return-Path: X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.6) with PIPE id 17517231; Sun, 06 Feb 2005 03:00:34 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.6 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #286 Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2005 03:00:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on prxy.net X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.5 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #286 1. Re: Freelance Status by "Delbert Hall" 2. Independent contractors vs employees by "Delbert Hall" 3. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by "Alf Sauve" 4. Re: piano tuning by Fred Fisher 5. Re: We Ride!! Gas Mileage by "Wayne Rasmussen" 6. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by Dale Farmer 7. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by Greg Persinger 8. Why not use single phase for stage lighting by kim.hartshorn [at] plattsburgh.edu 9. Re: piano tuning by "richard j. archer" 10. Re: piano tuning by Tony Miller 11. Re: piano tuning by "Tom Heemskerk" 12. Ampacity. Was: Proper sizing of neutrals by Dale Farmer 13. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 14. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 15. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 16. Re: Yo, Frank Wood, I gotcher Matchless rightchere! by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 17. Re: Freelance status 1099's by Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com 18. Re: Censorship by Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com 19. Re: piano tuning by "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" 20. Re: piano tuning by "Tom Heemskerk" 21. Re: Censorship by Fred Fisher 22. Re: proper sizing of neutral by Sunil Rajan 23. Re: proper sizing of neutral by Mike Brubaker 24. Re: piano tuning by Fred Fisher 25. Re: More on Neutrals (long) by Mitch Hefter 26. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by Mitch Hefter 27. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 28. Re: Censorship by Jacqueline Haney Kidwell 29. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 30. Re: Proper sizing of neutrals by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 31. Re: piano tuning by "Alf Sauve" 32. You know it's going to be a bad show day when.... by Dale Farmer 33. Re: You know it's going to be a bad show day when.... by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: RE: Freelance Status Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 07:03:23 -0500 You might want to talk to an employment attorney about this. I met with one a few years ago and she was VERY informative. I know the US laws changed last year concerning who is requied to get overtime, but I do not know if they changed concerning who is an independent contractor. I have to be at the theatre soon and don't have time to do a web search on this. -Delbert Delbert L. Hall 423-773-HALL (4255) > > >This peeked my interest. If we are not a independent contractors then > >what are we? > >Employees. I dunno about where you are, but I don't fit (exactly) into the >description of "independent contractor". For example, I tend to not bring >my own tools. I also tend to have a specific call time. Just two ways the >US govt. distinguishes employees from IC's. > Chris "Chris" Babbie > Location Sound > OTR > >Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates >negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Independent contractors vs employees Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 07:32:53 -0500 Here is the IRS site in Independent contractors vs employees http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=99921,00.html Delbert L. Hall 423-773-HALL (4255) ------------------------------ Message-ID: <009101c50b87$c086fe10$0400a8c0 [at] ALFOFFICE> Reply-To: "Alf Sauve" From: "Alf Sauve" References: Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 08:18:44 -0500 I'd love the spread sheet please. Alf ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 12:31 AM Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I do still have that spreadsheet, from 2002, > slightly improved. > > Anybody wants it, you can email me direct > and I'll email it back to you as an attachment. > > Anybody want to post it on a website > (again, we went through this before) ? > > Good point that the max neutral RMS current > does not coincide with all 3 phases fully loaded, > so heating in the conduit [cable] is not > 4x the heat of one wire at 100%. > > Frank, with your background you should be able to > do the math to see that third & 3x harmonics > do not cancel in a threephase neutral. With all three loads > at 100%, there is no harmonics (load waveforms are full sinusoidals) > and cancellation in the neutral is complete, as you would expect. > > But if you set all three phases to 50% conduction angle, > the RMS current in each phase is 75% of full, > and the RMS current in the neutral is 100%... greater than > any individual phase current, and it is dominated by > the 180 Hz component (3x the fundamental). Not a pretty sinusoid because > there are higher order harmonics in there too, to make up the > truncated-in-time individual phase waveforms that the dimmer makes. > > As you set different cutoffs in the different phases, it gets uglier. > > The combination A=0%, B=50%, C=100% (conduction angles) > produces a neutral current of 124%. > > Somebody at a dot-edu with an EE department > should be able to get a student to set up a Spice simulation > and search for the worst-case neutral loading. > > My .xls neglects the fact that the load resistance in B at 50% is reduced > (cooler lamp filament) > thus its RMS current is higher than simply doing the time truncation > calculates. > Rise time slew rate limiters (lump inductors) are also not accounted for. > A ***Really Ambitious*** student could simulate these as well. > > > You could also set up an experiment with 3 5$ hardware store dimmers > (rated 600W), 3 identical lamps, and an ammeter (true RMS, good to about > 20KHz > to include up to about the 3x10th harmonic). And of course a 3-phase > supply. > Twiddle the knobs, set 100-0-0 to calibrate the 100% point, you will > easily > then be able to drive the neutral current over that level by varying the > settings. > > > For some reason you weren't able to run this .xls when > this thread went around before. I'll make some PDFs > of a couple of example settings and send them to you. > Waveform summations is a pretty clear picture. > > > > Regards, > > Dan Sheehan > > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 10:12:16 -0600 From: Fred Fisher Subject: Re: piano tuning In-reply-to: Message-id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050205093207.0193b508 [at] wiscmail.wisc.edu> References: We have "name" pianists come through here all the time. Their requirements vary quite a bit. Alfred Brendel will be here in April and he requires the producer fly his own tuner from Steinway in NYC. Our tuner is also here when the other guy is. We have a very good Steinway D with a Hamburg action and ours is tuned before every rehearsal and often, but not always touched up before a performance, sometimes touched up again at intermission. If our piano is not used for a