Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.6) with PIPE id 20958110; Thu, 17 Mar 2005 03:00:47 -0800 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.6 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #332 Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 03:00:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on prxy.net X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #332 1. Re: Tech Packet by Danielle Maul 2. AutoReply: Re: Tech Packet by jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com 3. Re: Work Light by Danielle Maul 4. AutoReply: Re: Work Light by jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com 5. Re: Work Lights by Gregg Carville 6. AutoReply: Re: Work Lights by jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com 7. Re: retensioning handlines by BKHAIN [at] aol.com 8. AutoReply: Re: retensioning handlines by jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com 9. Re: retensioning handlines by Steve Larson 10. Re: Stage Pin Connectors (BATES vs. Entertainment Power Systems) by Steve Larson 11. Re: retensioning handlines by Brian Munroe 12. Re: AutoReply: Re: Tech Packet by Brian Munroe 13. AutoReply: Re: retensioning handlines by jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com 14. AutoReply: Re: Stage Pin Connectors (BATES vs. Entertainment Power Systems) by jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com 15. Re: DLP vs LCD for big projectors, Stagecraft Digest #331 by Ford H Sellers 16. AutoReply: Re: DLP vs LCD for big projectors, Stagecraft Digest #331 by jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com 17. Balloons and smoke alarms by CB 18. AutoReply: Balloons and smoke alarms by jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com 19. Re: Balloons and smoke alarms by Stephen Litterst 20. AutoReply: Re: Balloons and smoke alarms by jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com 21. Please check your autoreplies! (Re: AutoReply: Balloons and smoke alarms) by Noah Price 22. Re: Please check your autoreplies! (Re: AutoReply: Balloons and smoke alarms) by Brian Munroe 23. Re: Work Lights by Bruce Purdy 24. Re: Please check your autoreplies! by Bruce Purdy 25. Re: Balloons and smoke alarms by "Randy Whitcomb" 26. NFPA Pyro Regs. [Was: NIST Station Fire] by murr rhame 27. Re: NFPA Pyro Regs. [Was: NIST Station Fire] by Bruce Purdy 28. Re: foam to fabric and peeps by "Paul Guncheon" 29. Rose Brand Problems by "Rob Carovillano" 30. Rhode Island nightclub fire report by "Michael Finney" 31. Re: Work Lights by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 32. Re: Balloons and smoke alarms by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 33. Re: Saw Stop Cabinet Table Saw by Stuart Wheaton 34. Re: Balloons and smoke alarms by Dale Farmer 35. candelabra screw base by John Landon 36. Re: candelabra screw base by Stephen Litterst 37. Re: candelabra screw base by Stuart Wheaton 38. Re: candelabra screw base by Greg Persinger 39. Burning smoke alarm (was Balloons and smoke alarms) by Greg Persinger 40. Fire Detection by Greg Persinger 41. Re: Fire Detection by Bruce Purdy 42. Re: candelabra screw base by Richard Bakos 43. Re: Burning smoke alarm (was Balloons and smoke alarms) by Dale Farmer 44. Re: Rose Brand Problems by Boyd Ostroff 45. Re: Fire Detection by Dale Farmer 46. Re: Rose Brand Problems by IAEG [at] aol.com *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-Id: <81A93682-961D-11D9-AA77-000D933CFFEA [at] earthlink.net> From: Danielle Maul Subject: Re: Tech Packet Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:15:45 -0500 Hi- I'd have joined in sooner, but I've been horribly busy. I agree with Brian M.'s points and I've several of my own. There are several places that need just one word for more clarification. But one thing you should truly do, is go back and fix all the typos & misspellings. Danielle Maul ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050316131845.11369.qmail [at] seanic11.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:18:45 GMT From: jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com Subject: AutoReply: Re: Tech Packet Thank you for your message. The Soundscupture RC4 Wireless Dimming team is working at the USITT Stage Expo from 16-Mar-2005 through 19-Mar-2005. During this time, email responses may take up to 24 hours. For emergency support please call cellular 416-720-5802. We look forward to helping you -- thank you for your patience! ------------------------------ Message-Id: From: Danielle Maul Subject: Re: Work Light Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:32:45 -0500 Mini-10's or Altman Q-Lights Danielle Maul ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050316133618.20865.qmail [at] seanic11.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:36:18 GMT From: jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com Subject: AutoReply: Re: Work Light Thank you for your message. The Soundscupture RC4 Wireless Dimming team is working at the USITT Stage Expo from 16-Mar-2005 through 19-Mar-2005. During this time, email responses may take up to 24 hours. For emergency support please call cellular 416-720-5802. We look forward to helping you -- thank you for your patience! ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42383A11.2080807 [at] portlandstage.com> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:52:17 -0500 From: Gregg Carville Subject: Re: Work Lights References: In-Reply-To: We currently use 6 - 500w Home Depot Flood lights. Attached to a junction box that can be secured eiher to a c-clamp or side arm. controlled by non-dim switches. I hate them! The lamps if not correctly seated they will arc and fry the socket. Sometimes the lamps seem to go forever, sometimes it seems like you are replacing them every week. For our space (32' prosc.) they put out enough light - but I want more. I have two mounted FOH, 2 SR & SL. The SR & SL units move a fair amount due to scenery or other show requirements. However - they are cheap ($15 a pop) lamps are around $4 or so. I would love to get some sort of HID system and then have a few incandescents as needed (painting, short breaks, etc) But at this point the powers that be don't have the money. So we go with the cheap and disposable system. FWIW - Gregg ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050316135600.29565.qmail [at] seanic11.