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For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Stagecraft Digest, Issue #340

 1. Re: [Show-Control] Stage Expo photos
    by Villem Teder <vteder [at] interlog.com>
 2. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net>
 3. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
 4. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
 5. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by "Delbert Hall" <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com>
 6. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by "Ehrenberg, Steven" <StevenEhrenberg [at] clearchannel.com>
 7. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
 8. Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)
    by Richard Wolpert <richw [at] unionconnector.com>
 9. Re: earth and neutral
    by "Thomas F. Brubaker" <brubaker+ [at] pitt.edu>
10. speaking of rigging (drafting standards?)
    by "Alex M. Postpischil" <apost [at] olemiss.edu>
11. Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)
    by Brian Munroe <bpmunroe [at] gmail.com>
12. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
    by "Cyr, Dale" <Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com>
13. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by "Scheu Consulting Services" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
14. Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
15. Re: Email address harvesting
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
16. Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
17. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by Mark O'Brien <marko [at] email.arizona.edu>
18. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
    by "Scheu Consulting Services" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
19. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net>
20. List gathering
    by "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
21. Re: earth and neutral
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
22. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
23. Re: ETCP Handbook
    by "Scheu Consulting Services" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
24. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
25. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
    by "Cyr, Dale" <Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com>
26. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
27. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
    by Christopher Haas CEHAAS <CEHAAS [at] uncg.edu>
28. Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
29. ETCP Certification (was:ETCP Handbook)
    by Michael Heinicke <mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net>
30. Re: Email address harvesting (hiding from)
    by Barney Simon <barney [at] josephchansen.com>
31. Re: List gathering
    by Barney Simon <barney [at] josephchansen.com>
32. Re: ETCP Certification
    by "Scheu Consulting Services" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
33. Re: ETCP Certification
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
34. Rigging Software
    by "Delbert Hall" <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com>
35. Re: ETCP Certification (was:ETCP Handbook)
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
36. Re: ETCP Certification (was:ETCP Handbook)
    by Michael Heinicke <mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net>
37. USITT pics
    by "richard j. archer" <rja10 [at] cornell.edu>
38. Re: Rigging Software
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
39. plotters
    by Joseph Lott <stagecraft [at] healylott.com>
40. Re: speaking of rigging (drafting standards?)
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
41. Re: Rigging Software
    by Michael Heinicke <mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net>
42. ETCP
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
43. Re: Rechargeables
    by "Ian Cunningham" <mailinglist [at] techie.f9.co.uk>
44. Re: plotters
    by "Mt. Angel Performing Arts" <admin [at] mtangelperformingarts.com>
45. Re: Rigging Software
    by Brian Munroe <bpmunroe [at] gmail.com>
46. Temporary US curtain ideas needed
    by MissWisc [at] aol.com
47. Re: Rigging Software
    by "Delbert Hall" <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com>
48. Re: Rigging Software
    by Michael Heinicke <mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net>
49. Re: List gathering
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
50. Re: plotters
    by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
51. Re: plotters
    by "Clare Adams" <cadams [at] csf.edu>
52. BOOK for Learning BASIC ELECTRICAL was: 240/120 balancing
    by MissWisc [at] aol.com
53. Re: Temporary US curtain ideas needed
    by "Cyr, Dale" <Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com>
54. Where can I access the archives and a Marley question
    by Al Fitch <fitchal [at] yahoo.com>
55. automation info.
    by Jared Fortney <jared.fortney [at] gmail.com>
56. Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question
    by Stephen Litterst <slitterst [at] ithaca.edu>
57. Re: automation info.
    by "Chris Warner" <bearz2 [at] cox.net>
58. Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question
    by MissWisc [at] aol.com
59. Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question
    by Brian Munroe <bpmunroe [at] gmail.com>
60. Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
61. Re: Email address harvesting (hiding from)
    by Adam Janzen <adam.janzen [at] gmail.com>
62. Re: Rigging Software
    by Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
63. Re: Email address harvesting (hiding from)
    by Noah Price <stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net>
64. Re: Rigging Software
    by "Delbert Hall" <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com>
65. Archives (was Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question)
    by Noah Price <stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net>
66. Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question
    by barney <barney [at] JosephCHansen.com>
67. Re: ETCP Handbook - Who to contact
    by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com
68. Re: Rigging Software
    by Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
69. Re: Rigging Software
    by StevevETTrn [at] aol.com
70. Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question
    by Mike Brubaker <mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com>
71. Solar Death ray mark II
    by Herrick Goldman <Herrick [at] HGLightingDesign.com>
72. Way OT: Looking for a certain candy
    by "Andy Leviss" <Andy [at] DucksEchoSound.com>

*** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject
*** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to
*** one message subject in each reply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050323062107.007ea9d0 [at] mail.interlog.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 06:21:07 -0500
From: Villem Teder <vteder [at] interlog.com>
Subject: Re: [Show-Control] Stage Expo photos

I'm the bearded guy with glasses, third from stage left in the front row,
just upstage of Jerry.

Villem Teder

Toronto

------------------------------

Message-ID: <42417448.108 [at] fuse.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:51:04 -0500
From: Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net>
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook
References: <list-21258317 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-21258317 [at] prxy.net>

Bill Sapsis wrote:

> Peter has the right of it folks.  This is a beginning.  The Council is
> indeed investigating other certifications and certificates.  (I can speak
> with authority on this as I sit on that Council)  As the industry grows and
> it's needs grow, so will the programs.
> 
> Thanks
> Bill

  OK, let me ask this question in another way...

What, in the opinion of Mr. Sapsis et.al, should be the 
areas that are restricted to only 'certified' riggers?

Since it looks like these guys will be very few and far 
between, especially outside the coasts and major venue 
areas, will there be enough guys qualified to do that stuff, 
or enough stuff to keep those guys busy?

At this point it looks to me like we're developing a 
licensing scheme for Formula 1 drivers when we should be 
worrying about getting the drunks off the road.

Stuart


------------------------------

Message-ID: <42417485.1000908 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:52:05 -0500
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Reply-To: Rees [at] fredonia.edu
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook
References: <list-21262452 [at] prxy.net>

I think mine is a subtle shade of mauve.
Steve

CB wrote:[snipped]
  Had this been an actual situation, you would have
> been told where to go and what color handbasket you'd be in.
> 				Chris "Chris" Babbie
> 				Location Sound




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:13:00 -0500
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE66E39C.5A91%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21286506 [at] prxy.net>

Stuart.  Let me see if I can shed some light on the subject.

We've identified the top third as the likely candidates for certification.
These are high steel guys and rigging supervisors.  The points system is
there to help prevent the inexperienced and not-quite-ready-for-prime-time-
riggers  from essentially wasting their money by attempting to take a test
they are not ready for yet.  This will not be an easy test.

And, to use your drunk driver imagery, we're not attempting to weed out the
drunks.  This is not a police action.  We're attempting, for the very first
time, to quantify the skill level of those who do this work on a regular
basis.  We're looking to identify the good guys.

Yes, I know there are part time folks out there who will feel somewhat
disenfranchised.  I wish there was a way of covering all the bases and
making everyone happy, but it's just not realistic.  To make this first
Certification viable, fair and accurate, we needed to identify one group and
only one group.  A test for this group combined with a test for a lesser
experienced group would not have had any significance to it at all.

The Essential Skills program will help identify the skill levels needed for
the mid range rigger folks and will provide the training.  One of the
results of the Essential Skills program is that we will have a better
trained workforce that will provide a larger number of candidates who will
qualify for, and have a better chance of passing, the Certification test.

I've said it before in other ways, and so have Peter and other members of
the program.........Patience.  It won't happen overnight.  Some of us old
pharts may not be around to see the final flowering of this program, but
we're here planting the seeds.  As long as the program is supported, and all
evidence says that it will be, the end result should be a smarter, stronger
and safer workforce.

Zat help?
Bill S.

www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html






on 3/23/05 8:51 AM, Stuart Wheaton at sdwheaton [at] fuse.net wrote:

> OK, let me ask this question in another way...
> 
> What, in the opinion of Mr. Sapsis et.al, should be the
> areas that are restricted to only 'certified' riggers?
> 
> Since it looks like these guys will be very few and far
> between, especially outside the coasts and major venue
> areas, will there be enough guys qualified to do that stuff,
> or enough stuff to keep those guys busy?
> 
> At this point it looks to me like we're developing a
> licensing scheme for Formula 1 drivers when we should be
> worrying about getting the drunks off the road.









------------------------------

Message-ID: <BAY104-F334D26580A2BA04C2BB340C24F0 [at] phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <list-21286506 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Delbert Hall" <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:21:57 -0500

Stuart - I think you are trying me make more of this certification than it 
really is (not that what you want is wrong).  According to the ETCP home 
page,  "Personnel certification is the voluntary process by which a 
nongovernmental organization grants recognition to an individual who has 
demonstrated certain abilities, skills and knowledge."  This is the purpose 
of the ETCP.  No more - no less.   If you want a program that improves 
safety by training riggers how to properly rig, well look somewhere else.  
From what was said in Toronto, ETCP is prohibited from doing this.  They 
"may" in the future  "approve" training programs that are developed and 
conducted by others, but ETCP is not about training, it is about recognizing 
people who meet the qualifications and who pass their exam.

