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Subject: Stagecraft Digest #338
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For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Stagecraft Digest, Issue #338

 1. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by "LES LIND" <lindl [at] nesd.k12.pa.us>
 2. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by "LES LIND" <lindl [at] nesd.k12.pa.us>
 3. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by Greg Bierly <gbierly [at] dejazzd.com>
 4. Re: Charged for gelstring damage
    by Greg Bierly <gbierly [at] dejazzd.com>
 5. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by "Tony" <deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com>
 6. Re: Charged for gelstring damage
    by "Tony" <deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com>
 7. Re: Scrim Remnants
    by "Brian Jeffrey" <b.jeffrey [at] comcast.net>
 8. Re: Gerber repair
    by "Paul Guncheon" <paul.guncheon [at] verizon.net>
 9. Re: Charged for Gel string damage
    by Jason Tollefson <jason [at] tollefsondesigns.com>
10. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by "Delbert Hall" <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com>
11. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
12. Re: Charged for gelstring damage
    by Richard Bakos <Rick [at] StudioOneSB.com>
13. Re: Charged for Gel string damage
    by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
14. Re: Charged for Gel string damage
    by Richard Bakos <Rick [at] StudioOneSB.com>
15. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by Stephen Litterst <slitterst [at] ithaca.edu>
16. Re: Charged for gelstring damage
    by Nancy Moeur <nmoeur [at] mailbox.syr.edu>
17. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
18. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by "Scheu Consulting Services" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
19. Re: Moving lights - Cost?
    by Ford H Sellers <fhs4 [at] cornell.edu>
20. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
21. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by "Flowers, Curt" <cjflower [at] uillinois.edu>
22. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
23. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by Stephen Litterst <slitterst [at] ithaca.edu>
24. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
25. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
26. Boombox suggestions
    by patrick_kevin [at] colstate.edu
27. Re: What is the Best Genie Lift to buy
    by "C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
28. Re: Boombox suggestions
    by Mark O'Brien <marko [at] email.arizona.edu>
29. Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
    by Stephen Litterst <slitterst [at] ithaca.edu>
30. Re: Boombox suggestions
    by "LES LIND" <lindl [at] nesd.k12.pa.us>
31. Cost of expendables
    by "C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
32. Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
    by Mark O'Brien <marko [at] email.arizona.edu>
33. Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
    by Richard Wolpert <richw [at] unionconnector.com>
34. Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
    by "Klyph Stanford" <klyphstanford [at] earthlink.net>
35. Re: Email address harvesting
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
36. Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
37. Re: Email address harvesting
    by Harold Hallikainen <harold [at] hallikainen.com>
38. Re: Charged for gelstring damage
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
39. Re: Stage Expo photos
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
40. Re: Cost of expendables (keeping classes from burning lamps)
    by "Sam Fisher" <Sam [at] FisherTheatrical.com>
41. Re: florida pyro -  fire fly
    by "Jack Morones" <jmorones [at] saddleback.edu>
42. Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)
    by "Flowers, Curt" <cjflower [at] uillinois.edu>
43. Re[2]: Charged for gelstring damage
    by "Frank E. Merrill" <Lamplighter [at] tcon.net>
44. Re: Re[2]: Charged for gelstring damage
    by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
45. Re: Charged for gelstring damage
    by "Storms, Randy" <rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu>
46. Re: Boombox suggestions
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
47. vectorworks moving light symbols
    by "Jack Morones" <jmorones [at] saddleback.edu>
48. Re: Boombox suggestions
    by Dale Farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
49. Re: Boombox suggestions
    by Dale Farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
50. Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
51. Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
52. Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
53. Re: Boombox suggestions
    by "LES LIND" <lindl [at] nesd.k12.pa.us>
54. Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)
    by Dale Farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
55. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
56. Re: Surfboard
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
57. Ratchet box wrench\spanner
    by "CrewCall" <crewcall [at] tiscali.it>
58. Re: [Show-Control] Stage Expo photos
    by CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
59. Stage Expo photos
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
60. Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
61. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
62. Re: Charged for gelstring damage
    by June Abernathy <jea00321 [at] yahoo.com>
63. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
64. Re: [Show-Control] Stage Expo photos
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
65. Re: [Show-Control] Stage Expo photos
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
66. Re: Ratchet box wrench\spanner
    by James Feinberg <feinberg [at] sandiego.edu>
67. Re: [Show-Control] Stage Expo photos
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
68. Re: Cost of expendables (keeping classes from burning lamps)
    by Greg Bierly <gbierly [at] dejazzd.com>
69. Re: Surfboard
    by Greg Bierly <gbierly [at] dejazzd.com>
70. Re: Cost of expendables (keeping classes from burning lamps)
    by Greg Persinger <gregpersin [at] comcast.net>
71. Re: Surfboard
    by Greg Persinger <gregpersin [at] comcast.net>
72. Re: What is the Best Genie Lift to buy
    by Mike Voytko <mv35 [at] nyu.edu>
73. Re: Ratchet box wrench\spanner
    by "Ian Cunningham" <mailinglist [at] techie.f9.co.uk>
74. Re: Email address harvesting
    by ish [at] twcny.rr.com
75. Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com

*** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject
*** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to
*** one message subject in each reply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <s23fc42c.060 [at] ac3.nesd.k12.pa.us>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:07:10 -0500
From: "LES LIND" <lindl [at] nesd.k12.pa.us>
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos

Who's holding the peeps in the front row?

Les Lind, TD
NHS Dramatics
Northeastern High School
Manchester, PA



>>> pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu 3/21/05 4:29 PM >>>
For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see
<http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

> Photos are now 
> online.  http://www.jdurand.no-ip.org/photos/USITT_Stage_Expo_2005/ 

So who all is in the Stagecraft Meeting photo?

------------------------------

Message-Id: <s23fc489.062 [at] ac3.nesd.k12.pa.us>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:08:19 -0500
From: "LES LIND" <lindl [at] nesd.k12.pa.us>
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos

..and the peeps in the back row on the left end?

Les Lind, TD
NHS Dramatics
Northeastern High School
Manchester, PA



>>> pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu 3/21/05 4:29 PM >>>
For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see
<http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

> Photos are now 
> online.  http://www.jdurand.no-ip.org/photos/USITT_Stage_Expo_2005/ 

So who all is in the Stagecraft Meeting photo?

------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-21214981 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21214981 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <9fed7bb60affacdaaece29f6d06fc967 [at] dejazzd.com>
From: Greg Bierly <gbierly [at] dejazzd.com>
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:25:52 -0500

> I'm in the geeky one with the beard.

Doesn't that describe a lot of us Theater Professionals? (me included)

Greg Bierly
Technical Director
Hempfield HS


------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-21213294 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21210849 [at] prxy.net> <list-21211289 [at] prxy.net> <list-21213294 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <b19d22d652c23386272fcddc5d438a3f [at] dejazzd.com>
From: Greg Bierly <gbierly [at] dejazzd.com>
Subject: Re: Charged for gelstring damage
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:28:16 -0500

> That reminds me of a dear friend I worked with for years, he owned his 
> own replacement lamps:  and if a lamp failed, he would have the crew 
> replace it with one of his inventory, tag the instrument, then swap 
> the burned out lamp back into the unit (reclaiming his 
> replacement),before sending the unit back to the rental shop.

Most suppliers I have worked with supply a spare lamp or two for rented 
fixtures.  If the lamp is burned out I MUST return the burnout or I am 
charged for the lamp.

In response to the original question, I believe scrolls are costly 
enough to warrant buying (or making) your own.  If the renter is going 
to supply a stock scroll then it would be at their cost.

Greg Bierly
Technical Director
Hempfield HS


------------------------------

Message-ID: <014501c52edb$8a140310$0800000a [at] Tony>
From: "Tony" <deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com>
References: <list-21214981 [at] prxy.net> <list-21234690 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:34:44 -0000


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Greg Bierly" <gbierly [at] dejazzd.com>
To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos


> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> > I'm in the geeky one with the beard.
>
> Doesn't that describe a lot of us Theater Professionals? (me included)
>
> Greg Bierly

I haven't got a beard.....
(Mind you, I'm not a pro - just a VERY busy amateur running an increasingly
busy venue in my spare (HA!) time.)

8-)))))))))))))))))



------------------------------

Message-ID: <014901c52edb$c7d333b0$0800000a [at] Tony>
From: "Tony" <deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com>
References: <list-21210849 [at] prxy.net> <list-21211289 [at] prxy.net> <list-21213294 [at] prxy.net> <list-21234888 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Charged for gelstring damage
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:36:27 -0000


> In response to the original question, I believe scrolls are costly
> enough to warrant buying (or making) your own.  If the renter is going
> to supply a stock scroll then it would be at their cost.
>
> Greg Bierly
>
Having made up scrolls on 2 occasions (8 each time) I can certainly verify
they're a pain to do, and time consuming (hence the price tag for pro-made
scrolls), but when they're done, it is really satisfying when the run sweet
first time!

Ynot



------------------------------

Message-ID: <002601c52edc$1c89c180$0200a8c0 [at] DESKTOP>
From: "Brian Jeffrey" <b.jeffrey [at] comcast.net>
References: <list-21229263 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Scrim Remnants
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:38:54 -0500

 Hopefully you have already located those suitable scrim remnants, but if 
not I'll try to help as well.  And speaking of remnants, I have various odd 
lots and rolls of fabric closeouts of all kinds that need a home. 
Everything from suedes, satins, scrims, vinyls, glitter fabrics, celastic, 
printed fabrics, costume fabrics, camo etc. etc.  These are located in a 
warehouse near me in MA.  I probably need to spend the time to cut some 
swatches or at least take some photos.  Feel free to contact me off list 
should you want to investigate these items further or perhaps take a 
shopping spree in Massachusetts.
Brian Jeffrey
b.jeffrey [at] comcast.net

I am looking for scrim remnants and cut off for any suppliers you can
> think of.  I am about to call Rose Brand but I didn't see any on their
> specials/closeout pages.  I am looking for large scraps around 30" or
> wider in any shape or length of dark colored scrim.  It is being used
> for a layered textured set of borders and legs.  I am hoping for as
> much black as possible but dark grey or navy and even purple (or any
> combination of) would work.  I would be more than happy to pay shipping
> plus whatever you would see as a fair price if you had a box of scraps
> laying around.  Any suppliers not on the list that you think I should
> call would also be appreciated.  Thanks. 