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:56:00 GMT From: jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com Subject: AutoReply: Re: Work Lights Thank you for your message. The Soundscupture RC4 Wireless Dimming team is working at the USITT Stage Expo from 16-Mar-2005 through 19-Mar-2005. During this time, email responses may take up to 24 hours. For emergency support please call cellular 416-720-5802. We look forward to helping you -- thank you for your patience! ------------------------------ From: BKHAIN [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1c0.2473408b.2f69953e [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:57:18 EST Subject: Re: retensioning handlines Hi everybody, I was just doing this (retensioning the handlines -- hemp) at the theater I am temporary TD for... I'll apologize up front for my ignorance, but I was wondering about the floating bottom blocks? Not all counterweight systems I've used have them. Are they still installed and what is -- or was -- their purpose? And some of these have been wedged down with counterweights. Not a good idea I presume? Thanks, Benjamin Hain Temporary TD Rochester Community and Technical College Rochester MN ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050316140045.31781.qmail [at] seanic11.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:00:45 GMT From: jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com Subject: AutoReply: Re: retensioning handlines Thank you for your message. The Soundscupture RC4 Wireless Dimming team is working at the USITT Stage Expo from 16-Mar-2005 through 19-Mar-2005. During this time, email responses may take up to 24 hours. For emergency support please call cellular 416-720-5802. We look forward to helping you -- thank you for your patience! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:08:17 -0500 Subject: Re: retensioning handlines From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: It is an idler pulley or tension pulley and the weight of the unit helps keep the operating line taut. Counterweights should not be wedged around them. sjl > From: BKHAIN [at] aol.com > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:57:18 EST > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: Re: retensioning handlines > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Hi everybody, > > I was just doing this (retensioning the handlines -- hemp) at the theater I > am temporary TD for... I'll apologize up front for my ignorance, but I was > wondering about the floating bottom blocks? Not all counterweight systems I've > used have them. Are they still installed and what is -- or was -- their > purpose? > And some of these have been wedged down with counterweights. Not a good idea > I presume? > > Thanks, > > Benjamin Hain > Temporary TD > Rochester Community and Technical College > Rochester MN > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:09:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Stage Pin Connectors (BATES vs. Entertainment Power Systems) From: Steve Larson Message-ID: In-Reply-To: I use nothing but Bates. Never broken one, never had one come off that I installed. I don't mind paying a little extra for something that I trust. sjl > From: "Thad Kramer" > Reply-To: "Stagecraft" > Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 23:31:35 -0500 > To: "Stagecraft" > Subject: Re: Stage Pin Connectors (BATES vs. Entertainment Power Systems) > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Brandon, > > I've got to tell you right off the bat that we are a dealer for Creative > Stage Lighting, so I may be biased, but I prefer EPS connectors over > Bates brand. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:20:55 -0500 From: Brian Munroe Reply-To: Brian Munroe Subject: Re: retensioning handlines In-Reply-To: References: It is a tension wheel, meant to keep the tension on the line consistent as the length of the hemp changes due to changes in humidity. Brian Munroe brian [at] themunroes.com On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:57:18 EST, BKHAIN [at] aol.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Hi everybody, > > I was just doing this (retensioning the handlines -- hemp) at the theater I > am temporary TD for... I'll apologize up front for my ignorance, but I was > wondering about the floating bottom blocks? Not all counterweight systems I've > used have them. Are they still installed and what is -- or was -- their purpose? > And some of these have been wedged down with counterweights. Not a good idea > I presume? > > Thanks, > > Benjamin Hain > Temporary TD > Rochester Community and Technical College > Rochester MN > ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:22:42 -0500 From: Brian Munroe Reply-To: Brian Munroe Subject: Re: AutoReply: Re: Tech Packet In-Reply-To: References: I hope we are not going to see this message for every email the lists sends out until 19-Mar-2005! Brian Munroe brian [at] themunroes.com On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:18:45 GMT, jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Thank you for your message. > > The Soundscupture RC4 Wireless Dimming team is working at the USITT Stage Expo from 16-Mar-2005 through 19-Mar-2005. During this time, email responses may take up to 24 hours. For emergency support please call cellular 416-720-5802. We look forward to helping you -- thank you for your patience! > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050316141510.5456.qmail [at] seanic11.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:15:10 GMT From: jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com Subject: AutoReply: Re: retensioning handlines Thank you for your message. The Soundscupture RC4 Wireless Dimming team is working at the USITT Stage Expo from 16-Mar-2005 through 19-Mar-2005. During this time, email responses may take up to 24 hours. For emergency support please call cellular 416-720-5802. We look forward to helping you -- thank you for your patience! ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050316141516.5595.qmail [at] seanic11.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:15:16 GMT From: jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com Subject: AutoReply: Re: Stage Pin Connectors (BATES vs. Entertainment Power Systems) Thank you for your message. The Soundscupture RC4 Wireless Dimming team is working at the USITT Stage Expo from 16-Mar-2005 through 19-Mar-2005. During this time, email responses may take up to 24 hours. For emergency support please call cellular 416-720-5802. We look forward to helping you -- thank you for your patience! ------------------------------ Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050316094014.024b73d0 [at] postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:09:09 -0500 From: Ford H Sellers Subject: Re: DLP vs LCD for big projectors, Stagecraft Digest #331 In-Reply-To: Hey Boyd, In my limited experience I've found DLP projectors to be superior for a number of reasons. Although the DLP's that I've worked with require more time to set up, and adjust...They have much better