My statements above are based on what I have read on the ETCP web site and 
the presentation at USITT.  To find out more, I suggest you contact Katie 
Geraghty the ETCP Certification Director.  Her contact info is:
Tel: 212-244-1505
Fax: 212-244-1502
kgeraghty [at] esta.org

-Delbert

Delbert L. Hall
423-773-HALL (4255)



>From: Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net>
>Reply-To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
>To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
>Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook
>Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:51:04 -0500
>
>For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>---------------------------------------------------
>
>Bill Sapsis wrote:
>
>>Peter has the right of it folks.  This is a beginning.  The Council is
>>indeed investigating other certifications and certificates.  (I can speak
>>with authority on this as I sit on that Council)  As the industry grows 
>>and
>>it's needs grow, so will the programs.
>>
>>Thanks
>>Bill
>
>  OK, let me ask this question in another way...
>
>What, in the opinion of Mr. Sapsis et.al, should be the areas that are 
>restricted to only 'certified' riggers?
>
>Since it looks like these guys will be very few and far between, especially 
>outside the coasts and major venue areas, will there be enough guys 
>qualified to do that stuff, or enough stuff to keep those guys busy?
>
>At this point it looks to me like we're developing a licensing scheme for 
>Formula 1 drivers when we should be worrying about getting the drunks off 
>the road.
>
>Stuart
>



------------------------------

Subject: RE: ETCP Handbook
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:34:08 -0600
Message-ID: <95E1F758C14A0248B42D6FC9D67C7C3201F763C8 [at] CCUMAIL14.usa.ccu.clearchannel.com>
From: "Ehrenberg, Steven" <StevenEhrenberg [at] clearchannel.com>

As an ETCP council member, I want to toss in my 2 cents on this subject.
The outline of what the test covers is in the handbook. This outline is
extremely detailed; so detailed it includes how many questions will be
addressing each category listed in the outline, allowing the candidate
to see the weight the test writers (subject matter experts - thanks to
Peter Scheu and many others for giving so much time to this) feel should
be given to each area covered by the test. This outline is a study
guide. We on the council hope that people will tailor courses, whether
in academia or in professional rigging seminars, to teach to this
information. The Council is developing the mechanism to recognize
programs that do teach this material.
There are many reasons why it is improper for a body developing a
certification test to develop, at the same time, a course you can take
to pass that test. Think about it - "Here's the certification test, it
recognizes the top people in the field, oh by the way (wink, wink) you
can pay to take my course so you will pass" - not cool. The ETCP council
is the certifying entity, not teachers or trainers. Richard Bakos asked:
If this is for only the upper tier then what good is the certification?=20
Certification is the top end of the training process. Certification
recognizes that those who pass the test are expert in the field and an
independent third party (not you or your employers or your teachers) has
certified that this is the case. For training and teaching on more basic
levels ESTA's essential skills program is developing disciplines in all
fields. All of this is open to public comment and review, get some
information and participate. The working groups, which are developing
the bodies of knowledge in the fields, both for essential skills and for
certification are open to the public as are the groups working on the
technical standards program. A quick show of hands will find a number of
list members who give quite a bit of their time and energy to
participate in these programs. The first test is coming, more will
follow. Our industry is undergoing long overdue, systemic cultural
change. We need standards for Identifying expertise and competence.
Certification is a great way to start.
More like $2 not 2 cents.
Sorry,
Steven

Steven Ehrenberg
Director of Technical Supervision
Clear Channel Entertainment - Theatrical
Office - 917 421 5461
Mobile - 917 331 0207


------------------------------

From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:55:17 GMT
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook
Message-Id: <20050323.065549.29075.31468 [at] webmail03.lax.untd.com>


Besides, some of us 'Olde Pharts', myself included, may live longer because of a safer workplace created by the quasi-official identification of the colleagues who are safer to work with. Ultimately, we all have a choice as to whom we wish to work next to, or a furlong beneath, and it wouldn't get personal --its just business. And if it helps us 'hold the line' on Workmans Comp (or other insurance) rate increases, that alone is a valid justification. 
/s/ Richard

Some of us old pharts may not be around to see the final flowering of this program, but we're here planting the seeds.  As long as the program is supported, and all evidence says that it will be, the end result should be a smarter, stronger and safer workforce.

Zat help?
Bill S.


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:01:43 -0500
From: Richard Wolpert <richw [at] unionconnector.com>
Subject: RE: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)
In-reply-to: <list-21264823 [at] prxy.net>
Cc: LSFXCo [at] cox.net (Carson Koz Noel at LSFX Co.)
Message-id: <KIEIJNECPAAGNDKNCFBHCEIGDMAA.richw [at] unionconnector.com>

( tips hat to Koz)

Richard A.Wolpert
President
Union Connector Co., Inc.
40 Dale Street
West Babylon, NY  11704
Ph: 631-753-9550 ext. 204
Fx: 631-753-9560
richw [at] unionconnector.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Carson Koz
Noel at LSFX Co.
Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2005 10:12 PM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)

For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

The wild leg is a high volt leg from a "delta phase" wound transformer.  It
is used in an industrial application specifically for motors and HVAC.  The
high leg is primarily for the starter and brake section of the motor.  Some
older elevators also use this electrical configuration.  The higher voltage
allows the motor to start and stop better under load.

To quote Mr. Wolpert again...  Like the bumper sticker says "WIRING IS NOT A
HOBBY"

Carson "Koz" Noel, III
Light and Sound FX Co. / LSFX
5832 E. Camden Street
Tucson, AZ  85712


Koz [at] LSFXCo.com
www.LSFXCo.com


Phone - 520.419.4529
Fax - 520.296.9751


*** This communication is intended solely for the person or entity to which
it is addressed and may contain privileged and/or other confidential
information.  If you are not the intended recipient, or believe that you
have received this communication in error, please send reply to above email
address or phone.***





------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:52:32 -0500
From: "Thomas F. Brubaker" <brubaker+ [at] pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: earth and neutral
In-reply-to: <list-21256425 [at] prxy.net>
Reply-to: brubaker [at] pitt.edu
Message-id: <424190C0.5090608 [at] pitt.edu>
References: <list-21256425 [at] prxy.net>



FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote:

  >
> ...Guesswork suggests a three-phase delta connection, with one phase earthed. It 
> seems to be an US custom to treat earth and neutral as interchangeable.
> 
> 
> Frank Wood

No, not really.  I learned the hard way that when doing a power tie-in, 
having the ground and neutral wire reversed, or not bonded anywhere, 
can be just as costly as a hot-neutral reverse.

Here's two links to some recent, relevant articles about this topic.

http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_grounding_vs_bonding_2/index.html

http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_grounding_vs_bonding/index.html


Tom Brubaker
Johnstown PA USA


------------------------------

From: "Alex M. Postpischil" <apost [at] olemiss.edu>
Subject: speaking of rigging (drafting standards?)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:34:31 -0600
Message-ID: <000301c52fc6$307c26c0$ba1e4a82 [at] DHKQYC31>
In-Reply-To: <list-21261340 [at] prxy.net>

At one of the sessions at USITT I asked if there were any standards used
in drafting to donate various types of rigging, points, motors, motion
control devices, etc. The response was that nothing seems to have
evolved. Is this the general consensus of the list? If so, should we
embark on the task of trying to standardize symbols and notation for
drafting? I'm also asking this because I'm getting to the point in my
drafting class that I need to mention that aspect of drafting...

Also, while I did get my list sticker for the name badge, I was not able
to share in the peeps - I was busy drinking beer at the Wisconsin alumni
gathering!! If you had a picture of me from that night I would be
smiling!!!
:-)

-alex-

Alex M. Postpischil, Technical Director
Department of Theatre Arts
University of Mississippi
University, MS 38677
662.915.6993
662.915.5968 - fax 


------------------------------

Message-ID: <b7aa280105032309387bba6c51 [at] mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 09:38:27 -0800
From: Brian Munroe <bpmunroe [at] gmail.com>
Reply-To: Brian Munroe <bpmunroe [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)
In-Reply-To: <list-21289714 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21264823 [at] prxy.net> <list-21289714 [at] prxy.net>

Is there an "intro to power distro" book or reference material
anywhere?  Not quite a "for dummies" level, but something that
explains it in more lay-terms and less code-speak?

Thanks,

Brian Munroe
bpmunroe [at] gmail.com

------------------------------

Subject: RE: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:03:03 -0800
Message-ID: <407DF7D68DD30440B5CEB70ED234D1CF0316E36D [at] excuswa100.americas.unity>
From: "Cyr, Dale" <Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com>

Steven, Bill, et al:

thanks for your explanations of the meaning of the certification.

there is, perhaps, a element to the selection process that you could
address...

I suspect that there are several of us who could "challenge" the test.
(not to degrade the significance or difficulty of the test,
but scanning thru the topics, I didn't see very many that I would
even have to bone up on.)

but the experience requirement will likely prevent many,
who are otherwise qualified / knowledgeable / skilled / motivated /
etc.,
from having the opportunity to try.

comments?

dale cyr
Training Supervisor
IATSE Local 93



-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of
Ehrenberg, Steven
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 6:34 AM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook

As an ETCP council member, I want to toss in my 2 cents on this subject.
<snip>
The ETCP council
is the certifying entity, not teachers or trainers. Richard Bakos asked:
If this is for only the upper tier then what good is the certification?=20
Certification is the top end of the training process. Certification
recognizes that those who pass the test are expert in the field and an
independent third party (not you or your employers or your teachers) has
certified that this is the case.=20
<snip>
Steven

Steven Ehrenberg
Director of Technical Supervision
Clear Channel Entertainment - Theatrical
Office - 917 421 5461
Mobile - 917 331 0207


------------------------------

Reply-To: <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
From: "Scheu Consulting Services" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
Subject: RE: ETCP Handbook
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:12:01 -0500
Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
Message-ID: <000601c52fd3$cff21180$c9fea8c0 [at] ROXY>
In-reply-to: <list-21286506 [at] prxy.net>

Stuart Wheaton wrote:

>At this point it looks to me like we're developing a=20
>licensing scheme for Formula 1 drivers when we should be=20
>worrying about getting the drunks off the road.

Interesting analogy, but I think fundamentally flawed. Such a =
certification
as you describe might keep drunks from getting behind the wheel of a =
million
dollar Formula 1 car, filled with high octane racing fuel, where they =
could
do a lot more damage crashing into the stands filled with hundreds of =
people
than a drunk crashing into a lamppost with a Rambler. While I might not =
need
to have the local TD be certified because he only hangs one or two =
points a
year (and has demonstrated in the past that he's perfectly capable and
qualified), I certainly would want to know that the head rigger on the =
U2
tour (whom I've never met) was certified before he came in and started
hanging his show in my venue.

Think of the certification as a UL label. If your "product" (in this =
case,
your rigging skills) is going to be mass marketed and a large number of
people exposed to it, the UL label (certification) indicates that your
product has been tested by an independent organization that says "this =
meets
this standard". That doesn't mean that you can't rig up a perfectly safe
electrical effect in your shop for a particular show. Just because it
doesn't carry a UL label doesn't mean it's not safe. Certification is =
not
law, nor does it guarantee safety. It just says this person has met a
particular standard.

And, ultimately, no certification, law, regulation, or standard is going =
to
keep all the "drunks off the road". Hell, even jail doesn't do that!

Peter Scheu

Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
www.scheuconsulting.com
Tel: 315.422.9984
fax: 413.513.4966




------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <9d.5c3b1c46.2f730ba3 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:12:51 EST
Subject: Re: Wild Leg (was Re: Boombox suggestions)

In a message dated 22/03/05 23:46:01 GMT Standard Time, 
admin [at] mtangelperformingarts.com writes:

> The neutral is the GROUNDED conductor, but the GROUND is the GROUNDING
>  conductor.
>  
>  A single phase USA service is 120 -0 -120 to ground, with the neutral
>  connected to ground at the pole and one place at the service entrance.  The
>  power company supplies the two 'hot' legs and the neutral, we create a
>  ground at our service entrance or service disconnect by making an earth
>  ground and bonding it to the neutral.
>  
>  We run separated neutral and ground to all outlets - the neutral is a
>  current carrying conductor (if the main legs are unbalanced, the neutral
>  carries the difference) but the Grounding conductor (either a separate wire
>  in a  cable or the raceway in a metallic system) carries only fault 
current.