month, the tuner comes in and gives it a touch up tuning. When having to change from a 440 C to 444 C, he does it in two steps over a couple of days and takes a couple of days to take it back to 440. We keep the piano in an insulated box with a humidifier and dehumidifier in it and it stays pretty constant at 70 degrees and 40% humidity. We bring it out on stage the day before it's used to acclimate to current conditions. Most guest pianists practice day of concert for three to four hours. The tuner tunes before they come in and usually checks back with them after the artist has practiced. When the piano was purchased, about 11 years ago, our tuner, a couple of faculty members from the school of music and our director went to the Steinway showroom in NYC and tried several pianos before deciding on one they felt would sound good in our space. Our tuner installed the Hamburg action about six years later. Emmanuel Ax loves our piano and has even come over to practice on ours before playing at another venue in town. We've had many of the top pianists here, both classical soloists and accompanyists , jazz, and 99% have been very happy with our instrument. FYI, Midori carries a custom sized stick with her which is about halfway between low stick (or the coat rack for some pianists) and high stick so the piano doesn't loom too large behind her. For the most part, the very famous pianists are not hard to work with. I've had a less pleasant time with local pianists whose ego outstrips their talent. Oh yes, we also put a 1927 Steinway upright in a dressing room so the pianists can keep their fingers warm during 1/2 hour and intermission. That piano is untunable, but they understand and still use it. One of the percs of my job is listening to the artists practice while sitting in my office off stage. It's like a private concert. Finally, we ask the artist to autograph the harp after the concert. They are happy to do that and usually comment on their friends who have also played the piano. Fred Fisher At 08:24 PM 2/4/2005 -0600, you wrote: >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > > >From: "Alf Sauve" wrote: > > > Question still stands. Who has first hand knowledge of the rider for some > > of the bigger names? In regards to piano tuning? > > > > Interested to see how they spec it out. > > > > Alf > >I just tossed my copy of the Michael Feinstein rider. (I consider him a big >name, but heck, I'm in Omaha) I would be happy to find a copy and mail or >fax it to you. It was very specific on many points including; "Tuner must >speak English and be sober." Let me know if you are interested. > >John Gibilisco >Omaha Community Playhouse - ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003c01c50ba0$c2c6d290$0617000a [at] blair.edu> From: "Wayne Rasmussen" Subject: Re: We Ride!! Gas Mileage Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 11:35:53 -0500 John, You might consider an auxiliary fuel cell attached to the back of the bike. The Iron Butt riders use them, but I don't know if they are custom-made or not. If you'd like, I can send the very same 2 gallon plastic can I bought during last year's ride to augment the fuel supply of one or two of our merry band. A Yamaha addition is always welcome--I have great respect for someone who can ride a V-Max long distances. I hope you'll consider joining us! Wayne Rasmussen Blair Academy Honda ST1100 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4204F7CA.9725E170 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 11:43:54 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals References: murr rhame wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > If you have to double the neutral in a three phase stage lighting > system, you'd be using one and two-thirds full sized conductors > per hot leg. Does the neutral have to be larger than the hot > legs in a 240V single phase system? If not, a 240V single phase > system would provide one hot leg for every one and a half full > sized conductors. For a given amount of total power, the 240V > single phase option uses significantly less copper. Why use > three phase at all for stage lighting? At a casual glance, a > three phase service doesn't seem to have any advantage for stage > lighting. > > - murr - Because of the way that power is distributed throughout the US, heavy power hookups come only in three phase. Yes, there is no reason three phase is any better for lighting, but since that is what is economically available, that's pretty much what gets used. One could put in a motor-generator set, turning the three phase into single phase to feed the dimmer bank, but the additional expense, additional points of failure, and loss of efficiency would argue against that. --Dale ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 10:53:07 -0600 Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals From: Greg Persinger Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Eddie Kramer wrote: > 520.53(O)(1) refers to connections inside the dimmer rack. 520.53(O)(2) is > where the 130% requirement is. It says that the neutral shall be considered a > current carrying conductor (this refers all the way back to the service > equipment). It also says when single conductor feeder cables are used and they > are not installed in raceways (NEC speak for conduit and the like), the > neutral shall have an ampacity of 130% of the ungrounded conductors. Thanks for the clarifications. The wording here is a bit misleading as it sounds to me as the total ampacity of all conductors. The neutral having an ampacity of 130% of the largest ungrounded conductor makes much more sense all the way around. So is the neutral in the conduit not a concern because of its larger cable size due to de-rating? Just trying to get my head around this. Thanks. Greg Persinger Vivid Illumination Greg [at] Vividillumination.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1107622076.4204f8bcece69 [at] webmail.plattsburgh.edu> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 11:47:56 -0500 From: kim.hartshorn [at] plattsburgh.edu Subject: Why not use single phase for stage lighting References: In-Reply-To: My educated guess would be that the main reason not to use single phase power for stage lighting has nothing to do with lighting but with the relatively high loads a significant lighting rig draws. Since the power company operates in three phases it has a vested interest in keeping the loads on its grid balanced. A large lighting rig on single phase could cause a significant headache for a local utility company...exactly how I am not positive of but would enjoy learning if anyone out there has the answers. My guess is that, in concert with the thread on over-sized neutrals, current draw and back voltage issues may start to crop up at the substation level. Probably a single lighting rig could be dealt with but by random luck and uneven phase loading from somewhere else might be enough to shutdown a substation. I was an undergrad at Michigan Tech...you know...one of those engineering schools. One night the electrical engineer on duty (not the professor...the real guy from the university power plant)stopped by during rehearsal, pretty upset. Wanted to know what the hell we were doing to his power curve or some such. Never really