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Stagecraft Digest, Issue #416

 1. Re: Building a Window
    by "Paul Guncheon" <paul.guncheon [at] verizon.net>
 2. Window lattice, muntins or mullions
    by "Dougherty, Jim" <jdougher [at] middlebury.edu>
 3. ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest
    by "Sarah Clausen" <sarah.clausen [at] etcconnect.com>
 4. Re: designer anniversaries for June
    by "Russel Drapkin" <russel [at] rpddesign.com>
 5. Re: MSDS Resources
    by "richard j. archer" <rja10 [at] cornell.edu>
 6. Re: MSDS Resources
    by Stephen Litterst <slitterst [at] ithaca.edu>
 7. Re: Another Stage Related Accident
    by "Scheu Consulting Services" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
 8. Re: Another Stage Related Accident - similar but less tragic incident
    by IAEG [at] aol.com
 9. Re: MSDS Resources
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
10. Re: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest
    by "Tony Deeming" <deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com>
11. Re: MSDS Resources
    by "Klyph Stanford" <klyphstanford [at] earthlink.net>
12. OT--varnish removal question
    by Jacqueline Haney Kidwell <jacki14fr [at] yahoo.com>
13. Re: OT--varnish removal question
    by "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
14. rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by "Storms, Randy" <rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu>
15. Re: OT--varnish removal question
    by Chuck Mitchell <chmitche [at] wisc.edu>
16. Re: OT--varnish removal question
    by doran [at] bard.edu
17. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by Mike Brubaker <mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com>
18. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>
19. Wisdom of the list
    by Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com
20. Re: Star*Par Vs. Source 4 Par
    by Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com
21. Re: rookie welder: structural engineering of steel platforms
    by Delbert Hall <delbert.hall [at] gmail.com>
22. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by Shawn Palmer <shawn.palmer [at] sbcglobal.net>
23. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by doran [at] bard.edu
24. Re: Technical -Position Description
    by Peter Simmel <simmel [at] maine.edu>
25. Soundtrack Pro
    by Steve Larson <tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com>
26. Re: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest
    by "Chris Warner" <bearz2 [at] cox.net>
27. Re: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest
    by "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
28. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
29. Re: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest
    by "Chris Warner" <bearz2 [at] cox.net>
30. Is this wise ? :)
    by "crewcall" <crewcall [at] tiscali.it>
31. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by "MIke Katz" <mkatz [at] MIT.EDU>
32. Re: Better Way to make a window frame?
    by Al Fitch <fitchal [at] yahoo.com>
33. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
34. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by "Secore, Scott" <Scott.Secore [at] EKU.EDU>
35. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
36. Re: Star*Par Vs. Source 4 Par
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
37. Re: Patch boxes
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
38. Re: re Dead Cat Soap
    by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
39. Re: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest
    by "Steve B." <sbmtbike [at] optonline.net>
40. Test - Please Ignore
    by "Jeremiah Minh Greenblatt" <roadhat [at] earthlink.net>
41. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by usctd [at] columbia.sc
42. Re: Soundtrack Pro
    by Jason Romney <jason [at] cd-romney.com>
43. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by Shawn Palmer <shawn.palmer [at] sbcglobal.net>
44. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net>
45. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net>
46. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by "Klyph Stanford" <klyphstanford [at] earthlink.net>
47. Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
    by Seth Richardson <sarvernon [at] adelphia.net>

*** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject
*** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to
*** one message subject in each reply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 02:50:30 -1000
From: "Paul Guncheon" <paul.guncheon [at] verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Building a Window
Message-id: <01db01c56771$a9556b00$0202a8c0 [at] lastpc>
References: <list-22800509 [at] prxy.net>

Kinda long... from a book I started to write many years ago:

<<Single Sided vs. Double Sided Windows


As these windows are built by scabbing across the joints of their various
parts, scabbing (attaching material across a joint) on both front and back
of the window can increase the strength of the window.  Double sided windows
like these are fairly strong and I recommend double siding when ever
possible even if the rear of the window will not be seen.  Certainly double
side the window if it's to be handled by an actor as part of the blocking,
or it's going to become a stock unit.  The scabbing material is from 1/4"
sheet goods and being 1/4" narrower than the base material, adds a "bump" to
the window design. increasing its "realism factor".





Building the Window


Let us look at building the 2' wide x 3 ' tall window.  For simplicity we'll
make this one a picture window, divided into four panes or "lites".
Although the dimensions can be changed to whatever suits your design, I
generally make the outer window frame out of 2" wide by 3/4" thick stock and
the mullions and muntons out of 1" (x 3/4" thick) material.  Picture windows
generally have the same size framing material on all sides.  So rip enough
 ¾" wood strips at 2" wide for your frame and 1" wide for your mullions and
muntons.  You can use plywood, any of the particulate boards, or solid
stock.  I prefer solid stock, but any material will pretty much do.



Next rip some 1/4" thick material at 1-3/4".  You will need enough of this
to go around the outer frame of the window once (for single sided units) or
twice (for double sided ones).  Again you can use any of the plywoods or
particle type boards but as this the part of the window the most exposed to
the audience, you'll want have a smooth finish. 1/4" plywood is best for
strength.





