Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 21614270; Sun, 03 Apr 2005 03:00:46 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #351 Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 03:00:25 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on prxy.net X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #351 1. Re: Photos of electrical practice by Greg Bierly 2. Re: aisle lights by "Bll Conner" 3. Re: aisle lights by Gregg Carville 4. Building a Salt Water Dimmer by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 5. Re: Building a Salt Water Dimmer by Brian Munroe 6. Re: Building a Salt Water Dimmer by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 7. Re: aisle lights by CB 8. Re: "Archival recording" myth debunking by CB 9. Re: A/C Power Cable / Name that Amperage by CB 10. Re: A/C Power Cable / Name that Amperage by Scott Parker 11. Re: A/C Power Cable / Name that Amperage by "Jon Lagerquist" 12. FA on Ebay.UK by "Tony" 13. Re: aisle lights by "Steve B." 14. Re: aisle lights by "Occy" 15. Re: aisle lights by "Chris Warner" 16. Re: aisle lights by Greg Persinger 17. Re: aisle lights by "Chris Warner" 18. Re: aisle lights by Dale Farmer 19. Re: Archival Recordings by June Abernathy 20. aisle lights by "Occy" 21. Re: aisle lights by Greg Persinger 22. Prices on Lyntec Sequencing power panels by Greg Persinger *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <1f2f949fecc3f895035dc9386d926fb7 [at] dejazzd.com> From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: Photos of electrical practice Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 08:00:57 -0500 > I once built a brine barrel dimmer too, just to see if it was true. All > those who built one raise your hands. Well, now I am going to have to go out an try to build one. In my free time. Right. Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <001101c5378d$dbbed400$6a01a8c0 [at] BCA1> Reply-To: "Bll Conner" From: "Bll Conner" Subject: Re: aisle lights Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 08:11:19 -0600 I have a slightly different view than Jerry on the use of dimmers and illumination of the means of egress. Codes generally allow reducing the illumination level "during periods of performances or projections involving directed light" and I would argue that dimmers may be used. The design should assure that the level doesn't drop below the .2 fc. My usual approach is to assure the 0.2 fc from traditional seat end aisle lights in combination with step lights and the 1.0 fc for those other times with (dimmed or off) house lights. Both of these are on an approved emergency power supply with transfer switches, etc., so they are at full when normal power fails. Switching seat end and other step lights - collectively what I usually call aisle lights - is an interesting question. If it's hard to turn them off, they stay on all the time and burn out. I prefer to have them switched at locations where they can be turned on or off by authorized personnel conveniently. This may well be by way of the "dimming system" - using a module in the dimmer rack as a non-dim. The idea of putting the aisle light switch in a closet when the house light controls - also a part of the code required illumination - are readily accessible is odd to me. And I don't mean to exclude using ellipsoidals or other overhead directed sources for "aisle light". After all, the codes require a level of illumination and don't use the term aisle light or seat end light. Also, using a dimmer on these with a lo-trim pot that is not easily accessible works fine i.m.h.o. It is, i.m.h.o., a viable approach to flexible seating spaces. (Unlike Chicago which - until recently -required even flexible seating to have step lights wired in conduit. Change the seating layout - call in the electrical contractor.) Chicago - a code world unto itself and one which I am not intimately knowledgeable about - seems to require a lo-trim pot that allows the inspector to set a low trim for the house lights below which they are not suppose to dim and those dimmers themselves are on emergency power. Exit lights - I try to get the least objectionable approved designs installed. Need a total blackout - suggest ushers with covers on poles to the ahj. About as reliable as you can get for assuring the signs are unmasked when required. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <2c0e151605040206276ee0082d [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 09:27:16 -0500 From: Gregg Carville Reply-To: Gregg Carville Cc: bill-conner [at] att.net (Bll Conner) Subject: Re: aisle lights In-Reply-To: References: FWIW After conversations with the Fire Marshal we have come to the agreement: As long as there is 2 lux on the steps at all times, including if one of the lights fails (so that the others pick up that slack) then he is okay with whatever system we have in place. Our house lights more than adequately pick up the lighting level when dealing with entrance and egress. The aisle lights are on a dimmer, and this has never been an issue with inspections before. We have a minimum level set (and now we will go