figured it out....we repatched in a different configuration and redid our feeder cables in figure eights instead of stacked loops and the issue went away. The power guy thought it was the stacked loops that did it. Something about an induced load cause backvoltage. I wish I knew more back then I would have paid more attention. Then maybe my guesses would be more educated :-) Kim Hartshorn ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:06:03 -0500 From: "richard j. archer" Subject: Re: piano tuning > >--------------------------------------------------- > >We have "name" pianists come through here all the time. ...... >Fred Fisher > > >>From: "Alf Sauve" wrote: >> >>> Question still stands. Who has first hand knowledge of the rider for some >>> of the bigger names? In regards to piano tuning? >>> >>> Interested to see how they spec it out. >>> >> > Alf >> If Fred's post isn't enough for you , you might try contacting Steve Truitt off list. He's the TD at Bass Hall in Fort Worth, home of the Van Cliburn International Piano Competition and Cliburn Concerts. They have a whole room full of Steinways (and others). Dick A TD, Cornell Univ ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 17:33:45 +0000 Subject: Re: piano tuning From: Tony Miller Message-ID: From: "Alf Sauve" wrote: > Question still stands. Who has first hand knowledge of the rider for some > of the bigger names? In regards to piano tuning? > > Interested to see how they spec it out. > > Alf If you are looking for riders have a look at http://www.thesmokinggun.com/backstagetour/index.html There are a selection of about a couple of hundred to choose from, from all sorts of bands and solo artists. Tony Miller. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <63746.66.183.177.34.1107625424.squirrel [at] 66.183.177.34> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 09:43:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: piano tuning From: "Tom Heemskerk" > >>>From: "Alf Sauve" wrote: >>> >>>> Question still stands. Who has first hand knowledge of the rider for >>>> some >>>> of the bigger names? In regards to piano tuning? >>>> >>>> Interested to see how they spec it out. >>>> I'm jumping in late here, but many riders I've seen for pop and jazz arstists simply indicate the piano is to be tuned to A440 before arrival, and often with a touch-up tuning between sound check and show. Occasionally the tuner is required to stay on-site until after intermission. For concert pianists I have not seen much on paper regarding tuning, but common practise here is for the tuner to work before a rehearsal, then meet with the soloist afterwards to hear specifics and adjust accordingly. From what I've seen solists call for voicing adjustments most often, and the tuning itself seldom gets a commment. Perhaps that's due to the skill of our tuner and the conditon of our piano, but that's what happens.... ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42050705.8BD38416 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 12:48:53 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Ampacity. Was: Proper sizing of neutrals References: Greg Persinger wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Eddie Kramer wrote: > > > 520.53(O)(1) refers to connections inside the dimmer rack. 520.53(O)(2) is > > where the 130% requirement is. It says that the neutral shall be considered a > > current carrying conductor (this refers all the way back to the service > > equipment). It also says when single conductor feeder cables are used and they > > are not installed in raceways (NEC speak for conduit and the like), the > > neutral shall have an ampacity of 130% of the ungrounded conductors. > > Thanks for the clarifications. The wording here is a bit misleading as it > sounds to me as the total ampacity of all conductors. > > The neutral having an ampacity of 130% of the largest ungrounded conductor > makes much more sense all the way around. > > So is the neutral in the conduit not a concern because of its larger cable > size due to de-rating? > > Just trying to get my head around this. Much of the issues that we are indirectly wrestling with here are basically relating to cable heating in the conduit. Let me lay out some basics here. Conductors have electrical resistance. This resistance is based on the conductor cross section and what metal it is made from. Silver is lower resistance than copper, which is lower resistance than iron, which is lower resistance than rubber. For a given resistance, passing a current through it will turn a certain amount of it into heat in the conductor. This heat will build up and dissipate according to the thermal resistance around it, and the ambient temperature. This lost energy manifests as a drop in voltage at the far end, and is variable depending on total current flow, the higher the current flow, the more voltage drop. It's a percentage thing and I never quite grokked the mathematics of it myself. Anyway, the more heat that builds up in a conductor, it can do things like melt the insulators around the conductor, which then fail and lead to big sparks happening not on cue and not on spot. This is generally regarded as a bad thing. This all leads to the subject of ampacity of a conductor. The ampacity is how many amperes of current it can carry safely for a given distance in a given set of conditions with a given insulation. So a set of cables that are hanging in free air outdoors can carry a lot more current safely in the wintertime than in the summertime. Cables in a conduit have to get rid of the heat by conduction into their surroundings, which is slower, thus more heat builds up, so you have to increase the size of the conductors to reduce resistance heating in the conduit. Although this is talked about coming from the other direction in the NEC, where it is called derating. You can also use insulation that has higher softening and melting points. This is further complicated by rules about conduit fill percentages and current carrying versus non-current carrying conductors. A safety ground conductor ( the green wire) which in NEC speak is called the grounding conductor, normally doesn't carry any current. Thus it can be ignored as a heat source for derating purposes. The neutral conductor ( The white wire in the US ), referred to as the grounded conductor in NEC-speak, normally only carries the imbalances between the current carrying conductors, thus for most installations, any heat generated from it is made up for by less heat being generated in the phase or hot conductors. Thus it can sometimes ( and here is where a lot of hot air gets vented ) be counted as a non-current carrying conductor, since it theoretically doesn't add any heat to the conduit that isn't made up for by less heat coming from the other conductors. NEC also allows it to be smaller than the hots under some conditions, since it only carries the imbalances. Also, note the NEC-speak terms. The grounded versus the grounding conductors. ONe is the safety ground, the other is the neutral, and there lays a lot of mistakes when one misses that crucial difference. What I wrote here is glossing over a lot of stuff, and no doubt I've made a few mistakes, as I'm typing this before my morning caffeine has taken effect. IF you really want