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 02:39:10 -1000
From: "Paul Guncheon" <paul.guncheon [at] verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Gerber repair
Message-id: <002101c52edc$26c143d0$0202a8c0 [at] yourxhtr8hvc4p>
References: <list-21229263 [at] prxy.net>

Just to keep the list informed about my ongoing situation with Gerber
concerning warranty repair on my Gerber Evolution multitool on which I found
weird surface rust within 1 week of starting to use the tool, even on blades
that I had never unfolded.

As I mentioned before, I wrote to Gerber about this situation and received a
letter lecturing me on the microscopic structure of steel and that I had
obviously failed in the maintenance of the tool.  I wrote back that I own
over 25 multitools and knives and the Gerber is the only one rusting in this
fashion... in fact at all.

I received another email, this one somewhat derisive, once again lecturing
me on the molecular structure and refusing to discuss the matter further.

I appealed to the list and one of you fine people provided me with the
corporate address.  I wrote to them and was told to send it in.  I did so on
2/25, requesting that Gerber let me know when they received the tool.

As of this date, I have heard nothing.

As a side note, I sent in a Victorinox multitool for repair of a broken
blade and promptly received a new replacement.

I'll keep the list appraised of the situation.

Laters,

Paul


------------------------------

Message-ID: <20050322124730.23222.qmail [at] web51004.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 04:47:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Jason Tollefson <jason [at] tollefsondesigns.com>
Reply-To: jason [at] tollefsondesigns.com
Subject: Re: Charged for Gel string damage
In-Reply-To: <list-21229263 [at] prxy.net>

> what could I (or anyone) have done to prevent it?

Well hindsight is 20/20 but one thing that can be done is to double or even triple the length of
certain saturated colors.  Anytime I use dark blues in a gel scroll I order that section doubled. 
Then you just program a slow effect to rock the gel back a forth across the longer section thereby
spreading the intensity across a wider section allowing the gel time to cool.  It does mean you
end up with fewer color options but, really folks,  If you need more than 7-8 from a single
position just get a full CYM mixing source.

Jason Tollefson
www.tollefsondesigns.com

------------------------------

Message-ID: <BAY104-F427257C5ADD69D1585DFACC24E0 [at] phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <list-21214981 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Delbert Hall" <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:49:20 -0500

I am in the back row  (near center) next to the "bearded geek."

-Delbert

Delbert L. Hall
423-773-HALL (4255)



>From: "Jonathan S. Deull" <jdeull [at] clarktransfer.com>
>Reply-To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
>To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
>Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos
>Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 21:27:33 -0500
>
>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>
>I'm in the geeky one with the beard.
>
>Back row, second from SL, next to Delbert.
>
>Jonathan Deull
>
>
>
>



------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1e1.38a1461b.2f716ea5 [at] aol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:50:45 EST
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos


In a message dated 3/22/05 7:49:54 AM, flyingfx [at] hotmail.com writes:

<< I am in the back row  (near center) next to the "bearded geek."

-Delbert

Delbert L. Hall
423-773-HALL (4255) >>



i keep trying to view and have trouble loading the page

: - ( 




very best,

Keith Arsenault

IAEG -  International Arts & Entertainment Group 
Tampa, Florida

------------------------------

Message-ID: <4240160D.2000609 [at] StudioOneSB.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:56:45 -0500
From: Richard Bakos <Rick [at] StudioOneSB.com>
Organization: Studio One Inc.
Subject: Re: Charged for gelstring damage
References: <list-21210849 [at] prxy.net> <list-21211289 [at] prxy.net> <list-21213294 [at] prxy.net> <list-21234888 [at] prxy.net> <list-21235650 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-21235650 [at] prxy.net>

I rent out my scrollers with color in them but most of the time they are 
used for one off shows and the most where the stock color is used is a 
week.  The only time I have had problems with damage  was on a week long 
rental when it looked like they parked the scroll between the two 
darkest colors and ran them full on 1k pars for the entire week. I think 
that they also ran the lamps with out the scroller power supply on.  The 
biggest problem was the warping of the sheets that on a forerunner 
caused the roll not to lay flat and as a result threw off the end to end 
timing of the scroller.  Didn't notice soon enough when they came back 
to charge them with it.

While on the topic does any one have a favorite list of stock colors for 
their scrollers ?

Rick

-- 

Richard Bakos

President 

Studio One Inc.

25833 State Road 2

South Bend, In 46619-4736

VOICE 574-232-9084

FAX   574-232-2220

Rick [at] StudioOneSB.com <mailto:Rick [at] StudioOneSB.com>

www.StudioOnesb.com

 


------------------------------

Reply-To: <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
Cc: jason [at] tollefsondesigns.com
Subject: RE: Charged for Gel string damage
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:56:46 -0500
Message-ID: <00a401c52ede$9e383bb0$6501a8c0 [at] Dell>
In-Reply-To: <list-21236391 [at] prxy.net>


> really folks,  If you need more than 7-8 from a single 
> position just get a full CYM mixing source.

If I buy a scroll, the issue isn't, I think, how many colors I need for
any one show, but rather how many colors I'll need for all the shows in
which I will wind up using that scroll.



------------------------------

Message-ID: <424016CC.5030506 [at] StudioOneSB.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:59:56 -0500
From: Richard Bakos <Rick [at] StudioOneSB.com>
Organization: Studio One Inc.
Subject: Re: Charged for Gel string damage
References: <list-21236391 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-21236391 [at] prxy.net>

Jason,

How long of loop do you use?

Jason Tollefson wrote:

> 
>Then you just program a slow effect to rock the gel back a forth across the longer section thereby
>spreading the intensity across a wider section allowing the gel time to cool.  
>  
>

-- 

Richard Bakos

President 

Studio One Inc.

25833 State Road 2

South Bend, In 46619-4736

VOICE 574-232-9084

FAX   574-232-2220

Rick [at] StudioOneSB.com <mailto:Rick [at] StudioOneSB.com>

www.StudioOnesb.com

 


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 08:22:02 -0500
From: Stephen Litterst <slitterst [at] ithaca.edu>
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos
Message-id: <42401BFA.D8AAA6AC [at] ithaca.edu>
Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts
References: <list-21232989 [at] prxy.net>

LES LIND wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Who's holding the peeps in the front row?

That's Andrew Riter.  I'm the tall lanky guy next to him with the
wanna-beard.

Steve Litterst

-- 
Stephen C. Litterst
Technical Supervisor
Ithaca College
Dept. of Theatre Arts
607/274-3947
slitterst [at] ithaca.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:12:13 -0500
From: Nancy Moeur <nmoeur [at] mailbox.syr.edu>
Subject: RE: Charged for gelstring damage
Message-ID: <42D3841E [at] OrangeMail>

Someone else quoted:  (sorry, forgot to get the name....)

 "Each Smart ColorT scroller comes with pre-installed Apollo Gel Shield
to extend gel string life"

I thought I remembered reading similar text about Wybron, but now I
can't find it.

I reply:
A rental shop that I've gotten Wybron CXIs from bolts a frame of heat shield 
to the scroller (through the holes the mounting plate bolts to, as I recall).  
Unless Wybron has changed the design of the new units, I don't think they have 
an integrated heatshield.

best,

-nancy

Nancy Moeur
AME, Syracuse Stage & SU Drama
nmoeur [at] mailbox.syr.edu
EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY, 
Please do not use my 'wso' address.


------------------------------

From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:15:53 GMT
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos
Message-Id: <20050322.061645.11522.13520 [at] webmail29.lax.untd.com>


I stayed out of camera range, but I enjoyed the Stagecraft List meeting. (I was not trying to be anti-social; I do get pitched at a lot by playwrights wanting their scripts produced, so I avoid being caught on camera: Google is all too effective as a search engine.)
/s/ Richard


------------------------------

Reply-To: <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
From: "Scheu Consulting Services" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
Subject: RE: ETCP Handbook
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:46:32 -0500
Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
Message-ID: <000a01c52eed$f1124380$c9fea8c0 [at] ROXY>
In-reply-to: <list-21216318 [at] prxy.net>

Richard Bakos wrote:

>If this is for only the upper tier then what good is the=20
>certification? =20

...and...

>This does no good to any one.=20
>What is needed is a test standard ( and the study materials to=20
>go with )=20
>that we can train members to and have them end up as "Certified"=20
>riggers.  As others have posted the time required to even qualify to=20
>take the test will take a lifetime in some locals.=20

That's what the handbook is for. It tells you what will be tested. =
Pretty
detailed, actually. It's all in there. It appears from your comments =
that
you may not have read it yet...

I don't want to speak for the ETCP council, but it is my understanding =
that
the ETCP Council is in the process of identifying and evaluating which
existing programs and training courses would qualify to "teach to" the
certification "body of knowledge". Please keep in mind that the rigging =
test
in November is a mere baby step in a whole industry wide certification
process. There will be growing pains.=20

Yes, there will be certifications in other disciples (i.e. electrical
skills). Also, of much more general interest, there is a process in =
place to
provide "Essential Skills" certification, that would cover far more =
people
than a certification in a particular discipline. You really should go to =
the
ETCP website and look closely at the material there to get a good =
overview
of the whole program and process. And if you still have questions or
concerns, you should contact the ETCP council directly (that would be =
Mr.
Sapsis, among others). This IS an open process

Mat Goebel wrote:

>Is there a forum or something similar where this standards are =
discussed
while they are being developed and open to public comment and review?

The ETCP certification process is separate from ESTA's Technical =
Standards
Program. ETCP will certify people's skills and abilities. ESTA/TSP is
developing standards that cover materials, equipment, use, and design. =
In
both cases, however, the process is open and you are invited to make
comments and/or join the process. See the ESTA and ETCP websites for =
details
as to how to make "official" comments and/or participate.. The more the
merrier!!!

Frankly, griping on the list may make one feel better, and some WILL =
listen
and try to address your concerns when they meet to discuss these things. =
But
you need to be personally proactive and get involved in the process. =
Even if
it's only to go to directly to ESTA/ETCP and voice your concerns there,
instead of this forum. You're more likely to be heard there than here.

Peter Scheu

Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
www.scheuconsulting.com
Tel: 315.422.9984
fax: 413.513.4966




------------------------------

Message-Id: <5.2.1.1.2.20050322093649.024b7e90 [at] postoffice8.mail.cornell.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:48:53 -0500
From: Ford H Sellers <fhs4 [at] cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Moving lights - Cost?
In-Reply-To: <list-21161538 [at] prxy.net>

There are plenty of cheep DJ versions of moving mirror instruments in this 
price range.  Take a look at the Martin SXC-500.

It's a 7 channel, 8bit little scanner.

I've been looking at getting a couple for our Light Lab.

