Return-Path: X-Processed-By: Virex 7 on prxy.net X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 21830132; Thu, 14 Apr 2005 03:01:03 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #363 Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 03:00:51 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.2 (2004-11-16) on prxy.net X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #363 1. Re: theatre company reference by Bill Sapsis 2. Re: Rigging Certification vs. Being Qualified by Bill Sapsis 3. Re: Rigging Certification (was RE: theatre company reference) by Bill Sapsis 4. Re: theatre company reference by "Matthew Breton" 5. Re: theatre company reference by Bill Sapsis 6. Re: Cancelling EMR by "ladesigners [at] juno.com" 7. Re: Delrin by Brian Munroe 8. Re: baaack & related question by Brian Munroe 9. Re: Cancelling EMR by Jerry Durand 10. Re: Delrin by David Duffy 11. Re: Cancelling EMR by Jerry Durand 12. TD Questions by J Burch 13. Re: baaack & related question by "C. Dopher" 14. Re: Who said that? part 2 by "C. Dopher" 15. Re: baaack & related question by "C. Dopher" 16. Re: Scrim repair by "C. Dopher" 17. Re: baaack & related question by "C. Dopher" 18. Re: Cancelling EMR by "C. Dopher" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:36:45 -0400 Subject: Re: theatre company reference From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 4/13/05 8:01 AM, Delbert Hall at delbert.hall [at] gmail.com wrote: > I maintain my belief that a person can pass this exam, should should > have the knowledge to inspect a counterweight system. Since you seem > to disagree with this statement, I think a lot of people on this list > would like to know why you feel that I person who passes this exam > would NOT have the knowledge to inspect a mechanical counterweight > system. Because we have not identified this certification to be for Inspectors. We have identified this certification to be for Arena style riggers and for theatrical style riggers. If you think that this also includes Inspectors, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. However, the people who are involved in the certification do not think that way. I take umbrage with your remarks because you couch them in such a manner as to appear to be speaking for the group who has developed this certification, of which you are not a member. it is my contention that if someone wants an accurate answer to a specific question regarding certification, it would be more helpful if they received that answer from a member of the group. Speculation, in my humble opinion, is not helpful here. Accuracy is. Respectfully, Bill S. (insert annoying ETCP sig file here for clarity) www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:50:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Rigging Certification vs. Being Qualified From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 4/13/05 2:21 PM, Scheu Consulting Services at peter [at] scheuconsulting.com wrote: > Gee, don't thank me just yet! I only hope my take on this is defensible! > ;-) Unca Bill may set me straight! No need. You are doing just fine. and just to clarify something for those who may not know....Peter is a Subject matter expert and a member of the group of people who are developing the ETCP rigging certification. Thanks Peter Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:58:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Rigging Certification (was RE: theatre company reference) From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: While the ETCP as an entity may be very new, if you take a look at the membership list of the Council, you will see leaders from all aspects of the entertainment industry. And yes, while it's true that the ETCP is relatively new, the members of the ETCP will be more than happy to answer any of your questions or clarify anything you may be confused about. I would like to suggest that if you do have questions that they be directed to the Certification Manager, Katie Geraghty. Her e-mail address is kgeraghty [at] esta.rog. if she does not have the answer for you she will direct the question to a Council member that does. Thanks Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html on 4/13/05 10:42 AM, Delbert Hall at delbert.hall [at] gmail.com wrote: > Thanks Peter. Like many others, I am still trying to figure out the > ETCP. The ETCP Handbook that says that "ETCP certification ... > provides public validation and public recognition of your skills," > but it does not seem to make reference (at least none that I could > fine) to specific skills that a ETCP Certified Rigger can claim to > have. In spite of the quote in the handbook, it seems to me that ETCP > certification does not certify a technician to have any specific > skills (qualifications to do any specific job). It seems to me that be > an ETCP Certified Technician is one thing, and claiming to be > "qualified" to do a specific job is another. Do you agree or > disagree? If you disagree, can you tell us what skills an ETCP > Certified Technician can claim to have? This seems to be a VERY > important