This is similar to the distribution system we know as PME (Protective 
Multiple Earth). It is occasionally found, in rural areas. Because we use a higher 
voltage distribution than you, we have no need of the centre-tapped system. ALL 
our domestic gear runs on 230V. The sub-station receives 11KV three-phase, 
transforms it down to 380V three-phase four-wire, and this is the local 
distribution. Each household gets one phase, and the neutral. The phases are split 
around, so as to achieve some degree of balance. The neutral is grounded at the 
sub-station, and nowhere else. We also have an incoming ground, usually from the 
steel wire armoured cable, and our rules require that this is kept 
scrupulously apart from the neutral.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <100.fdeab2d.2f730d08 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:18:48 EST
Subject: Re: Email address harvesting

In a message dated 23/03/05 00:04:05 GMT Standard Time, 
deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes:

> As I have e-mail addresses on our theatre web site, I tend to get a HUGE
>  amount of spam generated as a result (most of which is caught by the Yahoo
>  filters, however). Because of the way the domain is set up, if you were to
>  send anything to anything at abbeytheatre dot co dot uk, it would end up in
>  my in-box. I get quite a few messages from end-servers and spam-traps
>  telling me that something like dotty-lottie at abbeytheatre etc has been
>  spiked from their 'acceptable sender' lists, and please stop spamming them!

Too true. I have an old-fashioned solution to this problem. My address list 
is a small grey index book, with names, addresses, and telephone numbers 
written in it. Slightly more trouble for me: potentially, much less for them.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <cf.252c71d0.2f730e96 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:25:26 EST
Subject: Re: 240/120 balancing (Was: Wild Leg & was Boombox suggestions)

In a message dated 23/03/05 03:13:54 GMT Standard Time, LSFXCo [at] cox.net writes:

> The wild leg is a high volt leg from a "delta phase" wound transformer.  It
>  is used in an industrial application specifically for motors and HVAC.  The
>  high leg is primarily for the starter and brake section of the motor.  Some
>  older elevators also use this electrical configuration.  The higher voltage
>  allows the motor to start and stop better under load.

I thought that it would be that. Over here, delta stops at the sub-station. 
From there on, it's four-wire star.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-21295568 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21295568 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <2cf6fcb8407b618579286738d7a9e6f6 [at] email.arizona.edu>
Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien)
From: Mark O'Brien <marko [at] email.arizona.edu>
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:26:20 -0700

Rather I see this as a parallel to auto mechanics being ASE certified.

If you are searching a company to do rigging, one might want to look 
for someone advertising at least 1 certified rigger on staff.

If you are searching to hire riggers you may want to look for something 
like this on ones resume.

As the certification process diversifies, one might have multiple 
certifications as for specialty, ( i.e..  Air conditioning, brakes, 
fuel injection, etc.)

If you want to work on your own theatre,  (car) you don't have to have 
certification.

If you want to hire someone to do a job, you can still hire someone 
without certification.

My random thoughts...


Mark O'Brien
Opera Technical Director
University of Arizona, School of Music
Tucson, AZ
520/621-7025
520/591-1803 Mobile


On Mar 23, 2005, at 11:12 AM, Scheu Consulting Services wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Stuart Wheaton wrote:
>
>> At this point it looks to me like we're developing a
>> licensing scheme for Formula 1 drivers when we should be
>> worrying about getting the drunks off the road.
>
> Interesting analogy, but I think fundamentally flawed. Such a 
> certification
> as you describe might keep drunks from getting behind the wheel of a 
> million
> dollar Formula 1 car, filled with high octane racing fuel, where they 
> could
> do a lot more damage crashing into the stands filled with hundreds of 
> people
> than a drunk crashing into a lamppost with a Rambler. While I might 
> not need
> to have the local TD be certified because he only hangs one or two 
> points a
> year (and has demonstrated in the past that he's perfectly capable and
> qualified), I certainly would want to know that the head rigger on the 
> U2
> tour (whom I've never met) was certified before he came in and started
> hanging his show in my venue.
>
> Think of the certification as a UL label. If your "product" (in this 
> case,
> your rigging skills) is going to be mass marketed and a large number of
> people exposed to it, the UL label (certification) indicates that your
> product has been tested by an independent organization that says "this 
> meets
> this standard". That doesn't mean that you can't rig up a perfectly 
> safe
> electrical effect in your shop for a particular show. Just because it
> doesn't carry a UL label doesn't mean it's not safe. Certification is 
> not
> law, nor does it guarantee safety. It just says this person has met a
> particular standard.
>
> And, ultimately, no certification, law, regulation, or standard is 
> going to
> keep all the "drunks off the road". Hell, even jail doesn't do that!
>
> Peter Scheu
>
> Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
> www.scheuconsulting.com
> Tel: 315.422.9984
> fax: 413.513.4966
>
>
>


------------------------------

Reply-To: <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
From: "Scheu Consulting Services" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
Subject: RE: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:30:37 -0500
Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
Message-ID: <000701c52fd6$690ca3b0$c9fea8c0 [at] ROXY>
In-reply-to: <list-21295376 [at] prxy.net>

Dale Cyr wrote

>but the experience requirement will likely prevent many,
>who are otherwise qualified / knowledgeable / skilled /=20
>motivated / etc., from having the opportunity to try.
>
>comments?

Up to this point in history, most rigging skills have been passed on =
through
master/apprentice types of relationships, hence the reliance on =
experience,
I think. The point system as developed seems reasonable based on that =
basic
assumption. This may change as more programs or curricula are developed =
and
recognized that teach to the certification standard. As the needs of the
industry change, I am sure the experience requirements will change. This =
is
not a rigid process, though I grant you, it is also not a speedy one =
either.

And just because you are "knowledgeable / skilled / motivated" doesn't =
mean
that you have actually demonstrated that you know how to put those
attributes into practice on a consistent, verifiable basis.

Peter Scheu

Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
www.scheuconsulting.com
Tel: 315.422.9984
fax: 413.513.4966


------------------------------

Message-ID: <4241B827.7060400 [at] fuse.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:40:39 -0500
From: Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net>
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook
References: <list-21287664 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-21287664 [at] prxy.net>

Bill Sapsis wrote:


> Stuart.  Let me see if I can shed some light on the subject.
> 
> We've identified the top third as the likely candidates for certification.
> These are high steel guys and rigging supervisors.  The points system is
> there to help prevent the inexperienced and not-quite-ready-for-prime-time-
> riggers  from essentially wasting their money by attempting to take a test
> they are not ready for yet.  This will not be an easy test.
> 

OK, I'm coming at this from the theatre perspective, so high 
steel isn't really a concern...

I have read the pamphlet several times, even before my first 
post.  I even printed a hard copy.  Supposedly, this 
certification will make me more employable or make my 
current employer eager to pay me lots more.  That has my 
attention.

I want a definition of what rigging work experience really 
means.

If I spend a day throwing pigs on a load-in, is that 8 hours 
of rigging experience?   If I run lines for a show, is that 
rigging experience?  If I work the load-in and Clamp, tie, 
clip or otherwise attach stuff to battens, is that rigging 
work?  Can I count the time I spend carrying stuff from the 
shop to the stage?

Does hanging lighting on a system pipe count?

If I am TD in a dead-hung space, but still make things go up 
and down, can I still count it?  Does time spent designing 
or building scenery that will fly count?

I'm not scared of the test, I can learn anything if I want 
to badly enough!

> And, to use your drunk driver imagery, we're not attempting to weed out the
> drunks.  This is not a police action.  We're attempting, for the very first
> time, to quantify the skill level of those who do this work on a regular
> basis.  We're looking to identify the good guys.

I get that, I guess that I wonder whether we're safer for 
identifying the best third rather than the worst third...and 
I know that it has certain benefits for acceptance and so 
forth if this is a carrot based system.  I eagerly await the 
  'basic skills' series of tests.

And I think this is part of the fear that some employer, in 
the interests of having a reduced liability workforce will 
require this cert for anybody doing rigging.  Taking a page 
from Garrison Keillor,  "All our children are above average."

> 
> Yes, I know there are part time folks out there who will feel somewhat
> disenfranchised.  I wish there was a way of covering all the bases and
> making everyone happy, but it's just not realistic.  To make this first
> Certification viable, fair and accurate, we needed to identify one group and
> only one group.  A test for this group combined with a test for a lesser
> experienced group would not have had any significance to it at all.
>

I think the Arena world, where there are riggers, seperate 
and very distinct from other technical staff, is easy to 
sort out.  But the theatre world is not quite as clean-cut 
from where I stand.

> The Essential Skills program will help identify the skill levels needed for
> the mid range rigger folks and will provide the training.  One of the
> results of the Essential Skills program is that we will have a better
> trained workforce that will provide a larger number of candidates who will
> qualify for, and have a better chance of passing, the Certification test.
> 
> I've said it before in other ways, and so have Peter and other members of
> the program.........Patience. 

Lord, Please grant me patience...NOW!!!!

> It won't happen overnight.  Some of us old
> pharts may not be around to see the final flowering of this program, but
> we're here planting the seeds.  As long as the program is supported, and all
> evidence says that it will be, the end result should be a smarter, stronger
> and safer workforce.
> 
> Zat help?
> Bill S.

It always helps to hear the thinking of the people behind 
this kind of thing, and it helps me clarify the next bunch 
of questions.

I want to be very clear.  I am not trying to be combative. 
I think this could be a great deal, and I think I might even 
qualify.  I'm just not clear on whether you'll let me take 
the test at all.

Thank you to Bill and all the listers and non-listers who 
have devoted so much time to putting it together, and to 
helping us know what it means to us, and for (maybe) being 
willing to make it make even more sense.