in a measure light level to see how it corresponds to the code.) In the end I don't plan on making the light level too dark. I want to avoid having an older patron tripping, breaking an ankle and then sueing us. We are also going to look into a better system of lighting the steps, so that the lighting is more efficient than the current system. thank you -Gregg ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 15:57:19 GMT Subject: Building a Salt Water Dimmer Message-Id: <20050402.075733.29075.173406 [at] webmail03.lax.untd.com> I once used a hexagonal clear Lexan tropical fish tank with a locking top, used the existing (100 watt?) aquarium light as the load, and a stepping motor wired to an embedded PLC and controlled by a sequencer unit salvaged from an early electronic Organ to control the travel of the plates unattended, as a Science Fair project in the 60s. I didn't win, but now I judge both the LA County and California Science Fairs each year... /s/ Richard > I once built a brine barrel dimmer too, just to see if it was true. All those who built one raise your hands. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 12:07:17 -0500 From: Brian Munroe Reply-To: Brian Munroe Subject: Re: Building a Salt Water Dimmer In-Reply-To: References: A PLC controlled salt water dimmer. What will they think of next? Brian On Apr 2, 2005 10:57 AM, ladesigners [at] juno.com wrote: > I once used a hexagonal clear Lexan tropical fish tank with a locking top, used the existing (100 watt?) aquarium light as the load, and a stepping motor wired to an embedded PLC and controlled by a sequencer unit salvaged from an early electronic Organ to control the travel of the plates unattended, as a Science Fair project in the 60s. I didn't win, but now I judge both the LA County and California Science Fairs each year... ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 19:02:49 GMT Subject: Re: Building a Salt Water Dimmer Message-Id: <20050402.110346.11740.176393 [at] webmail23.lax.untd.com> An ACN or DMX one? /s/ Richard > A PLC controlled salt water dimmer. What will they think of next? Brian ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050402201704.016eb3d0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 20:17:04 From: CB Subject: re: aisle lights >Because means of egress lighting must be reliable and on emergency power , >placing the aisle lighting or any lighting for the egress path on a dimmer >is not allowed. Lighting for the egress path and emergency lighting for the egress path need not be the same circuits, nor the same lights. You COULD have one set of aisle lights that could be set for whatever you need, and another set of lights (say, some huge floods) that come on in the event of an emergency. This way the aisle lights could be dimmed without interfering with the emergency lighting, n'est ce pas? Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050402202427.016eb3d0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 20:24:27 From: CB Subject: RE: "Archival recording" myth debunking >Actor's Equity check 31 c)- http://www.actorsequity.org/Library/rulebooks/Business_Theatre_Rulebook_04-0 5.pdf > >Seems to be allowed. ...by equity. All that this means is that the actors need not be paid in the event that an archival copy is made. If you are caught making an illegal videotape of an actual performance, Equity won't go after you for actor pay. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050402203127.016eb3d0 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 20:31:27 From: CB Subject: RE: A/C Power Cable / Name that Amperage >Try this one... > >http://tinyurl.com/5bxpe Still wanted to go straight to the printer (!?!), but I got to see the page this time! I was told (you .html guys prolly know better) that any URL longer than a few inches is some IT guy just being lazy. Or is it just hte dangers of the territory? Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-ID: <90d9c998050402140010f526c7 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 17:00:07 -0500 From: Scott Parker Reply-To: Scott Parker Subject: Re: A/C Power Cable / Name that Amperage In-Reply-To: References: It wanted to go to my printer as well. Stop at the OK box. On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 20:31:27, CB wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > >Try this one... > > > >http://tinyurl.com/5bxpe > > Still wanted to go straight to the printer (!?!), -- Take care, Scott Scott C. Parker ------------------------------ From: "Jon Lagerquist" Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 14:43:21 -0800 Subject: Re: A/C Power Cable / Name that Amperage Reply-to: jon [at] lagerquist.com Message-ID: <424EAF89.12314.1D9A31F1 [at] localhost> In-reply-to: References: A quick look at the code for the page shows a java script that causes that. Just a product of the way the page was written. If you have Java turned off it is less likely to do that. > It wanted to go to my printer as well. Stop at the OK box. Jon Lagerquist Technical Director [at] South Coast Repertory Costa Mesa, CA ------------------------------ Message-ID: <00fa01c537e3$79b92d90$0800000a [at] Tony> From: "Tony" References:

Subject: FA on Ebay.UK Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 01:24:15 +0100 OK gents - I have a couple of auctions open on Ebay at present. Obviously best suited to the UK end of the market, but feel free to browse. Source Four 19 degree lens tubes http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7312770990 4 available. Gel frames - 298mm square, which means they'll probably fit the old Strand Patt 60 floods. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7312772440&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:UK:1 Cheers Ynot ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 19:50:42 -0500 From: "Steve B." Subject: Re: aisle lights Message-id: <003001c537e7$298dd060$6401a8c0 [at] SBFF> References: ----- Original Message ----- From: "CB" > Lighting for the egress path and emergency lighting for the egress path > need not be the same circuits, nor the same lights. You COULD have one > set > of aisle lights that could be set for whatever you need, and another set > of > lights (say, some huge floods) that come on in the event of an emergency. > This way the aisle lights could be dimmed without interfering with the > emergency lighting, n'est ce pas Actually there's no reason to have separate systems. Nor does the NEC call for it, if my read on the NEC is correct.. ETC, Union Connector and ASCO (and others, AFAIK) manufacture transfer systems that allow normal loads, even dimmed normal loads to be transferred to emergency power supply when needed. This is a common application for dimmed house lights that do double duty as emergency lighting fed from a generator. The ETC Unison DR series dimmer packs (as example) have an automatic by-pass option that drives the dimmers to full when a loss-of-normal power is sensed. All it then needs is a separate ATS to feed the pack(s) with emergency power as needed. No reason aisle and step lights could not be configured the same way, though if the "house" lights are already configured this way, or there are battery operated fixtures that provide for the correct coverage and intensity, I would not see the point of putting the aisle/step lights on the emergency feed as well, as they provide little additional illumination. Steve Bailey Brooklyn College ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" References:

Subject: Re: aisle lights Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 19:37:07 -0800 The last 18 screen cinema I built used orange LEDs 2 foot above the floor on the walls spaced 1 foot apart and blue LEDs in the handicap zones on a battery pack with the cleaning/ emergence HID lights in the ceiling on a battery pack. Big battery pack for each screen, I would have used a emergence generator as to of the pack brunt up even before the place opened. One amphitheater that I was ME at the isle lights weren't on the EM panels but were on a motor dimmer made no since to me as never dimmed them and later on increased the wattage of the lamps to make it brighter for the drunks climbing down the steps. At this venue as soon as the power loss happen the house lights came on as soon as transfer to EM power happened, this place was house lights did not dim it was all or nothing. Occasionally I would turn the breakers on some of the lights to give it a less harsh lighting for the 16,000 seat house and that would only happen if they weren't a pain in the bum on the load in and asked nicely. But this is the place that that had 1.2 megawatt power plant on site for the California black outs so they could sell a beer and still have a show beside the standby generator. Another amphitheater the house and the stage work lights were on motor dimmers aisle lights were on and off power failure mode house lights would come up via motor dimmer and that's all that would happen aisle light stayed out. and this was a 19,000 seat venue. ------------------------------ Message-ID: <0cd501c5380a$75a2f750$6401a8c0 [at] chris> From: "Chris Warner" References:

Subject: Re: aisle lights Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 21:03:21 -0800 In my experience Generators are not as fast as an Inverter/UPS system (I maintain these things for a living), genny's I am told can take as much as 15 mins to take a load, an inverter is instant. My .02. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Occy" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 7:37 PM Subject: Re: aisle lights > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > The last 18 screen cinema I built used orange LEDs 2 foot above the floor on > the walls spaced 1 foot apart and blue LEDs in the handicap zones on a > battery pack with the cleaning/ emergence HID lights in the ceiling on a > battery pack. Big battery pack for each screen, I would have used a > emergence generator as to of the pack brunt up even before the place opened. > > One amphitheater that I was ME at the isle lights weren't on the EM panels > but were on a motor dimmer made no since to me as never dimmed them and > later on increased the wattage of the lamps to make it brighter for the > drunks climbing down the steps. At this venue as soon as the power loss > happen the house lights came on as soon as transfer to EM power happened, > this place was house lights did not dim it was all or nothing. Occasionally > I would turn the breakers on some of the lights to give it a less harsh > lighting for the 16,000 seat house and that would only happen if they > weren't a pain in the bum on the load in and asked nicely. But this is the > place that that had 1.2 megawatt power plant on site for the California > black outs so they could sell a beer and still have a show beside the > standby generator. > > Another amphitheater the house and the stage work lights were on motor > dimmers aisle lights were on and off power failure mode house lights would > come up via motor dimmer and that's all that would happen aisle light stayed > out. and this was a 19,000 seat venue. > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.0 - Release Date: 3/31/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.0 - Release Date: 3/31/2005 ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 23:19:44 -0600 Subject: Re: aisle lights From: Greg Persinger Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Chris Warner wrote: > In my experience Generators are not as fast as an Inverter/UPS system (I > maintain these things for a living), genny's I am told can take as much as > 15 mins to take a load, an inverter is instant. Chris, You have been told wrong. Yes battery powered emergency systems are almost instant on, but most generator systems are online in 30seconds or less. Think about it. What good would an emergency generator be in an actual emergency if it took 15 minutes to come online? Not much. Greg Persinger Vivid Illumination Greg [at] Vividillumination.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <0d1a01c53811$39a79290$6401a8c0 [at] chris> From: "Chris Warner" References: Subject: Re: aisle lights Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 21:51:48 -0800 Which is why in most of the places with generators they have UPS systems that are near to always on. Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Persinger" To: "Stagecraft" Sent: Saturday, April 02, 2005 9:19 PM Subject: Re: aisle lights > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Chris Warner wrote: > > > In my experience Generators are not as fast as an Inverter/UPS system (I > > maintain these things for a living), genny's I am told can take as much as > > 15 mins to take a load, an inverter is instant. > > Chris, > > You have been told wrong. > > Yes battery powered emergency systems are almost instant on, but most > generator systems are online in 30seconds or less. > > Think about it. What good would an emergency generator be in an actual > emergency if it took 15 minutes to come online? Not much. > > Greg Persinger > Vivid Illumination > > Greg [at] Vividillumination.com > > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.0 - Release Date: 3/31/2005 > > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.0 - Release Date: 3/31/2005 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <424F8574.90D3FDA2 [at] cybercom.net> Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 00:56:04 -0500 From: Dale Farmer Organization: The fuzz in the back of the fridge. Subject: Re: aisle lights References: Greg Persinger wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > Chris Warner wrote: > > > In my experience Generators are not as fast as an Inverter/UPS system (I > > maintain these things for a living), genny's I am told can take as much as > > 15 mins to take a load, an inverter is instant. > > Chris, > > You have been told wrong. > > Yes battery powered emergency systems are almost instant on, but most > generator systems are online in 30seconds or less. > > Think about it. What good would an emergency generator be in an actual > emergency if it took 15 minutes to come online? Not much. Well, the generators at the old bell system built central offices would take that long to assume the load sometimes. They wanted to be sure that the genny was fully warmed up and running good. Besides, the battery banks were usually speced to run the switch for 24 hours or longer on stored power. But that was a deliberate design decision. Nowadays, a typical generator on autostart will assume the load in around 30 seconds. OFten less, depends on the specific installation. --Dale ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050403060341.29803.qmail [at] web14124.