question because the ETCP Code of Ethics and Professional > Conduct states that an ETCP Certified Technician must "avoid actions > which falsely or misrepresent one's professional qualifications... " > > The handbook states that, "Certifications indicates a substantial > professional commitment to the field and documents this expertise to > employers, colleagues and professional organizations." Is this a > "skill?" I don't think so. I just have not seem any specific skills > a ETCP Certified Technician can claim to have, and I suspect we may > never see any. Again, if I have missed this information, please point > me to it. > > Finally, what knowledge/skills do you feel that one must possess in > order to claim to be a "qualified" (not certified) inspector of > mechanical counterweight systems? And, is this knowledge not covered > on the ETCP exam? It seems to me that it is (or should be), but I > would like to hear your opinion. Again, let me say that I am talking > about being "qualified" (having the knowledge/skills) to do this job, > and not be being "certified" (have these specific skills recognized by > an independent organization). > > The ETCP is very new and there is a great deal that I do not know > about it. Thanks for answering my questions and setting me straight > on my misperceptions. ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Matthew Breton" Subject: Re: theatre company reference Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:56:07 -0400 > > I think a lot of people on this list would like to know why you feel >that I person who passes > > this exam would NOT have the knowledge to inspect a mechanical >counterweight > > system. >Because we have not identified this certification to be for Inspectors. We >have identified this certification to be for Arena style riggers and for >theatrical style riggers. If you think that this also includes Inspectors, >you are certainly entitled to your opinion. Just a couple of questions for both sides: If an individual or company were looking to hire a rigging inspector, would it benefit the inspector(s) to be ETCP certified? Would having ETCP certification meet a prerequisite of being certified as an inspector, or vice versa? (It would make sense that an inspector would meet the ETCP qualification points, although he or she may not have actually rigged the gear themselves.) Would a company that hired a person to inspect their counterweight system be as covered with an ETCP-certified individual or individuals as they would with an inspection company? And -- pardon my ignorance here -- but what certification exists for inspectors? And how do the criteria match up with those for the ETCP Rigging program? I have to imagine that the ETCP program didn't come about because a similar program already existed and they wanted to split hairs; rather, I think it came about to answer a need that wasn't currently being answered. -- Matt ========== _________________________________________________________________ On the road to retirement? Check out MSN Life Events for advice on how to get there! http://lifeevents.msn.com/category.aspx?cid=Retirement ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 01:03:51 -0400 Subject: Re: theatre company reference From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: on 4/13/05 10:19 AM, Bll Conner at bill-conner [at] att.net wrote: > So of those of you who do offer inspection services, how many of you take > full responsibility for the system when you are done and your > recommendations followed and don't disclaim any responsibility for the > safety of the system? I do. You will not find any disclaimer of any kind associated with a report from Sapsis Rigging. I have been told by others that that is a foolish position to take and that I am opening myself up to litigation. I say...tough. You hire me to do a job...I do the job. I don't tell you that even though I was there and I did the job that I am not responsible for that job. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ From: "ladesigners [at] juno.com" Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 05:09:45 GMT Subject: Re: Cancelling EMR Message-Id: <20050413.221008.22730.337399 [at] webmail18.lax.untd.com> Thank You Jerry. You explained it better, and in much fewer words, than either my friends recently or my professors in the early 70s. I still don't understand why a pulse of incredibly short duration could not produce a single wave that could be polarized, and another EMR pulse triggered a half phase later couldn't produce a cancelling wave that also could be polarized so that both their X and Y coordinates were on the same plane and their Z coordinates remained in sync. /s/ Richard >Ironically, I was talking informally to some of my Theoretical Physicist buddies at CalTech some time ago, and asked them why, since noise cancelling works, why can't light cancelling work in the same way by utilizing monochromatic collimated (laser) light source at some frequency in the 350-700 Angstrom range 180 degrees out of phase with another monochromatic collimated (laser) light source at the exact same frequency? The problem is the light waves (when it acts like a wave) aren't all in phase. It's like trying to cancel white noise with "anti-white-noise". In theory you could do it, but it would mean you'd have to figure out the phase of every wave. Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 01:19:15 -0400 From: Brian Munroe Reply-To: Brian Munroe Subject: Re: Delrin In-Reply-To: References: On 4/13/05, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > In the UK, it is usual for the batten to be grounded other than through t= he > luminaires hung from it. Certainly one must never rely on the suspension = wires. Exactly how is that done, Frank? Thanks, Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 01:26:07 -0400 From: Brian Munroe Reply-To: Brian Munroe Subject: Re: baaack & related question In-Reply-To: References:

On 4/13/05, Mt. Angel Performing Arts wro= te: > > I'm surprised that nobody yet has mentioned the product we use exclusiv= ely - > IntelliDark fixtures... That must be the wiggle light version of the followdark. Brian Munroe bpmunroe [at] gmail.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050413222811.03dd8c18 [at] localhost> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:34:02 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Cancelling EMR In-Reply-To: References: At 10:09 PM 4/13/2005, you wrote: >Thank You Jerry. You explained it better, and in much fewer words, than >either my friends recently or my professors in the early 70s. I still >don't understand why a pulse of incredibly short duration could not >produce a single wave that could be polarized, and another EMR pulse >triggered a half phase later couldn't produce a cancelling wave that also >could be polarized so that both their X and Y coordinates were on the same >plane and their Z coordinates remained in sync. There's the rub, we're not talking about a single pulse of light. Each electron that drops to a lower shell emits a photon (or wave, depending on it's mood) for each shell it drops. Take trillions of electrons dropping at random times and you have the light equivalent of white noise. Note, you CAN have light combined to cause cancellation. You take light from a single source, break it into two beams, delay one slightly, and then recombine them (works best with a laser). You will now get either light or dark, depending on the delay. If the delay path bounces off a mirror and you move the mirror, the mixed light will blink on and off. Count the blinks and you know EXACTLY how far the mirror moved. This is a laser interferometer. You can also do this with monochromatic light and an optical flat. Place it on a supposedly flat piece of metal, shine monochromatic light in and you get rings. Count the rings and you know how out of flat it is. This all works because you're using the light from the same source, all the waves are in sync. ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <425E00AF.5030309 [at] audiovisualdevices.com.au> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:33:35 +1000 From: David Duffy Subject: Re: Delrin References:

In-Reply-To: Brian Munroe wrote: >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >On 4/13/05, FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: > > >>In the UK, it is usual for the batten to be grounded other than through the >>luminaires hung from it. Certainly one must never rely on the suspension wires. >> >> > >Exactly how is that done, Frank? > > Probably by a wire going from the pipe to mains earth? David... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050413223522.03dd8ea8 [at] localhost> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:36:02 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Cancelling EMR ps: Here's a picture of an optical flat with a description of how to read it. http://www.oceanoptics.com/Products/flats.asp ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886 fax: +1 408 356-4659 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050414054613.72891.qmail [at] web61210.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:46:13 -0700 (PDT) From: J Burch Subject: TD Questions Greetings I am in the process of gathering information leading to a series of papers and eventually (hopefully) to a book about the history of Technical Direction, current practices, and about practicing Technical Directors in the industry. I have been a lurker on this list on and off for most of the past decade, and I have always found your posts very informative, insightful, and helpful. I would appreciate your thoughts (from all � not just TD's) on the following questions. How has the position of Technical Director changed over your career in the industry? (evolution of duties and responsibilities) What trends do you see developing within the industry technologically speaking, and within your position as TD? When you retire from your career, what will you hope to leave behind? How have innovations in theatrical technology affected your job? Please refer to applicable innovations. This may include new products as well. What type of theatre (touring, rotating