Stuart



------------------------------

Message-ID: <4241B8E8.5090400 [at] fredonia.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:43:52 -0500
From: "Stephen E. Rees" <Rees [at] fredonia.edu>
Reply-To: Rees [at] fredonia.edu
Subject: List gathering
References: <list-21292839 [at] prxy.net>

Alex,
How come I was able to get to both activities?  I think you were just 
slacking. :)  I had the peeps with me at the Armadillo, too.  Sorry you 
were left out.  I will not be mailing any of them out.
Best,
Steve

Alex M. Postpischil wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> At one of the sessions at USITT I asked if there were any standards used
> in drafting to donate various types of rigging, points, motors, motion
> control devices, etc. The response was that nothing seems to have
> evolved. Is this the general consensus of the list? If so, should we
> embark on the task of trying to standardize symbols and notation for
> drafting? I'm also asking this because I'm getting to the point in my
> drafting class that I need to mention that aspect of drafting...
> 
> Also, while I did get my list sticker for the name badge, I was not able
> to share in the peeps - I was busy drinking beer at the Wisconsin alumni
> gathering!! If you had a picture of me from that night I would be
> smiling!!!
> :-)
> 
> -alex-
> 
> Alex M. Postpischil, Technical Director
> Department of Theatre Arts
> University of Mississippi
> University, MS 38677
> 662.915.6993
> 662.915.5968 - fax 



------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <9f.5b7bc986.2f731502 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:52:50 EST
Subject: Re: earth and neutral

In a message dated 23/03/05 15:53:37 GMT Standard Time, brubaker+ [at] pitt.edu 
writes:

> > Frank Wood
>  
>  No, not really.  I learned the hard way that when doing a power tie-in, 
>  having the ground and neutral wire reversed, or not bonded anywhere, 
>  can be just as costly as a hot-neutral reverse.
>  
>  Here's two links to some recent, relevant articles about this topic.
>  
>  http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_grounding_vs_bonding_2/index.html
>  
>  http://ecmweb.com/mag/electric_grounding_vs_bonding/index.html

Thank you for the links. They confirm me in my opinion that an electrician's 
trade is more complicated, in the US. 


Frank Wood

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:18:39 -0500
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE672B3F.5ABC%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21296065 [at] prxy.net>

on 3/23/05 1:40 PM, Stuart Wheaton at sdwheaton [at] fuse.net wrote:

> OK, I'm coming at this from the theatre perspective, so high
> steel isn't really a concern...
> 
> I have read the pamphlet several times, even before my first
> post.  I even printed a hard copy.  Supposedly, this
> certification will make me more employable or make my
> current employer eager to pay me lots more.  That has my
> attention.
> 
> I want a definition of what rigging work experience really
> means.
> 
> If I spend a day throwing pigs on a load-in, is that 8 hours
> of rigging experience?   If I run lines for a show, is that
> rigging experience?  If I work the load-in and Clamp, tie,
> clip or otherwise attach stuff to battens, is that rigging
> work?  Can I count the time I spend carrying stuff from the
> shop to the stage?
> 
> Does hanging lighting on a system pipe count?
> 
> If I am TD in a dead-hung space, but still make things go up
> and down, can I still count it?  Does time spent designing
> or building scenery that will fly count?
> 
> I'm not scared of the test, I can learn anything if I want
> to badly enough!


Stuart.  Rigging is rigging.  Do you really need me to sit down and define
every little job we do for you?  I'd rather not, but, in broad terms, it's
when you work with equipment...any equipment...that is involved in raising,
lowering or suspended loads over peoples heads.  So I would classify all of
the above, with the exception of hanging lights, as rigging.

> I get that, I guess that I wonder whether we're safer for
> identifying the best third rather than the worst third...and
> I know that it has certain benefits for acceptance and so
> forth if this is a carrot based system.  I eagerly await the
> 'basic skills' series of tests.

Ya know...instead of eagerly awaiting...you could get involved.
> 
> And I think this is part of the fear that some employer, in
> the interests of having a reduced liability workforce will
> require this cert for anybody doing rigging.  Taking a page
> from Garrison Keillor,  "All our children are above average."

Yeah, that could happen.  But I would imagine that the Certified Riggers
he/she was trying to hire might be asking for more money than their
non-certified counterparts.  Might give the employer a reason to re-think
his methods.

> 
> I think the Arena world, where there are riggers, seperate
> and very distinct from other technical staff, is easy to
> sort out.  But the theatre world is not quite as clean-cut
> from where I stand.

Nor from where I stand.  But we had no precedent to work with.  We took a
stand and gave it our best shot.
> 

> Lord, Please grant me patience...NOW!!!!

Get in line.
> 

> It always helps to hear the thinking of the people behind
> this kind of thing, and it helps me clarify the next bunch
> of questions.

Good.  Keep asking questions.  I'll try to keep coming up with answers.
(But I do have to get some other work done around here today)
> 
> I want to be very clear.  I am not trying to be combative.
> I think this could be a great deal, and I think I might even
> qualify.  I'm just not clear on whether you'll let me take
> the test at all.

Stuart, I can't imagine that you wouldn't qualify for the test.
> 
> Thank you to Bill and all the listers and non-listers who
> have devoted so much time to putting it together, and to
> helping us know what it means to us, and for (maybe) being
> willing to make it make even more sense.

Your welcome.  
(now can I eat my lunch?)

Be well
Bill
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html




------------------------------

Reply-To: <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
From: "Scheu Consulting Services" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
Subject: RE: ETCP Handbook
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:20:54 -0500
Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
Message-ID: <000901c52fdd$6fa5c560$c9fea8c0 [at] ROXY>
In-reply-to: <list-21295950 [at] prxy.net>

Mark O'Brien wrote:

>Rather I see this as a parallel to auto mechanics being ASE certified.
>
>If you are searching a company to do rigging, one might want to look 
>for someone advertising at least 1 certified rigger on staff.
>
>If you are searching to hire riggers you may want to look for 
>something 
>like this on ones resume.
>
>As the certification process diversifies, one might have multiple 
>certifications as for specialty, ( i.e..  Air conditioning, brakes, 
>fuel injection, etc.)
>
>If you want to work on your own theatre,  (car) you don't have to have 
>certification.
>
>If you want to hire someone to do a job, you can still hire someone 
>without certification.

DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!! DING!!!

Right you are, contestant! Johnny, tell him what he's won!...

Peter Scheu


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:27:52 -0500
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE672D68.5AC0%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21295376 [at] prxy.net>

on 3/23/05 1:03 PM, Cyr, Dale at Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com wrote:

> thanks for your explanations of the meaning of the certification.
> 
> there is, perhaps, a element to the selection process that you could
> address...
> 
> I suspect that there are several of us who could "challenge" the test.
> (not to degrade the significance or difficulty of the test,
> but scanning thru the topics, I didn't see very many that I would
> even have to bone up on.)
> 
> but the experience requirement will likely prevent many,
> who are otherwise qualified / knowledgeable / skilled / motivated /
> etc.,
> from having the opportunity to try.
> 
> comments?


We took a group of people whom we believe to be experts in the field and we
asked them.  We asked many other associations (IAAM, ICIA, for example) who
already have certification programs in different disciplines what they
thought.  What you are reading is the result of a considerable amount of
debate, discussion, wailing and gnashing of teeth and other descriptions too
horrible to mention.

Dale, if I may ask in this public forum, how long have you been in the
industry?  Please don't answer if you feel it impertinent of me.  It's just
that I think that if you look at your career closely you will see that the
requirements aren't that onerous.

And if someone is that skilled/knowledgable/qualified/motivated, I would
have to wonder how they got that way without amassing a fair number of work
hours in the discipline in question.

Hope that helps
Bill S.

www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html



------------------------------

Subject: RE: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:42:17 -0800
Message-ID: <407DF7D68DD30440B5CEB70ED234D1CF0316E36E [at] excuswa100.americas.unity>
From: "Cyr, Dale" <Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com>

LOL.

uuummm... ok, ya got me there.
I havent actually sat down to add it all up.

involved with rigging specifically?
well... more than 10 years.
but never 'on the road, full time'.


>  What you are reading is the result of a considerable amount of
> debate, discussion, wailing and gnashing of teeth and other=20
> descriptions too horrible to mention.

and please, accept my thanks for participating.
been thru that sort of process several times myself.
tough work, that.

and, regarding your "challenge" ;) to stuart:
> Ya know...instead of eagerly awaiting...you could get involved.

for those that would want to... how?


dale cyr
Training Supervisor
IATSE Local 93


Dale, if I may ask in this public forum, how long have you been in the
industry?  Please don't answer if you feel it impertinent of me.  It's
just
that I think that if you look at your career closely you will see that
the
requirements aren't that onerous.

And if someone is that skilled/knowledgable/qualified/motivated, I would
have to wonder how they got that way without amassing a fair number of
work
hours in the discipline in question.

Hope that helps
Bill S.

www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit
ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:58:14 -0500
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE673486.5AC8%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21297336 [at] prxy.net>

on 3/23/05 2:42 PM, Cyr, Dale at Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com wrote:

> and, regarding your "challenge" ;) to stuart:
>> Ya know...instead of eagerly awaiting...you could get involved.
> 
> for those that would want to... how?


There are several places to get involved.  Certification, Essential Skills
and Standards writing are the three that come to mind the quickest

Certification info   Kgeraghty [at] esta.org
Standards Writing       Kruling [at] ESTA.org
Essential Skills....I'm embarrassed to say that I'm not sure who the correct
person is.  I know that Dana Taylor is involved but not sure in what
capacity.  Check with the ESTA office  212.244.1505 and they'll let you
know.

I gotta tell you, working within the industry like this has turned out to
be, for me at least, a terribly rewarding experience.  I actually enjoy
going to meetings.  The Council meetings are phenomenal.  When I look around
the room I ask myself, if all these really good people are in here, who's
out there minding the store?

Bill S.
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html





------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-21297072 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
Message-ID: <OFE41B79AC.2DC91507-ON85256FCD.006C3222-85256FCD.006D985F [at] uncg.edu>
From: Christopher Haas CEHAAS <CEHAAS [at] uncg.edu>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:57:04 -0500

I'm sorry if this is duplicating earlier questions.  Blame it on weariness 
of trying to finish an Opera build.  Anyway, looking at the Theatre 
Entertainment Rigger exam info, it looks like it is geared more towards 
installers and system designers, than necessarily end users.  Is this a 
correct assumption?  And will there be another tier of certification, down 
the road of course, for end users like myself?  I've been working/teaching 
as a TD for the last 11 years and feel that I'm very qualified to teach, 
rig and maintain counterweight and hemp systems within my venues, but not 
ready to design and install the systems myself. 

I would have loved have been part of the working group for this 
certification, as rigging is the area I absolutely love.  However with a 
limited travel budget from the University and three kids (two in daycare) 
travel funds are extremely limited.  That doesn't mean I have been 
following it as best as I could through the website and participating in 
surveys.

I would like to thank the committee members for all this hard work on this 
project.

