Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 22567052; Tue, 24 May 2005 03:00:43 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #406 Date: Tue, 24 May 2005 03:00:26 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on prxy.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #406 1. Re: Public thanks to Delbert & Co. by Delbert Hall 2. Re: Automatic Fly Systems by Tom Hares 3. Re: Automatic flying systems by Tom Hares 4. Re: Automatic fly systems by Howard Ires 5. Re: Updating and Repairing a theater. by "Scheu Consulting Services" 6. Re: Video Projector Placement by Matt DeLong 7. Re: Automatic fly systems by Mike Brubaker 8. Re: Automatic fly systems by Mike Brubaker 9. Re: Exporting VectorWorks to ACIS solids by "Kevin Linzey" 10. Automatic fly systems by 11. Re: Updating and Repairing a theater. by MissWisc [at] aol.com 12. Re: Automatic Fly Systems by Jerry Durand 13. Re: Automatic fly systems by Warren Stiles 14. harness sale by Jared Fortney 15. dance lights for warmth by 16. Re: stagehands who don't understand... by 17. Re: Automatic fly systems by "Scheu Consulting Services" 18. Re: Automatic fly systems by Greg Bierly 19. Hemp vs other by b Ricie 20. Re: Automatic fly systems by Eddie Kramer 21. Re: Automatic fly systems by Bill Sapsis 22. Re: Hemp vs other by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 23. Re: Student designers by "Charles J Korecki" 24. Re: Student designers by "James, Brian" 25. swivel pipe couplers by Bill Schaffell 26. Re: Hemp vs other by "Bill Nelson" 27. Re: Hemp vs other by "Bill Nelson" 28. Difference in Slings by "James, Brian" 29. Dealing with Conflict WAS: Student designers by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" 30. Re: Difference in Slings by Bill Sapsis 31. Re: Hemp vs other by Bill Sapsis 32. Re: Difference in Slings by "James, Brian" 33. Re: Dealing with Conflict WAS: Student designers by Bill Sapsis 34. Re: Dealing with Conflict WAS: Student designers by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 06:26:31 -0400 From: Delbert Hall Reply-To: Delbert Hall Subject: Re: Public thanks to Delbert & Co. In-Reply-To: References: Thanks Jonathan. We had a great group so attendees too. -Delbert On 5/22/05, Jonathan S. Deull wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Kudos and thanks to Delbert Hall, Tracy Nunnally and the team at Northern > Illinois University for putting on an outstanding four-day performer flyi= ng > workshop under the auspices of the National Association of Flying Effects > Directors. It was filled with valuable information and real-life experien= ce > ranging from basic rigging principles and safety practices to an in-depth > and hand-on exploration of a number of different ways to put performers > safely into the air. We played with a range of simple and complex static > and dynamic systems including manual pendulum and track systems and some > very high-end automation. We also tied a lot of knots, pulled rigging > components apart with a big machine, load-tested rigs with a dynamometer, > had a tug-of war where one small woman outpulled 15 guys, electrocuted > pickles, and set a stunt man on fire. What more could you ask for? >=20 > Thanks to all who helped to put it together. >=20 > Jonathan > jdeull [at] clarktransfer.com >=20 >=20 >=20 --=20 Delbert Hall Phone: 423-773-4255 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050523113416.47233.qmail [at] web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 12:34:16 +0100 (BST) From: Tom Hares Subject: Re: Automatic Fly Systems In-Reply-To: If anyone is interested in learning more as to what a motorised flying system can do, have a look at the setup for Cirque du Soleil's new pice 'Ka' I've just finished reading it in this months Lighting and Sound International (and I'm sure it'll be in all the various trade press) and it's pretty impressive. Control is on the Nomad system from Stage Technologies http://www.stagetech.com/index.html Much as I like counterweight flying (though not the loading!) I'm tending towards a properly maintained motorised system as the way to go. ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Messenger - want a free and easy way to contact your friends online? http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050523113921.49836.qmail [at] web25704.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 12:39:21 +0100 (BST) From: Tom Hares Subject: Re: Automatic flying systems In-Reply-To: And continuing - maybe if there was some way of providing force feedback on the control surface rather than just a fader, you'd start to be able to 'feel' the load again, hopefully without the hemp splinters and arching muscles. Just a thought. :) ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4291C45C.9030407 [at] hillinteractive.net> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 07:54:04 -0400 From: Howard Ires Subject: Re: Automatic fly systems References: In-Reply-To: Bill Sapsis wrote: > (For my money there is nothing more elegant than a > properly run rope house>) A rope house, painted muslin flats, no amplification... now THAT's theater! Automated winches & fly's, moving lights, audio amplification - now THAT's high paid employment for us... Selling that stuff to high schools? The only benefit I see is to the manufacturers of the equipment, high schools aren't paying $/hr for hands to pull ropes and crank winches. It's been a long time since I pulled a line at Canarsie HS, and now I'm on a HS board and we're starting to look into building a new theater, and I'm more inclined to get the kids a nice grid, some shivs & bags & a couple coils of rope than automation. ------------------H ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Scheu Consulting Services" Subject: RE: Updating and Repairing a theater. Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 08:37:48 -0400 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: In-reply-to: Bill Sapsis wrote: >OK. I pick Peter. What game are we playing? I hope it's >Ollie ollie oxen free. I like that one. My favorite was "Red Light, Green Light", but that's too OT ;-) But seriously, folks... Just because your system is old doesn't mean it's unsafe. It's how it was used (or not) and maintained (or not). I just finished a job at a SUNY college where the fly system was over 30 years old. All that needed to be replaced were the handlines, wire rope, fittings, and the arbors with cast tops. Other than that, it was fine. The staff at the college knew how to maintain the system and how to use it properly. That being said, I will parrot some of the others on this list and strongly suggest that you get an independent inspector to evaluate your system, then provide a written report with recommendations. If you still decide to replace your whole system, get an independent consultant not tied to a dealer, sales rep, or manufacturer. "Pick me! Pick me!" ;-) Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. www.scheuconsulting.com Tel: 315.422.9984 fax: 413.513.4966 ------------------------------ Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 09:13:03 -0400 From: Matt DeLong Reply-To: Matt DeLong Subject: Re: Video Projector Placement In-Reply-To: References:

There was a good article about video in churches in this month's PLSN, but the advice of course can be taken into any venue. I'm not sure if it's available online, I can't locate it right now, but it's on page 36 of the May issue. Matt On 5/20/05, David Marks wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- >=20 > James, Brian wrote: >=20 > >All of the formulas I have found searching the web require having the pr= ojector specs handy, however that is a luxury I often do not have. > > > > >=20 > If you are near an internet connection, try www.projectorcentral.com. > They list all the manufacturers. Pick your projector and the spec sheet > appears. > At the throw distance, there is a little calculator icon. Click on it > and it > takes you to a great throw distance calculator for that projector, with > all sorts > of info. >=20 > Other than that, I've memorized the throw distances for most standard > projectors > and screen sizes. A 9x12 screen means the projector has to be between > 19.5 feet to > 25 feet for most projectors, etc. >=20 > Dave Marks >=20 > ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.0.20050523082214.01e25e00 [at] mail.insightbb.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 08:24:38 -0500 From: Mike Brubaker Subject: Re: Automatic fly systems In-Reply-To: References:

FWIW, both the Vortek system and PowerLift require you to push and hold a deadman pushbutton for anything to move in their system. Push the button and walk away, and nothing happens. Otherwise, as Bill writes "there's going to be problems." Mike At 08:09 PM 5/22/2005, Bill Sapsis wrote: >In a high school setting where the operator is permitted to push a button >and then walk back stage to talk to his/her girlfriend/boyfriend/whatever, >then there's going to be problems, And if you thought a run away arbor was ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.0.20050523082457.01e2bb10 [at] mail.insightbb.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 08:30:15 -0500 From: Mike Brubaker Subject: Re: Automatic fly systems In-Reply-To: References:

At 06:39 PM 5/22/2005, Greg Bierly wrote: >> My first complaint is that of the systems I've seen the largest number >> of battons that I could move at the same time was 2. Usually it's only >> one at a time with a dial switch. > >The new Vortek system installed in a local high school can move multiple >linesets at once in multiple directions with the use of a touchscreen >panel. I don't know how many. I believe that with their system that number is dependent on the power available. You can run 30 at the same time--if you have enough electricity. The control system, as I've seen it, does not inherently limit the number that can be run, although that can (and should) be programmed in. >>Four. When a batton snags for whatever reason, a motor doesn't know that >>and keeps moving. > >I was told the system has dynamic load measurement that could tell if it >fouled. I don't know this for a fact but sounded That is a central feature of the system--and it works well. We discussed this last fall sometime, I think, on this list. Mike ------------------------------ From: "Kevin Linzey" Subject: RE: Exporting VectorWorks to ACIS solids Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 09:46:49 