Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.6) with PIPE id 19984600; Mon, 28 Feb 2005 03:02:28 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.6 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #310 Date: Mon, 28 Feb 2005 03:02:02 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on prxy.net X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.4 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00, US_DOLLARS_3 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #310 1. Re: Stage Pin vs. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com 2. Re: Stage Pin vs. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) by IAEG [at] aol.com 3. Re: Stage Pin vs. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) by "Delbert Hall" 4. Re: Stage Pin vs. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) by IAEG [at] aol.com 5. Re: Raked Stage Covering by Chris Fretts 6. Re: Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces by Paul Toben 7. Re: Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) by Paul Toben 8. Pigail vs. panel mount (was Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces ) by "Bll Conner" 9. Toronto TTC by Jerry Durand 10. Re: raceway with/without pigtails by "Riter, Andrew (Head Ltg)" 11. Re: Pigail vs. panel mount (was Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces ) by IAEG [at] aol.com 12. Re: Toronto TTC by "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" 13. Re: Toronto TTC by IAEG [at] aol.com 14. Re: Toronto TTC - airport bus info by "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" 15. Re: Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces (was Re: Bad! Bad, Electrician! ... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 16. Re: Toronto TTC - airport bus info by Jerry Durand 17. Re: Designer/Stage Manager Relationship by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 18. Re: cell phone on stage? by Greg Williams 19. Re: Stage Pin vs. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 20. Re: Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces (was Re: Bad! Bad, Electrician! ... by Stuart Wheaton 21. Panels or pigtails... by Stuart Wheaton 22. Re: Workbox Decorations and Politics by CB 23. Speling erorrs by CB 24. Re: Speling erorrs by Pat Kight 25. Re: Designer/Stage Manager Relationship by CB 26. They are still using it! by Stuart Wheaton 27. Re: Designer/Stage Manager Relationship by Dale Farmer 28. Re: Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces by Mitch Hefter 29. Re: OT Inspector Advice by Mitch Hefter 30. Re: Toronto TTC - airport bus info by "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" 31. Re: OT Inspector Advice by "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" 32. Re: Flush mount or pigtail by Jeff Forbes 33. Re: Toronto TTC - airport bus info by Jerry Durand 34. Re: OT Inspector Advice by "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" 35. Re: Stage Pin v. Twist by "Tom Heemskerk" 36. Re: Stage Pin v. Twist by IAEG [at] aol.com 37. Re: Stage Pin v. Twist by David Marks 38. Re: Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces (was Re: Bad! Bad, Electrician! ... by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 39. Re: Stage Pin vs. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) by Mike Brubaker 40. Twist in Educational Spaces by "Steve B." 41. Stage Pin v. Twist by "Steve B." 42. Re: Flush mount or pigtail by Dale Farmer 43. Re: Flush mount or pigtail by "Jon Ares" 44. Re: Flush mount or pigtail by Dale Farmer 45. Finding Parts / Touring Question by "Robert D. Ingram" 46. Re: Stage Manager/Designer Relationship by June Abernathy 47. Re: Finding Parts / Touring Question by David Marks 48. Re: Designer/Stage Manager Relationship by "Joshua Webb" 49. Re: Designer/Stage Manager Relationship by "Ronnie Thevenot" 50. Show Call Duration? by Brad Pattison *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1e2.366d345d.2f5323fb [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 08:24:11 EST Subject: Re: Stage Pin vs. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) Greg persinger writes: >Since stage pin are generally unknown in the typical electricians and >electrical engineers world, this plug would not even be considered as an >option. Even after you specify the connectors you want, watch the bids and the installation like a hawk. I was once involved with a new college fine arts center in a small Midwestern town. I carefully specified that Pin Connectors were required for all stage lighting circuits. When told by the Architect and his consulting Engineers that twist-loc were better, I clarified that ALL the existing college inventory and other venues were pin connectors and the rental stock out of Chicago was pin connector. The dimming system and raceways were supplied by a theatrical manufacturer as specified with pin connectors. The install was performed by the electrical subcontractor. The contractor made all of the floor and wall pockets twistlock. And, because it was more convenient for the crew, installed half of the raceways BACKWARDS. Thus, the circuit numbering went from 1-20 on house left to center and then continued from center to house right from 40 to 21. Same thing with the onstage electrics. Very frustrating when people are ignorant of our specialty and do not want to listen. SteveV Orl, FL ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1ea.3771c22b.2f532694 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 08:35:16 EST Subject: Re: Stage Pin vs. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) In a message dated 2/27/05 8:25:04 AM, StevevETTrn [at] aol.com writes: << The contractor made all of the floor and wall pockets twistlock. And, because it was more convenient for the crew, installed half of the raceways BACKWARDS. Thus, the circuit numbering went from 1-20 on house left to center and then continued from center to house right from 40 to 21. Same thing with the onstage electrics. Very frustrating when people are ignorant of our specialty and do not want to listen. >> hope ya made them go back and fix it! I opened a new theatre complex once, in spite of our protestations theatre tech staff wasn't allowed anywhere near it until after the building was accepted, how ignorant ( or can you say "corrupt" ? ) was that? A number of Fresnels and Ellipsodials were hung by the contractor from the grid in the black box when we first went in the space. We started firing up dimmers and circuits to see what worked and noticed that the instruments looked a bit wierd, thought at first "gee for new instruments, we are going to have to take them down and do a bench focus right away, especially the fresnels" turns out since both the Fresnels and Ellipsodials were medium pre-focus bases, the electrical contracting crew had just lamped things up willy nilly, , within 10 minutes lamps were popping and buring out due to the mis allingment of Ellipsodial lamps in Fresnels, , and vice versa, it was a wonderful day, , , Oh, , it won't surprise you to hear that this was the same venue I ranted about 8 - 10 months ago about and some of you wanted me to name names of architects etc because of the ridiculous faux pas's. Delbert has been to this space and is familiar with it "unusual features" as well , Oh I am being so kind ! very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Delbert Hall" Subject: Re: Stage Pin vs. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:04:54 -0500 Keith - you are certainly being kind. This place was a mess. The rigging was even worse than the electrical stuff. To add insultt on top of injury, the architect won an award for the design. There is no justice in the world. -Delbert Delbert L. Hall 423-773-HALL (4255) > >I opened a new theatre complex once, in spite of our protestations theatre >tech staff wasn't allowed anywhere near it until after the building was >accepted, how ignorant ( or can you say "corrupt" ? ) was that? > >A number of Fresnels and Ellipsodials were hung by the contractor from the >grid in the black box when we first went in the space. We started firing >up >dimmers and circuits to see what worked and noticed that the instruments >looked a >bit wierd, thought at first "gee for new instruments, we are going to have >to >take them down and do a bench focus right away, especially the fresnels" > >turns out since both the Fresnels and Ellipsodials were medium pre-focus >bases, the electrical contracting crew had just lamped things up willy >nilly, , >within 10 minutes lamps were popping and buring out due to the mis >allingment >of Ellipsodial lamps in Fresnels, , and vice versa, > >it was a wonderful day, , , > >Oh, , it won't surprise you to hear that this was the same venue I ranted >about 8 - 10 months ago about and some of you wanted me to name names of >architects etc because of the ridiculous faux pas's. Delbert has been to >this space >and is familiar with it "unusual features" as well , Oh I am being so >kind ! > >very best, > >Keith Arsenault > >IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group >Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <42.63de46f4.2f53340a [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:32:42 EST Subject: Re: Stage Pin vs. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) In a message dated 2/27/05 9:05:38 AM, flyingfx [at] hotmail.com writes: << Keith - you are certainly being kind. This place was a mess. The rigging was even worse than the electrical stuff. To add insultt on top of injury, the architect won an award for the design. There is no justice in the world. -Delbert Delbert L. Hall 423-773-HALL (4255) >> it really is a shame, , this is such a "bastard" building, , no one (with authority) during the process said STOP, , no one. Some of you will remember from USITT Herb Schmoll, Herb and I ( along with the late Donald Shulman ) all went to the board responsible for building this edifice and were quite frankly told that they really didn't care to hear from anyone (Herb and I had both designed for this institution) they were quite satisfied with their architects. Even the theatre dept was allowed only minimal input. This was all back in the early 70's, literally a generation ago, but the building still burdens the tax payers as well as those doomed to use it. To this day I suspect there were "off the books" financial considerations with this building. It would be in a grand historic Tampa tradition. This is the home of Santos Trafficante, , and back in the 20's US Marines and The Tampa Police faught a battle with machine guns over election supervision and voting fraud. During WW II when there were three Army Air Bases here, Ybor City was full of illegal casino gambling and blatant prostitution. I've spoken with WWII Vets who were stationed here, for those of you who have been here, you think Ybor City on a Saturday night is wild now ? Tame compared to those days! Next time any of you see me in person, ask me about how the local numbers racket (Bolita) gave the winning numbers out ever Friday night on live television for 20 years. Ah, , reminising about the "good old days" ! FYI, , our former City Housing Director was just sentenced to 5 years. He had just built a brand new $2,000,000.00 home on his $ 80,000.00 a year salaray. Nothing suspicious there ! c'est l'vie c'est l'guerre c'est l'merde' ( please excuse my bad french ) very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: Chris Fretts Subject: RE: Raked Stage Covering Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 10:20:18 -0500 -Rob Carovillano wrote - "Ok, another question about the rake im working on. I want to cover the rake with some type of large material to hide the seams of the 24 4x8 platforms we are using." Rob, I have used cheap linoleum or vinyl flooring several times to create large seamless painted showfloors. I have found appropriate vinyl flooring up to 16' wide. The material is laid good side down, at least as far as the rest of the world is concerned. I attach the flooring to the stage surface with double stick carpet tape around the perimeter. The back side of the flooring is a paper-like surface that accepts paint very well. It can be painted either before or after it is laid. If it is painted after it has been attached, I do find that the floor tends to bubble up due to the different expansion rates of the vinyl surface and the backing but that settles down as the paint drys so don't be alarmed. The surface is pretty durable though I don't think I'd want to use it for a big musical or show with lots of rolling wagons. The most important thing to remember is that you want to find a floor that has either no pattern or a random pattern embossed into its surface. If you pick a floor that has a tile pattern, that pattern will show through to the back side as the material sits on your stage and mean old Mr. Gravity takes it toll. Chris Fretts Technical Director Indiana Repertory Theatre ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <6494b890ac421d9c970f8924b4498a7d [at] tufts.edu> From: Paul Toben Subject: Re: Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:49:15 -0500 Noah, I went to high school in the Bay Area and our space was all 2P&G. Fortunate that it was, in fact, because we were able to easily augment the number of dimmers in the space by picking up a pair of old road-racks of dimmers. I want to say that the space opened in '89 or '90 and it was a Musson install. You might try calling Musson on Monday and asking them. I know they do a lot of high school spaces and if you tell them why you need to know (to maintain compatibility with *their* rental stock) I'm sure they'll be happy to help. ~Paul On Feb 27, 2005, at 6:01 AM, Stagecraft wrote: > Very timely... I'm designing the lighting portion of a theater > renovation for a school (a private K-12, or so), and just ran into > this. Is it true? Do I need to stick with twist lock in a school > space? ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <8c95f500367e64237653d736413dc837 [at] tufts.edu> From: Paul Toben Subject: Re: Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:56:09 -0500 Tails! I have been in spaces that are so well-designed that one can circuit most (if not all) of the catwalk instruments without a single lick of cable. If you can't get pigtails, at least be sure that the raceway is close enough to the hang position that the tail of the instrument will plug into the raceway flushmount without a jumper. ~Paul On Feb 27, 2005, at 6:01 AM, Stagecraft wrote: > In a raceway of stagepin lighting circuits along a catwalk... Would > you rather > have receptacles built into the raceway, or have pigtails with female > plug > receptacles coming out of the raceway? Pros and cons either way? ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000b01c51cf5$74339530$b56414ac [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bll Conner" From: "Bll Conner" Subject: Pigail vs. panel mount (was Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces ) Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:54:58 -0600 Interesting discussions. I generally specify pigtails on catwalks and usually mount the connector strip at around 6' with 6' pigtails and two pipes for hanging lights. The 6' tails give a lot of maneuverability. I consider it less maintenance since a panel mount and jumper requires 3 connectors and the pigtail just 1. Circuit numbers on the receptacles are very helpful. I don't quite understand the brushing and wear issues but I learned long ago that 48" or wider catwalks cost very little more than minimum width and make life easier. Fixed stage electrics are a different issue but more often than not I use 36" pigtails. I've never heard of stage pin plugs not being acceptable in any facility: elementary, junior high, or high school. ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050227095127.040fa568 [at] localhost> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:56:43 -0800 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Toronto TTC Trying to figure out how to get a Toronto TTC Weekly Pass (I think that's what we need to get around). It seems that you have to pay cash Canadian to take a bus from the airport to a subway station to buy the pass to get on the bus/subway. It also seems there's no bus/subway stop at the convention center, you have to walk through the PATH to get there from the nearest stop (like the Union subway station). Since this doesn't sound right, would someone in the know enlighten me? When we went to London we were able to advance order a weekly transit pass and they mailed it to us in the USA. That was very nice to have in hand at the airport. ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <297C9E3B63B2D3119C8100508B5ED28F1602004D [at] exchange2.ubc.ca> From: "Riter, Andrew (Head Ltg)" Subject: RE: raceway with/without pigtails Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 09:58:19 -0800 I would support the raceway without pigtails, IF the raceway is sitting on (and secured) to the catwalk floor. Kicking pigtails as you walk along the catwalk would get boring really fast. I would argue that the electrical supply (whether pigtail or no) should be at the place easiest to reach when the lamp is hung in its normal place. If the raceway is headheight, you might as well have pigtails installed, since you'll need extensions to reach the lamps hanging from the middle railing of the catwalk. Same argument for where the socket on the flushmount is located (on top, side, or underneath). What makes most sense for plugging in the lamp? I'm used to TLG, so the holes are smaller, and less likely to fill with gunk, if the flushmounts are facing up. Andrew M. Riter Head Lighting Technician Chan Centre ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <191.39e75d7d.2f5364c1 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:00:33 EST Subject: Re: Pigail vs. panel mount (was Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces ) In a message dated 2/27/05 12:54:13 PM, bill-conner [at] att.net writes: << Fixed stage electrics are a different issue but more often than not I use 36" pigtails. I've never heard of stage pin plugs not being acceptable in any facility: elementary, junior high, or high school. >> i had mentioned this once before, but I don't think there was a response to it, , but aren't TWIST LOC 's code in Canada ? and Stage Pin being phased out ? come on there must be someone north of the border who can address this ? very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ From: "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" Subject: RE: Toronto TTC Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:30:09 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20050227183010.ZILD1567.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net [at] p3m866> Alas, the Toronto transit system is not London's. A better bet is to take the Airport Bus downtown, it stops at a number of hotels. Even if you're not at one of those hotels, you're probably near one. The convention centre has a hotel connected with it, so the bus will go there. I haven't bought a ticket for the Airport Bus for a while, but it's somewhere around $10 - $12CDN. The TTC weekly pass is a new thing (I've not even seen one yet) and it's not a great deal at $42. A single ride is $2.25, so you'd have to ride more than 18 times for it to be worth it. It's possible you'd do this in a week, but I never would. If you don't mind a bit of walking, you might be able to get away without using the TTC at all (but I don't know where you're staying). Cabs in Toronto are a bit pricey but not outrageous, with short trips often coming in at $8 - $10; going any significant distance often approaches $20. For that kind of travelling, the TTC is the way to go, particularly if you're using the subway lines. Remember that a $1.00CDN only costs you $0.80US. Jim Smith www.theatrewireless.com (I live in Toronto) > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf > Of Jerry Durand > Sent: February 27, 2005 12:57 PM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Toronto TTC > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Trying to figure out how to get a Toronto TTC Weekly Pass (I > think that's what we need to get around). It seems that you > have to pay cash Canadian to take a bus from the airport to a > subway station to buy the pass to get on the bus/subway. It > also seems there's no bus/subway stop at the convention > center, you have to walk through the PATH to get there from > the nearest stop (like the Union subway station). > > Since this doesn't sound right, would someone in the know > enlighten me? > > When we went to London we were able to advance order a weekly > transit pass and they mailed it to us in the USA. That was > very nice to have in hand at the airport. > > ---------- > Jerry Durand > Durand Interstellar, Inc. > 219 Oak Wood Way > Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA > tel: +1 408 356-3886 > fax: +1 408 356-4659 > web: www.interstellar.com > > > > > ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <89.21a40f64.2f536c5d [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:33:01 EST Subject: Re: Toronto TTC In a message dated 2/27/05 1:31:28 PM, jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com writes: << Remember that a $1.00CDN only costs you $0.80US. >> oh how I long for the days when it was only $ 0.65 !!!! very best, Keith Arsenault (Great Grandfather a MP from Prince Edward Island) ------------------------------ From: "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" Subject: RE: Toronto TTC - airport bus info Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:33:28 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20050227183329.VZFW2034.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net [at] p3m866> Toronto Airport Bus info: http://www.torontoairportexpress.com/. The price is a little higher than I thought, $15.50 1way, $26.75 return. Still a good way to go. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf > Of Jerry Durand > Sent: February 27, 2005 12:57 PM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Toronto TTC > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Trying to figure out how to get a Toronto TTC Weekly Pass (I > think that's what we need to get around). It seems that you > have to pay cash Canadian to take a bus from the airport to a > subway station to buy the pass to get on the bus/subway. It > also seems there's no bus/subway stop at the convention > center, you have to walk through the PATH to get there from > the nearest stop (like the Union subway station). > > Since this doesn't sound right, would someone in the know > enlighten me? > > When we went to London we were able to advance order a weekly > transit pass and they mailed it to us in the USA. That was > very nice to have in hand at the airport. > > ---------- > Jerry Durand > Durand Interstellar, Inc. > 219 Oak Wood Way > Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA > tel: +1 408 356-3886 > fax: +1 408 356-4659 > web: www.interstellar.com > > > > > ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:51:02 EST Subject: Re: Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces (was Re: Bad! Bad, Electrician! ... In a message dated 27/02/05 03:25:13 GMT Standard Time, mbenonis_lists [at] mac.com writes: > We also have stage pin connectors in both our main stage and our black box. > We've had no issues with them, other than the inability to plug fixtures in > in other parts of the building (which was remedied with a number of stage > pin to Edison cables that were made for us). Our school is in its fifth > year of operation, btw. You always have this problem when there are different styles of connector around. Our domestic outlets are 13A, to BS1363, and the plugs have an internal fuse, according to the equipment load. You can't do this for stage lighting equipment, so this uses the older BS655 15A connectors. UK custom also uses very flat connectors, with the pins perpendicular to the body of the plug. A mated pair are about 2" thick, and with panel-mounted sockets, the surface projection is only about 1". Both sorts, when properly fitted, have efficient cable grips, holding the outer sleeve of the cable. It is not possible to disengage the plug by pulling on the cable. Indeed, at about 170lb, I could probebly swing off on one. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050227105003.041578d0 [at] localhost> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 10:54:17 -0800 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Toronto TTC - airport bus info In-Reply-To: References:

At 10:33 AM 2/27/2005, you wrote: >Toronto Airport Bus info: http://www.torontoairportexpress.com/. The price >is a little higher than I thought, $15.50 1way, $26.75 return. Still a good >way to go. > >Jim Unfortunately, that doesn't look like it stops close to our hotel. We're staying in the same hotel with another company to hitch rides with them to the convention center, so we didn't choose the location. We're staying here: http://www.dayshoteltoronto.ca/ I sent them an e-mail asking about an airport shuttle service (their corporate site says they have one, the hotel site doesn't). ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <8a.219bff75.2f537269 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:58:49 EST Subject: Re: Designer/Stage Manager Relationship In a message dated 27/02/05 05:11:24 GMT Standard Time, jea00321 [at] yahoo.com writes: > The SM is the one > who is paying attention to the fact that you have 15 > chorus dancers needing a quick change at the same time > that you must do a huge set change that will involve > moving wagons on and off into the wings. Catching this > early means that you can figure out BEFORE technical > rehearsals how to get both things done without running > over dancers or stopping a scene change cold, or > whatever. This is fine. Except, how do you know about the huge set change until the director and designer have done their bit? Once the show concept and set design are firm, by all means do this. You will need all the organisational help you can get. Before then, you are just beating the air. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 08:39:15 -0500 Subject: Re: cell phone on stage? From: Greg Williams In-Reply-To: Message-Id: On Wednesday, February 23, 2005, at 07:57 PM, jknipple wrote: > We're in a black box, in the round, on a turntable. How about an In-Ear Monitor pack which has been made up to look like a cell phone? Although the pack itself is a bit wider than the current slim-lines, the basic shape will suffice. Cue the sound effect, the tiny speaker you've plugged into the jack rings, and it even comes with an antenna. Although I have not used this for a cell phone, I've used my Shure PSM series several times successfully when the sound had to come from a wireless radio or other spot where wires just wouldn't do... -=Greg Williams=- Production Manager Valborg Theatre Appalachian State University ------We're at it again!!!------ Check out the Long Reach Long Riders cross country fund raiser for BC/EFA at http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1e8.35e3eb06.2f537692 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:16:34 EST Subject: Re: Stage Pin vs. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) In a message dated 27/02/05 07:17:46 GMT Standard Time, gregpersin [at] comcast.net writes: > Because of this the question to ask is not "can we use stage pin plugs or > do we have to use twist lock", but instead "I have a potential project in > your area (I try never to give the project name or location this way you > stay under the radar and don't tip off the AHJ that you aren't a local. > Sometimes it doesn't matter, sometimes it does. Maybe it's a Southern > thing.) and was looking to get some information on your local electrical > codes. Have you adopted the National Electrical Code as your code > regulations for your area? If so what issuing year. If not how can I get a > copy of your codes. Are there any addendums to the NEC for your county and > state? If so how do I get a copy?" I have to say that I think your US electrical codes are really, really zany. Each state, each county, may set its own rules, and probably without sound engineering advice. The UK has gone down a different road. The IEE regulations apply everywhere, and they were written by engineers. But, they are only advisory, and have no legal force. It would be a bold man, and a good engineer, who ignored them. But, if you could justify what you had done (and there's a feast for lawyers and expert witnesses), you would not be liable. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <422226E0.8020000 [at] fuse.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:00:32 -0500 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces (was Re: Bad! Bad, Electrician! ... References: In-Reply-To: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > You always have this problem when there are different styles of connector > around. Our domestic outlets are 13A, to BS1363, and the plugs have an internal > fuse, according to the equipment load. You can't do this for stage lighting > equipment, so this uses the older BS655 15A connectors. > > UK custom also uses very flat connectors, with the pins perpendicular to the > body of the plug. A mated pair are about 2" thick, and with panel-mounted > sockets, the surface projection is only about 1". Both sorts, when properly > fitted, have efficient cable grips, holding the outer sleeve of the cable. It is not > possible to disengage the plug by pulling on the cable. Indeed, at about > 170lb, I could probebly swing off on one. You are right, Frank, your way really is the best way. All US and Canadian theatres will immediately scrap millions of dollars of installed connectors and re-fit them with a connector that will require extensive redesign of mountings, not carry sufficient current for our uses and is generally un-available here. Brilliant idea, thanks for being so tenacious. Your grasp of the situation in toto, and your reasonable attitudes go so far towards solving this vexing problem. PS, I have seen dozens of shattered euro plugs and sockets, and if you want to send a photo of you hanging from one, I'll believe it, otherwise your claim is pure BS. Stuart ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42222A93.2020109 [at] fuse.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 15:16:19 -0500 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Panels or pigtails... References:

In-Reply-To: jdeull [at] clarktransfer.com wrote: > "Having loose cables waving from a power source is another question: a dangling > plug is not." > > Jumping off onto a tangent from there... > > In a raceway of stagepin lighting circuits along a catwalk... Would you rather > have receptacles built into the raceway, or have pigtails with female plug > receptacles coming out of the raceway? Pros and cons either way? > > Jonathan Deull > Edmund Burke School Definitely pigtails! Provide a pipe in easy reach so the pigtails can be tied securely to pervent strain on the raceway. Properly strain relief the pigtail at the raceway. Label the connector on each pigtail. If there is a problem and a pigtail end gets damaged by arcing or gets crushed and shattered, then you simply kill the breaker or pull the dimmer module and replace the end. If you damage a panel mount by arcing or banging into the plug and breaking the plastic housing, you have to kill the whole raceway, and take out lots of small screws, and handle the cover without pulling out wires in other outlets, and hope you can find a spare panel mount in stock, a spare pigtail can come from any cable you own. Stuart ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050227135729.016e7f28 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:57:29 From: CB Subject: Re: Workbox Decorations and Politics >If only the lid wouldn't keep falling off after opening it, though. Wish it >had a captive hinge. Sounds like a 'my first weld' opportunity... And be careful, I am very likely to pick up and adopt anything with my indian name on it. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050227140456.016e7f28 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:04:56 From: CB Subject: Speling erorrs >I don'w think >The undpoken truth >trafic noises >disgn >senxe of humor Yesterday I cut the tip of my finger off because I couldn't find a cutting board. These and other errors like it will occuruntil I can type with that finger again. My spell checker is more trouble than its worth, so you get my apologies up front (sort of). I'll try to pay more attention... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4222350C.2030702 [at] peak.org> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 13:01:00 -0800 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: Speling erorrs References: In-Reply-To: CB wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > >>I don'w think >>The undpoken truth >>trafic noises >>disgn >>senxe of humor > > > Yesterday I cut the tip of my finger off because I couldn't find a cutting > board. These and other errors like it will occuruntil I can type with that > finger again. My spell checker is more trouble than its worth, so you get > my apologies up front (sort of). I'll try to pay more attention... Ouch! Remember, folks, the kitchen can be just as dangerous as the scene shop ... -- Pat Kight kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050227141236.016e7f28 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:12:36 From: CB Subject: Re: Designer/Stage Manager Relationship >What then happens is up to the LD, and the SD. And. of course the >Director. Archaic? Hmmmm..... you keep using that word. I'm not sure it means what you think it means. Usually, in real theatre, the director, the SD, and the LD are gone soon after opening night (we all hope, anyways). They give the concept and design of the run of the show to the SM to maintain that integrity once they have moved on. I realize that you tend to design, operate, and even build and maintain the lights in your venue, and are more often thatn not the only one that does it in your venue, but you needs must realize that you are part of a very small minority that does it that way, and most of the people that I have worked with and discussed this with have the SM call the cuesmand the operators follow them. If I were to design and run, in one space, show after show, I think that I may also run the show on my own clock. Other than that, I think that I would do it in a traditionally accepted, 'industry standard' way. The inclusion of the phrase, "with Frank as the obvious exception, of course" was intended as a nod to the way that you do things. There is no need to insult the time honored, tested and true methods that we use just because you have the luxury of never having to deal with new venues, local crews, situations, and operators. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42223B3B.1070800 [at] fuse.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:27:23 -0500 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: They are still using it! The Girl Scouts cookies thin mints box still has the picture of the girl in the ill-fitting harness hanging from a knotted rope with a poorly fitted thimble. Does anybody on this list have a connection to make them stop? Stuart ------------------------------ Message-ID: <422243A4.2613BD37 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 17:03:16 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: Designer/Stage Manager Relationship References: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 27/02/05 05:11:24 GMT Standard Time, jea00321 [at] yahoo.com > writes: > > > The SM is the one > > who is paying attention to the fact that you have 15 > > chorus dancers needing a quick change at the same time > > that you must do a huge set change that will involve > > moving wagons on and off into the wings. Catching this > > early means that you can figure out BEFORE technical > > rehearsals how to get both things done without running > > over dancers or stopping a scene change cold, or > > whatever. > > This is fine. Except, how do you know about the huge set change until the > director and designer have done their bit? > > Once the show concept and set design are firm, by all means do this. You will > need all the organisational help you can get. Before then, you are just > beating the air. > > Frank Wood Collaboration. Look it up. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20050227160503.0207c3d8 [at] mail.DesignRelief.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:27:17 -0600 From: Mitch Hefter Subject: Re: Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces In-Reply-To: References: Anecdotal information (I've been working for various manufacturers for the past 26 years). Twist Lock is more prevalent in primary and secondary educational institutions, with Stage Pin dominant in university and public spaces (e.g., concert halls and performing arts centers). The more "advanced" the space (i.e., there are high school systems that most universities would love to have), the more likely they will go Stage Pin. We also provide a number of straight-blade ("edison" to some), but that's probably in the 10% of projects range. TV Studios in educational institutions use twist locks at a higher rate than traditional theatre. I can't explain it, but that's my experience. There is no specific requirement in the Code (other than a listed connector and appropriate for the purpose). In fact, we made some exceptions to allow for the common practice of 60 amp stage pin connectors used on 50 amp circuits. Local jurisdictions may have different rules. As for the pigtail vs. flush debate: Entertainment Technology's distributed dimming system dimmer strip products use flush connectors, and only about once per year we are asked to provide a pigtail version. Our distributed dimming system Intelligent Raceway product is most often specified and ordered with pigtails, as are standard connector strips when we provide traditional distribution. Regards, . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mitch Hefter mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com Office: Entertainment Technology / a Division of the Genlyte Group mhefter [at] genlyte.com http://www.etdimming.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.1.0.6.2.20050227163517.0207c3d8 [at] mail.DesignRelief.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 16:35:32 -0600 From: Mitch Hefter Subject: Re: OT Inspector Advice Greg Persinger wrote: > >+++++++++ Warning off topic inspector advice++++++++++ > >Just a word of advice on dealing with electrical inspectors, > and politely educate the AHJ as to what you are >doing to meet code in your project if you are questioned. This doesn't mean >the AHJ can't make you do something stupid but it shows you have done your >homework and are trying to abide by the laws he is sworn to uphold. > Very well said. Something we emphasize repeatedly in our electrical safety workshops and NEC sessions at LDI and USITT. Thank you, . . . ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Mitch Hefter mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com Member NEC Panel 15 Office: Entertainment Technology / a Division of the Genlyte Group mhefter [at] genlyte.com ------------------------------ From: "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" Subject: RE: Toronto TTC - airport bus info Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 17:36:12 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20050227223614.YETK2034.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net [at] p3m866> Jerry, Your hotel is a 1 minute walk from the Delta Chelsea Inn, which is on the formal bus schedule. A Mapquest map of the area is here: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formtype=address&searchtype=address&cou ntry=CA&addtohistory=&address=30+Carlton+St.&city=Toronto&state=ON&zipcode= It's a short block from College (called Carlton on the east side of Yonge St.) down to Gerrard St. Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf > Of Jerry Durand > Sent: February 27, 2005 1:54 PM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Re: Toronto TTC - airport bus info > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > At 10:33 AM 2/27/2005, you wrote: > >Toronto Airport Bus info: > http://www.torontoairportexpress.com/. The > >price is a little higher than I thought, $15.50 1way, $26.75 > return. > >Still a good way to go. > > > >Jim > > Unfortunately, that doesn't look like it stops close to our > hotel. We're staying in the same hotel with another company > to hitch rides with them to the convention center, so we > didn't choose the location. We're staying > here: http://www.dayshoteltoronto.ca/ > > I sent them an e-mail asking about an airport shuttle service > (their corporate site says they have one, the hotel site doesn't). > > > ---------- > Jerry Durand > Durand Interstellar, Inc. > 219 Oak Wood Way > Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA > tel: +1 408 356-3886 > fax: +1 408 356-4659 > web: www.interstellar.com > > > > ------------------------------ From: "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" Subject: RE: OT Inspector Advice Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 17:38:58 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20050227223900.FMHE1836.