repertory, and so forth) are you involved in and how does that effect your position? Please include your: Name Theatre Position This is the first of several questionnaires I will eventually be creating, as I am currently writing in sections as I have time. I will duly credit all responses, and I ask permission now to use quotes when applicable. If you have any questions, or are interested in the project and would like to supply more insights / information, please feel free to contact me about that as well. Thanks you all for your help & have a great day. Jean Burch Technical Direction MFA Candidate University of Missouri � Kansas City __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 02:27:57 -0400 Subject: Re: baaack & related question From: "C. Dopher" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Steve L wrote: > > "C. Dopher" wrote: >> --------------------------------------------------- >>> After I left, she scrawled a rather rude note on a piece of legal pad >>> paper and taped it to the platform in question--and did this in the >>> presence of students. >> >> Unfortunately, I think you were the one in error here. Though her attitude >> could have been better, yours could have been, too. Drawing or no, if the >> director asks for a railing, your job is to ask what kind and how high and >> when does she need it by? Your snippy remark about you'll do it when you >> got a note about it was bound to get her riled up, since by simply asking >> you about the phantom railing, you WERE getting a note about it! > > I'm going to have to back up Paul, here. As the TD it's his job to > install the railing, not design it. If the designer really doesn't > want a railing there, that's a discussion they should have and resolve > it without putting the TD in the middle. Perhaps he could have handled > it better (I don't know, I wasn't there) but the director needs to > communicate her needs through the scenic designer. Hence my other statement about designer communication or lack thereof. Seems to me that, in the absence of the designer doing his job -- drawing up a railing for the TD to build -- the director ends up with little choice but to turn to the TD directly. If such a thing happens, its safe to assume that the designer has either given up any preferences or is being shunted from the process by the director. The director then becomes the de-facto designer. So when she asks "where the hell's my railing?" to the TD, then the source for the answers to his ensuing questions is now the director. Maybe that was too complicated an explanation for the way I've handled similar situations in the past: "you want a railing? Thought you might. Been asking the designer what he wants it to look like, but he either doesn't care or doesn't want one. You do. So...how high, what color? Steel or wood? Decorative, useful, or both? We're out of money, you don't mind if I build this out of scrap do you? Oh, and we're out of scrap, so I tore apart your desk and...yep, my carps are installing your new railing now. 'S all right?" Cris Dopher, LD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 02:37:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Who said that? part 2 From: "C. Dopher" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Yup, you're right. Thanks for the correction. Steve Litterst: > I believe that you mean UMKC, the university of Missouri > at Kansas City. Or, on the other hand the University of > Kansas in Lawrence, Ks. I don't believe that KU has a > campus in KC. But, times do change. > > steve > >> From: "C. Dopher" > >> I saw a performance at ACTF over a decade ago that University of Kansas, >> Kansas City, created. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 02:46:00 -0400 Subject: Re: baaack & related question From: "C. Dopher" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Delbert: >> why can't we cantilever a 16' >> platform with 2x4's over the audience and have 37 dancers tap on the >> very end of it=20 > > My favorite request is to have the instruments in the house positions > shine on the actors, but not on the scenery or the floor. THAT I can do! But it requires actors who can hit a spike.... So you'll never see me demonstrate this in your lifetime. Cris Dopher, LD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 02:54:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Scrim repair From: "C. Dopher" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Shell: > Using the good / fast/ cheap concept for scrim repair, I have had good > results (not perfect) using an embroidery hoop. I put the area to be > repaired in the hoop, and then Sobo Glue a repair piece in position. > > By backing the scrim with some saran wrap covered styro and pinning the > repair piece in place and then dabbing glue around the edges, you get a > decent repair in a short amount of time, and it can usually be done in > place. Hm... (I can't believe I'm posting so much to the list lately...must mean I'm done with techs and into dress rehearsals, right?) Couple years ago, I hung a brand-spankin'-new scrim that had arrived a couple weeks