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c55f9d$dece66a0$1101a8c0 [at] KLinzeypc> In-Reply-To: Joe, Vectorworks 11 can export IGES, SAT and several other 3D modeler formats. Try posting your question on the Nemetschek Tech Board. http://techboard.nemetschek.net/cgi/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi You will find several people that do this on a regular basis and can give you some guidance. Kevin ---------------------------- Kevin Linzey Nemetschek North America Integrated Products Engineer ----------------------------- > -----Original Message----- > From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Joe > Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2005 11:11 PM > To: Stagecraft > Subject: Exporting VectorWorks to ACIS solids > > > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > > --------------------------------------------------- > > We have part of a project that was created in Vectorworks. > The remainder will be designed in SolidWorks, which is a > solid modeler and will not import meshes. The VectorWorks > designer is not that familiar with issues like this, so may > not know how to give me a format that Solidworks can accept. > (any Solid modeler format should be acceptable, IGES, SAT, > Parasolid, etc) > > I realize it may not simply be an issue of exporting in a > particular format and expecting the model to translate. It > may involve changing 3-d objects inside of VectorWorks into > another internal format before exporting. Any suggestions I > can give to the VW designer? > > A secondary goal is to get the VW drawings in a format > where someone can open it is AutoCAD and edit it, complete > with dimensions and other annotation. > > > > Joe Dunfee joe [at] dunfee.com > Gordonville, Pennsylvania, U.S.A. > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <000a01c55faf$68370940$0200a8c0 [at] lpt> From: References: Subject: Automatic fly systems Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 10:52:20 -0500 Organization: Minnesota Ballet Thanks Greg! With all my concerns taken care of, I'd like to see this system. Still not sold on it, but now you got me curious. I took a cruise on my honeymoon and got to tour the theater on the ship. Fascinating that the fly system on ships has to be completely on T-tracks so that the batons can not swing if a big wave hits the ship. The thing that I didn't like was that the sound and lights were hooked up together and run on time code. All the tech guy did was hit play and the whole show ran itself. Pretty boring job if you ask me. And yet...some days you wish the show would run itself. Kenneth Pogin Production Manager Minnesota Ballet ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:56:02 -0400 From: MissWisc [at] aol.com Subject: Re: Updating and Repairing a theater. Message-ID: <4AED27C3.283E89F1.007B9F2A [at] aol.com> <> Not at all! It's the first theatre game I teach (Viola Spolin even endorsed it) beacuse it teaches body control, breath management, team work, strategy development, and self-discipline. For kids who've never been required to sit still and shut up, it's a good introduction to the self-control needed for theatre. Though we do play the "killer" version where any movement - even blinking, breathing, or hair moving - can be enough to send you back to start. Kristi ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050523085803.0297f0c8 [at] localhost> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 09:00:14 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: Automatic Fly Systems In-Reply-To: References:

At 04:34 AM 5/23/2005, you wrote: >Much as I like counterweight flying (though not the >loading!) I'm tending towards a properly maintained >motorised system as the way to go. Ah, "properly maintained". When a rope system is being replaced because it wasn't maintained for a couple of decades, I doubt the new system will do any better. Except, the new system will fail before a couple of decades. Hopefully the failure will be a "won't move" type, not a crash. ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ Message-ID: <4590d63e050523090675cd0963 [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 11:06:07 -0500 From: Warren Stiles Reply-To: Warren Stiles Subject: Re: Automatic fly systems In-Reply-To: References:

Kenneth, I've been working with the Vortek hoists by Hoffend lately, and I think they've overcome most of the limitations that you've mentioned. The last time I checked, JR Clancey was working on a similar system called the Powerlift which I haven't seen yet. does anyone know if this is on the market yet? > --------------------------------------------------- >=20 > Throwing my two bits (I've got more than just 2 cents) into motorized > battons: > I think they are wonderful for the electrics since they are usually the > heaviest, not including orchestra shells. It's nice to add a light or two > with out having to re-weight. But I do have some issues with motorized > battons. My first complaint is that of the systems I've seen the largest > number of battons that I could move at the same time was 2. =20 The Vortek is limited by the power available in the building more than by the control system. The last building I was in with Vorteks had 30 installed, but only enough power to run 10 at a time. > Second, I haven't seen a motorized batton that has a variable speed. The > scene changes take place at once pace only. Depending on which model you have, Vorteks are variable speed from 0 - 180 ft/min, on a single purchase system. Most units are 0-20 ft/min. > Third, getting a motorized batton with scenery to hit its mark just right= is > hard. On a drop coming in, if you don't get it just right the drop either > stops short, or hits the deck with a loud clank.