Chip Haas
Technical Director
Department of Theatre
The University of North Carolina at Greensboro

336-334-3891

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:01:21 -0500
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook - challenge the test?
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE673541.5AC9%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21297336 [at] prxy.net>

on 3/23/05 2:42 PM, Cyr, Dale at Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com wrote:

> uuummm... ok, ya got me there.
> I havent actually sat down to add it all up.
> 
> involved with rigging specifically?
> well... more than 10 years.
> but never 'on the road, full time'.


Doesn't need to be either of those things.  5 hours a week for 10 years gets
you 26 points.  I can't imagine that over a period of ten years you can't
come up with the right number of hours or school or whatever.  Go look under
the sofa.  I thought I saw a point or two hiding there.
<<gg>>

Bill S.
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html



------------------------------

Message-ID: <20050323200510.6802.qmail [at] web81705.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:05:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Heinicke <mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net>
Subject: ETCP Certification (was:ETCP Handbook)
Cc: peter [at] scheuconsulting.com
In-Reply-To: 6667

So far, everyone has been asking if they might qualify
to take the test. How are we to document the
experience to earn the points? 
From this point on, I could see people keeping a log
of rigging calls or something. But what about for the
first couple of years? I would expect that for some
people it would be easy. Just go back through old
calls and count the number they have been listed as
"rigger". What about the situation that Stuart (I
believe) pointed out. A TD of a small theater does a
little bit of everything, and very often there is not
any type of official call. Do we just have to estimate
what percentage of our total time was spent on
rigging?
BTW, my boss is grumpy that his undergrad and grad
degrees earn him fewer points than my undergrad in
entertainment technology. :)

Mike H

------------------------------

Message-ID: <4241CCB7.3080307 [at] josephchansen.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:08:23 -0500
From: Barney Simon <barney [at] josephchansen.com>
Subject: Re: Email address harvesting (hiding from)
References: <list-21295698 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-21295698 [at] prxy.net>


>In a message dated 23/03/05 00:04:05 GMT Standard Time, 
>deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes:
>
>  
>
>>As I have e-mail addresses on our theatre web site, I tend to get a HUGE
>> amount of spam generated as a result (most of which is caught by the Yahoo
>> filters, however). 
>>
On our company web site, I've picked up a little piece of (java) code 
that keeps our addresses from being harvested from our website.  Let's 
see if I can reproduce it without making formating problems....

<!--
    var first = 'ma';
    var second = 'il';
    var third = 'to:';
    var address = '&#98;&#97;&#114;&#110;&#101;&#121;';
    var domain = 
'&#74;&#67;&#72;&#97;&#110;&#115;&#101;&#110;&#46;&#99;&#111;&#109;';
    document.write('<a href="');
    document.write(first+second+third);
    document.write(address);
    document.write('&#64;');
    document.write(domain);
    document.write('" title="Email to Barney Simon">');
    document.write('Barney Simon<\/a>');
// -->

"var address" decodes to barney, &#64 is  [at] , and "var domain" decodes to 
jchansen.com
I have a little program that spits it out... I'll have to see if I can 
find it.

Barney Simon
JC Hansen Co.
Drapes, Drops, and Dance Floors


------------------------------

Message-ID: <4241CE84.5080602 [at] josephchansen.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:16:04 -0500
From: Barney Simon <barney [at] josephchansen.com>
Subject: Re: List gathering
References: <list-21292839 [at] prxy.net> <list-21296311 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-21296311 [at] prxy.net>


> Alex M. Postpischil wrote:
>
>> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> At one of the sessions at USITT I asked if there were any standards used
>> in drafting to donate various types of rigging, points, motors, motion
>> control devices, etc. T
>
This reminds me of the meeting I attended ?? years ago about a lighting 
instrument symbol standard.  I remember a lot about that presentation... 
none good.  The part that this specifically reminds me of is that 
someone stood up and asked "What is the standard for a 4-1/2" leko?" and 
the presenter's response was "We could not come to a conclusion so it 
will be up to the individual designer."

Barney Simon
JC Hansen Co
Drapes, Drops, and Dance Floors


------------------------------

Reply-To: <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
From: "Scheu Consulting Services" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
Subject: RE: ETCP Certification
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:17:59 -0500
Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
Message-ID: <000a01c52fe5$68dd5880$c9fea8c0 [at] ROXY>
In-reply-to: <list-21297748 [at] prxy.net>

Michael Heinicke wrote:

>So far, everyone has been asking if they might qualify
>to take the test. How are we to document the
>experience to earn the points?

This question was asked at the ETCP session at USITT. The answer (as I
understand it) is that you submit your experience (I worked "X" hours with
so-and-so on such-and-such, along with a contact/reference (usually your
supervisor) who can independently verify your claim. You don't need to
submit time sheets, etc.

When in doubt, call Katie at ETCP. She's got ALL the answers.

Peter Scheu

Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
www.scheuconsulting.com
Tel: 315.422.9984
fax: 413.513.4966




------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:34:59 -0500
Subject: Re: ETCP Certification
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE673D23.5ADB%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21298039 [at] prxy.net>

on 3/23/05 3:17 PM, Scheu Consulting Services at peter [at] scheuconsulting.com
wrote:

>> So far, everyone has been asking if they might qualify
>> to take the test. How are we to document the
>> experience to earn the points?
> 
> This question was asked at the ETCP session at USITT. The answer (as I
> understand it) is that you submit your experience (I worked "X" hours with
> so-and-so on such-and-such, along with a contact/reference (usually your
> supervisor) who can independently verify your claim. You don't need to
> submit time sheets, etc.


I would add that for someone like myself who is self employed, a list of
clients would work just as well.  For those of you who work calls regularly,
your supervisors name will work fine.  If there is no supervisor, or if you
were the supervisor, then it should be the name of someone who can verify
that you actually did what you are saying you did.
> 
> When in doubt, call Katie at ETCP. She's got ALL the answers.

Oh boy, Peter.  Now you've stepped in it.  She'll be gunning for you at the
next KC meeting.  Watch your back!
<<vbg>>

Bill S.
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html




------------------------------

Message-ID: <BAY104-F37437F8AE2F9BC0ED5ECF8C24F0 [at] phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <list-21297625 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Delbert Hall" <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com>
Subject: Rigging Software
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:55:01 -0500

OK you rigger types.  Since we have been having all this discussion on 
rigging, I thought I would share info on some free stage rigging software 
that I recently found on the web.

RiggerMeister is a free Excel spreadsheet available from ATM Fly-Ware 
(http://atmflyware.com/flyhome.html) with formulas for lots of your rigging 
needs. Click on the  "Books and Software" link on the bottom left side of 
the screen to download it.

It has a more features than the rigging module in LD Calculator, and if you 
are an Excel junkie like me, you will love to look at the formulas to see 
how it works (plus, it might help you figure out how to do some of the math 
problems on a certification exam. It is too bad that you must use a 
calculator instead of your rigging software when actually taking the exam, 
but those are the rules.

Enjoy.

-Delbert

Delbert L. Hall
423-773-HALL (4255)



------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:59:48 -0500
Subject: Re: ETCP Certification (was:ETCP Handbook)
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE6742F4.5AE1%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21297748 [at] prxy.net>

on 3/23/05 3:05 PM, Michael Heinicke at mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net wrote:

> BTW, my boss is grumpy that his undergrad and grad
> degrees earn him fewer points than my undergrad in
> entertainment technology. :)


Score one for the good guys!
Bill S.
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html



------------------------------

Message-ID: <20050323210444.97858.qmail [at] web81707.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:04:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Heinicke <mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: ETCP Certification (was:ETCP Handbook)
In-Reply-To: 6667

--- Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com> wrote:
> > BTW, my boss is grumpy that his undergrad and grad
> > degrees earn him fewer points than my undergrad in
> > entertainment technology. :)
> 
> 
> Score one for the good guys!

That's what he gets for wanting to be an actor as well
as a technician!

Mike H

------------------------------

Message-Id: <p05210600be678acdfeed [at] [132.236.252.58]>
In-Reply-To: <list-21292839 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21292839 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:10:17 -0500
From: "richard j. archer" <rja10 [at] cornell.edu>
Subject: USITT pics

>Also, while I did get my list sticker for the name badge, I was not able
>to share in the peeps - I was busy drinking beer at the Wisconsin alumni
>gathering!!
>
>
>Alex M. Postpischil, Technical Director
>Department of Theatre Arts
>University of Mississippi


Hey, I did this too.  Went to Rose Brand and ate their food, (thanks 
Roger), and met friends. Then went over to UW gathering.  Sorry List 
members.  Ever the social butterfly,

Dick A
TD, Cornell U

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:20:24 -0500
Subject: Re: Rigging Software
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE6747C7.5AED%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21298689 [at] prxy.net>

on 3/23/05 3:55 PM, Delbert Hall at flyingfx [at] hotmail.com wrote:

> (plus, it might help you figure out how to do some of the math
> problems on a certification exam. It is too bad that you must use a
> calculator instead of your rigging software when actually taking the exam,
> but those are the rules.


Just so we're clear.  A scale rule and a calculator will be required.  I
don't know yet if we will be supplying them or if you get to bring them.
But the calculator cannot be a programmable type.  The Certification
Administrators (AMP) take this part very seriously and I would not suggest
trying to get around these rules or you will find yourself on the outside
looking in.

Bill S.
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html



------------------------------

Message-ID: <4241DDCD.1020709 [at] healylott.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:21:17 -0500
From: Joseph Lott <stagecraft [at] healylott.com>
Subject: plotters

I don't recall any recent discussion of plotters -- can we revive this
perennial topic?
(I'd check the archives, but the site's down. Noah, I know you have been
working on that; I'd be willing to lend a hand if you'd like some help.)

In this case, I am shopping for multiple uses -- in addition to line
drawings like a light plot, this machine will be used for printing
posters, text, large color photographs, and other graphical uses. I am
therefore concerned about color fidelity, smoothness of text, the price
of ink, and so on. Paper size should be at least 24", roll-fed, and
possibly up to 42". Speed is not a huge issue, as this will not be used
in large volume. Budget is roughly $5000.

I have looked through the HP DesignJets, and either the 500 or 800 looks
about right. Any specific suggestions, or failing that, favorite
models/brands?

Thanks,
Joe


------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:24:36 -0500
Subject: Re: speaking of rigging (drafting standards?)
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE6748C3.5AF3%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21292839 [at] prxy.net>

on 3/23/05 11:34 AM, Alex M. Postpischil at apost [at] olemiss.edu wrote:

> At one of the sessions at USITT I asked if there were any standards used
> in drafting to donate various types of rigging, points, motors, motion
> control devices, etc. The response was that nothing seems to have
> evolved. Is this the general consensus of the list? If so, should we
> embark on the task of trying to standardize symbols and notation for
> drafting? I'm also asking this because I'm getting to the point in my
> drafting class that I need to mention that aspect of drafting...