before, in prep for a dance concert. A musical theatre teacher put his class onstage without my knowledge ...and one of them promptly ripped a 6" gash in the scrim about a foot off the floor at the center. Of course the teacher denied it was his class that did it. Whatever. With two hours before final dress -- pictures night -- I asked one of my newest costume shop workstudies, whom I barely new, if she could sew by hand. She said yes, so I set her to work on the scrim while the rest of us went about the regular pre-show routines. Half an hour before curtain, she had completed the repair -- all the while lying on her side, squeezed between the scrim and groundrow so the crew could sweep and mop the rest of the stage. And the repair is so good and so nearly invisible that it doesn't show up in pictures at all and we've chosen to keep using that scrim rather than pull out the other (secret) identical new scrim that was ordered at the same time! All praise to the perseverance and ingenuity of talented student seamstresses. Cris Dopher, LD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 03:10:22 -0400 Subject: Re: baaack & related question From: "C. Dopher" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Greg Williams: >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Delbert Hall" >>> >>> My favorite request is to have the instruments in the house positions >>> shine on the actors, but not on the scenery or the floor. >> > > On Apr 13, 2005, at 8:46 PM, Mike Brubaker wrote: > >> How do you keep the light off the floor? >> >> Mike > > Mike, > > I usually try to use LumenAbsorb (tm), although if that's not available > at the local Lowe's, I'll settle for LightAway (tm). > > An even application about 3 feet above floor level will allow a smooth > absorption rate which looks almost natural as the candlepower fades > into nothing. > > Hope this helps. > > -=Greg Williams=- I have news for you, smartass. Jokes aside, we might have just entered the age where it IS possible to shine a light from FOH position on an actor and not have the audience see the spill. Though I can't find the link right now, Rosebrand is introducing a new chroma-key fabric that is, essentially, millions of tiny glass reflectors (I assume of the micro-cube style) that reflects light back ONLY along the axis it came from (think SOLAS tape and such, like I decorate my bike and helmet with). With it, they sell a light ring of green or blue LEDs to go around a camera's lens, so that to the camera, the subject being photographed is against a chromakey backdrop, but to everybody else off to the sides, the fabric is a dull grey. I also see an advantage in that there would be no chroma-keyed bounce light falling onto the subject to mess with the computer's head. Put this fabric down as your floor or walls and -- presto -- light the actor with "no spill"...or at least the spill gets reflected directly back at the light source, creating, I presume, a halo of oppositely-situated backlight. I can't WAIT to play with this stuff. Cris Dopher, LD ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 03:18:31 -0400 Subject: Re: Cancelling EMR From: "C. Dopher" Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Jerry Durand: > At 08:25 PM 4/13/2005, you wrote: >> Ironically, I was talking informally to some of my Theoretical Physicist >> buddies at CalTech some time ago, and asked them why, since noise >> cancelling works, why can't light cancelling work in the same way by >> utilizing monochromatic collimated (laser) light source at some frequency >> in the 350-700 Angstrom range 180 degrees out of phase with another >> monochromatic collimated (laser) light source at the exact same frequency? > > The problem is the light waves (when it acts like a wave) aren't all in > phase. It's like trying to cancel white noise with "anti-white-noise". In > theory you could do it, but it would mean you'd have to figure out the > phase of every wave. OK, last post tonight, I promise! Cancelling EMR... Let me think back to the afore-referenced UMKC production of The Adding Machine. The 3D effects were generated Captain EO style -- using two differently-polarized projection sources with each eye having a properly aligned polarized plastic lens in front, so that one experiences a 3D image in the scenery. This was actually a problem for some of the lighting. They chose to use followspots from the side so that the screens could be kept sharp and clear of bouncelight -- but once you pass light through glass, it polarizes to some extent -- so the lights had a tendency to get screened somewhat by our 3D glasses, creating some interesting and disturbing incidental lighting effects on the actors. A jump in thinking: since polarizers get all the light traveling in one plane and a polarizer 90-degrees rotated then stops the rest of the light, it should be possible to create...clear scenery through which your lights won't travel -- costumes which reflect light but floors which do not -- god, I need to go to bed. Cris Dopher, LD ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #363 *****************************