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net [at] p3m866> UL (or CSA) listed components in the ac-mains section, and a design that passes a hipot test will cover most issues, at least for "special inspections". Jim > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf > Of Mitch Hefter > Sent: February 27, 2005 5:36 PM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Re: OT Inspector Advice > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > Greg Persinger wrote: > > > >+++++++++ Warning off topic inspector advice++++++++++ > > > >Just a word of advice on dealing with electrical inspectors, > > and politely educate the AHJ as to what you are > doing to meet > >code in your project if you are questioned. This doesn't > mean the AHJ > >can't make you do something stupid but it shows you have done your > >homework and are trying to abide by the laws he is sworn to uphold. > > > > Very well said. Something we emphasize repeatedly in our > electrical safety workshops and NEC sessions at LDI and USITT. > > Thank you, > > . . . > -------------------------------------------------------------- > ---------- > Mitch Hefter mitch.hefter [at] DesignRelief.com > Member NEC Panel 15 > > Office: Entertainment Technology / a Division of the Genlyte Group > mhefter [at] genlyte.com > > > > ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <916ce27691a03ea842c3b8d0f7fa0089 [at] earthlink.net> From: Jeff Forbes Subject: Re: Flush mount or pigtail Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:41:00 -0800 On Feb 27, 2005, at 3:01 AM, Stagecraft wrote: > I may be jumping into this new thread a little late, but I still must > ask: > do you have problems with instrument mobility when using flush mounted > circuits? Every time I've used one I've found myself wishing for ten > to > twenty lengths of three foot cable to make up for the missing > pigtails. Of > course, this could be due to design errors on my own part, but the job > just > seems easier with that extra pigtail on the raceway. > > Chris Nimm > I would have to agree here, that the extra length from a pigtail often means the difference between having to move the instrument or go off in search of a 3' jumper. My main experience with flush mount receptacles comes from the Portland Center for the Performing Arts, where at least two of the theaters have flush mount receptacles installed at floor level. This means they keep getting stepped on or kicked, the plastic retainer around the outside that keeps the receptacle from falling inside the raceway eventually breaks, the receptacle falls inside the raceway, and the pin from the mail plug comes in contact with the metal box of the raceway and shorts out the circuit. The electricians there spend a lot of time replacing broken receptacles. Jeff A Forbes PMB 124 6820 SE Foster Rd Portland OR 97206 (503)-888-5619 www.performanceworksnw.org ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050227144032.04407df8 [at] localhost> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:41:18 -0800 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Toronto TTC - airport bus info In-Reply-To: References:

At 02:36 PM 2/27/2005, you wrote: >Your hotel is a 1 minute walk from the Delta Chelsea Inn, which is on the >formal bus schedule. A Mapquest map of the area is here: >http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?formtype=address&searchtype=address&cou >ntry=CA&addtohistory=&address=30+Carlton+St.&city=Toronto&state=ON&zipcode= > >It's a short block from College (called Carlton on the east side of Yonge >St.) down to Gerrard St. > >Jim Thanks, that will help a lot! ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ From: "James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com" Subject: RE: OT Inspector Advice Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 17:41:27 -0500 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <20050227224128.FNBU1836.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net [at] p3m866> And a good ground connection to chassis. Or operation from a UL-listed class-2 low-voltage ac adaptor. > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf > Of James Smith, www.theatrewireless.com > Sent: February 27, 2005 5:39 PM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Re: OT Inspector Advice > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > UL (or CSA) listed components in the ac-mains section, and a > design that passes a hipot test will cover most issues, at > least for "special inspections". > > Jim ------------------------------ Message-ID: <3136.204.244.226.47.1109544739.squirrel [at] 204.244.226.47> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 14:52:19 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: Stage Pin v. Twist From: "Tom Heemskerk" > > aren't TWIST LOC 's code in Canada ? and Stage Pin being phased out ? > > come on there must be someone north of the border who can address this ? > > Yup, sort of. At least, I haven't ever found where in the BC code stage-pins are permitted... although I might have missed it somewhere amongst the 779 pages. 20Amp L5-20 Twist-locks are the norm here, if not the law. So is strong beer and affordable prescription drugs. Among the modest number of Canadian facilities I've seen, the only new-ish one which has stage-pin connectors was built around 1978... and word at that time was that there were bribes involved. Another place I worked in still had lots of "old-style" pin-out TLG connectors (presumably original equipment from the late 1960's), which were used only for worklight circuits Touring rigs that come my way typically use the L5-20 connectors for single circuits, although the occasional older rig has stage-pins. Rental equiment intended for schools and churches often has the 15A U-ground connectors. On a somewhat related note, my newest paperweight is a 90-year-old "paddle" type lighting receptacle. These are the ones whose males are a block of wood with two stripes of copper along the edges. The female appears to be made of Bakelite blocks. This came out a pocket in our fly gallery, where it was wired in and functional until the early 1980's when the autotransformer dimmers were scrapped... and it appears to have never been used. tom ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:01:26 EST Subject: Re: Stage Pin v. Twist In a message dated 2/27/05 5:53:02 PM, tommy [at] etainternet.com writes: << On a somewhat related note, my newest paperweight is a 90-year-old "paddle" type lighting receptacle. These are the ones whose males are a block of wood with two stripes of copper along the edges. The female appears to be made of Bakelite blocks. This came out a pocket in our fly gallery, where it was wired in and functional until the early 1980's when the autotransformer dimmers were scrapped... and it appears to have never been used. tom >> Canadian rental operation CHRISTIE LITES, has even their Florida based rental gear as twist loc i remember paddle plugs well from my youth, I know a number of older theatres that still have the female wall recepticles back stage ( all dead thankfully ) very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ Message-ID: <422258C7.30102 [at] att.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:33:27 -0500 From: David Marks Subject: Re: Stage Pin v. Twist References:

In-Reply-To: Tom Heemskerk wrote: > On a somewhat related note, my newest paperweight is a > 90-year-old"paddle" type lighting receptacle. These are the ones whose > males are a block of wood with two stripes of copper along the edges. > I occasionally worked in a studio where these were still in use as of 1997. Dave Marks ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <6a.50012eb6.2f53ba04 [at] aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:04:20 EST Subject: Re: Stage Pin v. Twist in Educational Spaces (was Re: Bad! Bad, Electrician! ... In a message dated 27/02/05 19:53:41 GMT Standard Time, sdwheaton [at] fuse.net writes: > You are right, Frank, your way really is the best way. Stop with the sarcasm! Yes, I think that ours is a better way. But we went down different roads back in the twenties, or whenever the standards were established. It's probably too late to back up and start over. As an engineer, I think that our ways are better than yours, but that is purely an informed opinion. What little I know about your connectors is derived from this list, and my knowledge that your current loads are about double ours. How often you pull the fully rated current through a connector, I don't know: I know that I never have. > > Your grasp of the situation in toto, and your reasonable > attitudes go so far towards solving this vexing problem. I don't know the situation 'in toto'. I grasp what gems fall out of posts. I hear that there is a problem, and offer an UK perspective on it, in case it may be of help. > > PS, I have seen dozens of shattered euro plugs and sockets, > and if you want to send a photo of you hanging from one, > I'll believe it, otherwise your claim is pure BS. This one worries me. When, where, and how? Europe is drifting towards them. Myself, I don't like them; I prefer our low profile connectors. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.0.20050227190227.057107b8 [at] mail.insightbb.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:07:37 -0500 From: Mike Brubaker Subject: Re: Stage Pin vs. Twist in Educational Spaces (OT) In-Reply-To: References: Yes, they can. But the vast majority incorporate the national electric code. By incorporating it, they do what your guidelines do not: they make it law. Adjustments in a specific jurisdiction are not uncommon. The NEC itself is revised on a three-year rotation with input from some very experienced engineers, electricians, and others with relevant experience leading the process. The NEC is hardly a zany, willy-nilly code, nor are, I would risk guessing, most of the local adjustments. Perhaps Eddie Kramer would be willing to comment in more detail; I believe that he sits on one of the NEC panels. Mike At 02:16 PM 2/27/2005, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > > copy of your codes. Are there any addendums to the NEC for your > county and > > state? If so how do I get a copy?" > >I have to say that I think your US electrical codes are really, really zany. >Each state, each county, may set its own rules, and probably without sound >engineering advice. ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 20:24:29 -0500 From: "Steve B." Subject: Twist in Educational Spaces Message-id: <002d01c51d34$402923b0$6401a8c0 [at] SBFF> References:

> I have heard that the reason for using twist lock in educational spaces > was because they are safer than stage pin. Exactly. There was a time in 60's when pin connectors were not grounded. Grounded Edison's were either non-existant or rare, while the older style tit-out TwistLoks were available as both grounded and at a 20 amp rating, thus a LOT of these devices were specified, especially in schools. Steve Bailey Brooklyn College Steve Bailey Lighting Director Brooklyn Center for the Perfoming Arts Brooklyn College 718 951-5349 P 718 951-4673 F baileyst [at] brooklyn.cuny.edu ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 20:27:29 -0500 From: "Steve B." Subject: Stage Pin v. Twist Message-id: <003b01c51d34$ab5d71e0$6401a8c0 [at] SBFF> References:

There's no reason to not specify both flush AND pigtail as needed. They both have their uses in different positions As example at out recently upgraded system. - Raceway's with 18" or 36" pigtails on our #1-2-3 Cove raceways, #1 thru #4 electric full length raceways and our USL and USR wall mount boxes (142 circuits total) . The pigtails allow for a good bit of unit movement without resorting to a jumper, eliminate connectors sticking off the side of the raceway on the overheads and eliminate traffic issues on our US wall boxes that are in a crossover. Flush mounts would not have worked on these positions. In my cove positions, the raceways are hung above the fixtures with the pigtails carefully placed to be simultaneously not in the way of hanging and focusing the fixture as well as having the pigtail right where it needs to be. I spent a LOT of time measuring and designing these raceways. I also supervised the EC in the installation to make certain they where located exactly where they needed to be. Ditto the electrics raceways. I spent a LOT of time in Vectorworks getting the pigtail spacing, raceway design and numbering the way we wanted, doing 3 sets of drawing corrections with ETC (via e-mailed file exchanges) before I allowed the submittals to pass. - Our Box positions and DL & DR wall boxes use flush. The box positions require a cable bundle to the units anyway, so flush works well. The DL & DR boxes are in very tight locations where a pigtail box would not have fit. One thing about maintenence. The current design from ETC uses a Heyco keyed plastic strain relief on the pigtails that is very easy to replace, certainly easier to work with then a typical 2 screw or compression fitting common to standard electrical systems, though I can't yet say as to long term reliablity. Additionally, I always found that typically in a bad circuit, it's the connector that goes bad and it's easier to replace a connector on a pigtail then a flush mount, where you might have to remove rigging hardware to get at the back of the flush receptacle. ETC's raceway design is better in this regard with significantly more access panels then was found on the raceways I just sent to the dumpster. FWIW, I have a tour of Porgy and Bess on stage at this moment. They travel with 3 full length electrics - 10ft. Versa-bar with 6 units ea., dimmer doubled, etc... They hung 2 of these electrics on my, now vacated main electrics equipped w/ raceways and pigtails. I was curious if the hanging tails would interfere with the tour electrics and multi's. There were no issues, so pigtails seemed to be the way to go. Steve Bailey Brooklyn College Steve Bailey Lighting Director Brooklyn Center for the Perfoming Arts Brooklyn College 718 951-5349 P 718 951-4673 F baileyst [at] brooklyn.cuny.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42227A8B.A2B7EFDA [at] cybercom.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 20:57:31 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: Flush mount or pigtail References:

Jeff Forbes wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > On Feb 27, 2005, at 3:01 AM, Stagecraft wrote: > > > I may be jumping into this new thread a little late, but I still must > > ask: > > do you have problems with instrument mobility when using flush mounted > > circuits? Every time I've used one I've found myself wishing for ten > > to > > twenty lengths of three foot cable to make up for the missing > > pigtails. Of > > course, this could be due to design errors on my own part, but the job > > just > > seems easier with that extra pigtail on the raceway. > > > > Chris Nimm > > > I would have to agree here, that the extra length from a pigtail often > means the difference between having to move the instrument or go off in > search of a 3' jumper. My main experience with flush mount receptacles > comes from the Portland Center for the Performing Arts, where at least > two of the theaters have flush mount receptacles installed at floor > level. This means they keep getting stepped on or kicked, the plastic > retainer around the outside that keeps the receptacle from falling > inside the raceway eventually breaks, the receptacle falls inside the > raceway, and the pin from the mail plug comes in contact with the metal > box of the raceway and shorts out the circuit. The electricians there > spend a lot of time replacing broken receptacles. That is not a sign that flush mounting is bad, but a sign of inappropriate use of a connector for the application. They should be in a floor pocket that protects them from random kicks and suchlike. No electrical connector that I can think of offhand will stand up to that sort of abuse for very long. Having a pigtail coming up out of a flush mounted electrical box on the floor would probably have similar bad experiences, although the failure modes would be different. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <003501c51d39$c20647a0$0600000a [at] BRUTUS> From: "Jon Ares" References:

Subject: Re: Flush mount or pigtail Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 18:03:55 -0800 > That is not a sign that flush mounting is bad, but a sign of > inappropriate > use of a connector for the application. They should be in a floor pocket > that protects them from random kicks and suchlike. The floor-level flush-mount connectors Jeff speaks of are not IN the floor, rather they are perpendicular boxes AT the floor. I have the same frustration as Jeff with those layouts. Walking on the catwalks is a bit of a hazard - very easy to step either on the connection, or step on a cable, which pulls on the connector at the plug mount, which is literally 1" off the catwalk floor. -- Jon Ares Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts www.hevanet.com/acreative www.wlhstheatre.org ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42227F18.8F483E7B [at] cybercom.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 21:16:56 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Subject: Re: Flush mount or pigtail References:

Jon Ares wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > That is not a sign that flush mounting is bad, but a sign of > > inappropriate > > use of a connector for the application. They should be in a floor pocket > > that protects them from random kicks and suchlike. > > The floor-level flush-mount connectors Jeff speaks of are not IN the floor, > rather they are perpendicular boxes AT the floor. I have the same > frustration as Jeff with those layouts. Walking on the catwalks is a bit of > a hazard - very easy to step either on the connection, or step on a cable, > which pulls on the connector at the plug mount, which is literally 1" off > the catwalk floor. Bad design. I don't know offhand if it is part of the NEC, but I think it is, that outlets are not supposed to be lower than 18 inches or so above the floor. For precisely that reason. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-id: Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 21:53:18 -0500 Subject: Finding Parts / Touring Question From: "Robert D. Ingram" References: In-Reply-To: Good Day Everyone, I'm touring to the wisdom of the list for a couple of issues. First, I am having a lot of trouble trying to find a supplier for 5 Pin Din blank (meaning that I wire it) male ends. I have to replace an end on a fogger remote, but none of my usual suspects carry / can order the blank male ends. Any Suggestions would be appreciated. Secondly I have a couple of students who are looking to the future and wondering how people get technical positions on touring Broadway and Rock shows. My understanding (with my very limited touring experience) is that many of these shows are generally staffed in the following ways: Applying with the production company who has the contract for a show or group of shows. Knowing some one who is on the tour and recommends you for an opening. Getting in on the ground level in a warehouse / shop and working up to the shows. Getting connected through previous work with a company / union / road house. Are these the common ways of getting "on the road"? If there are any other useful methods I would be love to hear about them. Thanks for the band width, and have a good day. Rob Robert Ingram Signature Program Technical Director and Media Services Technician James Hubert Blake High School 300 Norwood Rd. Silver Spring, MD 20905 Main: 301-879-1300 Office: 301-879-1335 Fax: 301-879-1306 Email: Robert_D_Ingram [at] fc.mcps.k12.md.us ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050228034321.61906.qmail [at] web14124.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 19:43:21 -0800 (PST) From: June Abernathy Subject: Re: Stage Manager/Designer Relationship I have an addendum, I guess, to my earlier comments. As I said, I do love the breakdown that Tom Kelly suggests, and absolutely recommend that an SM of any size show should absolutely take the time to do one. As far as sharing, however . . . I don't remember Tom Kelly recommending that you copy and distribute the document at the first production meeting, but I guess that might be in there. It does sound a bit presumptious, even if you have Tom Kelly's track record, which most of us don't. Mention that you have such a document, and that it brings up some questions, sure. Make a few copies and have them available, sure. Definately have one in hand and try to find time to talk to the director about the show's technical needs, and maybe have a copy to hand over to them if they seem interested. But I'd think that would happen at some separate time from a full production meeting. As I said in my first message, most people are not overly concerned with the overview - only the SM, Director, and TD, really. The rest are generally looking at the show from their own perspective. I'd be more likely to make up the appropriate sub-documents from the form, like a preliminary prop list, light cue list, sound cue list, french scene breakdown, costume list, etc., and then perhaps offer those to the appropriate designer or department head if they thought they might find them useful. If you mark everything as preliminary, and present such documents in a suitably humble and "in the spirit of helpfulness" fashion, I think it would take a really prickly or insecure designer to take offense. These lists can be really useful - very often one person notices or thinks of something that another has not when going through the script. If your analysis leads you to come up with areas of potential conflict between departments, then you might bring THAT up at a production meeting. As in "My preliminary look at the script gives me concern about the shift between scene 2 and scene 3 - it seems we're going to need to clean up all the broken glass and stage blood and change Tony's clothes, as well as recovering or replacing the couch during that change. I would think we're going to need more than a blackout there - is that something that anyone has a plan for?" And still - it's something I would probably bring up with the director first, rather than just springing it at a production meeting. On the whole, though, if all designers, directors, and department heads (including the SM) were to try to consider all the offers of outside input they get on how to do their jobs as attempts at being helpful, rather than annoying intereference, it would probably improve the overall Karma of the experience. And you'd be correct more often than not. Easier to say than to do, I know, but worth a shot. June Abernathy AEA Stage Manager IATSE #321 (Tampa, FL) FOH Electrician The Lion King National Tour (Gazelle) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4222965B.30408 [at] att.net> Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 22:56:11 -0500 From: David Marks Subject: Re: Finding Parts / Touring Question References:

In-Reply-To: Robert D. Ingram wrote: > First, I am having a lot of trouble trying to find a supplier for 5 Pin Din blank (meaning that I wire it) male >ends. > markertek.com - online catalog and ordering LXS51 5 pin male DIN connector (MIDI type) $3.25 or LXS52 5 pin male DIN connector $3.25 dave marks ------------------------------ Message-id: Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 23:06:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Designer/Stage Manager Relationship From: "Joshua Webb" References: In-Reply-To: > Usually, in real theatre, the director, the SD, and >the LD are gone soon after opening night > Chris "Chris" Babbie > Location Sound > MON AZ > >Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates >negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... "Real Theatre"...I didn't realize I'd been doing fake theatre all these years. Joshua G. Webb Designer/Technical Director Worcester Academy ------------------------------ From: "Ronnie Thevenot" Subject: RE: Designer/Stage Manager Relationship Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 21:09:55 -0700 Message-ID: <000001c51d4b$5c5e6510$0502a8c0 [at] ronnie> In-Reply-To: "Real Theatre"...I didn't realize I'd been doing fake theatre all these years. (snip) I have been! Ronnie Thevenot ------------------------------ Message-Id: Reply-To: Brad Pattison From: Brad Pattison Subject: Show Call Duration? Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2005 23:07:51 -0500 (GMT-05:00) After much debate there appears to be some discrepancy as to when a show call ends. As light board operator it was originally touted as 'your show call is over when YOU are done' i.e., the house is clear, the warmer cue is out, the lights are homed and shut down, and the board can be shut off. Now, like being condescended to so many times before, I have been informed by my "Superior" Huh, That; 'IN THE EYES OF THE REST OF THE FREE WORLD THE SHOW CALL IS OVER WHEN THE CURTAIN HITS THE STAGE'. Am I missing something? The curtain pagers are still paging bows at the curtain, does that mean their call is also over and this is just for grins. It seems to be difficult to deal in absolutes when you must keep changing the rules to fit the circumstances. There have been a couple of variations to this most recent ABSOLUTE definition. Does anyone have an opinion on the contents of this elusive 'slot' of time. Brad Pattison ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #310 *****************************