The Rigging Working Group, of which yours truly is the chair, is the most
prolific group in the standards program.  And we're always looking for more.
If you have something you think merits a standard, bring it to my attention
and I can run it by the group.  I should warn you, however, that if you
bring it up it's pretty much expected that you will become the task group
leader to write that standard.  And *that* will require you to join the
Rigging Working Group, show up to meetings (at least 4 a year), vote on
stuff, do homework and all that jazz.  Just because it's a volunteer
organization does not mean that it's a free ride.  We have a lot of fun at
these meetings but they are indeed a lot of work.

Bill S
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html



------------------------------

Message-ID: <20050323212324.57174.qmail [at] web81703.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:23:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Heinicke <mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Rigging Software
In-Reply-To: 6667

Just an FYI for everyone. I've already found a problem
with the Excel spreadsheet. Under "D/d Ratio", the two
diamater data fields are formated as dates. I haven't
played around enough to reformat it yet.

Mike H

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:32:57 -0500
Subject: ETCP
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BE674AB9.5AFC%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21299042 [at] prxy.net>

Alrighty then.  I'm going off line for a while.  do you think it will be OK
if I don't post a response for maybe 2 or 3 hours?  Geez Louise.  I don't
think I've typed that much since my typing class in High School.

All kidding aside, I'm more than happy to answer as many questions as I can.
I figure I helped foist this thing on y'all, the least I can do is answer
your questions.  But tomorrow I have *got* to get some of my regular work
done.

And please know that i appreciate your kind words about the work that we've
done.  There have been a lot of people who worked long and hard on it.  The
SME's are one group and they're listed in the handbook.  But the members of
the Rigging Skills Working Group, the folks who laid the groundwork (pardon
the pun) for all this, aren't listed.  At some point I'm hoping to get their
names posted somewhere.

g'night Gracie.

Bill
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html





------------------------------

Message-ID: <03a701c52fef$7dc8ad80$0202a8c0 [at] laptop>
From: "Ian Cunningham" <mailinglist [at] techie.f9.co.uk>
References: <list-21114628 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: Rechargeables
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:29:59 -0000

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Gerry G." <megironda [at] att.net>
Subject: Re: Rechargeables


> OK has anyone had any experience with Ansmann rechargeable 9V or AA?
> They're cut sheet sounds like they're wonderful, real world experiences
> would be nice though...
> http://www.ansmann.de/en/index.htm?view=list&pr2id=32

Cross-posting my reply to Theatresound:

They are also re-branded by Fischer Amps: http://fischer-amps.de/index.php .

I recently bought a stack of 9V 270mAh cells + a rackmount charger + 2 plug
in chargers.

I use them with Sennheiser Evolution G1 transmitters which gives 5hrs
runtime - which is consistent between batteries (on test they all died
within 10 minutes of each other). Thats more than enough for most shows and
you just stick them in the charger overnight
I was consistently getting 8hrs+ out of Varta alkalines in the same
transmitters  - that made it a bit tight on getting 2 shows out of a set if
it was a long show

One thing   - the low battery warning now lasts less than 10 minutes (nearly
an hour on Varta alkalines)  - this is just a combination of the threshold
of the warning and the discharge curve of the cell and shouldn't be an issue
in use.

So far I'm very happy with them, they do exactly what it says on the tin.
To date  I've saved using nearly 200 batteries, thats already covered a big
chunk of the purchase price and reduced the amount of waste produced

The Fischer amps brand has been picked up by Autograph sales in London  and
a believe Autograph Sound Recording (one of the West Ends's main suppliers)
are evaluating them.
Autograph would not be selling these without being confident in the product
(they tested extensively before becoming a dealer)

Ian Cunningham
Solus Technical Services



------------------------------

Message-ID: <02f401c52fef$97d8bc60$650fa8c0 [at] veronica>
From: "Mt. Angel Performing Arts" <admin [at] mtangelperformingarts.com>
References: <list-21299235 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: plotters
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:30:52 -0800


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joseph Lott" <stagecraft [at] healylott.com>
To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 1:21 PM
Subject: plotters


> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> I don't recall any recent discussion of plotters -- can we revive this
> perennial topic?
> (I'd check the archives, but the site's down. Noah, I know you have been
> working on that; I'd be willing to lend a hand if you'd like some help.)
> 
> In this case, I am shopping for multiple uses -- in addition to line
> drawings like a light plot, this machine will be used for printing
> posters, text, large color photographs, and other graphical uses. I am
> therefore concerned about color fidelity, smoothness of text, the price
> of ink, and so on. Paper size should be at least 24", roll-fed, and
> possibly up to 42". Speed is not a huge issue, as this will not be used
> in large volume. Budget is roughly $5000.
> 
> I have looked through the HP DesignJets, and either the 500 or 800 looks
> about right. Any specific suggestions, or failing that, favorite
> models/brands?
> 
> Thanks,
> Joe

We have an HP 500PS 42" and it's been very reliable

Carla



------------------------------

Message-ID: <b7aa280105032313547caf47a5 [at] mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 13:54:16 -0800
From: Brian Munroe <bpmunroe [at] gmail.com>
Reply-To: Brian Munroe <bpmunroe [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rigging Software
In-Reply-To: <list-21299289 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21299289 [at] prxy.net>

Has anyone tried Harry Donovan's RigRight software?
http://www.riggingbooksandprograms.com/software.htm

Seems a little expensive, and no trial version available.  No screen
shots listed, so kinda hard to tell how it works.

Brian Munroe
bpmunroe [at] gmail.com

------------------------------

From: MissWisc [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1a9.3466a5da.2f73445f [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:14:55 EST
Subject: Temporary US curtain ideas needed

Tis time for my annual middle school musical. This year we're on the "stage"  
(read - platform with proscenium at end of gym) in a circa 1950s school. 
There is a main rag, but the rear curtain was removed (and from what I can tell - 
disposed of) when the bleachers were added to the upstage wall. There is still 
a hanging track with traveler hardware to hook into, but no curtain. 

I'm looking for suggestions for an inexpensive, reasonably light weight 
fabric (?)  for either single use or something that could be put up and taken down 
each year. I do not have the budget for traditional velour, nor would I want 
to leave the item up given the stage's more common use.

Ideas? Stories of what's worked? Tales of what to avoid? (Mike R. - this is 
at Holy Cross... if you know any history or know who I could call, I'd 
appreciate it!)

Many thanks!!

Kristi R-C

------------------------------

Message-ID: <BAY104-F34263AD97DB798FEAFE467C24F0 [at] phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <list-21299289 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Delbert Hall" <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rigging Software
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:16:05 -0500

Mike,

Are you ralking about cells B3 and B4 in tab labeled "9. D-d Ration"?  Mine 
are numbers, not dates.  B7 and B8 are formatted as percentages, but all the 
others are general numbers.

The spreadsheet is locked so you can't change it unless you have the 
password.

-Delbert

Delbert L. Hall
423-773-HALL (4255)



>
>Just an FYI for everyone. I've already found a problem
>with the Excel spreadsheet. Under "D/d Ratio", the two
>diamater data fields are formated as dates. I haven't
>played around enough to reformat it yet.
>
>Mike H



------------------------------

Message-ID: <20050323222302.68271.qmail [at] web81708.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 14:23:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Heinicke <mheinicke [at] sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Rigging Software
In-Reply-To: 6667

--- Delbert Hall <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com> wrote:
> Mike,
> 
> Are you ralking about cells B3 and B4 in tab labeled
> "9. D-d Ration"?  Mine 
> are numbers, not dates.  B7 and B8 are formatted as
> percentages, but all the 
> others are general numbers.


Delbert,
Those are the exact cells that I am talking about.
When I type in a number, it pops up as a date when I
advance to the next cell. I have tried whole numbers,
decimals, and fractions. They call come up as a date.
1/8 comes up as "8-JAN".
Now to just figure out why the difference between our
files. I'll drop and email to ATM soon just to see
what they have to say about it.

Mike H

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <55.6faef18d.2f734808 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:30:32 EST
Subject: Re: List gathering

In a message dated 23/03/05 20:16:39 GMT Standard Time, 
barney [at] josephchansen.com writes:

> This reminds me of the meeting I attended ?? years ago about a lighting 
>  instrument symbol standard.  I remember a lot about that presentation... 
>  none good.  The part that this specifically reminds me of is that 
>  someone stood up and asked "What is the standard for a 4-1/2" leko?" and 
>  the presenter's response was "We could not come to a conclusion so it 
>  will be up to the individual designer."

Many years ago, the CIE devised a standard set of symbols, to indicate the 
generic type of lanterns.Profile, varifocal profile, fresnel, flood and so on. I 
have always used these, annotated to say exactly what luminaire I had in 
mind. They are no good if you are planning how to load in a tight bar, but at the 
design stage, they allow you to say: "I want a profile here, a fresnel there" 
and so on.


Frank Wood

------------------------------

From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" <ladesigners [at] juno.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:33:15 GMT
Subject: Re: plotters
Message-Id: <20050323.143319.2331.40350 [at] webmail28.lax.untd.com>


We bought a NEW 4 cartridge DesignJet 100 from a retailer at a cost of $800 incl. tax + shipping. It is set up for 'D' size 24" x 36" sheets.
The default printer driver bundled with AutoCad 3D is for this machine.
The DesignJet 120 may be better for your POSTER needs for ~$1000, as it uses six colors of ink cartridges. I have never needed the warranty.
/s/ Richard

> Paper size should be at least 24", roll-fed, and possibly up to 42"  Budget is roughly $5000. I have looked through the HP DesignJets, and either the 500 or 800 looks about right. Any specific suggestions, or failing that, favorite models/brands?
> Thanks,
> Joe


------------------------------

Subject: RE: plotters
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:35:49 -0700
Message-ID: <469E256D47873149A321069F4F29CBA8E34E74 [at] csf-beta.csf.localnet>
From: "Clare Adams" <cadams [at] csf.edu>

We bought a DesignJet 450C plotter a couple of years ago, and it's been
very reliable.  Was the right price, too.  24" wide, though sometimes I
wish we had gotten the larger size.