to talk about this stuff, join the show-power mailing list. --Dale ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <86.2122a9d0.2f36634d [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:58:37 EST Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals In a message dated 05/02/05 02:16:21 GMT Standard Time, richw [at] unionconnector.com writes: > I think you misunderstood me, or perhaps I wasn't clear. The run from the > 600A. disconnect to the 200A. company switch should be protected by 600A. > fuses or multi-pole breaker. And run in 600A cable. It is, or should be, mandatory that the cable is protected by the last fuse or breaker it sees. It might save money to fit a 200A breaker near to the 600A source. Assuming that is the case, the phase conductors > must be sized to accommodate 600A. per leg. The NEUTRAL is not protected by > an overcurrent device. If the facilities people are computing neutral size > conductors based on net maximum load, they will consider the fact that the > Company Switch has a 200A. breaker, so the maximum load would never be more > than 200A. If the Company Switch tries to draw any more than 200A., it's > breaker will trip and deenergize the system it feeds. Consequently, they > might run a Neutral feeder that is a 200% Neutral FOR 200A!!! Probably a > pair of 250MCM. This would effectively be an "undersized" Neutral for a > 600A. feeder, but adequate for the 200A. Company Switch. I'm not saying it's > a recommended practice, but it would pass inspection in many jurisdictions. It wouldn't over here, but our rules are different. But, again, the cable size depends on the last protection device it sees. > > As to the other discussions considering code guidelines for portable > systems, etc. - The Company Switch is not a piece of portable gear. It may > feed portable equipment, so as a practical matter it should have connectors, > overcurrent devices and neutral sizing as required for those devices. There > is no requirement for this. A Company Switch feeding a dimmer rack should > definitely have a 200% neutral, as this is required in the rack, and the > Switch should consist of at least he same size conductors. Company Switches > can be used for other devices than dimmer racks, however, and may not need a > 200% neutral for those applications. Here is where you need to sit down and > explain to the facilities people exactly what the purpose of the Switch is, > and the considerations needed to install it safely. I don't know the > politics in your local area, but a talk with the local Authority Having > Jurisdiction ( inspector ) might be a good idea. Your code is different from mine, but you must adhere to it. Double neutrals are unknown, in the UK, and I have heard of no problems. The advice, in another post, to read the code, and to wave it at the facilities people is good. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <59.209ab209.2f3663e9 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 13:01:13 EST Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals In a message dated 05/02/05 03:48:58 GMT Standard Time, mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com writes: > FPN = Fine Print Note - informational,but not prescriptive. > > Some reduction is still permitted in situations we're unlikely to encounter > in the entertainment industry. Your rules are just as impenetrable as ours. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <15.3dd47d37.2f36647a [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 13:03:38 EST Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals In a message dated 05/02/05 05:31:52 GMT Standard Time, DanSLDME [at] aol.com writes: > Frank, with your background you should be able to > do the math to see that third & 3x harmonics > do not cancel in a threephase neutral. With all three loads > at 100%, there is no harmonics (load waveforms are full sinusoidals) > and cancellation in the neutral is complete, as you would expect. > > But if you set all three phases to 50% conduction angle, > the RMS current in each phase is 75% of full, > and the RMS current in the neutral is 100%... greater than > any individual phase current, and it is dominated by > the 180 Hz component (3x the fundamental). Not a pretty sinusoid because > there are higher order harmonics in there too, to make up the > truncated-in-time individual phase waveforms that the dimmer makes. > > As you set different cutoffs in the different phases, it gets uglier. > > The combination A=0%, B=50%, C=100% (conduction angles) > produces a neutral current of 124%. I'll get down to it, when I've got my current show out of my hair. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <76.4c36f1f2.2f366583 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 13:08:03 EST Subject: Re: Yo, Frank Wood, I gotcher Matchless rightchere! In a message dated 05/02/05 07:09:33 GMT Standard Time, lschreib [at] mail.sdsu.edu writes: > Hey Frank, why don't you join us for the Long Reach Long Riders, "Out of > the Wings and Into the Wind" ride for Broadway Cares, Equity Fights AIDS? Point one, I live in the UK. Point two, I can't ride a bike. Point three, I'm 65 years old, and my reaction times are not what they were. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Subject: Re:Freelance status 1099's Message-ID: From: Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 13:51:48 -0500 on 2/3 Scot wrote: From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2005 21:04:35 GMT Subject: Re: Freelance Status Message-Id: <20050203.130454.12571.11194 [at] webmail05.lax.untd.com> The key is the 'HOW" of performing the task more than the 'WHEN'. If they tell you HOW to build that flat or costume, or HOW to rig that drape or sound board, you are probably an employee. /s/ Richard Rob, From my understanding, and this is very simplistic, it basically boils down to who sets the schedule. Scott I'm a few days behind on the list so others may have given better answers but: It's the IRS that wants to know, largely because they get a bigger cut sooner (Self Employment Tax which is due quarterly) if you are freelance and get a 1099. It also determines whether you may use Schedule 'C' and deduct legitimate supplies and expenses. There are several hoops to jump through: Who decides when the job begins and ends, who says: "You can break for lunch now", who says: That's not right do it over.", who says the job's complete. Who supplies tools? If you lift the piano on a fork and it's damaged who's liable. There are other hoops to jump through as well. You can get a form (IIRC it's an S8) from the IRS to fill out and they will make that call for you. When you hire a plumber he's truly an independent contractor: as we know he'll turn up when he wants to, break when he wants to, supply his own tools and will tell you when he's finished. If he has a helper who he tells when to arrive, when to leave etc., that person is an employee. Dang, I do miss Schedule 'C'. Marty Petlock Technical Facilities Manager Van Wezel P.A.H. Sarasota, FL. ********** E-mail messages sent or received by City of Sarasota officials and employees in connection with official City business are public records subject to disclosure under the Florida Public Records Act. ********** ------------------------------ Subject: Re: Censorship Message-ID: From: Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 14:09:07 -0500 Ask why the 'URINETOWN' tour was cancelled. Marty Petlock Technical Facilities Manager Van Wezel P.A.H. Sarasota, FL. ********** E-mail messages sent or received by City of Sarasota officials and employees in connection with official City business are public records subject to disclosure under the Florida Public Records Act. ********** ------------------------------ From: "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" Subject: RE: piano tuning Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 14:48:51 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20050205194851.LAG2034.