As to the Theatrical versions...In general we (the theatre folks) 
demand  quite a lot for our dollar, and spend quite a lot less than the 
DJ/Live Entertainment (trade show, etc), and Architectural markets.

We demand QUIET, 16bit smooooth movement, Changeable color & gobos, And 
enough brightness to punch up a scene lit with 1k lekos, and 2k fresnels.

All of these things add cost, and as we ARE a small section of the market 
dollar wise...

At 09:52 PM 3/20/2005, you wrote:
>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>   Since we are talking about the Ellipscan, I have a related question.  I am
>surprised that fixtures like this haven't dropped to something like $200
>now.  The necessary electronics and stepper motors are pretty low cost
>nowdays.  I realize that theater is not a mass market... but it is not a
>small one either.  Also, non-theater venues are certainly using plenty of
>theatrical type lighting.  Why haven't prices dropped more?
>
>
>Joe Dunfee  joe [at] dunfee.com
>Gordonville, Pennsylvania, U.S.A.

************************
Ford H Sellers
Master Electrician
Cornell University
Schwartz Center for the Performing Arts
430 College Avenue
Ithaca NY, 14850
(607) 254-2736  office
(607) 254-2733  fax 



------------------------------

Message-ID: <4240358E.1010904 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:11:10 -0500
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Reply-To: Rees [at] fredonia.edu
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos
References: <list-21210098 [at] prxy.net>

I was. Note peeps held by my student, Lynn Wheat.
This is the last of peeps that you will hear from me. ;)
Steve Rees

Paul Schreiner wrote:

> So who all is in the Stagecraft Meeting photo?



------------------------------

Subject: RE: Stage Expo photos
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:21:44 -0600
Message-ID: <71D0296313DCB24C93FE62A0CA7B49CA423B79 [at] adminmail4.ui.uillinois.edu>
From: "Flowers, Curt" <cjflower [at] uillinois.edu>

So..... How come only two of you guys are happy? - Aside from the guys
on the far left and right, the rest of you look like you had to load-in
the show and there was no beer anywhere in Toronto!=20



------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050322072633.03b437c8 [at] localhost>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 07:27:06 -0800
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos
In-Reply-To: <list-21247055 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21247055 [at] prxy.net>

At 07:21 AM 3/22/2005, you wrote:
>So..... How come only two of you guys are happy? - Aside from the guys
>on the far left and right, the rest of you look like you had to load-in
>the show and there was no beer anywhere in Toronto!

It's the beards, we hide our happiness behind the beard so bosses don't cut 
our pay thinking we like what we do.


----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523  USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886
fax:  +1 408 356-4659
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:32:50 -0500
From: Stephen Litterst <slitterst [at] ithaca.edu>
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos
Message-id: <42403AA2.571BE567 [at] ithaca.edu>
Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts
References: <list-21247055 [at] prxy.net>

"Flowers, Curt" wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> So..... How come only two of you guys are happy? - Aside from the guys
> on the far left and right, the rest of you look like you had to load-in
> the show and there was no beer anywhere in Toronto!

Well, there is beer in Toronto, but as you can see we're not holding
any of it.  Hence the facial expressions.  :)

Steve LItterst
-- 
Stephen C. Litterst
Technical Supervisor
Ithaca College
Dept. of Theatre Arts
607/274-3947
slitterst [at] ithaca.edu

------------------------------

Message-ID: <42403E57.8080701 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:48:39 -0500
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Reply-To: Rees [at] fredonia.edu
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos
References: <list-21232989 [at] prxy.net>

Hi,
Should have said where I was located.
Front row, third from left with black shirt and white lanyard.  Steve 
Litterst is fourth in front row.  Lynn Wheat is keeper of the peeps.
Steve Rees

LES LIND wrote:
>
> Who's holding the peeps in the front row?
>[snip]


------------------------------

Message-ID: <424040AC.20808 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:58:36 -0500
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Reply-To: Rees [at] fredonia.edu
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos
References: <list-21247055 [at] prxy.net>

Curt,
Well, I can't speak for the others but I did load in part of the show - 
Tech Expo- with some of my students, which was very well received. 
Actually, there was a surfeit (sp) of beer in Toronto - that might 
explain it.
Steve

Flowers, Curt wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> So..... How come only two of you guys are happy? - Aside from the guys
> on the far left and right, the rest of you look like you had to load-in
> the show and there was no beer anywhere in Toronto! 
> 



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:23:19 -0500
From: patrick_kevin [at] colstate.edu
Subject: Boombox suggestions
Message-id: <41835741c56c.41c56c418357 [at] colstate.edu>

The theatre department had a fun electrical experience while we were 
away at USITT last week.  During the course of the week, four boomboxes 
in four different outlets in two different adjacent rooms stopped 
working, or emitted smoke and then stopped working.  It turns out, some 
electrician had accidentally wired the basement of the building to 240v 
instead of 120v.  Nice, eh?  The problem has been rectified, but now I 
get to shop for replacement boomboxes.  Anyone have something new or 
old, that has stood up to dance and drama rehearsals, plays CD-RW's and 
perhaps MP3 or WMA cd's as well, with an auxiliary input?  Something 
that is loud enough for dance, and strong enough for years of use, and 
good enough for the sound designer to playback during rehearsals?  I'm 
looking in the $100-$300 range - no pro equipment is going into the 
hands of student rehearsals with very little oversight.
Thanks,
\<

Kevin Patrick 
Assistant Professor of Theatre 
Columbus State University 
706.568.0248 
patrick_kevin [at] colstate.edu 
theatre.colstate.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:32:14 -0500
Subject: Re: What is the Best Genie Lift to buy
From: "C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
Message-ID: <BE65B2BE.172DE%brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21229263 [at] prxy.net>


>=20
>> I need to get a Genie lift that you can move around as you=3D20
>> focus, without riggers. If you are using one let me know how=3D20
>> you like it. Should I be looking at a different brand? What=3D20
>> am I going to have to pay for the unit? Give me a model=3D20
>> number if you have one.=3D20
>=20
> Most (if not all) single-personnel lifts, outriggerless or not, that I
> am aware of are not designed to be moved with someone at height.  If you
> absolutely need to be able to move while up in the air, I'm afraid you'd
> have to go with a scissors lift; a couple of years ago I started looking
> at lifts for my old place of employment, and discovered that these
> particular models tend to be EXTREMELY heavy (to the point I was afraid
> my stage wouldn't support it, especially over the traps).
>=20
> If you can get by with an outriggerless model that doesn't need to be
> moved at height, I wholeheartedly recommend the Genie IWP line.  The 20'
> version can be purchased with a basket extension that allows you to move
> the basket out from the mast an additional 26" to get over tall scenery
> or extend your reach at working height a few extra feet...
>=20
> I ended up buying the IWP 20 with the outreach option; with delivery it
> came in to just under $5000.

First things first:
No one should EVER be working at height in a theatre alone.  EVER.

With two people in the theatre, a genie becomes an option because one perso=
n
is ground crew and the other can get pushed around -- if you buy a model
with outriggers and don't mind that you're crossing Genie's established
safety protocol line by floating the outriggers.  (The person in the basket
should take a drop line up with them -- hint hint Wayne Rasmussen!)

I purchased a Genie for NYU's Dep of Music.  My constraints included a
particular narrow doorway (31") that had to be accessed from a tight
stairwell -- so I needed something narrow and maneuverable.  I also needed
to use the genie at the edge of the apron, up against walls, etc -- so I
needed something stable without outriggers.  I needed something that could
squeeze between linesets and get a person 20 feet up.  I needed something
with onboard power.

I chose the IWP 20' with narrow outreach basket, AC model.  Excellent
machine.  The kids don't like getting it in and out of the theatre, but at
least it can be done -- and the maintenance staff borrow it all the time
(proof of a good choice!)  They also don=B9t like that you can't pump the
machine onto its wheels and roll around someone at height -- me, I like the
built-in safety.  A small price to pay for a Genie with no outriggers that
can store neatly in a closet.  They also bitch when I point out that DC
models exist that allow you to go up several times without being plugged
into a wall -- only a vague sense of unease with the idea of mixing student=
s
with lead-acid batteries in a lawsuit-conscious university environment made
me order the AC version.

By the way, I've seen older models that you can, indeed, go up and down and
roll around with the outriggers removed -- these models lacked the internal
safety switches in the outrigger boxes.  I'm not saying you should search
for one of these old models or anything; I'm pointing out that Genie builds
its models to protect life and limb.  When you circumvent safeties, or take
advantage of the less well-designed older models' weaknesses, you are
violating OSHA standards, common sense, and tempting Murphy.

Of course it goes without saying that a Genie is not a one-person machine a=
s
no-one should ever be working at height alone in a theatre. ;)

That post was entirely too long, sorry.


------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-21250610 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21250610 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <2aa3b29e2777ed1cf056f7810af876c2 [at] email.arizona.edu>
Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien)
From: Mark O'Brien <marko [at] email.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Boombox suggestions
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:34:47 -0700

Years ago,  I worked in a theatre in Baltimore that had one outlet in 
the shop that all the tools ran better, faster, and stronger.   After 
burning a skill-saw up, it was discovered that this outlet, while not 
on 220 was wired onto a "wild leg' and it spit out about 160V

Oops!

Mark O'Brien
Opera Technical Director
University of Arizona, School of Music
Tucson, AZ
520/621-7025
520/591-1803 Mobile


On Mar 22, 2005, at 9:23 AM, patrick_kevin [at] colstate.edu wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> The theatre department had a fun electrical experience while we were
> away at USITT last week.  During the course of the week, four boomboxes
> in four different outlets in two different adjacent rooms stopped
> working, or emitted smoke and then stopped working.  It turns out, some
> electrician had accidentally wired the basement of the building to 240v
> instead of 120v.  Nice, eh?  The problem has been rectified, but now I
> get to shop for replacement boomboxes.  Anyone have something new or
> old, that has stood up to dance and drama rehearsals, plays CD-RW's and
> perhaps MP3 or WMA cd's as well, with an auxiliary input?  Something
> that is loud enough for dance, and strong enough for years of use, and
> good enough for the sound designer to playback during rehearsals?  I'm
> looking in the $100-$300 range - no pro equipment is going into the
> hands of student rehearsals with very little oversight.
> Thanks,
> \<
>
> Kevin Patrick
> Assistant Professor of Theatre
> Columbus State University
> 706.568.0248
> patrick_kevin [at] colstate.edu
> theatre.colstate.edu


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:39:18 -0500
From: Stephen Litterst <slitterst [at] ithaca.edu>
Subject: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien)
Message-id: <42404A36.DDCE6F49 [at] ithaca.edu>
Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts
References: <list-21250610 [at] prxy.net> <list-21251326 [at] prxy.net>

Mark O'Brien wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------
  After
> burning a skill-saw up, it was discovered that this outlet, while not
> on 220 was wired onto a "wild leg' and it spit out about 160V

This is the second time in less than a week I've heard a reference to
"wild leg" power.  (I think that should have won the "Stump the
Rigger" prize based on the look on Uncle Bill's face)  Can someone
explain what this is and how you get an odd voltage out of it?