=20 I've not yet had a problem with these units missing their mark. Surprisingly accurate. > Four. When a batton snags for whatever reason, a motor doesn't know that = and > keeps moving.=20 These units have an internal pressure plate (with 2 pressure sensors I believe) that monitors the weight on the pipe as it moves. The sensitivity can be adjusted at the control center to accommodate changes in weight. Once the batten is loaded, the system will run it up and down to map the acceleration and deceleration curves. Anything outside of that curve and beyond the sensitivity limits will cause the system to stop. At Hoffends beta testing site, I was able to put my hand out under a moving pipe and stop it within an inch of impact. While I wouldn't do the same with my skull, I don't know of many operators who could stop a moving batten that quickly. Each hoist has an independent processor, so a fault in one hoist will not adversely affect the rest of the system. > Five: I agree with June that there is more to a fly system. We'll all agr= ee > that there is more to a light board than just the "Go" button, so reducin= g > the fly system to just a button also seems limiting.Technical theatre is > also an art form.=20 While I do consider the Vortek to be an impressive piece of machinery, this should not be misconstrued as an endorsement. I do have several issues with this system. For example, one of their selling points with new construction is that you can save money by eliminating the grid and lowering your roof. Unfortunately, this also eliminates accessibility for maintenance. While I don't exactly consider running a flyrail to be an art form, I do consider it to be a highly specialized and respectable skill. I also miss the idea of having 2 eyes on every piece of moving scenery. G. Warren Stiles ------------------------------ Message-ID: <45c56d340505231044211fa06c [at] mail.gmail.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 13:44:23 -0400 From: Jared Fortney Reply-To: Jared Fortney Subject: harness sale FYI... For anyone looking to buy the Petzl V2 Bod harness, Cabela's has them on sale for $199.99. They've discontinued retail sale and I imagine they are clearing them out of their warehouse. I just talked to them and they have less than 5. -Jared Fortney Tech. Director Circus Smirkus 2005 Big Top Tour ------------------------------ From: Subject: dance lights for warmth Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 14:33:38 -0400 Message-Id: <20050523183336.THIU11036.lakermmtao01.cox.net [at] smtp.east.cox.net> >When I asked if it was necessary he made believe he couldn't >understand English I'da turned the lights off and wandered off, and left it up to him as to how much English he could muster when he needs to get something done. I'm all for being accomodating, but once co-operation begins to be a one-way street, it usually ends up going my way. Chris Babbie OTR Location Sound ------------------------------ From: Subject: Re: stagehands who don't understand... Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 14:38:50 -0400 Message-Id: <20050523183849.SBOB18139.lakermmtao08.cox.net [at] smtp.east.cox.net> >Although I have hesitance in saying it when it is true, I >always dislike saying" I don't know". On the other hand, if it is true, any reticence in admitting to it on the deck is a liability. Even after telling the locals that "I don't know' is a perfectly acceptable answer, and I'd much rather hear it than have it faked, I'd see them smile and nod and wander over to have a skritch. If you don't know, don't hesitate to tell me. Its how you get me to tell you, and you'll learn something new. "I don't know" carries with the implied, "so why don't you teach me." Chris Babbie OTR Location Sound ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Scheu Consulting Services" Subject: RE: Automatic fly systems Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:12:27 -0400 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: In-reply-to: A little late in the pool with this thread, but here's my .02. Wow... Mr. Pogin, did you have a bad day with a motorized system...? First of all, I assume we're talking about motorized systems here. The thought of an "automatic" fly system is downright frightening! He wrote: >If the theatre is going to used for multiple reasons, then I think=20 >more thought needs to go into getting a motorized fly system. Maybe they did think the design through (or not). If a theatre's only = used occasionally (like for the HS drama production, and a few band concerts) = why spend all that money? Just to accommodate the occasional out-of-town = ballet? Bad allocation of limited funds IMHO. 90% of the content of Mr. Pogin's comments are