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net [at] p3m866> > From what I've seen solists call for voicing adjustments most > often, and the tuning itself seldom gets a commment. Perhaps > that's due to the skill of our tuner and the conditon of our > piano, but that's what happens.... Piano voicing adjustments on demand... That's very interesting! Certainly, the tonal range and "hardness" of tone will vary hugely from instrument to instrument. The problem is, it's easy to soften tone with a hammer pick, but very difficult (i.e. pretty much not possible on short notice) to make the tone harder. It's fine if one note jumps out too "hot". But a huge problem if one note is "dead". Properly voicing a piano for tonal consistency across the keys AND across the range of expression is a big job. One last comment on fanning of tuning (flat bass notes, sharp treble notes). This is all about harmonics on a wound string not being exactly in tune with the fundamental. The shorter the strings, the bigger the problem of sharp (higher pitch) harmonics. The tuner will find the compromise for each instrument where the fundamental is pleasing while the harmonics do not beat too much with the middle register. On "baby grands" you pretty much can't find this happy medium, the low strings are just too fat and harmonically ugly. So, it's not about choosing how much fanning you like, it's about fanning appropriately for a given instrument. Different strings on the same instrument will require different fanning. A good tuner does it intuitively by ear. An electronic tuner generally only hears the fundamental, by selecting highest amplitude component of a wave; thus, tuning with electronic assistance is more successful with larger, better instruments and very problematic with shorter more typical instruments. I'll stop harping (pun intended) about this now. Jim ------------------------------ Message-ID: <60274.66.183.177.34.1107634729.squirrel [at] 66.183.177.34> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 12:18:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: piano tuning From: "Tom Heemskerk" > > Certainly, > the tonal range and "hardness" of tone will vary hugely from instrument to > instrument. The problem is, it's easy to soften tone with a hammer pick, > but very difficult (i.e. pretty much not possible on short notice) to make > the tone harder. It's fine if one note jumps out too "hot". But a huge > problem if one note is "dead". Properly voicing a piano for tonal > consistency across the keys AND across the range of expression is a big > job. > Quite true. The sort of adjustments I was referring to are exactly what you describe. I'll guess it's more likely for a hammer to need softening, since they get compressed with extreme prejudice all the time. I believe a drop of lacquer is a quick fix to a dead hammer, but that's a no-no on most pianos..... th ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 14:59:50 -0600 From: Fred Fisher Subject: Re: Censorship In-reply-to: Message-id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050205131620.019dbdd0 [at] wiscmail.wisc.edu> For me, let's go back to the Sixties. In 1967, a group of anti war activists here on the U. of Wisconsin campus decided to do a production of Barbara Garson's "MacBird", her adaptation of the Scottish play to current American culture. The University let them use a large lecture hall on campus where they rehearsed and performed. They were constantly harassed by the campus police the whole time they were in there. At the time, we suspected (confirmed many years later by the FBI and DIA) that all the anti war people and civil rights activists were being harassed by J. Edgar and his minions in an attempt to intimidate us into passivity. That didn't work of course. The production was roundly lambasted by the press and authorities. I worked on a few productions with Stuart Gordon on the same campus and we had constant concerns about the productions being stopped by the University, the district attorney or the audience. After I left Madison, he did his infamous Peter Pan with the nude lost "boys" (played by women). That production was shuttered by the Board of Regents. We sometimes engaged in our own censorship. A common production technique of the time was to involve the audience in aggressive ways. If that was done to us, we would interrupt the play right back. We all looked upon it as extemporaneous performance. We all had a good time. Moving to UW-M, I went to a performance in the little theater there of a piece directed by Conrad and Linda Bishop. They tried to be in our face and I got right back in theirs. Many of my classmates were shocked and the Bishop's were pretty upset right afterwards. Later on, Linda thanked me for responding to what they were trying to do. A year later, during the student strike after the Kent State murders, we were doing a lame production of Tamerlane and some of the protesters invaded the theater and walked on stage followed by helmeted riot police and stopped our performance. That was the best thing that happened during the whole run. The dept. agreed to not do the play at that time. We stored the set and remounted it in the fall. More currently. Last year a local production of the Passion of Christ was picketed by some local clergy. A few years ago, students at Viterbo College were barred from doing a production of The Vagina Monologues. Last fall, East High School did The Laramie Project and the student who was to play Fred (no relation) Phelps wrote him to ask him some questions. Phelps brought his entourage to town and picketed the high school. Of course that helped to sell out the house. That same weekend, Edgewood College, on the west side, was doing the same show to little notice. We don't censor anyone who appears on our stages. Most of the time, when someone tries to be contraversial, we just shake our heads at the shallowness of the performance. I was surprised recently, during a musical performance, when the main act came out on stage and came down to the edge of the apron and let the audience of 10-16 year old girls grope him under the towel he had hanging from his waist band. Later on in the performance, they brought a girl up on stage and the singer and his two male back up singers did a lap dance on her. We got complaints on it and referred them to the outside producer who brought the show in. Fred Fisher ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <1EA3B092-77BA-11D9-9550-000A95BD64AC [at] earthlink.net> From: Sunil Rajan Subject: Re: proper sizing of