Thanks,

Steve Litterst
-- 
Stephen C. Litterst
Technical Supervisor
Ithaca College
Dept. of Theatre Arts
607/274-3947
slitterst [at] ithaca.edu

------------------------------

Message-Id: <s2400558.002 [at] ac3.nesd.k12.pa.us>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:45:02 -0500
From: "LES LIND" <lindl [at] nesd.k12.pa.us>
Subject: Re: Boombox suggestions

Although Ican't give you a specific brand, what I try to do when
shopping for a boombox is to pick it up. If it's heavy usually the
speakers have heavier magnets in them. We bought my son a Sony years ago
and it was the best sounding box we ever owned. He still has it. My wife
bought one for school and it was very light. Couldn't get much volume
out of it. I know it's not scientific but that's my story and I'm
sticking to it.

Les Lind, TD
NHS Dramatics
Northeastern High School
Manchester, PA



>>> patrick_kevin [at] colstate.edu 3/22/05 11:23 AM >>>
For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see
<http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

The theatre department had a fun electrical experience while we were 
away at USITT last week.  During the course of the week, four boomboxes

in four different outlets in two different adjacent rooms stopped 
working, or emitted smoke and then stopped working.  It turns out, some

electrician had accidentally wired the basement of the building to 240v

instead of 120v.  Nice, eh?  The problem has been rectified, but now I

get to shop for replacement boomboxes.  Anyone have something new or 
old, that has stood up to dance and drama rehearsals, plays CD-RW's and

perhaps MP3 or WMA cd's as well, with an auxiliary input?  Something 
that is loud enough for dance, and strong enough for years of use, and

good enough for the sound designer to playback during rehearsals?  I'm

looking in the $100-$300 range - no pro equipment is going into the 
hands of student rehearsals with very little oversight.
Thanks,
\<

Kevin Patrick 
Assistant Professor of Theatre 
Columbus State University 
706.568.0248 
patrick_kevin [at] colstate.edu 
theatre.colstate.edu

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:55:23 -0500
Subject: Cost of expendables
From: "C. Dopher" <brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
Message-ID: <BE65B82B.172E3%brooklyn [at] dopher.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21229263 [at] prxy.net>

This is in reply to the threads on gel strings and lamps.

When I order rental gear, I expect working lamps in them, of course, and
order two spare lamps of each type per 15 instruments.  For birdies, I order
a replacement lamp FOR EACH unit.

Once those lamps are done, I believe the cost of further lamps is now firmly
in the theatre's hands.  Lamps are expendables and the fact that rental
shops even include working lamps at all is something of a wonder to me.
Lamp cost is enormous!

When ordering littlelites... Don't forget to order a spare lamp for them,
too!

Gel:  obviously, cut media is expendable and -- seems to me -- solely the
fiscal responsibility of the user.  I've never been able to rent scrollers
with strings -- I have to buy them or bring my own.  As long as I'm buying,
I go ahead and spec the colors I want.  I always spec the first and last
colors on the string to be either clear or a light frost, partly because of
lessons learned below.

Interesting story:  A couple years ago, I've got six scrollers in the air
for a dance concert.  For whatever reason, somebody decided they must have
theatrical lighting for their freaking vocal rehearsal class (in between
runs of the concert) and the teacher knew how to turn on the lights -- "1
thru 250  [at]  Full"  Yup.  And, apparently, he had also pulled the power cord
going to the scrollers in order to plug in a boom box.  Before he turned on
the lights.

Crew came in the next day to find the lights STILL BURNING.  And... Since
the scrollers were still in the R90 frame -- well, I wasn't happy.  Only two
of the scrolls were shot (heat shield saved the other four) and replacements
were ordered.  

But the replacements a) didn't match each other and b) didn't match the
first four!  The electrician didn't even check them before loading them!  So
for the next two concerts, I had to write specific dimmer profiles for those
two scrollers to get all the scrollers to work together as a group.  Now we
have 12 scrollers.  The additional six were ordered correctly.

For the next concert I'm catering to the lowest common denominator and
stipulating a) side-by-side string comparisons and replacement of strings
that are worn, burned, or nonconforming, b) hard power to scrollers to be
run to an inaccessible outlet (dimmer can't be spared), and c) I'm writing
the audience-exit look to have the scrollers in the first frame.  I will
probably also spend my time during hang lining up all the DMX equipment and
testing it and loading the scrolls myself.

Cris Dopher, LD



------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-21251672 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21250610 [at] prxy.net> <list-21251326 [at] prxy.net> <list-21251672 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <5411649262e1533dd0112f74ee194e16 [at] email.arizona.edu>
Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien)
From: Mark O'Brien <marko [at] email.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:19:04 -0700

In some older services, ( had one here in Tucson)  there is a three 
phase service  that is 220 between any of the 3 phases, 115 between A 
or C and Ground or Neutral.  The voltage between phase B and G or N  
seems to be anywhere from 150 - 200V

Motors love it, I guess it gives them an extra kick or something.   The 
correct panel makes it impossible to use single pole breakers in the 
high leg.  That said, if one were to have another distro coming off  as 
3 phase breaker some of that joy juice could get out to the edison 
outlets.

Why?  I don't know. But it is out there.


Mark O'Brien
Opera Technical Director
University of Arizona, School of Music
Tucson, AZ
520/621-7025
520/591-1803 Mobile


On Mar 22, 2005, at 9:39 AM, Stephen Litterst wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Mark O'Brien wrote:
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>   After
>> burning a skill-saw up, it was discovered that this outlet, while not
>> on 220 was wired onto a "wild leg' and it spit out about 160V
>
> This is the second time in less than a week I've heard a reference to
> "wild leg" power.  (I think that should have won the "Stump the
> Rigger" prize based on the look on Uncle Bill's face)  Can someone
> explain what this is and how you get an odd voltage out of it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve Litterst
> -- 
> Stephen C. Litterst
> Technical Supervisor
> Ithaca College
> Dept. of Theatre Arts
> 607/274-3947
> slitterst [at] ithaca.edu


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:27:18 -0500
From: Richard Wolpert <richw [at] unionconnector.com>
Subject: RE: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
In-reply-to: <list-21251672 [at] prxy.net>
Message-id: <KIEIJNECPAAGNDKNCFBHAEHIDMAA.richw [at] unionconnector.com>

CAUTION!!  Wild leg work is not something for anyone but a qualified
electrician to deal with. A "wild" or "high" or "bastard" leg is one of the
phases you will find in a 3-phase panelboard that is fed from a "delta"
transformer. If you're already confused, then DEFINITELY get an
electrician!!!  The voltages from two of the legs on an open delta system
will be 120V., phase to neutral. In the panelboard, these are usually the A
and C phases. The third leg, if it has a center tap, will be 208V. phase to
neutral. This will usually the B or center bus in a panelboard. This third
leg is the "high" or "wild" leg. It should be marked with an orange wire or
tape, and care needs to be taken when dealing with it. If you think a shock
from a standard 120V. circuit hurts, then imagine taking a spark from a
208V. line.

Why does the high leg exist?  That's a subject that would take a lot more
time and space than we have here. Suffice to say that it is useful in
certain industrial applications and for power transmission. If you're in a
space that has this high leg and there is no need for the 208V. line, then
it may be a good idea to get a transformer installed to step it down to
120V. on all three legs. Again, get a qualified electrician in to do the
work. This is something that is common, and they'll know what to do. Like
the bumper sticker says "WIRING IS NOT A HOBBY"

Richard A.Wolpert
President
Union Connector Co., Inc.
40 Dale Street
West Babylon, NY  11704
Ph: 631-753-9550 ext. 204
Fx: 631-753-9560
richw [at] unionconnector.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Stephen
Litterst
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 11:39 AM
To: Stagecraft
Cc: Mark O'Brien
Subject: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Mark O'Brien wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------
  After
> burning a skill-saw up, it was discovered that this outlet, while not
> on 220 was wired onto a "wild leg' and it spit out about 160V

This is the second time in less than a week I've heard a reference to
"wild leg" power.  (I think that should have won the "Stump the
Rigger" prize based on the look on Uncle Bill's face)  Can someone
explain what this is and how you get an odd voltage out of it?

Thanks,

Steve Litterst
--
Stephen C. Litterst
Technical Supervisor
Ithaca College
Dept. of Theatre Arts
607/274-3947
slitterst [at] ithaca.edu



------------------------------

From: "Klyph Stanford" <klyphstanford [at] earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:44:43 -0500
In-Reply-To: <list-21253677 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <20050322173903.55FC599E4 [at] mailrelay.t-mobile.com>

My memory may be a little fuzzy, but I believe we are talking about three
phase delta, which is indeed intended for motors.  One leg is running at a
higher voltage, and IIRC, this is to open the brake on the motor.  

I just makes em fit where they will work, I don't wire em.

Klyph Stanford
 
336.575.7235
 
"Let's go get drunk on the light once more."
Georges Seurat
-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Mark
O'Brien
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 12:19 PM
To: Stagecraft
Cc: Mark O'Brien
Subject: Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

In some older services, ( had one here in Tucson)  there is a three 
phase service  that is 220 between any of the 3 phases, 115 between A 
or C and Ground or Neutral.  The voltage between phase B and G or N  
seems to be anywhere from 150 - 200V

Motors love it, I guess it gives them an extra kick or something.   The 
correct panel makes it impossible to use single pole breakers in the 
high leg.  That said, if one were to have another distro coming off  as 
3 phase breaker some of that joy juice could get out to the edison 
outlets.

Why?  I don't know. But it is out there.