Clare Adams
Lighting Designer
College of Santa Fe

------------------------------

From: MissWisc [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <8.64e0a1e7.2f734ea8 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:58:48 EST
Subject: BOOK for Learning BASIC ELECTRICAL was: 240/120 balancing
Cc: bpmunroe [at] gmail.com

May I recommend :

"Wiring Simplified" by H. P. Richter and W. C. Schwan  
paperback   about $10 IIRC
ISBN 0-9603294-6-3
Park Publishing, 350 Main Street, Somerset WI 54025
phone (715) 247-5076  1-800-841-0383  Fax 715-247-5062

Covers:
Safety, terminology, wire types and sizes, fuses, grounding, circuit basics, 
updating older installations, service entrance, electrical motors, and much 
more. Though aimed at home/farm wiring needs, there's enough overlap with 
theatrical to make it an excellent resource. Explains some of the code points in 
terms of "this is why and how" not just "here's the code." Has an index and 
glossary in the back. 

Great diagrams. The drawings of the guy in the "what happens if it's not 
grounded properly" section are worth the price alone! About a 10th grade reading 
level. HTH.

Kristi R-C


In a message dated 3/23/5 11:39:04 AM, bpmunroe [at] gmail.com writes:
<< Is there an "intro to power distro" book or reference material anywhere?  
Not quite a "for dummies" level, but something that explains it in more 
lay-terms and less code-speak? >>


------------------------------

Subject: RE: Temporary US curtain ideas needed
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:24:35 -0800
Message-ID: <407DF7D68DD30440B5CEB70ED234D1CF0316E36F [at] excuswa100.americas.unity>
From: "Cyr, Dale" <Dale.Cyr [at] getronics.com>

in this situation, I've used drapes that we rented=20
from the local 'trade show decorator / pipe and drape' house.

safety pin together, pretty inexpensive, very lightweight,
worked adequately for the short term.

send 'em back when your done,
and they do the laundry :)

dale cyr
Training Supervisor
IATSE Local 93


-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of
MissWisc [at] aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 2:15 PM
To: Stagecraft
Subject: Temporary US curtain ideas needed

I'm looking for suggestions for an inexpensive, reasonably light weight=20
fabric (?)  for either single use or something that could be put up and
taken down=20
each year. I do not have the budget for traditional velour, nor would I
want=20
to leave the item up given the stage's more common use.

Ideas? Stories of what's worked? Tales of what to avoid? (Mike R. - this
is=20
at Holy Cross... if you know any history or know who I could call, I'd=20
appreciate it!)

Many thanks!!

Kristi R-C

------------------------------

Message-ID: <20050323235828.79945.qmail [at] web51408.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:58:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Al Fitch <fitchal [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question
In-Reply-To: <list-21277703 [at] prxy.net>

I was going to look into the archives for my answer
but as long as I have to ask how to access the
archives, I might as well ask my marley question.

I have to remove black shoe scuff marks from the
marley (since I opened my big mouth and pointed it out
to the choreograhper).

What is the easiest, most non-toxic way to do this?  I
know pencil erasers do well on our grey marley.

Thanks,

Al Fitch

Be Kind, Smile and Have Fun.


		
__________________________________ 
Do you Yahoo!? 
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ 

------------------------------

Message-ID: <45c56d34050323160155534ba8 [at] mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:01:34 -0500
From: Jared Fortney <jared.fortney [at] gmail.com>
Reply-To: Jared Fortney <jared.fortney [at] gmail.com>
Subject: automation info.
In-Reply-To: <list-21301328 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21301328 [at] prxy.net>

For those of you looking for information on automation systems, I
thought I'd pass along a term I learned in a class.  Try searching for
"mechatronics" for information about actuators, sensors, controllers
and the like.  In addition, if your shop is looking for a good general
(industrial) reference for all things automation, I highly recommend
the book "Mechatronics : Electronic Control Systems in Mechanical and
Electrical Engineering" (ISBN: 0131216333).  It's pretty expensive for
introductory use, but it is a nice reference.

FYI.

-Jared Fortney
UC-CCM, TD&P

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:04:37 -0500
From: Stephen Litterst <slitterst [at] ithaca.edu>
Subject: Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question
Message-id: <42420415.DA4B615B [at] ithaca.edu>
Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts
References: <list-21302259 [at] prxy.net>

Al Fitch wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------- 
> I have to remove black shoe scuff marks from the
> marley (since I opened my big mouth and pointed it out
> to the choreograhper).

The ballet company for whom I worked used to do this with steel wool,
a floor buffer and a little ammonia.  Person one does a sloppy wet mop
of the floor, person two comes through with the steel wool and works
on the most troublesome spots, person three follows along with the
floor buffer and person four mops it all up.

If you're too heavy with the steel wool you will damage the floor. 
Come to think of it, it damages the floor anyway, but in my four years
there it didn't effect the performance of the floor.

I suppose you could just use a floor buffer with a coarse pad and that
would help to some degree.  Might not get the really dark scrapes,
though.

Steve Litterst
-- 
Stephen C. Litterst
Technical Supervisor
Ithaca College
Dept. of Theatre Arts
607/274-3947
slitterst [at] ithaca.edu

------------------------------

Message-ID: <020401c53007$818e0600$6401a8c0 [at] chris>
From: "Chris Warner" <bearz2 [at] cox.net>
Cc: jared.fortney [at] gmail.com (Jared Fortney)
References: <list-21301328 [at] prxy.net> <list-21302306 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: automation info.
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:22:04 -0800

Might also look under industrial automation as well.

Chris

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jared Fortney" <jared.fortney [at] gmail.com>
To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 4:01 PM
Subject: automation info.


> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> For those of you looking for information on automation systems, I
> thought I'd pass along a term I learned in a class.  Try searching for
> "mechatronics" for information about actuators, sensors, controllers
> and the like.  In addition, if your shop is looking for a good general
> (industrial) reference for all things automation, I highly recommend
> the book "Mechatronics : Electronic Control Systems in Mechanical and
> Electrical Engineering" (ISBN: 0131216333).  It's pretty expensive for
> introductory use, but it is a nice reference.
> 
> FYI.
> 
> -Jared Fortney
> UC-CCM, TD&P
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 3/23/2005
> 
> 


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.1 - Release Date: 3/23/2005


------------------------------

From: MissWisc [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <86.2496ed4b.2f73643e [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:30:54 EST
Subject: Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question
Cc: fitchal [at] yahoo.com

In a message dated 3/23/5 5:59:08 PM, fitchal [at] yahoo.com writes:
<< What is the easiest, most non-toxic way to do this?  >>

Not certain if this is recommended by the manufacturer, but I've used Soft 
Scrub cleanser and a cloth fon spots/scuffs.  Rinse well with clean water and 
dry.

Kristi R-C 

------------------------------

Message-ID: <b7aa2801050323163840cf9247 [at] mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:38:57 -0800
From: Brian Munroe <bpmunroe [at] gmail.com>
Reply-To: Brian Munroe <bpmunroe [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question
In-Reply-To: <list-21302259 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21277703 [at] prxy.net> <list-21302259 [at] prxy.net>

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:58:28 -0800 (PST), Al Fitch <fitchal [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> I have to remove black shoe scuff marks from the
> marley (since I opened my big mouth and pointed it out
> to the choreograhper).

Try the products available from Rosebrand (unless they jammed you on
soft goods rentals !)
http://www.rosebrand.com/A_Com/showprod.cfm?&DID=6&CATID=13&ObjectGroup_ID=88

Also check out the products at stagestep:
http://www2.mailordercentral.com/STAGESTEP/products.asp?dept=49

Ammonia is not recommended for vinyl floors.  This is from
flooradvice.com: "What should I clean my floor with?

When cleaning your floor use a mild neutral cleaner, such as EFS Floor
Cleaner. Do not use cleaners with ammonia or abrasives in them, as
they can permanently damage your vinyl dance floor."

Try goof-off or goo-gone, but try it on a small, offstage spot first.

Brian Munroe
bpmunroe [at] gmail.com

------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <fe.fe558bd.2f73668b [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:40:43 EST
Subject: Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question


In a message dated 3/23/05 7:05:27 PM, slitterst [at] ithaca.edu writes:

<< I suppose you could just use a floor buffer with a coarse pad and that
would help to some degree.  Might not get the really dark scrapes,
though. >>

I once had to take a Marley ( this was over 25 years ago so it was in fact a 
"real"  Marley ")  and use the WHITE side for the first time ever in a 
television studio.

Needless to say the White side was NASTY dirty from years of use of the BLACK 
side exclusively.

The television studio had a nice, clean concrete driveway to it's loading 
dock.  We laid the floor out there, half of it at a time.  Hosed it down, then 
mopped it good with non sudsing ammonia, got out a floor buffer with a medium ( 
#2 ? )  pad, and then literally hosed it off.  The warm spring time Florida 
sun dried it off in no time and the floor looked like new.



very best,

Keith Arsenault

IAEG -  International Arts & Entertainment Group 
Tampa, Florida

------------------------------

Message-ID: <4637909c0503231727356c9718 [at] mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 20:27:55 -0500
From: Adam Janzen <adam.janzen [at] gmail.com>
Reply-To: Adam Janzen <adam.janzen [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Email address harvesting (hiding from)
In-Reply-To: <list-21297789 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21295698 [at] prxy.net> <list-21297789 [at] prxy.net>

Hey,

Here's a different version if you have .asp pages...it can also easily
be converted into JavaScript too... just copy and paste the code below
into the top of the pages, or put this into a file called mail.inc and
put <!--#include file="mail.inc" --> into the top of the pages that
you have e-mail links to....

So, all you have to do is: <% call
writemail("stagecraft","theatrical.net","Stagecraft Mailing List") %>
to get a link called 'Stagecraft Mailing List' for
stagecraft [at] theatrical.net.

HTH,
Adam

<%
sub writemail(user,hostname,linktext)
response.write("<a href=" & "mail" & "to:" & user & " [at] " & hostname &
">" & linktext & "</a>")
end sub
%>

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 15:08:23 -0500, Barney Simon
<barney [at] josephchansen.com> wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> >In a message dated 23/03/05 00:04:05 GMT Standard Time,
> >deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com writes:
> >
> >
> >
> >>As I have e-mail addresses on our theatre web site, I tend to get a HUGE
> >> amount of spam generated as a result (most of which is caught by the Yahoo
> >> filters, however).
> >>
> On our company web site, I've picked up a little piece of (java) code
> that keeps our addresses from being harvested from our website.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 21:34:39 -0500
Subject: Re: Rigging Software
From: Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BE67916F.60E5%bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21300654 [at] prxy.net>

> When I type in a number, it pops up as a date when I
> advance to the next cell. I have tried whole numbers,
> decimals, and fractions. They call come up as a date.
> 1/8 comes up as "8-JAN".

I get the same "Date" results.

> Now to just figure out why the difference between our
> files. I'll drop and email to ATM soon just to see
> what they have to say about it.

    Let us know what they have to say about it.