resolution, and don't project a visible black (A big dark grey screen is really annoying when you're trying for a black-out). Shutters are an option, but aren't as necessary for DLPs. My info may be a little out of date as I haven't used "Big Iron" in about four years. However, when I was using it...Christie seemed to be easier on the front end (set up) than Barco, & DLPs always looked better than LCDs. You get what you pay for. My $.02 Good luck, -Ford ************************ Ford H Sellers Master Electrician Cornell University Schwartz Center for the Performing Arts 430 College Avenue Ithaca NY, 14850 >------------------------------ > >Date: Tue, 15 Mar 2005 10:29:40 -0500 (EST) >From: Boyd Ostroff >Subject: DLP vs LCD for big projectors >Message-ID: > >I'm looking for someone who has actual experience using "big iron" LCD and >DLP projectors in the 10,000 lumen ballpark. I am pretty familiar with >what to expect from the big DLP units (Barco, Christie, Digital >Projection). I'm doing a production in South America this summer and >spec'ed a 10,000 lumen DLP projector. They are planning to use a >Sanyo PLC-XF45 LCD projector for the large screen: > >http://www.sanyo.com/business/projectors/large%5Ffixed/index.cfm?productID=648 > >Now this is lower resolution than the big Barco DLP's, but I can handle >that. I'm just worried that they rate the brightness differently. This >unit sells for about $14,000 without lens. Barco's 6,000 lumen DLP >projector (RLM R6+) is $22,500 without lens. Seems a little too good to be >true - although I'm all for a bargain. > >Anyone have any experience with these? Are LCD and DLP projectors really >that different in price? (Please don't respond by saying "I really like my >3,000 lumen projector... I already know what to expect from those :-) > >Also - if anyone is interested in the high powered Barco projectors, I >just returned from an incredible two day session with them in Scottsdale. >They invited me and 8 other designers out to discuss their products, >provide some guidance for the future, and of course show off all their >toys. They really gave us the red carpet treatment :-) We also saw their >LED products for video walls and similar things and those are quite >remarkable as well. Their new 27,000 lumen DLP projector is mind boggling. >If there's general interest I can write up a summary of the various >products, or let me know if you have any specific questions. > >| Boyd Ostroff >| Director of Design and Technology >| Opera Company of Philadelphia >| http://tech.operaphilly.com >| ostroff [at] operaphilly.com ************************ Ford H Sellers Master Electrician Cornell University Schwartz Center for the Performing Arts 430 College Avenue Ithaca NY, 14850 (607) 254-2736 office (607) 254-2733 fax ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050316151220.16213.qmail [at] seanic11.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:12:20 GMT From: jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com Subject: AutoReply: Re: DLP vs LCD for big projectors, Stagecraft Digest #331 Thank you for your message. The Soundscupture RC4 Wireless Dimming team is working at the USITT Stage Expo from 16-Mar-2005 through 19-Mar-2005. During this time, email responses may take up to 24 hours. For emergency support please call cellular 416-720-5802. We look forward to helping you -- thank you for your patience! ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050316081843.01701ea8 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:18:43 From: CB Subject: Balloons and smoke alarms >So what I need now is a system to remove rogue balloons trapped against = >a 50' ceiling, before they have the opportunity to cause a problem. >Suggestions? Blowgun. It could be a decorative social studies project. Or, surround the sensors with pointy bits. As the balons near the sensors, they pop themselves. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050316152416.21605.qmail [at] seanic11.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:24:16 GMT From: jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com Subject: AutoReply: Balloons and smoke alarms Thank you for your message. The Soundscupture RC4 Wireless Dimming team is working at the USITT Stage Expo from 16-Mar-2005 through 19-Mar-2005. During this time, email responses may take up to 24 hours. For emergency support please call cellular 416-720-5802. We look forward to helping you -- thank you for your patience! ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 10:24:40 -0500 From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: Balloons and smoke alarms Message-id: <42384FB7.2735E822 [at] ithaca.edu> Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts References: CB wrote: > --------------------------------------------------- > > Blowgun. It could be a decorative social studies project. Or, surround > the sensors with pointy bits. As the balons near the sensors, they pop > themselves. The problem with laser sensors is that they can be tripped by interrupting the beam between the sensors, so the balloon may never get near the pointy bits. Steve L. -- Stephen C. Litterst Technical Supervisor Ithaca College Dept. of Theatre Arts 607/274-3947 slitterst [at] ithaca.edu ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050316152745.23595.qmail [at] seanic11.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:27:45 GMT From: jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com Subject: AutoReply: Re: Balloons and smoke alarms Thank you for your message. The Soundscupture RC4 Wireless Dimming team is working at the USITT Stage Expo from 16-Mar-2005 through 19-Mar-2005. During this time, email responses may take up to 24 hours. For emergency support please call cellular 416-720-5802. We look forward to helping you -- thank you for your patience! ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: Cc: jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com From: Noah Price Subject: Please check your autoreplies! (Re: AutoReply: Balloons and smoke alarms) Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 07:55:25 -0800 On Mar 16, 2005, at 7:24 AM, jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com wrote: > Thank you for your message. Good-bye! :-) This subscription has been changed to inactive. To do this yourself, write to stagecraft-inactive [at] theatrical.net and reply to the confirmation message. I'll take this opportunity to highlight good auto-reply etiquette: 1) Auto-replies should not respond to "bulk" messages. This is indicated by a variety of header lines, but this list uses: Precedence: list I've seen other's use: Precedence: bulk 2) Auto-replies should not respond to a particular sender more than once (at least within a reasonable period of time). Noah ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:06:21 -0500 From: Brian Munroe Reply-To: Brian Munroe Subject: Re: Please check your autoreplies! (Re: AutoReply: Balloons and smoke alarms) In-Reply-To: References:

Thanks Noah! Brian Munroe brian [at] themunroes.com On Wed, 16 Mar 2005 07:55:25 -0800, Noah Price wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > On Mar 16, 2005, at 7:24 AM, jsmith [at] theatrewireless.com wrote: > > > Thank you for your message. > > Good-bye! :-) This subscription has been changed to inactive. To do > this yourself, write to stagecraft-inactive [at] theatrical.net and reply to > the confirmation message. > > I'll take this opportunity to highlight good auto-reply etiquette: > > 1) Auto-replies should not respond to "bulk" messages. This is > indicated by a variety of header lines, but this list uses: > Precedence: list > I've seen other's use: > Precedence: bulk > > 2) Auto-replies should not respond to a particular sender more than > once (at least within a reasonable period of time). > > Noah > > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:13:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Work Lights From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > We currently use 6 - 500w Home Depot Flood lights. Attached to a > junction box that can be secured eiher to a c-clamp or side arm. > controlled by non-dim switches. > > I hate them! > > However - they are cheap ($15 a pop) lamps are around $4 or so. I've done this as well. When the scoops I mentioned yesterday are needed to light the cyc - (I REALY want proper Cyc lights - maybe someday), then my backup plan for work lights is to use those Home Despot quartz lights. I got them because they were affordable. I too hate them for two reasons: 1] They seem to put out about half as much light as do the scoops. (Both are 500w - I would have expected the quartz to be more efficient than incandescent - I guess I was wrong!) 2] The sockets are iffy. One often stops working, but after I remove the screw and open the front glass door, I simply wiggle the lamp or give it a quarter turn, and it comes right back on. Royal PITA! I can NOT recommend using these fixtures except in an emergency. when you have no other choice! Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 11:17:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Please check your autoreplies! From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > Good-bye! :-) This subscription has been changed to inactive. To do > this yourself, write to stagecraft-inactive [at] theatrical.net and reply to > the confirmation message. Thanks Noah! I was dreading a Loooooong weekend of needless junk messages! Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000601c52a47$3aa98540$6501a8c0 [at] D4D3R151> From: "Randy Whitcomb" References:

Subject: Re: Balloons and smoke alarms Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:43:05 -0700 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart Wheaton" > Could you at least get the AHJ to tie together two beams or beams and > smoke or rate-of rise detectors to prevent false triggers? My understanding is that if the beam is broken there is a delay time and if the trouble condition still exists then and alarm condition is registered. Something just passing through the beam shouldn't trigger an alarm. Something blocking the beam will. Balloons rising up should present no problem. It's as the damn things gradually lose the ability to float and slowly come back to ground that they are likely to trigger an alarm. Also workers on lifts and ladders tend to be a problem until more and more people learn about the detectors. I think signs should be posted. Randy Whitcomb, TD Price Civic Aud. Loveland, CO ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 12:06:51 -0500 (EST) From: murr rhame Subject: NFPA Pyro Regs. [Was: NIST Station Fire] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: On Tue, 15 Mar 2005, Bruce Purdy wrote: murr rhame wrote: >> NFPA has two separate code books for pyrotechnics and one for >> flame effects. NFPA-1123 regulates display fireworks. >> NFPA-1126 regulates pyrotechnics before a proximate audience. >> NFPA-160 covers flame effects before an audience. NFPA >> restrictions are generally proportioned to the level of >> danger. For example, the minimum distance to the audience for >> flash paper and other small devices is 15 feet. The minimum >> audience separation distance for a twelve inch fireworks shell >> is 840 feet. NFPA calls both of these pyrotechnics but I >> wouldn't say they're arbitrarily lumped together. State and >> local regs may be far more (or much less) restrictive than the >> NFPA regs. > Thank you for the information. I apologise if I was > misinformed, and am always glad to be set straight. (Learn from > this, Frank.) > I do have a pdf copy of NFPA-1126, but I don't see the > separation of which you speak. I see no reference to flash > paper at all (Although I had been told it was covered as a > pyrotechnic device). 15' is indeed listed as a minimum distance > for all pyrotechnic devices, but I don't see any reference to > 840' for the 12"shell. Is that based on your own experience > with them and their fallout radius? I oversimplified and I cited regs from two separate NFPA standards. The 15 ft minimum applies to small flash paper effects and any number of similar small scale pyro effects. NFPA-1126 doesn't explicitly mention a 15 ft setback for flash paper. Some larger effects that use flash paper would need more than a 15 ft setback. The 840 ft distance for 12 inch shells is from NFPA-1123. The general rule for fireworks shells is 70 ft of separation for every inch of shell diameter. There are many other NFPA-1123 rules about minimum separation distances depending on the type of fireworks used and local conditions. The closest separation allowed under NFPA-1123 rules is 75 ft. Some outdoor fireworks shows also include proximate pyrotechnic materials which are governed by NFPA-1126 and can be much closer to spectators than conventional outdoor fireworks. The two sets of rules can be used in one production as long as the appropriate rules are applied to the appropriate materials. The NFPA regs have glossaries and definitions that sort out the differences. One of the more important NFPA-1126 rules is that indoor proximate pyrotechnics must be specifically manufactured and marketed for indoor use. You can't legally use small consumer fireworks for indoor pyro work under NFPA regs. Setback distances for flame effects are covered by NFPA-160. In part, the minimum distances for flames are based on wattage per square meter that reaches the audience and the duration of exposure. I've experienced