Mark O'Brien
Opera Technical Director
University of Arizona, School of Music
Tucson, AZ
520/621-7025
520/591-1803 Mobile


On Mar 22, 2005, at 9:39 AM, Stephen Litterst wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Mark O'Brien wrote:
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>   After
>> burning a skill-saw up, it was discovered that this outlet, while not
>> on 220 was wired onto a "wild leg' and it spit out about 160V
>
> This is the second time in less than a week I've heard a reference to
> "wild leg" power.  (I think that should have won the "Stump the
> Rigger" prize based on the look on Uncle Bill's face)  Can someone
> explain what this is and how you get an odd voltage out of it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve Litterst
> -- 
> Stephen C. Litterst
> Technical Supervisor
> Ithaca College
> Dept. of Theatre Arts
> 607/274-3947
> slitterst [at] ithaca.edu




------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1de.37bb75e2.2f71b4fe [at] aol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:50:54 EST
Subject: Re: Email address harvesting

In a message dated 22/03/05 02:52:07 GMT Standard Time, 
stagecraft2005 [at] mckernon.com writes:

> I realized recently that I was suddenly getting more spam than usual, and
>  took a minute to see which of my email addresses was being hit.
>  
>  To my total surprise, it was stagecraft2004 [at] mckernon.com, an address I use
>  exclusively for the stagecraft list! I cancelled my name and subscribed
>  under a new name, which isn't terrible, but annoying nonetheless.
>  
>  So fellow listers, beware - it looks like someone has been harvesting our
>  email addresses...:(

There are other strange things which happen occasionally, too. I sometimes 
get bounce messages, with the usual 'this address has permanent fatal errors'. 
The trouble is, IT'S MY OWN ADDRESS! I don't send e-mail to myself, So I'm 
baffled. Any thoughts?


Frank Wood

------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050322095022.029453e0 [at] localhost>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:56:53 -0800
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <list-21254744 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21253677 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-21254744 [at] prxy.net>

At 09:44 AM 3/22/2005, you wrote:
>My memory may be a little fuzzy, but I believe we are talking about three
>phase delta, which is indeed intended for motors.  One leg is running at a
>higher voltage, and IIRC, this is to open the brake on the motor.

Actually, all three legs are identical, if you look at them from the 
perspective of a motor or the generator.  The problem is grounding.  A 
3-phase motor or generator doesn't have a ground reference, one is added 
for safety.  How you do this gives you the Y or Delta configurations.  Both 
are compromises.

BTW, homes in the USA are NOT normally fed with 120V as everyone 
thinks.  It's 240 with the center tap grounded.  Drawing a lot of current 
off one leg of the 120V will cause the other leg to go UP in voltage due to 
the drop over the ground/neutral line (a short on one leg can actually blow 
out stuff on the other leg before the breaker goes).

Fun with transformers.


----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523  USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886
fax:  +1 408 356-4659
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

From: Harold Hallikainen <harold [at] hallikainen.com>
Subject: Re: Email address harvesting
Reply-To: harold [at] hallikainen.com
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 09:59:09 -0800
Message-Id: <20050322175909.216CC5815A [at] hosting4.userservices.net>

Spammers use harvested addresses in both the to and from fields of outgoing=
=0D
emails. I get LOTS of bounce messages for emails I never sent.=0D
http://www.spamcop.net does a nice job taking apart spam headers, sending=
=0D
complaints to the mail and web servers used, and developing a block list fo=
r mail=0D
servers that are used largely for spam. I use their services. It's interest=
ing to=0D
watch my sendmail logs. Every few minutes there is another email rejected e=
ither=0D
because the sender's domain name fails DNS lookup or because the server is=
=0D
blacklisted. If the server is blacklisted, a reject message is sent with a =
link=0D
to the blacklist page. Between that and SpamAssassin, most of my incoming s=
pam is=0D
rejected.=0D
=0D
Note that email harvesting is illegal under CANSPAM. The "Honeypot Project"=
 is=0D
working on prosecution of harvesters.=0D
=0D
Harold=0D
=0D
On Tue Mar 22  9:50 , FrankWood95 [at] aol.com sent:=0D
=0D
>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>=0D
>---------------------------------------------------=0D
>=0D
>In a message dated 22/03/05 02:52:07 GMT Standard Time, =0D
>stagecraft2005 [at] mckernon.com writes:=0D
>=0D
>> I realized recently that I was suddenly getting more spam than usual, an=
d=0D
>>  took a minute to see which of my email addresses was being hit.=0D
>>  =0D
>>  To my total surprise, it was stagecraft2004 [at] mckernon.com, an address I =
use=0D
>>  exclusively for the stagecraft list! I cancelled my name and subscribed=
=0D
>>  under a new name, which isn't terrible, but annoying nonetheless.=0D
>>  =0D
>>  So fellow listers, beware - it looks like someone has been harvesting o=
ur=0D
>>  email addresses...:(=0D
>=0D
>There are other strange things which happen occasionally, too. I sometimes=
 =0D
>get bounce messages, with the usual 'this address has permanent fatal erro=
rs'. =0D
>The trouble is, IT'S MY OWN ADDRESS! I don't send e-mail to myself, So I'm=
 =0D
>baffled. Any thoughts?=0D
>=0D
>=0D
>Frank Wood=0D
=0D
=0D

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <197.3b1e7b54.2f71b88c [at] aol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:06:04 EST
Subject: Re: Charged for gelstring damage

In a message dated 22/03/05 05:30:44 GMT Standard Time, 
gregpersin [at] comcast.net writes:

> Yes, but as others have said it is an expendable expense that should be in
>  your shows lighting budget. Most companies charge you for the gelstring
>  seperately. 
>  
>  > 
>  > We all know gel has a finite lifespan.  My question is, how many weeks of
>  > regular use is it reasonable to expect a gelstring to last?

It depends on many things. On of them is the exact optical design and set-up. 
As you all know, there are two sepatate optical systems in a profile. One 
collects the light from the filament, and directs it through the gate towards the 
lens system. The other projects an image of the gate. Sometimes the first 
just happens to put a focussed image of the filment in the plane of the colour 
frame. Since this includes all the IR, such luminaires are great burners-up of 
gels. I've seen this, on dusty gels: a perfect image of the filament on the gel.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <a9.6fd6711c.2f71b9de [at] aol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:11:42 EST
Subject: Re: Stage Expo photos

In a message dated 22/03/05 12:27:24 GMT Standard Time, gbierly [at] dejazzd.com 
writes:

> > I'm in the geeky one with the beard.
>  
>  Doesn't that describe a lot of us Theater Professionals? (me included)

I don't quite know how to define 'geeky', but certainly a majority of our LDs 
wear beards, as I do. SDs are usually clean shaven.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: "Sam Fisher" <Sam [at] FisherTheatrical.com>
Subject: RE: Cost of expendables (keeping classes from burning lamps)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:12:35 -0500
In-Reply-To: <list-21252570 [at] prxy.net>
Message-ID: <auto-000021255855 [at] prxy.net>

>snip

"Interesting story:  A couple years ago, I've got six scrollers in the air
for a dance concert.  For whatever reason, somebody decided they must have
theatrical lighting for their freaking vocal rehearsal class (in between
runs of the concert) and the teacher knew how to turn on the lights -- "1
thru 250  [at]  Full"  Yup.  And, apparently, he had also pulled the power cord
going to the scrollers in order to plug in a boom box.  Before he turned on
the lights."

So when this situation exists, and it does in many venues, find a hidden
place to disconnect the DMX signal so that between shows those with keys
can't get the light board to work.

Sam Fisher



------------------------------

From: "Jack Morones" <jmorones [at] saddleback.edu>
Subject: RE: florida pyro -  fire fly
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:15:29 -0800
Organization: Saddleback College
Message-ID: <002701c52f0b$21a1ba40$6500a8c0 [at] SCJACKLT>
In-Reply-To: <list-21082844 [at] prxy.net>

"J.S. Marsh special effects" has used these types of flame projectors.
They are based in Southern California, but do events all over the world.

You can contact Jeff Marsh at (909) 238-8191.

Jeff really knows his stuff.  Great guy.

-Jack


Jack R. Morones
Production Manager
McKinney Theatre



-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of
IAEG [at] aol.com
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 5:22 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: florida pyro - fire fly


For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

anyone with knowledge /  reference to a Pyro company in Florida that has
or 
has access to "Fire Flies" or any similar remotely triggered propane
fueled 
flame generators ? 

if so, , please contact me off list, 

thanks in advance, 


very best,

Keith Arsenault

IAEG -  International Arts & Entertainment Group 
Tampa, Florida


------------------------------

Subject: RE: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:17:37 -0600
Message-ID: <71D0296313DCB24C93FE62A0CA7B49CA423B86 [at] adminmail4.ui.uillinois.edu>
From: "Flowers, Curt" <cjflower [at] uillinois.edu>


----------
Jerry Durand commented:
BTW, homes in the USA are NOT normally fed with 120V ...  It's 240 with
the center tap grounded.  Drawing a lot of current off one leg of the
120V will cause the other leg to go UP in voltage due to=20
the drop over the ground/neutral line (a short on one leg can actually
blow out stuff on the other leg before the breaker goes).
----------------

Interesting! It appears that incandescent light bulbs don't last long in
my environment. And near new fluorescent fixtures have been failing. My
one leg measure 125v the other 123v. Would the apparent short life of
bulbs be indicative of this unbalanced leg situation?

Thanks
	Curt, Illinois



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:20:35 -0500
From: "Frank E. Merrill" <Lamplighter [at] tcon.net>
Reply-To: "Frank E. Merrill" <Lamplighter [at] tcon.net>
Message-ID: <489665115.20050322132035 [at] tcon.net>
Subject: Re[2]: Charged for gelstring damage
In-Reply-To: <list-21213294 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21210849 [at] prxy.net> <list-21211289 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-21213294 [at] prxy.net>

Hello !

Monday, March 21, 2005, yBarney Simon wrote:

> if a lamp failed, he would have the crew replace it with one of his
> inventory, tag the instrument, then swap the burned out lamp back
> into the unit (reclaiming his replacement),before sending the unit
> back to the rental shop.

Although there is no practical way to prove it, I have had customers
whom I'd suspected of swapping my good lamps with their burned out
ones before returning rented units to me.  One of those customers
inadvertently tipped their hand when they bought several instruments
similar to those they had been renting for years.  I asked if they'd
like to buy spare lamp bulbs and was startled when they declined to
buy spares and even buy original lamps for their new instruments.  I
asked the kid that was placing the order if he was sure he didn't
wantto order lamps for their new instruments and he replaied
cheerfully:  "Nah, we've already got the lamps we need."  I then asked
if the lamps were in boxes, and he said "You mean they come in boxes?"

Too funny...I later accused the department head of the moderate
pilfering of lamp bulbs out of the instruments they had rented, and he
grinned, sheepishly, when he said "Well, that's why we thought we
ought to buy our new instruments from you!"