Bruce
-- 
Bruce Purdy        
Cayuga NY USA
bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com


------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-21297789 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21295698 [at] prxy.net> <list-21297789 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <208c718bc1f93b072c66f2993342cd5d [at] theprices.net>
From: Noah Price <stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net>
Subject: Re: Email address harvesting (hiding from)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:23:29 -0800

I use three different methods in various parts of the Stagecraft site.

I'm moving the member pages over to a graphic method that uses graphics 
for the " [at] " and the ".com" but text for the actual user name and domain 
name. That way the graphics are cached and don't get downloaded for 
every page if you browse the member pages.

In the digest archive and on the searchable archive I change " [at] " to " 
[at] ". I'm concerned that's a bit to easy to detect, but it's easy to 
automate so that's how I went...

And recently I've been using a JavaScript that's a bit simpler to use 
than a graphic. I use this format on my theatrical.net pages.

    <SCRIPT LANGUAGE="JavaScript">
    <!-- Begin
    b = "theatrical";
    a = "auditions";
    c = "net";
    document.write('<a href=\"mailto:' + a + ' [at] ' + b + '.' + c + '\">');
    document.write(a + ' [at] ' + b + '.' + c + '</a>');
    // End -->

So, hopefully nobody is getting harvested off the stagecraft site! Just 
possibly from some of the older member pages that I haven't managed to 
update yet.

Noah

-- 
|   Noah Price                |   http://stagecraft.theprices.net/     |
|   Stagecraft Mailing List   |   stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net         |


------------------------------

Message-ID: <BAY104-F12CF551F0310FFB12235BAC2400 [at] phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To: <list-21307517 [at] prxy.net>
From: "Delbert Hall" <flyingfx [at] hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Rigging Software
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:27:36 -0500

I do not get a date.  I sent Michael a copy of the file that I downloaded to 
see if it is a different version, (mine is V1.0 copyright 1999) but I have 
not heard back from him.  Maybe we will get this figured out soon.

-Delbert

Delbert L. Hall
423-773-HALL (4255)



>
> > When I type in a number, it pops up as a date when I
> > advance to the next cell. I have tried whole numbers,
> > decimals, and fractions. They call come up as a date.
> > 1/8 comes up as "8-JAN".
>
>I get the same "Date" results.
>
> > Now to just figure out why the difference between our
> > files. I'll drop and email to ATM soon just to see
> > what they have to say about it.
>
>     Let us know what they have to say about it.
>
>Bruce
>--
>Bruce Purdy
>Cayuga NY USA
>bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com
>



------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-21302259 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21302259 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <a934e7130f576b31f154a6d7f8910bcd [at] theprices.net>
From: Noah Price <stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net>
Subject: Archives (was Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question)
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 19:29:26 -0800


On Mar 23, 2005, at 3:58 PM, Al Fitch wrote:

> I was going to look into the archives for my answer...

Sorry, they were down much of today. The database they are built on has 
had some trouble, but an alternative is in the works (more on that 
below).

The searchable archive for the list from June 1998 - April 2004 is at:
<http://stagecraft.theprices.net/archive.html>

The digest archive for the list from May 2004 - present is at:
<http://stagecraft.theprices.net/digest/>

I have a "beta" of a new archive which could also answer people's 
wishes to read the list more effectively via the web. Email me off list 
if you want to check it out. I need to finish getting it loaded and 
clean it up a bit before it's ready for prime time!

Noah

-- 
|   Noah Price                |   http://stagecraft.theprices.net/     |
|   Stagecraft Mailing List   |   stagecraft-web [at] theprices.net         |


------------------------------

Message-ID: <42423582.6080109 [at] JosephCHansen.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:35:30 -0500
From: barney <barney [at] JosephCHansen.com>
Subject: Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question
References: <list-21302259 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-21302259 [at] prxy.net>

All my answers that we use in our shop probably come under the "toxic" 
variety... Automotive break part cleaner being one of the best or the 
worst depending on your viewpoint.  Goo-gone, Goof-off are the step 
down, then spick and span (the abrasives disolve before too much damage) 
and the least drastic is murphy's oil soap in our bissel floor cleaning 
machine.

Barney Simon
JC Hansen Co
Drapes, Drops and Dance Floors

------------------------------

From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1fa.5007182.2f738fed [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:37:17 EST
Subject: Re: ETCP Handbook - Who to contact

bill [at] sapsis writes:
>Essential Skills....I'm embarrassed to say  that I'm not sure who the corre=
ct
>person is.=20

Bill, I'm shocked,  absolutely shocked!  I was sure that you knew everything=
.

Greer  Morrison Vranka is the ESTA Foundation Administrator for this program=
.=20
Contact at 212-244-1505 or gmorrison [at] esta.org.

As a member of the  Essential Skills Working Group, let me try to clarify=20
thus:

Essential  Skills is not a part of the ETCP at this point.   It is now part=20
of a  separate=20
Foundation recently established by ESTA.  Quoting from the Web  Site:=20

"...the ESTA Board of Directors created the ESTA Foundation, to be =20
established as a=20
501(c)3 organization. ESTA=E2=80=99s Technical Education Committee  and its=20
subcommittees -=20
Essential Skills, Publications & Assessments and  Seminars & Training - have=
=20
been=20
moved under the auspices of the  Foundation."

Whereas ETCP will develop full fledged Certification Exams  (no training), =20
Essential Skills will take a different approach and  offer a Certificate upo=
n=20
satisfactory completion of a recognized training  program (maybe with=20
testing). =20
It is a subtle wording distinction but  one with major differences in=20
what/how materials=20
are developed, how they are  administered, and in the COST of developing and=
=20
administering  them.

Jim Moody and Bill Price (Barbizon) are the co-chairs of the  Essential=20
Skills Working=20
Group.  We meet 4 times a year and often via  telephone/computer linkup to=20
work on=20
this program.   At present we  are putting the finishing touches on an entry=
=20
level vocabulary=20
skill set  since being able to understand the language is crucial to getting=
=20
started in the  craft.=20

We are at the very beginnings of what may be a long road to meet  all of the=
=20
diverse needs of=20
the Entertainment Industry.   But, as  a wise person once said, "A journey o=
f=20
a thousand=20
miles begins with the  first step."  The ETCP will work from the top down=20
while the Education =20
Foundation will work from the bottom up .  Eventually we will meet in  the=20
middle somewhere.=20

We welcome your company on the  journey.

Steve Vanciel
Principal Member,
ESTA Essential Skills  Working Group
ETCP Electrical Skills Working Group
ETCP Rigging Skills  Working Group
=20

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 23:03:29 -0500
Subject: Re: Rigging Software
From: Bruce Purdy <bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
Message-ID: <BE67A641.60F3%bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21309048 [at] prxy.net>

 
> I do not get a date.  I sent Michael a copy of the file that I downloaded to
> see if it is a different version, (mine is V1.0 copyright 1999) but I have
> not heard back from him.  Maybe we will get this figured out soon.

Mine is also V1.0 1999, and as I said, I do have the date format issue.

    I don't know whether it is part of the problem, but I am on a Mac. How
about you, Michael and Delbert?

    Is it possible that the format shows up as a date on Macs but not on
WinTel? Just a thought.

Bruce
-- 
Bruce Purdy
Technical Director
Smith Opera House



------------------------------

From: StevevETTrn [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1e.41e6a5c1.2f73a0b1 [at] aol.com>
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 23:48:49 EST
Subject: Re: Rigging Software

bpurdy writes:
>I don't know whether it is  part of the problem, but I am on a Mac. How
>about you, Michael and  Delbert?

>Is it possible that the format shows up as a date on Macs  but not on
>WinTel? Just a thought.  

Might be more a function of what version of Excel you are running.  I  have 
noticed since 
going to the Windows XP version of Excel that any numeral entry  containing 
either a "/" or a 
"-" will automatically be interpreted as a date.  Reformatting the  cell 
after making the 
entry results in the numerical value corresponding to the date.  Reformatting 
the cell before  
making the entry results in a decimal value.  E.G.  "1/2" entered  becomes 
"2-Jan" displayed 
(1/2/2005).  Reformat the cell after entry to "number" results in  "38354.00" 
displayed.
Reformat cell to "number" (from default of "general") before "1/2" entered  
yields "0.50"  
displayed.  Have not found a way to change this default setting,  yet.
FWIW my copy of Lotus123 goes directly to ".5" without the date default  
nonsense.
 
SteveV
Orl, FL


------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.0.20050323235948.01dbf130 [at] mail.insightbb.com>
Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:02:53 -0500
From: Mike Brubaker <mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: Where can I access the archives and a Marley question
Cc: fitchal [at] yahoo.com
In-Reply-To: <list-21303118 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-21303118 [at] prxy.net>

That works on Borco drawing board covers, too.  Very well.  Probably not 
supported by the manufacturer.

Mike

At 07:30 PM 3/23/2005, MissWisc [at] aol.com wrote:

>In a message dated 3/23/5 5:59:08 PM, fitchal [at] yahoo.com writes:
><< What is the easiest, most non-toxic way to do this?  >>
>
>Not certain if this is recommended by the manufacturer, but I've used Soft
>Scrub cleanser and a cloth fon spots/scuffs.  Rinse well with clean water and
>dry.



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2005 00:09:52 -0500
Subject: Solar Death ray mark II
From: Herrick Goldman <Herrick [at] HGLightingDesign.com>
Message-ID: <BE67B5D0.2F63%Herrick [at] HGLightingDesign.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-21310256 [at] prxy.net>

Hey look kids! http://www.solardeathray.com/

Now if he only knew where to find a S4 reflector.

-H
-- 
Herrick Goldman
Lighting Designer, NYC
www.HGLightingDesign.com
917-797-3624
"To the scores of silent alchemists who wreak their joy in darkness and in
light bringing magic to life, we bow most humbly. "-CDS



------------------------------

From: "Andy Leviss" <Andy [at] DucksEchoSound.com>
Subject: Way OT: Looking for a certain candy
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 22:29:54 -0500
Organization: Duck's Echo Sound
Message-ID: <000d01c53021$c1c4c780$a19afea9 [at] AndyLeviss>

Okay, I know this is way, way, way off-topic, but this is just the sort
of odd thing that somebody on the list inevitably ends up knowing so...a
friend of mine is trying desperately to find a US retailer (online,
ideally) for Golden BonBon Almond Nougat candy. Anybody have any ideas?
It's made in Canada, apparently, and the only retailer she's been able
to find is pretty pricey. Anyway, if anyone can offer a suggestion, I
(and in turn, she) would be extremely appreciative :o)

I now return you to your regular on-topic discussions,
Andy

-- 
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End of Stagecraft Digest #340
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