neutral Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 16:08:44 -0500 On Feb 5, 2005, at 12:53 AM, Stagecraft wrote: > From: "Karl G. Ruling" > Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2005 10:10:52 -0500 > Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals > > But you shouldn't take my word for this; I'm just some guy on the > Internet giving free advice. :-) Odd that I should read this now, after having a strange thought yesterday about cable/power. I've seen some scary things that pass for theatrical/entertainment/"power" these days, especially the actual Electricians! I know that most (all?) universities and schools must have licensed electricians for their services. Most theatres (and spaces that like to pretend they are) don't have such standards (if any). Other than House Electricians (I.A.T.S.E./IBEW) in most venues, I wonder how many road folks or theatre heads are certified/licensed? Just curious, as I was wondering what it takes to become a licensed electrician. Someone a few years ago posted a link on this mailing list to an > Excel spreadsheet that showed why an oversize neutral was needed. > With this spreadsheet you could set three virtual SCR dimmers, one on > each of the three phases, and it would calculate the neutral current. Most shows I know of now that are going on the road (or even into "decent" theatres) are carrying isolation transformers. I love watching a lot of house guys say "uh... you know... you haven't tied in your neutral?"! OK, back to lurking... Cheers, Sunil Rajan Freelance Audio Mercenary ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20050205170848.019a6ac0 [at] mail.insightbb.com> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 17:09:37 -0500 From: Mike Brubaker Subject: Re: proper sizing of neutral In-Reply-To: References: Depends on the state, and sometimes even the city, whether that is a requirement or not. Mike At 04:08 PM 2/5/2005, Sunil Rajan wrote: pass for theatrical/entertainment/"power" these days, especially the actual Electricians! I know that most (all?) universities and schools must have licensed electricians for their services. Most theatres (and spaces that like to pretend they are) don't have ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 16:10:34 -0600 From: Fred Fisher Subject: Re: piano tuning In-reply-to: Message-id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050205160658.019b4e20 [at] wiscmail.wisc.edu> References: They have a little "pic" to fluff up the felt. Every couple of years, the action is removed and the hammers are filed to the correct shape and the action adjusted to compensate for the removed material. Fred Fisher At 12:18 PM 2/5/2005 -0800, you wrote: >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Certainly, > > the tonal range and "hardness" of tone will vary hugely from instrument to > > instrument. The problem is, it's easy to soften tone with a hammer pick, > > but very difficult (i.e. pretty much not possible on short notice) to make > > the tone harder. It's fine if one note jumps out too "hot". But a huge > > problem if one note is "dead". Properly voicing a piano for tonal > > consistency across the keys AND across the range of expression is a big > > job. > > > > >Quite true. The sort of adjustments I was referring to are exactly what >you describe. I'll guess it's more likely for a hammer to need softening, >since they get compressed with extreme prejudice all the time. I believe a >drop of lacquer is a quick fix to a dead hammer, but that's a no-no on >most pianos..... > >th ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/ ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20050205151323.02085600 [at] mail.DesignRelief.com> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 16:54:20 -0600 From: Mitch Hefter Subject: Re: More on Neutrals (long) In-Reply-To: References: Frank Wood wrote: >Some of us on the list claim that the third and ninth harmonics >generated by dimmers will add in the neutral. I am not among them. Frank - I believe you are the only one not among them. The provisions in the National Electrical Code, the most widely adopted Code in the world, is developed through the most rigorous of open consensus process. Thousands of people contribute, and anyone can - from anywhere. There is consensus on this - and I believe one can say, its nearly unanimous. There are many, many companies that deal with this harmonics issue. I previously posted a link to one of Fluke's papers on this topic. It's still there: http://www.fluke.com/download/library/1260362_w.pdf From page 3: "In a four-wire system with single-phase, non-linear loads, certain odd-numbered harmonics called triplens — odd multiples of the third harmonic: 3rd, 9th, 15th, etc — do not cancel, but rather add together in the neutral conductor." You may not believe me - but will you believe Fluke? It might not be intuitive, but the facts are there. Many of us have seen it. Most of us deal with it some fashion. All of us, except you, accept the fact. >What determines the heating in a cable, by which its size is >determined, is the RMS current. If your dimmers are putting out significant >quantities of harmonics, the power supply company may be unhappy. In another message, Frank Wood wrote: > > "Now for the long winded explanation: > > In Chapter 3 (article 310), there is a requirement that "on a 4-wire, > > 3-phase wye circuit where the major portion of the load consists of > > nonlinear loads, harmonic currents are present in the neutral conductor; > > the neutral shall therefore be considered a current-carrying > > conductor." > >fer crye eye eye eye. The neutral must be able to carry the current from any >loaded phase. Phase A at 100%m and B and C at zero. In the NEC, wires are sized for the overcurrent protection on the circuit, the load to be carried, including whether or not the load is continuous, non-continuous, or combination thereof, and must also take into account the number of conductors in a raceway (including conduit), and the temperature rating of the conductor insulation. If there are more than 3 current-carrying conductors in a raceway, then the conductors must be derated. The Code has allowed the neutral to not be counted as a current-carrying conductor in many situations for many, many years. In fact, as noted in a different posting, it is allowed to be undersized in some installations. Therefore, in a simple 3-phase, 4-wire circuit with a linear load, because of current cancellation, the Code permits not counting the neutral as a current-carrying conductor. In the case of a single 3-phase, 4-wire 20 amp circuit in a conduit using 75 degree C wire, you can use #14 AWG (3 current carrying conductors). If you add another circuit, you must derate the wires at 80%. Therefore, the #14 AWG rated at 20 amps now can only be considered capable of 16 amps. To address this, you upsize the wire to a #12 AWG 75 degree C wire rated at 25 amps - apply the derating, and now you have 20 amp wire. IF you don't add another circuit, but your load is non-linear, you must consider the neutral as a current-carrying conductor. there are now 4 current-carry conductors in the conduit, and derating applies. The NEC dates back to 1896. Non-linear loads were not much of an issue back then. As the issues with harmonics have grown over the years, the Code has made allowances without totalling "upsetting the apple cart" on previous practices. The requirements elsewhere may be different and may indeed be more uniform in application than the NEC without so many exceptions and applications rules. We work with what we have. We make proposals for change. As I stated in my Show-Power list posting (as Kevin Linzey re-posted most of here): "We are much more sensitive to the issue of harmonics these days due to explosive growth in IT placing more non-linear loads on the power grid, and in our industry due to the increased use of arc sources, cutting down our load utilization diversity. We will have to change some of our practices." . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mitch Hefter mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com Member NEC Panel 15 Office: Entertainment Technology / a Division of the Genlyte Group mhefter [at] genlyte.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20050205150119.02decae0 [at] mail.DesignRelief.com> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 16:57:17 -0600 From: Mitch Hefter Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals In-Reply-To: References: Frank Wood wrote: > > Neutral. > > (1) Neutral Terminal. In portable switchboard equipment designed for use > > with 3-phase, 4-wire with ground supply, the supply neutral terminal, its > > associated busbar, or equivalent wiring, or both, shall have an ampacity > > equal to at least twice the ampacity of the largest ungrounded supply > > terminal. > >Why? Engineering reasons are needed, here. > Exception: Where portable switchboard equipment is specifically > constructed and identified to be internally converted in the field, in an > approved manner, from use with a balanced 3-phase, 4-wire with ground > supply to a balanced single-phase, 3-wire with ground supply, the supply > neutral terminal and its associated busbar, equivalent wiring, or both, > shall have an ampacity equal to at least that of the largest ungrounded > single-phase supply terminal. Read the exception (which is part of the Code). If a 3-phase, 4-wire portable switchboard is brought into a venue that only has single-phase, 3-wire, and the switchboard is not convertible to a single-phase, 3-wire configuration, the switchboard will be fed in an unbalanced manner. L1 connecting to A, L2 connecting to B, and L1 again connecting to C. Therefore, if you have a 100 amp 3-phase, 4-wire switchboard and a 200 amp single-phase, 3-wire disconnect, your neutral could be subject to a 200 amp current if phase B is not running - i.e., your cue doesn't have any lights up on phase B. . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mitch Hefter mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com Member NEC Panel 15 Office: Entertainment Technology / a Division of the Genlyte Group mhefter [at] genlyte.com ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <13d.c4e0e3e.2f36aea2 [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 18:20:02 EST Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals In a message dated 05/02/05 09:40:50 GMT Standard Time, murr [at] vnet.net writes: > If you have to double the neutral in a three phase stage lighting > system, you'd be using one and two-thirds full sized conductors > per hot leg. Does the neutral have to be larger than the hot > legs in a 240V single phase system? If not, a 240V single phase > system would provide one hot leg for every one and a half full > sized conductors. For a given amount of total power, the 240V > single phase option uses significantly less copper. Why use > three phase at all for stage lighting? At a casual glance, a > three phase service doesn't seem to have any advantage for stage > lighting. Perhaps not, but it does have advantages for the site as a whole, and for the power supply company. The latter distributes three-phase, and tries to keep the loads reasonably balanced. Since the stage lighting load is likely to be the largest, it makes sense to split it across the three phases. Your points about 1 1/2 and 1 2/3 size conductors is not at all clear. All five conductors (three hot legs, neutral, and earth) in a three-phase star system need to be the same size, conforming to the current rating of the protection. I suspect that you are thinking of the US centre-tapped supplies, where you have 240V symmetrical about an earthed neutral. Clarification would be in order. Not everybody does it that way. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050205232727.23728.qmail [at] web52007.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 15:27:27 -0800 (PST) From: Jacqueline Haney Kidwell Subject: Re: Censorship In-Reply-To: --- Dawn Ashley wrote: > > I'm writing a research paper on censorship in the > theatre (all around the world, any time)... My experience is with community theatre, so I don't know whether it will be relevant to your research, but here it is anyway... Self-censorship is also a factor. I work with several different groups here in western Massachusetts. One organization is officially an arm of the local Woman's Club--and won't even contemplate thinking of considering anything remotely controversial (including dressing female tenors as men). The group that does the largest, most elaborate productions is affiliated with the town government in Amherst (AKA The People's Republic of Amherst), where Political Correctness is often taken to ridiculous extremes. When the local self-appointed Native American expert fussed about the Indians in 'Peter Pan' (not just the ug-a-wug lines, but the fact that "the indigenous peoples did not HAVE princesses"), we changed them to Spriggans. No protests--the Celtic wood-sprite community is not as well organized. A few years later the local high school was prevented from producing 'West Side Story', by a local group's assertion that it portrayed the Puerto Ricans in a negative light. Perhaps things are changing, some. Last year a group of students produced 'The Vagina Monologues'. Naturally it raised a storm of protest, but since it was not actually being put on BY the school, but by a independent group who happened to be students, it was allowed to go on, of course to sell-out crowds. Jacqueline Haney Kidwell __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <148.3da812e3.2f36b13f [at] aol.com> Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 18:31:11 EST Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals In a message dated 05/02/05 16:53:56 GMT Standard Time, gregpersin [at] comcast.net writes: > > 520.53(O)(1) refers to connections inside the dimmer rack. 520.53(O)(2) is > > where the 130% requirement is. It says that the neutral shall be > considered a > > current carrying conductor (this refers all the way back to the service > > equipment). It also says when single conductor feeder cables are used and > they > > are not installed in raceways (NEC speak for conduit and the like), the > > neutral shall have an ampacity of 130% of the ungrounded conductors. I should like to see real engineering figures to prove this. I have the spreadsheet, and when my current show is out of my hair, I shall study it. But I am baffled by the installation in raceways bit. In the UK, cable ratings are downgraded when so installed, because of the inferior heat dissipation. > > Thanks for the clarifications. The wording here is a bit misleading as it > sounds to me as the total ampacity of all conductors. > > The neutral having an ampacity of 130% of the largest ungrounded conductor > makes much more sense all the way around. > > So is the neutral in the conduit not a concern because of its larger cable > size due to de-rating? > > Just trying to get my head around this. Me too! Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 18:51:22 EST Subject: Re: Proper sizing of neutrals In a message dated 05/02/05 22:57:57 GMT Standard Time, mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com writes: > Read the exception (which is part of the Code). If a 3-phase, 4-wire > portable switchboard is brought into a venue that only has single-phase, > 3-wire, and the switchboard is not convertible to a single-phase, 3-wire > configuration, the switchboard will be fed in an unbalanced manner. L1 > connecting to A, L2 connecting to B, and L1 again connecting to > C. Therefore, if you have a 100 amp 3-phase, 4-wire switchboard and a 200 > amp single-phase, 3-wire disconnect, your neutral could be subject to a 200 > amp current if phase B is not running - i.e., your cue doesn't have any > lights up on phase B. This is plain, straightforward, bad engineering. End of story. I shouldn't do it, you wouldn't do it, at least, I hope not. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <01ef01c50c02$49e06dc0$0400a8c0 [at] ALFOFFICE> Reply-To: "Alf Sauve" From: "Alf Sauve" References: Subject: Re: piano tuning Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 23:03:36 -0500 Fred, Thanks for the insight into how you "manage" your piano. Far more than most of do. So Brendel brings in his own tuner. That's one way to handle it. TONY: The riders at TheSmokingGun.com only deal with catering, security and comfort issues. No technical performance related stuff(at least in the dozen or so I read). Maybe those are in the body of the contract? We've beat this to death. Thanks. I'll go back to my regular job. Alf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Fisher" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 11:12 AM Subject: Re: piano tuning > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > We have "name" pianists come through here all the time. Their > requirements vary quite a bit. Alfred Brendel will be here in April and > he requires the producer fly his own tuner from Steinway in NYC. Our > tuner is also here when the other guy is. We have a very good Steinway D > with a Hamburg action and ours is tuned before every rehearsal and often, > but not always touched up before a performance, sometimes touched up > again at intermission. If our piano is not used for a month, the tuner > comes in and gives it a touch up tuning. When having to change from a 440 > C to 444 C, he does it in two steps over a couple of days and takes a > couple of days to take it back to 440. We keep the piano in an insulated > box with a humidifier and dehumidifier in it and it stays pretty constant > at 70 degrees and 40% humidity. We bring it out on stage the day before > it's used to acclimate to current conditions. Most guest pianists > practice day of concert for three to four hours. The tuner tunes before > they come in and usually checks back with them after the artist has > practiced. When the piano was purchased, about 11 years ago, our tuner, a > couple of faculty members from the school of music and our director went > to the Steinway showroom in NYC and tried several pianos before deciding > on one they felt would sound good in our space. Our tuner installed the > Hamburg action about six years later. Emmanuel Ax loves our piano and has > even come over to practice on ours before playing at another venue in > town. We've had many of the top pianists here, both classical soloists > and accompanyists , jazz, and 99% have been very happy with our > instrument. FYI, Midori carries a custom sized stick with her which is > about halfway between low stick (or the coat rack for some pianists) and > high stick so the piano doesn't loom too large behind her. For the most > part, the very famous pianists are not hard to work with. I've had a less > pleasant time with local pianists whose ego outstrips their talent. Oh > yes, we also put a 1927 Steinway upright in a dressing room so the > pianists can keep their fingers warm during 1/2 hour and intermission. > That piano is untunable, but they understand and still use it. One of the > percs of my job is listening to the artists practice while sitting in my > office off stage. It's like a private concert. Finally, we ask the > artist to autograph the harp after the concert. They are happy to do that > and usually comment on their friends who have also played the piano. > Fred Fisher > > > At 08:24 PM 2/4/2005 -0600, you wrote: >>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >>--------------------------------------------------- >> >> >>From: "Alf Sauve" wrote: >> >> > Question still stands. Who has first hand knowledge of the rider for >> > some >> > of the bigger names? In regards to piano tuning? >> > >> > Interested to see how they spec it out. >> > >> > Alf >> >>I just tossed my copy of the Michael Feinstein rider. (I consider him a >>big >>name, but heck, I'm in Omaha) I would be happy to find a copy and mail or >>fax it to you. It was very specific on many points including; "Tuner must >>speak English and be sober." Let me know if you are interested. >> >>John Gibilisco >>Omaha Community Playhouse > > - ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42059E19.86C4093 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:33:29 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: You know it's going to be a bad show day when.... The other truck is late, the driver just called. He's only a block away, but he's going to be delayed. He rear-ended a police car. A parked police car. In front of the police station. --Dale What is your bad day at the show story? Please, only things you personally experienced. ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: You know it's going to be a bad show day when.... Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 20:38:02 -0800 Message-ID: <006901c50c05$a51e18b0$8d90fea9 [at] DrDoomsComputer> In-reply-to: In the middle of a major production, with 1500 people in attendance, all the power went out, and there was no emergency power. One hour of darkness. Doom Maybe not the worst, but close. Ah, another one, a crew member tried to commit suicide in the middle of a production ... traumatic to say the least. -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Dale Farmer Sent: Saturday, February 05, 2005 8:33 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: You know it's going to be a bad show day when.... For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- The other truck is late, the driver just called. He's only a block away, but he's going to be delayed. He rear-ended a police car. A parked police car. In front of the police station. --Dale What is your bad day at the show story? Please, only things you personally experienced. ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #286 *****************************