Best regards,
  Frank E. Merrill
  MERRILL STAGE EQUIPMENT
  Indianapolis
  Established 1946
  www.merrillstage.com           mailto:Lamplighter [at] tcon.net

   



------------------------------

Reply-To: <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
Cc: Lamplighter [at] tcon.net ('Frank E. Merrill')
Subject: RE: Re[2]: Charged for gelstring damage
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:27:37 -0500
Message-ID: <000301c52f0c$d64f4740$6501a8c0 [at] Dell>
In-Reply-To: <list-21256058 [at] prxy.net>

 
> Too funny...I later accused the department head of the 
> moderate pilfering of lamp bulbs out of the instruments they 
> had rented, and he grinned, sheepishly, when he said "Well, 
> that's why we thought we ought to buy our new instruments from you!"

So, he was ethical, but not honest.



------------------------------

Subject: RE: Charged for gelstring damage
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:35:06 -0800
Message-ID: <555928311F8B2943B65FC7197942C3B7323A45 [at] es1.bsdnet.wednet.edu>
From: "Storms, Randy" <rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu>

	>Randy my question to you is did you actually melt holes through the =
gel or
	>did the gel strings just fade to the point they were unusable?

In all the affected units, the seam *between* two colors melted, and =
stuck to the gel still rolled up on the spindle, preventing the scroller =
from advancing past that frame.


	>Did you notice the strings were failing or did they just die one day?

They worked perfectly up until the point of failure.

	>What color did you burn up? one color or several? Were these stock =
strings
	>that the company uses all of the time, something they had sitting =
around, or
	>special colors by request?=20

It was between two deeply saturated colors, a blue and a green.  These =
were stock "Broadway" strings that they apparently use all the time.

	>Did the rental company overnight new strings or
	>units to you?

I called them up, explained my problem, and asked them to send new =
strings.  The next day I received a complete new set of scrollers via =
FedEx.  I then drove the damaged units 100 miles (almost exactly) to =
their shop in Seattle so that we wouldn't be charged an additional =
rental fee.

	>It seems odd you got 30 days of use out of them and then they fail. =
Are you
	>sure someone didn't leave the fixtures burning when you weren't =
around?

I can't be on the stage 24/7, but I am as sure as I can reasonably be.


	>I know it's a fine line, but like Frank Merrill said you don't want to
	>charge someone for a lamp that was at the end of it's life and about =
to die
	>anyway, but if four lamps came back shattered you would probably =
consider
	>that damage.

I rented eight scrollers, put them all into identical fixtures, all =
focused the same, and patched them to a single submaster.  All eight =
units were used simultaneously for the entire show - all up, all down.  =
The dimmer intensities were uniform for all eight.  However, after  20 =
shows, half were damaged and half were fine.




------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <6a.51ac8939.2f71c004 [at] aol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:37:56 EST
Subject: Re: Boombox suggestions

In a message dated 22/03/05 16:35:30 GMT Standard Time, 
marko [at] email.arizona.edu writes:

> Years ago,  I worked in a theatre in Baltimore that had one outlet in 
>  the shop that all the tools ran better, faster, and stronger.   After 
>  burning a skill-saw up, it was discovered that this outlet, while not 
>  on 220 was wired onto a "wild leg' and it spit out about 160V

I still don't understand how "wild legs" can happen. In the UK, three-phase 
supplies reach the consumer as star connected. Five wires, the three phases, 
neutral, and earth. Phase-to-neutral, 230V; phase-to-phase, 380V. No other 
possibilities exist, without special installations. The same in France, except that 
you have to provide your own earth connection.

Guesswork suggests a three-phase delta connection, with one phase earthed. It 
seems to be an US custom to treat earth and neutral as interchangeable.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: "Jack Morones" <jmorones [at] saddleback.edu>
Subject: vectorworks moving light symbols
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 10:42:51 -0800
Organization: Saddleback College
Message-ID: <002801c52f0e$f45117d0$6500a8c0 [at] SCJACKLT>

My version of VW spotlight does not have symbols for ETC revolution
moving lights.

Does anyone know of a location to download this symbol? 

Thanks a bunch.

-Jack

Jack R. Morones
Production Manager
McKinney Theatre



------------------------------

Message-ID: <4240688D.61DF5855 [at] cybercom.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:48:45 -0500
From: Dale Farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
Organization: The  fuzz in the back of the fridge. 
Subject: Re: Boombox suggestions
References: <list-21252060 [at] prxy.net>



LES LIND wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Although Ican't give you a specific brand, what I try to do when
> shopping for a boombox is to pick it up. If it's heavy usually the
> speakers have heavier magnets in them. We bought my son a Sony years ago
> and it was the best sounding box we ever owned. He still has it. My wife
> bought one for school and it was very light. Couldn't get much volume
> out of it. I know it's not scientific but that's my story and I'm
> sticking to it.

    I go the other way for boomboxes.  They are an expendable item,
too easily broken or stolen.  I buy whatever is in the markdown bin
at the local department store or remnants store.   That way when
someone breaks or steals it, I am not out very much cash.   I'll also
do things like paint them in fluorescent colors and engrave on the case
something along the lines of: Stolen from Columbus State University
theater department.
    Also buy a couple at a time, and keep the spares locked away in
a very secure location, and one spare in the spares locker that all the
staff have keys too.

    --Dale



------------------------------

Message-ID: <42406933.DA77F3C4 [at] cybercom.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:51:31 -0500
From: Dale Farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
Organization: The  fuzz in the back of the fridge. 
Subject: Re: Boombox suggestions
References: <list-21256425 [at] prxy.net>



FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> In a message dated 22/03/05 16:35:30 GMT Standard Time,
> marko [at] email.arizona.edu writes:
>
> > Years ago,  I worked in a theatre in Baltimore that had one outlet in
> >  the shop that all the tools ran better, faster, and stronger.   After
> >  burning a skill-saw up, it was discovered that this outlet, while not
> >  on 220 was wired onto a "wild leg' and it spit out about 160V
>
> I still don't understand how "wild legs" can happen. In the UK, three-phase
> supplies reach the consumer as star connected. Five wires, the three phases,
> neutral, and earth. Phase-to-neutral, 230V; phase-to-phase, 380V. No other
> possibilities exist, without special installations. The same in France, except that
> you have to provide your own earth connection.
>
> Guesswork suggests a three-phase delta connection, with one phase earthed. It
> seems to be an US custom to treat earth and neutral as interchangeable.
>
> Frank Wood

    Frank.  Power companies, like many other people, do things differently in
other countries and regions.  Write that in the palm of your hand so you will
remember it.

    --Dale



------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <30.6ee3b450.2f71c357 [at] aol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:52:07 EST
Subject: Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)

In a message dated 22/03/05 17:25:29 GMT Standard Time, 
richw [at] unionconnector.com writes:

> It should be marked with an orange wire or
>  tape, and care needs to be taken when dealing with it. If you think a shock
>  from a standard 120V. circuit hurts, then imagine taking a spark from a
>  208V. line.

Not fatal. I've had them from 240V lines. OK, you take your hand away pretty 
quick, and meybe speak a few profane words. But I have a pretty dry skin. 
Those of us who don't need to take more care. 

Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1f6.6148fed.2f71c482 [at] aol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 13:57:06 EST
Subject: Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)

In a message dated 22/03/05 17:58:03 GMT Standard Time, 
jdurand [at] interstellar.com writes:

> Actually, all three legs are identical, if you look at them from the 
>  perspective of a motor or the generator.  The problem is grounding.  A 
>  3-phase motor or generator doesn't have a ground reference, one is added 
>  for safety.  How you do this gives you the Y or Delta configurations.  
Both 
>  are compromises.

You are confusing ground and neutral. They are not the same thing.

Frank Wood

------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050322104649.029a38e8 [at] localhost>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:06:03 -0800
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <list-21255997 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21255997 [at] prxy.net>

At 10:17 AM 3/22/2005, you wrote:
>Interesting! It appears that incandescent light bulbs don't last long in
>my environment. And near new fluorescent fixtures have been failing. My
>one leg measure 125v the other 123v. Would the apparent short life of
>bulbs be indicative of this unbalanced leg situation?

Yes, probably.  You can also play tricks with this center-tapped 
power.  You are allowed (in normal non-dimmer connections) to share a 
neutral between both legs.  If you have two heavy-current 120V devices, you 
can connect one between each leg and the neutral.  When they're both on at 
the same time, very little current flows through the neutral and you save a 
few cents/hour on not having the power loss in the neutral.

If you ever get a broken ground/neutral connection, putting a heavy load on 
one leg will drive the other close to 240V.  Fire time.


----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523  USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886
fax:  +1 408 356-4659
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

Message-Id: <s24026f6.088 [at] ac3.nesd.k12.pa.us>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:08:30 -0500
From: "LES LIND" <lindl [at] nesd.k12.pa.us>
Subject: Re: Boombox suggestions

Ok ya got me there... I've never painted a boombox. If I knew it was
going to be abused or stolen I'd probably go the cheap route as well.


Les Lind, TD
NHS Dramatics
Northeastern High School
Manchester, PA



>>> dale [at] cybercom.net 3/22/05 1:48 PM >>>
For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see
<http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------



LES LIND wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see
<http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Although Ican't give you a specific brand, what I try to do when
> shopping for a boombox is to pick it up. If it's heavy usually the
> speakers have heavier magnets in them. We bought my son a Sony years
ago
> and it was the best sounding box we ever owned. He still has it. My
wife
> bought one for school and it was very light. Couldn't get much
volume
> out of it. I know it's not scientific but that's my story and I'm
> sticking to it.

    I go the other way for boomboxes.  They are an expendable item,
too easily broken or stolen.  I buy whatever is in the markdown bin
at the local department store or remnants store.   That way when
someone breaks or steals it, I am not out very much cash.   I'll also
do things like paint them in fluorescent colors and engrave on the
case
something along the lines of: Stolen from Columbus State University
theater department.
    Also buy a couple at a time, and keep the spares locked away in
a very secure location, and one spare in the spares locker that all
the
staff have keys too.