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 22:03:41 -0800 (PST) From: June Abernathy Subject: Re: Archival Recordings Everyone has pretty well answered this, but I wanted to correct an impression that may have mistakenly been passed along - namely, that AEA is blanketedly OK with "archival" recordings. Actors' Equity Association has definate opinions about archival recordings, and the one link posted to their website sent you to the "Business Theater" contract - which is to say, Industrials, which is much more liberal than the others are. There are a dozen or more AEA contracts - Broadway, Off Broadway, Regional, Stock, Dinner Theater, Small Professional Theater, etc. They all vary in a number of details. Archival recordings is one of them, and most of them won't allow it, at least without serious assurances. I will tell you from long experience that they generally DON'T like having "archival" recordings done unless you can prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are making one recording and that one copy is going in a recognized ARCHIVE, like Lincoln Center or the Goodspeed Opera House library. They don't like any taping, audio or video. They have serious restrictions on footage used for news, or PR, or grants, or anything, really. As for what constitutes an "arhival" video, if you aren't talking about putting it in a real archive - A video which will sit on the artistic director's shelf is generally seriously frowned upon. I'm not saying it's never allowed, but it's rare indeed. One which will have copies made for various artistic types is very very seriously frowned upon. I've never seen them approve such a thing. One which will be widely copied off and distributed to all and sundry is simply verboten. But, a lot of places DO make videos, and tell the cast that it's OK, because it's just an archival copy to use for reference, and it's not going to be broadcast or anything, and Equity is OK with that. A really disturbing number of AEA members believe this statement at face value. It's so rarely true that I *ALWAYS* call AEA and check when I hear it. And here's the thing - even if every AEA cast member of a show signs a paper saying that they are OK with the recording, it's still *NOT OK* unless the AEA business rep for your contract says it's OK. And if you do get such permission, you'd want to get it in writing. Conversely, if you do get permission from AEA, they will probably grant it contingent upon getting signed permission from all the AEA members in the cast. We can go into why AEA hates recordings at another time if someone cares . . . Even in a non-equity situation, you do still have to deal with any other unions that may be involved (the IA, USA, SSDC,the musicians, etc.), and, as others have said, with the rights holders, possibly authors, and with anyone who has intellectual property concerns - Director, Choreographer, and all designers at the very least. It's not a small thing. And even if "they've always done it", not getting caught is not the same as doing it right. June Abernathy IATSE #321 (Tampa, FL) FOH Electrician The Lion King National Tour (Gazelle) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 250MB free storage. Do more. Manage less. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------------ Message-ID: From: "Occy" Subject: aisle lights Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 23:08:52 -0800 Most standby genny's are are block heated. batteries constant balanced, as soon as they get RPM and Voltage they transfer, normal with in 10 to 15 seconds. Your right a genny is not as fast as Inverter/UPS system but fast enough. If a standby genny took 15 mins to come on line I would have major issues. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Warner" > In my experience Generators are not as fast as an Inverter/UPS system (I > maintain these things for a living), genny's I am told can take as much as > 15 mins to take a load, an inverter is instant. > > My .02. > Chris ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 03:01:46 -0500 Subject: Re: aisle lights From: Greg Persinger Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Chris Warner wrote: > Which is why in most of the places with generators they have UPS systems > that are near to always on. Yes but UPS systems are only on mission critical systems. It is a design/engineering decision as to what truly needs to be on a UPS. A lighting console and architectural controller maybe yes, a dimmer rack no. A primary company computer system may have a UPS that will hold the system for 15 minutes or more, but the system will transfer to the backup generator once it is online. Most of the FAA radar installations have power that comes into the system and goes into the battery bank. On the other side of the battery bank is an inverter that actually powers the installation. If the power goes out the backup generator comes online and feeds the battery bank. This regulates the power and keeps them from ever seeing power fluctuations etc. The telephone company does the same thing. Big UPS systems that hold everything up are very expensive to own. Diesel or gas generators with small localized UPS systems are much more economical. Greg Persinger Vivid Illumination Greg [at] Vividillumination.com ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 03:32:08 -0500 Subject: Prices on Lyntec Sequencing power panels From: Greg Persinger Message-ID: Howdy, Does anyone have a ballpark figure on what I would spend for a Lyntec 24 circuit sequencing power panel? Larger sizes would be OK as well. Thanks. Greg Persinger Vivid Illumination Greg [at] Vividillumination.com ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #351 *****************************