directed at control = systems. If he's dialing in speeds, or can only move two fixed speed battens at a time, it's a pretty "dumb" front end. In most high schools this is all that's needed. All of the bells and whistles needed to make a system viable speed with multiple battens in motion at one time, with soft stops and starts, and infinitely programmable trims, AND DOING IT SAFELY, is a pretty high end science. And a VERY costly one at that. High HP motors, inverters, sophisticated drives, computers, PLC's, interlocks, and programming, = etc... It don't come cheap. But if you think that a motorized fly system can't produce "art" because their not "sensitive enough", like a delicate stagehand's touch on a = rope controlling a counterweight set, you haven't see "O", or "Zoomanity" or "Ka". If you've got a few million dollars and want to create "art" with = motorized rigging, it can be done. Very well in fact, and very controllable. But I think we (the USA) are a LONG, LONG, LONG, ways away from seeing such systems on a school stage, or even in regional theatres. There just = isn't the need, nor is the money available. So in most theatres, motors are left to doing the everyday, boring grunt work. Raising and lowering electrics, storing an orchestra shell = ceiling, and the like. For 90% of the theatres out there in the US, a combination = of fixed speed motorized sets and manual counterweight sets, is the best, = most practical solution (IMHO). Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References:

Message-Id: From: Greg Bierly Subject: Re: Automatic fly systems Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 16:00:17 -0400 > All the tech guy did was hit play and the whole show ran itself. > Pretty boring job if you ask me. And yet...some days you wish the show > would run itself. I would imagine that would depend on the type of shows and size ship. I would imagine that would be the case for any prepackaged show. In fact I just finished reading an article on "Cruise Ship Programming" in April's PLSN (pg 55). Yes he does it all but has to be creative with all of the outside acts that come onto the ship. For me it would have been kinda a cool gig outta college but I'll want to wait until the kids are grown till I apply for a "tour" like that. Make sure my wife takes an on board job and we can work our way through retirement. Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS Greg Bierly Technical Director Hempfield HS ------------------------------ Message-ID: <20050523200344.75506.qmail [at] web50610.mail.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 13:03:44 -0700 (PDT) From: b Ricie Subject: Hemp vs other In-Reply-To: There is not much sweeter than a line that has just the right amount of sand in bag and runs like warm butter. The Cape Playhouse, in Dennis, MA. is a 3 line hemp house, and Bill is right, not too many people know how to run it. I manage a little bit of job security every year by teaching the newcomers the subtleties of the system. The only change to the system in the past 75 years has been some new blocks and new rope. I will say I do not miss the old hemp line and all the splinters that came with it. If anyone has never seen/run such a system, and find your self on the Cape, give a shout and I would be happy to give a tour. Aloha, Brian Rice >>Back in the day, as they say, a number of us were concerned that no one would ever remember how to run a "hemp" system. Well, nowadays, most people don't know how to run a hemp system and even though I love rope systems and would rather run one of them than anything else, I have to recognize that their day is done. (For my money there is nothing more elegant than a properly run rope house>)<< __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 16:22:43 -0400 From: Eddie Kramer Subject: Re: Automatic fly systems On 5/22/05 Bill Sapsis sent: >I have the only factory trained maintenance team in the US. The team has been in place for years. Factory trained to do what ? Work on your cars Hybrid ? Eddie -- -------------------- Eddie Kramer IATSE #1 Member NEC Panel 15 ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 16:32:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Automatic fly systems From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Don't I wish. Even scheduled maintenance on the Hybrid isn't cheap. No, my guys are trained at Clancy, ADC and Eurodrive. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html on 5/23/05 4:22 PM, Eddie Kramer at ESKramer [at] earthlink.net wrote: > Factory trained to do what ? Work on your cars Hybrid ? ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Subject: RE: Hemp vs other Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 14:31:56 -0700 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: THERE MAY BE HEMP OUT THERE STILL, IF IT IS NOT ALL SMOKED OR TURNED INTO CLOTHING, BUT WE ARE REFERRING TO MANILA, WHICH EVEN IN THE PAST TEN YEARS IS PRETTY BAD, OVERALL. DOOM -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of b Ricie Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 1:04 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Hemp vs other For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- There is not much sweeter than a line that has just the right amount of sand in bag and runs like warm butter. The Cape Playhouse, in Dennis, MA. is a 3 line hemp house, and Bill is right, not too many people know how to run it. I manage a little bit of job security every year by teaching the newcomers the subtleties of the system. The only change to the system in the past 75 years has been some new blocks and new rope. I will say I do not miss the old hemp line and all the splinters that came with it. If anyone has never seen/run such a system, and find your self on the Cape, give a shout and I would be happy to give a tour. Aloha, Brian Rice >>Back in the day, as they say, a number of us were concerned that no one would ever remember how to run a "hemp" system. Well, nowadays, most people don't know how to run a hemp system and even though I love rope systems and would rather run one of them than anything else, I have to recognize that their day is done. (For my money there is nothing more elegant than a properly run rope house>)<< __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ------------------------------ Message-ID: In-Reply-To: From: "Charles J Korecki" Subject: Re: Student designers Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 17:39:49 -0400 I know this thread is a little old, but I'd like to chime in here. If one of the concerns for not letting students design the shows is the potential lack of quality, then why not make it a competition. I have friends in various BFA programs where the faculty design the shows early in the semester. The final show of the semester is "up for grabs". Students interested in designing must submit their designs. The faculty then pick the design they like best. (Or the design that is most workable, with revision.) Charles J Korecki ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Student designers Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 18:10:12 -0400 Message-ID: From: "James, Brian" Something to consider......... If the concern is lack of quality, what does it say about the students = being sent out with a degree in hand? Where else would they get = experience? When they get fired for less than adequate designs? Or when = they do not get design opportunities because they have no design = portfolio to show? The other great opportunity that can be offered with allowing students = to design with the faculty is the inevitable conflict that will arise. = Even in the "real" world, you will have conflict with people that have = some sort of "power" over you (paycheck, reference, etc), isn't college = the time to learn how to handle these issues in an environment focused = on the education and development of the person. I would hope a college = faculty would be more forgiving of these mistakes and would help the = student grow and mature so that s/he is better equipped to deal with = post college life. -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Charles J Korecki Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 5:40 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Student designers For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- I know this thread is a little old, but I'd like to chime in here. If = one=20 of the concerns for not letting students design the shows is the = potential=20 lack of quality, then why not make it a competition. I have friends in=20 various BFA programs where the faculty design the shows early in the=20 semester. The final show of the semester is "up for grabs". Students=20 interested in designing must submit their designs. The faculty then = pick=20 the design they like best. (Or the design that is most workable, with=20 revision.) Charles J Korecki ------------------------------ Message-ID: <429259EA.10005 [at] earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:32:10 -0700 From: Bill Schaffell Subject: swivel pipe couplers I have had no luck finding a swivel coupler that will work on 1" sch 40 pipe. Doughty makes a 32mm size but it just a hair too small. Can any of you point me to a manufacturer that makes these? thanks b Bill Schaffell WJS Studios 909-986-2363 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1663.64.28.63.214.1116888972.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:56:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Hemp vs other From: "Bill Nelson" > There is not much sweeter than a line that has just > the right amount of sand in bag and runs like warm > butter. The Cape Playhouse, in Dennis, MA. is a 3 line > hemp house, and Bill is right, not too many people > know how to run it. I manage a little bit of job > security every year by teaching the newcomers the > subtleties of the system. The house where I do most of my tech work is a 5 set hemp house, but we have replaced the hemp with synthetic line and wire. I consider the system to be one of the most hazardous areas of the theatre, not because the system is inherently unsafe but because most people do not know how to adjust the weights when adding or removing items from the pipes. I spend a fair amount of time teaching others how to use the system safely, but most of them do not grasp the concept that the line load changes with trim height or that the load changes when you add or remove something from the pipe. The house is limited in that they do not have sufficient sandbags for all the sets at once and no provision for adjusting the amount of sand in the existing bags. The result is sets that are usually a too bit pipe heavy - making flying them out more of an effort than it should be. Bill ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1665.64.28.63.214.1116889136.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References:

Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 15:58:56 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Hemp vs other From: "Bill Nelson" > THERE MAY BE HEMP OUT THERE STILL, IF IT IS NOT ALL SMOKED OR TURNED INTO > CLOTHING, BUT WE ARE REFERRING TO MANILA, WHICH EVEN IN THE PAST TEN YEARS > IS PRETTY BAD, OVERALL. DOOM We still call them "hemp houses" even if there is no hemp or manila in the facility. The local house uses the modern lines that are used on sailboats. They are flexible, strong, relatively non-stretch and easy on the hands. Bill ------------------------------ Subject: Difference in Slings Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 20:47:49 -0400 Message-ID: From: "James, Brian" I was curious why the entertainment industry has used the span set style = sling as the standard for use? What is the advantages over the span set = style as apposed to the construction industry style sling? Is there a reason not to use the construction style sling? All I know about the construction style sling is that they are flat, and = are made differently. Any thoughts would be appreciated! ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: Dealing with Conflict WAS: Student designers Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 23:03:04 -0400 Message-ID: <004701c5600d$1d816db0$6801a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: =20 > The other great opportunity that can be offered with allowing=20 > students to design with the faculty is the inevitable=20 > conflict that will arise. Even in the "real" world, you will=20 > have conflict with people I'm glad you brought that up; I've been meaning to post about this. About two weeks ago, I got a phone call from a producer who said, in = effect, "Our lighting designer just walked out and our first tech rehearsal is tonight. Can you help us?" Now, I don't know what the designer's conflict with the director was, = nor do I care. For all I know, the director may have deserved to be left in = the lurch. ...But the actors didn't deserve to lose two rehearsals with lighting = while I was getting up to speed. The choreographer didn't deserve to lose her cleanup rehearsal because = we had to do a run-through instead, so I could actually see the show. The interns didn't deserve the extra work load caused by having to = modify the plot. The set designer didn't deserve to lose stage time while all that was = going on. All of those people (and, of course, the show) suffered because the = designer couldn't (or wouldn't) resolve his conflict with the director. ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 23:16:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Difference in Slings From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Brian. I think we would need a better description of a "construction style" sling. I don't need one to answer your question. I just need one to see if I'm right. <> Roundslings present a larger diameter than does a flat style sling. Roundslings also have a protective cover. If a flat style sling gets cut, especially while it's under a significant load, there's a very good chance that it will fail. If you damage the cover of a roundlsing you still have the core, which is the load bearing element in a roundsling. The other reason we use them is because they were what was available to the guy who needed something to hold up his truss at the last minute while he was on tour in Switzerland about 40 years ago. He was in a pub in the little hamlet of Eysin (outside Geneva. Go ahead. Check up on me.) pondering, out loud, what he could use to hold up his lighting. One of the locals, who worked for Spanset, overheard him and threw a 2m green hunk of polyester at him and said, "Here, try this." The rest is history. And a legend was born. Zat help? Maybe a little bit? Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html on 5/23/05 8:47 PM, James, Brian at bej [at] vt.edu wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see > --------------------------------------------------- > > I was curious why the entertainment industry has used the span set style sling > as the standard for use? What is the advantages over the span set style as > apposed to the construction industry style sling? > > Is there a reason not to use the construction style sling? > > All I know about the construction style sling is that they are flat, and are > made differently. > > Any thoughts would be appreciated! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 23:24:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Hemp vs other From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: The rope now most favored for rope houses (It does sound weird but it is more accurate than calling it a hemp house. I suppose I'll get used to it. Maybe.) is a double braided polyester rope. My brand is Spectrum ShowBraid. Once upon a time is was available in many colors so you could run your sets with a different color for each line. Made trimming really easy. The Colonial, in Boston, is like that as well as most of the other rope houses around here. Sadly, the Academy of Music in Philly was like that till they turned her into a counterweight house. <> Now it comes in white or black. The white can come in a tracer color so you can still identify the individual lines in the set, but not as easily. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html on 5/23/05 6:58 PM, Bill Nelson at billn [at] peak.org wrote: > We still call them "hemp houses" even if there is no hemp or manila in the > facility. The local house uses the modern lines that are used on > sailboats. They are flexible, strong, relatively non-stretch and easy on > the hands. ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Difference in Slings Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 23:29:33 -0400 Message-ID: From: "James, Brian" Your right, the construction folks use the flat style sling. They seem = pretty durable (according to spec sheets), but I can see your point = about the outer covering. -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Bill Sapsis Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 11:16 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Difference in Slings For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Brian. I think we would need a better description of a "construction = style" sling. I don't need one to answer your question. I just need one to = see if I'm right. <> Roundslings present a larger diameter than does a flat style sling. Roundslings also have a protective cover. If a flat style sling gets = cut, especially while it's under a significant load, there's a very good = chance that it will fail. If you damage the cover of a roundlsing you still = have the core, which is the load bearing element in a roundsling. The other reason we use them is because they were what was available to = the guy who needed something to hold up his truss at the last minute while = he was on tour in Switzerland about 40 years ago. He was in a pub in the little hamlet of Eysin (outside Geneva. Go ahead. Check up on me.) pondering, out loud, what he could use to hold up his lighting. One of = the locals, who worked for Spanset, overheard him and threw a 2m green hunk = of polyester at him and said, "Here, try this." The rest is history. And a legend was born. Zat help? Maybe a little bit? Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit = ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html on 5/23/05 8:47 PM, James, Brian at bej [at] vt.edu wrote: > For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see = > --------------------------------------------------- >=20 > I was curious why the entertainment industry has used the span set = style sling > as the standard for use? What is the advantages over the span set = style as > apposed to the construction industry style sling? >=20 > Is there a reason not to use the construction style sling? >=20 > All I know about the construction style sling is that they are flat, = and are > made differently. >=20 > Any thoughts would be appreciated! ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 23:35:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Dealing with Conflict WAS: Student designers From: Bill Sapsis Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Jeff, you're right, of course. But then again, life doesn't work in black and white. There's tons of grey (gray?) in between. I thought long and hard before the first time I quit a job. I knew it would create a problem for everyone. But I also knew that I would not be able to resolve the issue with the producer and that by continuing to work I would be subjecting my crew to unnecessary risks. In this case it was the ungodly hours they wanted us to work. Sleep time was in the truck going from one gig to another. They didn't bother with getting us hotel rooms. It was my understanding that before the next guy came on he made them alter the schedule to allow for overnights in a real hotel. I should mention that this was about 30 years ago. But the point remains the same. You simply don't always know what is coming down the pike at you. Sometimes it's great to stay and fight it out and sometimes, not a lot of times, just sometimes, it's good to run and live to fight another day. Bill S. www.sapsis-rigging.com 800.727.7471 800.292.3851 fax 267.278.4561 mobile Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html on 5/23/05 11:03 PM, Jeffrey E. Salzberg at stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com wrote: > All of those people (and, of course, the show) suffered because the designer > couldn't (or wouldn't) resolve his conflict with the director. ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" Subject: RE: Dealing with Conflict WAS: Student designers Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 23:35:52 -0400 Message-ID: <004801c56011$b2d521f0$6801a8c0 [at] Dell> In-Reply-To: > There's tons of grey (gray?) Greigh. ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #406 *****************************