a 140 megawatt flame from too-close-for-comfort. There are limits to the amount of heat radiation someone can take in comfortably. - murr - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 13:24:48 -0500 Subject: Re: NFPA Pyro Regs. [Was: NIST Station Fire] From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > The NFPA regs have glossaries and definitions that sort out the > differences. One of the more important NFPA-1126 rules is that > indoor proximate pyrotechnics must be specifically manufactured > and marketed for indoor use. You can't legally use small > consumer fireworks for indoor pyro work under NFPA regs. > Murr, this is all very interesting, and I thank you for the information. If I am not mistaken, the pyro used by Great White at the Station was indoor approved devices were they not? As such, they would be covered by NFPA-1126. If this is so, I still don't see how Flash paper is any less restricted than what they used. > Setback distances for flame effects are covered by NFPA-160. In > part, the minimum distances for flames are based on wattage per > square meter that reaches the audience and the duration of > exposure. I've experienced a 140 megawatt flame from > too-close-for-comfort. There are limits to the amount of heat > radiation someone can take in comfortably. > I'm confused by this. I understand wattage from an electrical perspective. Wattage for flames?? If this refers to heat, I know degrees, and if brightness foot-candles or lumens. Watts? I do not have NFPA-160. What does it say about lit candles? I have had several groups ranging from theatrical to "Grateful Dead" bands that insist on using candles, and I don't know what the legal restrictions are. Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 08:32:12 -1000 From: "Paul Guncheon" Subject: Re: foam to fabric and peeps Message-id: <0d4201c52a56$799a0c20$0202a8c0 [at] yourxhtr8hvc4p> References: >>Does anyone know of a good, non-toxic adhesive in a spray can that will join soft upholstery foam to fabrics? Rod Osiowy>> Good and "non-toxc", no. I've used Scotch 77 with some success, double coating both surfaces as per the directions (yes, I sometimes read them... a lesson taught to me by some wallpaper). The fabric still released on occasion, foarming bubbles. <> Actaully, that was a pretty clever insert. Laters, Paul "Who was pope before John Paul I?" Tom asked piously. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 15:20:52 -0500 From: "Rob Carovillano" Subject: Rose Brand Problems Message-id: <000201c52a65$a71d0e90$6601a8c0 [at] LAPTOP> References:

I want to advise everyone to avoid Rose Brand if at all possible. Other than the fact that I have never once reached the person I was trying too without getting voicemail or being on hold for 45 minutes (minimum). They have now trumped up damage charges on us on two separate occassions. Once they accused us of pinning a set of rented legs when we simply hung them and did not such thing. And now they are accussing us of damaging some green screen drops that came to me dirty and with some pulls in the seams. When I inspected them for the return they were in the same condition as when I received them. I do not know if it is their policy to pick on their smaller customers or what but I will NEVER be renting from them in the future. Does anyone have any suggestions on what to do about this situation. I am thinking about forwarding the matter to our University's attorney since I make no progress when trying to reach them. Rob Carovillano Technical Director - Bluett Theatre Saint Joseph's University (610) 660-1044 rcarovillano [at] verizon.net ------------------------------ Subject: Rhode Island nightclub fire report Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 14:34:07 -0800 Message-ID: From: "Michael Finney" I finally managed to dig my way through the draft copy of the NIST report on the '03 Rhode Island nightclub fire. Without getting into the potential code changes that may result (for better or worse), there were a couple of things that stood out as being potentially useful even if you didn't want to read the whole thing: 1) The Executive Summary is nicely concise. It's also an interesting glimpse of how accident investigations proceed for anybody who's interested. I've been involved in a couple, and I have to say that this one is a good example of how to do as open and transparent an investigation as is practical. 2) Appendixes D and E (Small Scale Lab Tests and Foam Covered Wall Panel Tests) are good demonstrations of how flame spread is tested (and what sort of nastiness can result) 3) Appendix F (Pyrotechnic Device Test Series) is a great example of device testing. It should also scare the crap out of anybody who thinks "oh, it's just a Gerb...those can't hurt anything". Before anybody gets too defensive about that particular statement: I actually had somebody say that to me last Friday when suggesting an effect for a special event. He's still breathing, although he may be missing part of his backside from where I chewed on it (after he kept trying to tell me that I was obviously just afraid of pyro in general and obviously hadn't ever actually worked with it). =20 4) Appendix K (Code Comparison Tables) is a fascinating and very useful comparison of the codes typically applied to our industry. I saw a couple of differences in there that I'd never caught before - and I've been looking at codes on a regular basis for at least 20 years. That table could be tremendously helpful to anybody discussing permits and code requirements with their AHJ...especially if the two of you are coming from experiences using different codes. Just thought I'd share! BTW: as related to the codes getting potentially more stringent....We've still got nothing on a lot of other places. I'm in the middle of working through a minor crisis for a job in Europe. One of my vendors builds consistently to Class A standards (for animated figures...a mix of fiberglass, synthetic fur, nylon tube, and metal fabrication), but hadn't done the research to make sure that this would be acceptable for a European (German) installation. Guess what? These figures are supposed to meet the DIN B1 standard...and that requires actually having the materials tested *together* as an assembly. So I'm now working with an expert in Germany who specializes in DIN code compliance for entertainment venues...and missing USITT as a result. Ohhhhhhhh, am I ever grouchy! We'd only been beating this vendor up about this issue for 2 months... If you don't still have the link to the NIST report that others kindly posted previously, here it is: http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/ncst.htm/#Rhode_Island_Nightclub=20 Michael Finney Thinkwell Design & Production