    --Dale



------------------------------

Message-ID: <42406E57.7C98EE19 [at] cybercom.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 14:13:28 -0500
From: Dale Farmer <dale [at] cybercom.net>
Organization: The  fuzz in the back of the fridge. 
Subject: Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)
References: <list-21255997 [at] prxy.net>



"Flowers, Curt" wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> ----------
> Jerry Durand commented:
> BTW, homes in the USA are NOT normally fed with 120V ...  It's 240 with
> the center tap grounded.  Drawing a lot of current off one leg of the
> 120V will cause the other leg to go UP in voltage due to
> the drop over the ground/neutral line (a short on one leg can actually
> blow out stuff on the other leg before the breaker goes).
> ----------------
>
> Interesting! It appears that incandescent light bulbs don't last long in
> my environment. And near new fluorescent fixtures have been failing. My
> one leg measure 125v the other 123v. Would the apparent short life of
> bulbs be indicative of this unbalanced leg situation?
>
> Thanks
>         Curt, Illinois

    That is probably a factor.  THat voltage level is, IIRC, within spec,
although
just barely.  ( Without going and checking references.  Remember that US
power spec is 120VAC nominal, not absolute. )  Power companies will
adjust the voltage taps on their transformers to bring the delivered power
to nominal level for all the customers, which means that customers at the
end of the street next to the transformer get 125 volts, and the customers
way down at the end of the wire get 110 volts or so.
    Add in changing demand and you will get voltage sags and jumps.  Do
you notice your kitchen lights dim for a moment when the refrigerator
starts up?  That's a demand based voltage sag.  Perhaps your neighbor
used to have electric heat and just installed a fossil fuel furnace. That
removal of load will increase the average voltage on your street.  The
other fellow next door just installed central air conditioning and a chiller

to keep his outdoor pool nice and cool in the summer time.  This
increase in load will drop the average voltage during warm weather.
    This is a much more complex issue and I'm handwaving lots of stuff.
As for your bulbs burning out, my experience is that many of the cheap
fluorescent fixtures have a rather short half-life, and don't stand up to
extremes that they should be designed and built to cope with.  There
are also other factors like vibration and ambient temperature that will
severely shorten bulb life.

    --Dale



------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050322203100.016ecba0 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 20:31:00
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook

>The
>point system was arrived at after much wailing and gnashing of teeth.  Lots
>of discussion within and outside the committee.

Ya should been there.  Watching the discussion about the font size
(including the fact that it now doubled as a vision test to weed out
oldsters like me) was a sight to see!  
						; >
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				MON AZ

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050322204217.016ecba0 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 20:42:17
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Re: Surfboard

>It's eight feet and glassy, dude....

OK, I wsas doing just fine with the surfboard discussion until this came
up.  Now I have physical urges that I can do nothing about, being six and a
half hours to the nearest surf, and eight to the nearest surf that doesn't
suck (Gulf surf is just work).  I've tried to get my ya-yas from
windsurfing, but that just doesn't do it.  Anywho, I have a tri-skegger
shorty in the garage (that hasn't seen wax in fifteeen years) and a giant
windsurf board and no wind.  Windsurfers are monsters (at least the
beginner types) and would sort of emulate the older longboards and take a
huge amount of cantilevered force.  I could set mine up on sawhorses and
have three or four people stand on the span.
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				MON AZ

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

Message-ID: <000801c52f18$aac190e0$0100a8c0 [at] tricia>
From: "CrewCall" <crewcall [at] tiscali.it>
References: <list-21255997 [at] prxy.net> <list-21257089 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Ratchet box wrench\spanner
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 19:52:23 -0000

Hi One and all,

Be trying to buy a ratchet box wrench\spanner,the type that has the
revisable head so it's 4 sizes,(god I hope someone understands me) so
basically you have 4 ratchet spanner in one.The guy in the shop only
had the set like normal spanners 2 sizes per spanner.any-ways the
question is there a special name for this type,or anyone know where to
by one from uk would be but anywhere else will do.

Thanks
Chris



------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050322205056.016ecba0 [at] pop.west.cox.net>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 20:50:56
From: CB <psyd [at] cox.net>
Subject: Re: [Show-Control] Stage Expo photos

I'm getting nothing.  
"Operation timed out when trying to contact www.jdurand.no-ip.org"
				Chris "Chris" Babbie
				Location Sound
				MON AZ

Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment.  Rates
negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment...

------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050322111426.029ad588 [at] localhost>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:17:24 -0800
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Stage Expo photos

If you have any problems getting to the photos, my DI-624 router has 
decided to start rebooting itself.  D-Link suggests doing a CRASH RECOVERY 
and loading older firmware.  Hopefully this will be stable shortly, our 
office depends on this router working.

----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523  USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886
fax:  +1 408 356-4659
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050322110642.029a3c00 [at] localhost>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 11:10:21 -0800
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <list-21256824 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21256824 [at] prxy.net>

At 10:57 AM 3/22/2005, you wrote:

>You are confusing ground and neutral. They are not the same thing.

In the USA the neutral is tied to ground both at the "fuse" box and at the 
power transformer on the pole.  Our residential mains feed here consists of 
the two legs (240V between them) and a ground wire, it doesn't even HAVE a 
neutral.

Due to the center-tapped nature of our power here, you have to be VERY sure 
your neutral is securely tied to ground.



----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523  USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886
fax:  +1 408 356-4659
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:19:13 -0500
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE65E7F1.5A03%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21244864 [at] prxy.net>

Peter has the right of it folks.  This is a beginning.  The Council is
indeed investigating other certifications and certificates.  (I can speak
with authority on this as I sit on that Council)  As the industry grows and
it's needs grow, so will the programs.

Thanks
Bill
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html



on 3/22/05 9:46 AM, Scheu Consulting Services at peter [at] scheuconsulting.com
wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> Richard Bakos wrote:
> 
>> If this is for only the upper tier then what good is the
>> certification?  
> 
> ...and...
> 
>> This does no good to any one.
>> What is needed is a test standard ( and the study materials to
>> go with ) 
>> that we can train members to and have them end up as "Certified"
>> riggers.  As others have posted the time required to even qualify to
>> take the test will take a lifetime in some locals.
> 
> That's what the handbook is for. It tells you what will be tested. Pretty
> detailed, actually. It's all in there. It appears from your comments that
> you may not have read it yet...
> 
> I don't want to speak for the ETCP council, but it is my understanding that
> the ETCP Council is in the process of identifying and evaluating which
> existing programs and training courses would qualify to "teach to" the
> certification "body of knowledge". Please keep in mind that the rigging test
> in November is a mere baby step in a whole industry wide certification
> process. There will be growing pains.
> 
> Yes, there will be certifications in other disciples (i.e. electrical
> skills). Also, of much more general interest, there is a process in place to
> provide "Essential Skills" certification, that would cover far more people
> than a certification in a particular discipline. You really should go to the
> ETCP website and look closely at the material there to get a good overview
> of the whole program and process. And if you still have questions or
> concerns, you should contact the ETCP council directly (that would be Mr.
> Sapsis, among others). This IS an open process
> 
> Mat Goebel wrote:
> 
>> Is there a forum or something similar where this standards are discussed
> while they are being developed and open to public comment and review?
> 
> The ETCP certification process is separate from ESTA's Technical Standards
> Program. ETCP will certify people's skills and abilities. ESTA/TSP is
> developing standards that cover materials, equipment, use, and design. In
> both cases, however, the process is open and you are invited to make
> comments and/or join the process. See the ESTA and ETCP websites for details
> as to how to make "official" comments and/or participate.. The more the
> merrier!!!
> 
> Frankly, griping on the list may make one feel better, and some WILL listen
> and try to address your concerns when they meet to discuss these things. But
> you need to be personally proactive and get involved in the process. Even if
> it's only to go to directly to ESTA/ETCP and voice your concerns there,
> instead of this forum. You're more likely to be heard there than here.
> 
> Peter Scheu
> 
> Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
> www.scheuconsulting.com
> Tel: 315.422.9984
> fax: 413.513.4966
> 
> 
> 


------------------------------

Message-ID: <20050322202424.71352.qmail [at] web14121.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:24:24 -0800 (PST)
From: June Abernathy <jea00321 [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Charged for gelstring damage


>Hey all - we rented eight scrollers for six weeks
>for our run of "Anything Goes".  Four weeks in we
>discovered that four of the eight =
>units had melted gelstrings, making them unusable. 
>The rental company quickly shipped us new units to
>finish the run, but we have now been =
>notified that we are responsible for $315 in damages.

>We did nothing unusual with these scrollers, and
>were certainly not negligent in their use.  Should
>gelstring burnout be considered normal wear and tear
>on a long run like that?

>Cheers,
>-- r.

>Randy Storms


Well, I wouldn't consider MELTING to be normal wear
and tear after only 4 weeks of a run. We run into a
semantics issue here - you consider 6 weeks a long
run, while from my perspective on a touring show, that
is not a very long time at all. We typically change
out gel strings about once a year, unless some issue
like fading, damage, or huge dirt build up makes it
necessary to change them sooner. We do, however, use
heat shield in every scroller. Heavy, expensive Rosco
IR heatsheild. So I can't really directly compare our
usage.

There are a lot of variables, of course. How saturated
the colors are, how long the lamp is up and at what
level, ventilation, and the bench focus of a given
lamp, for starters. Fading is normal. A little
darkening is normal. Melting is kind of extreme.
Melting 4 out of 8 new strings in 30 days would
certainly get my attention as being unusual.

Were the gel strings new when you got them? Did you
check them when you got them? Did you pay for them
separately? (This is kind of standard - unusual if you
were not charged separately for the media, even if it
wasn't a custom color mix). I take it you didn't order
any spare gel strings? And since they sent you entire
new units rather than just new strings, does this mean
that the units with the melted strings were not
working at all, or just that you are unfamiliar with
how to string them?

In the future, I'd suggest using heat shield and
paying attention to how long your scroller units are
sitting up in one color - particularly a saturated
color. Were they up in some kind of work light cue,
for instance? Sitting up for an hour long preset? Even
that shouldn't really cause massive meltdown, but it
can contribute.

On the face of it, it sounds like asking for an
additional $315 doesn't sound particularly out of
line. Particularly if you not only had melted gel
strings, but subsequent unusuable units. 



June Abernathy
IATSE #321 (Tampa, FL)
FOH Electrician
The Lion King National Tour (Gazelle)


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ 

------------------------------

Message-ID: <424081D7.3070507 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:36:39 -0500
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Reply-To: Rees [at] fredonia.edu
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook
References: <list-21257490 [at] prxy.net>

Chris,
At the meeting in Toronto, I inquired if there was an age cutoff.  Bill 
Sapsis replied that there was not and even I would not be 
disenfranchised if I qualified. ;)
Steve

CB wrote:
[snip]
> Ya should been there.  Watching the discussion about the font size
> (including the fact that it now doubled as a vision test to weed out
> oldsters like me) was a sight to see!  
> 						; >
> 				Chris "Chris" Babbie


------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050322124545.02a0d530 [at] localhost>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:46:51 -0800
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: [Show-Control] Stage Expo photos
In-Reply-To: <list-21257907 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21257907 [at] prxy.net>

At 12:50 PM 3/22/2005, you wrote:
>I'm getting nothing.
>"Operation timed out when trying to contact www.jdurand.no-ip.org"


Try again, I think the router is working now.  Great time to find out 
D-Link routers have two modes..."working perfectly" and "constantly rebooting".