mfinney [at] thinkwelldesign.com www.thinkwelldesign.com ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1a2.2f7dab57.2f6a1efd [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 18:45:01 EST Subject: Re: Work Lights In a message dated 16/03/05 16:15:22 GMT Standard Time, bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com writes: > I too hate them for two reasons: > > 1] They seem to put out about half as much light as do the scoops. (Both > are 500w - I would have expected the quartz to be more efficient than > incandescent - I guess I was wrong!) > > 2] The sockets are iffy. One often stops working, but after I remove the > screw and open the front glass door, I simply wiggle the lamp or give it a > quarter turn, and it comes right back on. Royal PITA! > > I can NOT recommend using these fixtures except in an emergency. when > you have no other choice! The ones we get over here seem to be more robust and reliable. Perhaps this is because they are often used on building sites, before the power wiring and lighting has been installed. I have also seen them used in stage lighting, once. There was a notorious production by Peter Sllars of "The Magic Flute" at Glyndebourne some years ago. Sellars being what he is, it was set on and under a Californian freeway. The upper area was lit with a dozen of these screwed to the floor at the front, and by nothing else! For the lower area, the house footlights were used. Three hours odd of solid underlighting! It's fine for an effect, yes. BTW, the LD was one Wolfgang Goebbel. UK Opera houses use him quite a lot. Personally, I usually dislike his designs, although he makes very dramatic pictures. But he uses all side and backlight. In opera, it is desirable to be able to see faces properly, and he doesn't use follow-spots. I attended one show he had lit, with an elderly Viennese lady of my acquaintance, who knows most of the operas well, and is fluent in French, German, and Italian. She couldn't hear the words! I think that this is simply because she couldn't see the lip movements. I think that we all lip-read to some extent. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <158.4cc2bca1.2f6a21a0 [at] aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 18:56:16 EST Subject: Re: Balloons and smoke alarms In a message dated 16/03/05 16:44:42 GMT Standard Time, rwhitco [at] comcast.net writes: > Balloons rising up should present no problem. It's as the damn things > gradually lose the ability to float and slowly come back to ground that they > > are likely to trigger an alarm. Also workers on lifts and ladders tend to > be a problem until more and more people learn about the detectors. I think > signs should be posted. Cheap, automatic alarms, or anything else, are bad news. They prejudice the installation of good, efficient gear. For fire, I believe that systems using 'rate-of-rise (of temperature)' as the danger signal are the best. They are not cheap. Perhaps Dr. Doom would give us an opinion. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4238E50D.5020103 [at] fuse.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:01:49 -0500 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: Saw Stop Cabinet Table Saw References:

In-Reply-To: Dale Farmer wrote: > >> >>Another question, I have heard several stories of people who >>got into a saw AFTER they turned it off but while it was >>still spinning down. As far as I can tell, the saw stop >>does NOT protect you against this type of injury. >> >>Stuart > > > If it is the one I think it is, it near instantly stops the blade when > fired. They demo used some hotdogs, and the skin of the hotdogs > were barely scratched. > > --Dale Yes, you are correct, that is how they work when the power is on. But after you turn off a saw, even a saw stop equipped saw, it will spin the blade until it stops, and if a person contacts the blade at that time, as best I can determine from Saw Stop's website, the Saw Stop is not going to function, and the person can get mangled. The only time the saw stop halts the blade instantly is when the device triggers, and that's expensive. Stuart ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4238EBBE.ECE53C0D [at] cybercom.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:30:22 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Organization: The fuzz in the back of the fridge. Subject: Re: Balloons and smoke alarms References: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > In a message dated 16/03/05 16:44:42 GMT Standard Time, rwhitco [at] comcast.net > writes: > > > Balloons rising up should present no problem. It's as the damn things > > gradually lose the ability to float and slowly come back to ground that > they > > > > are likely to trigger an alarm. Also workers on lifts and ladders tend to > > be a problem until more and more people learn about the detectors. I > think > > signs should be posted. > > Cheap, automatic alarms, or anything else, are bad news. They prejudice the > installation of good, efficient gear. For fire, I believe that systems using > 'rate-of-rise (of temperature)' as the danger signal are the best. They are not > cheap. Perhaps Dr. Doom would give us an opinion. > > Frank Wood The only thing I don't like about rate of rise detectors are the ones that don't ignore temperatures under 100 F or so. I was in a hotel a number of years ago that had one of these just inside a little used side door. Except on this exceptionally cold and windy february weekend when the main door was unusable for carts. Everytime the bellmen brought in or out a cart and a gust of wind came along at the wrong moment, filling the little vestibule with very, very cold outside air. Then the warm air from the adjacent lobby would flow in.... BEEP. BEEP.. BEEP 28 false fire alarms in a two day convention. --Dale Of course, this was the same hotel that had a fire alarm go off when the smoke detector caught on fire. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4238ECD0.9050403 [at] mail.wtamu.edu> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 20:34:56 -0600 From: John Landon Subject: candelabra screw base I am having a hard time finding 150 candelabra size screw bases for our current production. They need to connect to the wire with removable backs that have little points that poke through the insulation 'in-line' without striping and attaching wire at each socket. I've searched Grainger, McMaster-Carr, and similar sites without success. I maybe using the wrong keywords. Can anyone aim me in the right direction? John Landon Technical Director Branding Iron Theatre West Texas A&M University Canyon, TX 79110 806.651.2815 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:04:26 -0500 (EST) From: Stephen Litterst Subject: Re: candelabra screw base In-reply-to: Message-id: <3396.172.150.14.39.1111028666.squirrel [at] 172.150.14.39> References: > I am having a hard time finding 150 candelabra size screw bases for our > current production. They need to connect to the wire with removable > backs that have little points that poke through the insulation 'in-line' > without striping and attaching wire at each socket. > > I've searched Grainger, McMaster-Carr, and similar sites without > success. I maybe using the wrong keywords. Can anyone aim me in the > right direction? I had the same problem a few months ago and ended up taking one to the counter of my local electrical supplier. They didn't stock them but could order them very easily. Unfortunately, the invoice is in my office and I won't be back until Monday, but if you can wait that long... I do remember that they are around $2 ea, which surprised us. Steve LItterst ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4238F777.5080504 [at] fuse.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:20:23 -0500 From: Stuart Wheaton Subject: Re: candelabra screw base References: In-Reply-To: John Landon wrote: > I am having a hard time finding 150 candelabra size screw bases for our > current production. They need to connect to the wire with removable > backs that have little points that poke through the insulation 'in-line' > without striping and attaching wire at each socket. > > I've searched Grainger, McMaster-Carr, and similar sites without > success. I maybe using the wrong keywords. Can anyone aim me in the > right direction? WWW.actionlighting.com go to Stranded wire bulb sockets, 75 cents each. Stuart ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:15:03 -0600 Subject: Re: candelabra screw base From: Greg Persinger Message-ID: In-Reply-To: John, What are you trying to do with them? I have never seen this setup before but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Maybe with some more information we can help you come up with a substitute. Greg Persinger Vivid Illumination Greg [at] Vividillumination.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:15:52 -0600 Subject: Burning smoke alarm (was Balloons and smoke alarms) From: Greg Persinger Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > Of course, this was the same hotel that had a fire alarm go off when the > smoke detector caught on fire. OK Dale, I have to ask. How does a smoke detector catch on fire? Greg Persinger Vivid Illumination Greg [at] Vividillumination.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:16:33 -0600 Subject: Fire Detection From: Greg Persinger Message-ID: In-Reply-To: OK all of the talk about smoke detectors has got me curious as to what most theaters have for fire detection. What is the best type of system for a production venue that uses smoke/haze effects and can you use these systems without a fire watch? (I'm not talking about doing pyro) I have heard of systems using both rate of rise and smoke detectors where the smoke detectors can be disabled while the building is occupied and theatrical haze was being used. When not using haze the smoke detectors were enabled. Most places I have worked it was the duct detectors that caused all of the problems with false alarms because of the haze. What is your experience? I know ultimately it is up to the AHJ and Life safety code as to what can be installed, I just have yet to buy the life safety code and sit down and read it. I look forward to reading your answers. Greg Persinger Vivid Illumination Greg [at] Vividillumination.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:26:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Fire Detection From: Bruce Purdy Message-ID: In-Reply-To: > OK all of the talk about smoke detectors has got me curious as to what most > theaters have for fire detection. We have smoke detectors throughout the building, and an optical sensor across the auditorium ceiling. When fog / haze is being used, I disable the auditorium and stage zones. I've learned that it is sometimes advisable to also disable the dressing room zone for certain rock concerts, for a different reason! Bruce -- Bruce Purdy Technical Director Smith Opera House ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42390126.7020300 [at] StudioOneSB.com> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:01:42 -0500 From: Richard Bakos Organization: Studio One Inc. Subject: Re: candelabra screw base References: In-Reply-To: Try contacting Showmen Supplies Inc, (219) 362-5286, 718 Lakeside St, Laporte, IN 46350 They cater to the carnival industry and have all kinds of these type of devices in stock. John Landon wrote: > I am having a hard time finding 150 candelabra size screw bases for > our current production. They need to connect to the wire with > removable backs that have little points that poke through the > insulation 'in-line' without striping and attaching wire at each socket. > -- Richard Bakos President Studio One Inc. 25833 State Road 2 South Bend, In 46619-4736 VOICE 574-232-9084 FAX 574-232-2220 Rick [at] StudioOneSB.com www.StudioOnesb.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42390A4D.AD5BE590 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Wed, 16 Mar 2005 23:40:45 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Organization: The fuzz in the back of the fridge. Subject: Re: Burning smoke alarm (was Balloons and smoke alarms) References: Greg Persinger wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > > Of course, this was the same hotel that had a fire alarm go off when the > > smoke detector caught on fire. > > OK Dale, I have to ask. How does a smoke detector catch on fire? As it was explained to me the next day. It was one of the earlier type ionization smoke detectors, before the use of a radioactive source was approved. It was in a kitchen, and grease had accumulated in and around it. Heat from the ionizer ignited the accumulated guck on it. These were 1970's era smoke detectors. --Dale ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 00:23:16 -0500 (EST) From: Boyd Ostroff Subject: Re: Rose Brand Problems In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References:

Sorry to hear you've had a problem. I have never rented anything from Rose Brand. However when it comes to having soft goods constructed they are really the best in the business. I also have no problems whatsoever reaching anyone there. In fact, I'm a big fan of Rosebrand because they've always gone the extra yard for us, their work is top notch, and they're very responsive. Personally I think it's a little irresponsible to air your dirty laundry in public like this. There should be more effective ways to get results. I don't want to get involved, but I'll forward your complaint to my contact at Rose Brand. | Boyd Ostroff | Director of Design and Technology | Opera Company of Philadelphia | http://tech.operaphilly.com | ostroff [at] operaphilly.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <423915FA.8E4C1C44 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 00:30:35 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Organization: The fuzz in the back of the fridge. Subject: Re: Fire Detection References: Greg Persinger wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > OK all of the talk about smoke detectors has got me curious as to what most > theaters have for fire detection. > > What is the best type of system for a production venue that uses smoke/haze > effects and can you use these systems without a fire watch? (I'm not talking > about doing pyro) > > I have heard of systems using both rate of rise and smoke detectors where > the smoke detectors can be disabled while the building is occupied and > theatrical haze was being used. When not using haze the smoke detectors were > enabled. Back to basics. There are several types of fire detection technology. They all have their advantages and disadvantages. I'll try to summarize and explain each kind. Once you have wrapped your brain around them then things become reasonably obvious. Heat detectors. These have been around us for a long time. They are things like the solder links holding the fire curtain rope up, the solder links or glass ampoules in water sprinkler heads. Advantages are that they are very reliable, and cheap to make. Disadvantages are that they take a relatively long time to activate in actual fire conditions unless they are very close to or in the heat plume of the fire. The glass ampoules will also activate if it gets too cold and the liquid in them freezes. Ones in kitchens and other high heat areas need to have higher melting points, otherwise many false alarms. There are heat detectors that will operate electrical circuits. These are typically round 2.5cm ceramic disks with a 1cm metal face in the center. Common in pre-smoke detector era fire alarm systems. Rate of temperature rise sensors. These are relatively recent, late 70s early 80s they became economical to produce. These have a thermocouple to measure the temperature and a stupid little computer that remembers what the temperature was for the past couple of minutes. If the temperature goes up too fast, they activate. Advantages are that these will detect nearby fires pretty quickly, and have a fairly low false alarm rate, as few other things will produce the temperature spike that a real fire produces. Disadvantage are that during very cold weather, ones near exterior doors can false alarm, and ones in kitchens near the ovens will false alarm when you pull out the cake. Smoke detectors. These come in different technologies as well. Photo-cell or obscuration detectors. They pass a beam of light through the ambient air onto a photocell. When the smoke grows thick enough, the light is blocked and it activates. Advantages are that it goes off early, especially in a slow, smoky, smoldering type fire that may not be very hot. Disadvantages are that it doesn't go off as quickly as other smoke detectors, and things like balloons, insects, and condensing water vapor from your shower will also block the light and cause it to activate. Ionization smoke detector. These use a small radioactive source to ionize the room air flowing through the detector chamber. When the smoke gets into there and is ionized, the two plates start to conduct through the smoky air and cause it to activate. Advantages, very sensitive, goes off early, fairly low false alarm rate. Disadvantages are that it also detects the tobacco and other types of smoke, airborne dusts and mists and so on. It incorporates a controlled radiological material, so must be disposed of as hazardous waste, at least in the USA. There are a couple of other smoke detector technologies around that were pretty much abandoned when the radiological ionization smoke detectors were brought to market. Flame detector. This is an optical device that looks for certain frequencies and intensities of light. Usually used for specialty applications. Most often encountered in things like furnaces, where it is used as a safety device to shut off the fuel if the fire goes out in the burner. Used in the aerospace industry for detecting fires in jet engine housings and the like. Good for remote sensing, when you cannot for some reason put a detector right at the site. Very low false alarm rate. Only senses fire when the fire is in the rather narrow field of view of the device. Expensive. Human being. These are the most sensitive device, with many modes of identifying pre-fire and incipient fire conditions. Their rate of false alarms are very low with fairly basic training, and will often take mitigating actions with minimal training. Disadvantages are that they exhibit reduced sensitivity when asleep, tired or inebriated. They also tend to want to be paid for their fire detection duties, so have a pretty high daily maintenance cost. --Dale ------------------------------ From: IAEG [at] aol.com Message-ID: <46.6560fa44.2f6ab436 [at] aol.com> Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 05:21:42 EST Subject: Re: Rose Brand Problems In a message dated 3/17/05 12:27:00 AM, ostroff [at] operaphilly.com writes: << Sorry to hear you've had a problem. I have never rented anything from Rose Brand. However when it comes to having soft goods constructed they are really the best in the business. I also have no problems whatsoever reaching anyone there. In fact, I'm a big fan of Rosebrand because they've always gone the extra yard for us, their work is top notch, and they're very responsive. Personally I think it's a little irresponsible to air your dirty laundry in public like this. There should be more effective ways to get results. I don't want to get involved, but I'll forward your complaint to my contact at Rose Brand. | Boyd Ostroff | Director of Design and Technology | Opera Company of Philadelphia | http://tech.operaphilly.com | ostroff [at] operaphilly.com >> I would have to echo Boyd's comments, , not only about my relationship with Rosebrand but also the manner in which you presented your issues with them. I have never had difficulty getting ahold of who I needed to speak with there and have the cell phone # of my principal contact there and have called him about my needs literally coast to coast. Interestingly, I too forwarded this posting to my rep there as well. very best, Keith Arsenault IAEG - International Arts & Entertainment Group Tampa, Florida ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #332 *****************************