----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523  USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886
fax:  +1 408 356-4659
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050322124953.029f3f38 [at] localhost>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:51:29 -0800
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: [Show-Control] Stage Expo photos
In-Reply-To: <list-21257907 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21257907 [at] prxy.net>

At 12:50 PM 3/22/2005, you wrote:
>I'm getting nothing.
>"Operation timed out when trying to contact www.jdurand.no-ip.org"

I might mention that you should use the REFRESH button on your browser if 
you have problems, this address goes to the Mac in our office and the IP 
address changed when the router crashed.  That's why it's at a "no-ip.org" 
address, they track the IP address changes.



----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523  USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886
fax:  +1 408 356-4659
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 12:54:22 -0800
Subject: Re: Ratchet box wrench\spanner
From: James Feinberg <feinberg [at] sandiego.edu>
In-Reply-To: <list-21257889 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <914932F7-9B14-11D9-AFAD-00039367B7D4 [at] sandiego.edu>

Are you describing the LightSpeed wrench?
http://roadietools.com/lightspeed.html

--jamesf

On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 11:52 AM, CrewCall wrote:
> Be trying to buy a ratchet box wrench\spanner,the type that has the
> revisable head so it's 4 sizes,(god I hope someone understands me) so
> basically you have 4 ratchet spanner in one.The guy in the shop only
> had the set like normal spanners 2 sizes per spanner.any-ways the
> question is there a special name for this type,or anyone know where to
> by one from uk would be but anywhere else will do.
>
> Thanks
> Chris
>
>


------------------------------

Message-ID: <42408B16.1020800 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:16:06 -0500
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Reply-To: Rees [at] fredonia.edu
Subject: Re: [Show-Control] Stage Expo photos
References: <list-21257907 [at] prxy.net> <list-21258851 [at] prxy.net>

Jerry,
It worked for me.  To my right with black hat is Don Guido from 
Binghamton, NY.
Steve

Jerry Durand wrote:
> Try again, I think the router is working now.  Great time to find out 
> D-Link routers have two modes..."working perfectly" and "constantly 
>[snipped]


------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-21255856 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21255856 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <90c264f019e3ab85f02b8ccaacff39ff [at] dejazzd.com>
From: Greg Bierly <gbierly [at] dejazzd.com>
Subject: Re: Cost of expendables (keeping classes from burning lamps)
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:22:40 -0500

I ran into a similar situation over the summer.  I had the scrollers up 
and unplugged them at the wall.  Cheerleaders came in and decided to 
rehearse onstage and someone knew how to turn the console on.  I do the 
same thing now and unplug the DMX (or unpatch the scroller fixtures)
Greg Bierly
Technical Director
Hempfield HS


------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-21257866 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21257866 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <4efe3bd10b5068693ea4c2f379e4dad2 [at] dejazzd.com>
From: Greg Bierly <gbierly [at] dejazzd.com>
Subject: Re: Surfboard
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 16:33:01 -0500

OK this is very weird.  How many replies to the surfboard post have 
there been?  This is the first one I have seen and I was told there was 
at least one other sent.  I checked my Spam mailbox and nothing there.  
If there were other posts could someone take it upon themselves to 
forward any responses off-list to me.

BTW I did check the archives but I was not able to access any messages 
from this month as usual.  Sigh.

Thanks
Greg

>> It's eight feet and glassy, dude....
>
> OK, I wsas doing just fine with the surfboard discussion until this 
> came
> up.  Now I have physical urges that I can do nothing about, being six 
> and a
> half hours to the nearest surf, and eight to the nearest surf that 
> doesn't
> 	Chris "Chris" Babbie


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:38:11 -0600
Subject: Re: Cost of expendables (keeping classes from burning lamps)
From: Greg Persinger <gregpersin [at] comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BE65EC63.AABE%gregpersin [at] comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-21259407 [at] prxy.net>

Greg Bierly wrote:

> I ran into a similar situation over the summer.  I had the scrollers up
> and unplugged them at the wall.  Cheerleaders came in and decided to
> rehearse onstage and someone knew how to turn the console on.  I do the
> same thing now and unplug the DMX (or unpatch the scroller fixtures)

I had a client who had the same issues. We wrote a macro that parked all of
the dimmers to 0% that he didn't want others to use. Of course this was
about 90% of his rig. This way they (the unauthorized users) could feel
happy as they got more fixtures then the standard "work" lights but couldn't
burn his whole rig.

Anyone who called him to complain that they could only make a few lights
work off the console was "busted" for unauthorized use of the stage
lighting. Anyone who was a trained operator knew how to "unlock" the console
either by the un-park macro he wrote or manually.

He has also written a basic console patch with only the work light dimmers
in it that he loads when appropriate.

Greg Persinger
Vivid Illumination

Greg [at] Vividillumination.com



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 15:42:31 -0600
Subject: Re: Surfboard
From: Greg Persinger <gregpersin [at] comcast.net>
Message-ID: <BE65ED67.AAC4%gregpersin [at] comcast.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-21259551 [at] prxy.net>

> If there were other posts could someone take it upon themselves to
> forward any responses off-list to me.

Greg,

You have mail.


Greg Persinger
Vivid Illumination

Greg [at] Vividillumination.com



------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-21251157 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21251157 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <4bcd50138362aef6866f8b58a23f4301 [at] nyu.edu>
From: Mike Voytko <mv35 [at] nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: What is the Best Genie Lift to buy
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:40:28 -0500

We looked at JLG's DVL driveable lifts, but our theater (on the 5th 
floor) was not rated for a 2000 lb. unit. Even if it was, I don't think 
our old freight elevator would have survived :-)

Instead, we went with a JLG 15AMI lift. The 15' model has no 
outriggers, weighs about 800 lbs. empty, extendable basket option 
(*very* handy, and the gull-wing basket entry is nice too). Best of 
all, no annoying foot-pump action like the Genie IWPs--it uses only a 
single foot brake connected to an interlock switch.

We now own two and like them both very much--A great option if a 
15-foot platform height is enough.

HTH,
Mike V.

--
Mike Voytko
Lighting & Sound Supervisor
TSOA Theatrical Production
New York University
<mike.voytko [at] nyu.edu>


------------------------------

Message-ID: <003801c52f30$9cc10bc0$0202a8c0 [at] laptop>
From: "Ian Cunningham" <mailinglist [at] techie.f9.co.uk>
References: <list-21255997 [at] prxy.net> <list-21257089 [at] prxy.net> <list-21257889 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Ratchet box wrench\spanner
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 22:43:41 -0000


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "CrewCall"
Subject: Ratchet box wrench\spanner


> Hi One and all,
>
> Be trying to buy a ratchet box wrench\spanner,the type that has the
> revisable head so it's 4 sizes,(god I hope someone understands me) so
> basically you have 4 ratchet spanner in one.The guy in the shop only
> had the set like normal spanners 2 sizes per spanner.any-ways the
> question is there a special name for this type,or anyone know where to
> by one from uk would be but anywhere else will do.

You're looking for a quad spanner and you can get them from Flints in London

http://www.flints.co.uk/acatalog/Flints_Online__Quad_Spanner_108.html

has 13mm (M8), 17mm (M10) ,19mm (M12) and 21mm (scaff)

Not cheap but its a quality tool that you'll find hard to break. - their
podgers are damn near indestructable

Flints catalogue is a goldmine of useful theatrical gubbins

 Ian Cunningham
Solus Technical Services



------------------------------

Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:53:24 -0500
From: ish [at] twcny.rr.com
Subject: Re: Email address harvesting
Reply-to: ish [at] twcny.rr.com
Message-id: <8a6e848a90be.8a90be8a6e84 [at] nyroc.rr.com>

I'm a Community Theater Actor/Director by night - Computer Security Engineer by day...

Many of these viruses/worms out there try to hide which of your friends are REALLY infected.  So they grab the victim's address book, internet cache and a number of other places.  Then they send infected payload from one address it has found - to another address that it has found.  So the actual infected person's email address never appears on the email (so recipients can't reply to the actually infected person and warn them.)

Since it grabs every email address it can find (inculding bad ones, even from pages the victim surfed to that are in the internet cache) the virus often bounces, but if it was forged to come from YOU... then you get the bounced message.

Spammers also use this trick to send out mass emails in your name (once they have harvested it, which yes under CAN-SPAM is against the law) rather than their own address (back to that hiding from the law thing again)  and they cause LOTS of bounces.



----- Original Message -----
From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Date: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 12:50 pm
Subject: Re: Email address harvesting

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>---------------------------------
> ------------------
> 
> In a message dated 22/03/05 02:52:07 GMT Standard Time, 
> stagecraft2005 [at] mckernon.com writes:
> 
> > I realized recently that I was suddenly getting more spam than 
> usual, and
> >  took a minute to see which of my email addresses was being hit.
> >  
> >  To my total surprise, it was stagecraft2004 [at] mckernon.com, an 
> address I use
> >  exclusively for the stagecraft list! I cancelled my name and 
> subscribed>  under a new name, which isn't terrible, but annoying 
> nonetheless.>  
> >  So fellow listers, beware - it looks like someone has been 
> harvesting our
> >  email addresses...:(
> 
> There are other strange things which happen occasionally, too. I 
> sometimes 
> get bounce messages, with the usual 'this address has permanent 
> fatal errors'. 
> The trouble is, IT'S MY OWN ADDRESS! I don't send e-mail to 
> myself, So I'm 
> baffled. Any thoughts?
> 
> 
> Frank Wood
> 


------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1ee.3825faf9.2f71fc6c [at] aol.com>
Date: Tue, 22 Mar 2005 17:55:40 EST
Subject: Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)

In a message dated 22/03/05 19:08:15 GMT Standard Time, 
jdurand [at] interstellar.com writes:

> If you ever get a broken ground/neutral connection, putting a heavy load on 
>  one leg will drive the other close to 240V.  Fire time.

As I have said, I don't understand US power distributions. To use your 
terminology, ground and neutral are two different things. Neutral is the star point 
of a star connected three-phase supply. This is usually grounded at the 
sub-station, and nowhere else. UK colour code black (soon to change to blue). Ground 
is green/yellow stripes.

They have different purposes. The neutral carries the out-of-balance current: 
the ground is there to make RCDs work, or to blow fuses. They are NOT 
interchangeable.

Frank Wood

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End of Stagecraft Digest #338
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