Rip more of the ¼" thick stock to ½" strips.  You will need a little more
than twice the length of the mullions and muntons for double-sided windows.



The window is specified 2' wide x 3' tall.  Generally when a window is
drawn, the dimension of the window frame alone without its jamb is
specified.



Your cutting list would be as follows.  The horizontal members of the window
would be 2 ft. long.  The vertical members would be 32 in. long or 2 feet 8
in. in length.  To assemble the frame I usually start by clamping the full
length framing piece (in this case one of the horizontal ones) to the edge
of the sheet of plywood or worktable at the corner.  I would than lay a
vertical piece along the edge at 90 degrees to the first, using the factory
edges of the plywood to square the window. At the other end of the vertical
peace placed the other horizontal squaring the joints with a framing square.
Apply glue across the two butt joints and along the length of the vertical.



Take a length of the 1-3/4" inch material 3 ft. long and brad nail it to the
frame flush to the outside edges.  Repeat this process for the other
vertical edge.  Fill in the horizontal spaces between one and three-quarters
inch verticals with more one and three-quarters inch strips.  Determine the
length of the strips by inspection, that is hold the piece in place markets
linked with a pencil.



With your tape measure or ruler, layout the position of the mullions.  Cut
the mullions to length by inspection.  (I usually make the horizontals
full-length and then determine the length of the verticals.)  The ¼" plywood
scab that is holding the outer frame together is ¼" narrower than the ¾"
stock, leaving a ¼" "reveal" along the interior edge.   Using the ½" ply
strips, make scabs by inspection to hold the mullions in place, centering
them on the mullion lengthwise and running them from one previously
installed scab to the other.  Glue and brad them in place.





Flip the window over and repeat the scabbing process if desired.  If you
wish to "glaze" the window, add the glazing material before you scab the
back.



Glazing


I have used a variety of materials for "glazing" windows for stage.
Plexiglas or other acrylic, plastic sheeting like Viskween, and window
screen, but never glass. I try to keep as little glass on stage as possible,
from hand props, to set props, to framed pictures and mirrors.



True story:  I was technical director for a comedy in which in one an
character, being "drunk", was trying to be sobered up by being forced to
drink coffee.  (Unbeknownst to the characters, the coffee had been spiked,
but that's not important here.)  There was a prominently placed drip coffee
maker center stage.  When rehearsals started, the director pulled a glass
coffee pot from stock and put it in the coffee maker.  I removed it and
replaced it with a metal one.  The next night, he pulled another glass pot
and substituted it for the metal one.  This went on daily for about a week.
I finally spoke to the director and during what became a rather heated
discussion I explained that I would not allow a glass pot on stage for two
simple reasons.  One, if the actor dropped or banged the pot and broke it,
there would be a danger of someone getting cut.  Two, as the coffee was so
important to the scene, if the pot was broken, the scene, and hence the
show, would stop.  The director assured me that the actor would not drop or
bang the pot.



Sure.



The director's concern was that he wanted the audience to "see" the coffee
in the pot.  It was real important to him that the audience "got" that it
was coffee.  I responded that "It's a coffee pot, it's in a coffee maker,
the word coffee is used by the actors at least a dozen times, there's a
brown liquid that comes out of the pot when poured into coffee mugs, what do
you think the audience is going to think it is?"



I eventually had to go to the prop room and remove all of the glass coffee
pots from the various coffee makers and hide them.  (Prop rooms of the world
seem to have more coffee makers than necessary. and more pots that makers.
It seems that when the front office or anybody who works for the theatre
gets a new one, the old one goes into props.)



I took a certain amount of perverse pride when, on opening night, in the
middle of the pivotal scene where it's all about the coffee, the actor
dropped the pot.



I think nothing feels quite as satisfying as seeing a director get that "I
told you so" look you have in your eye.>>



Laters,



Paul



"This tuna is excellent," said Tom superficially.




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:13:16 -0400
Subject: Window lattice, muntins or mullions
From: "Dougherty, Jim" <jdougher [at] middlebury.edu>
Message-ID: <BEC47E2C.15A1%jdougher [at] middlebury.edu>

One way I've started using to make windows for the stage, especially the
joint between the muntins (lattice) and the frame, is with pocket screws and
a Kreg jig.  It is a system that guides a special drill bit at a shallow
angle through the lattice piece, and screws to hold it to the frame.  It's
strong, fast and pretty accurate, which I like.  It will work on materials
as thin as 1/2".  The downside (although not everyone will see it as one) is
that you have to buy another tool and special fasteners.  One other
advantage that it shares with biscuit joinery is that you cut your pieces to
exact length - you don't have to leave extra material for a tenon.  That
simplifies making a cut list.

The problem with a biscuit joiner for this project is not that the slot is
only 1/8" thick.  If you're using it to make a complete mortise, you're
missing the point of the tool (and you'll end up making shallow tenons with
a curved end on each lattice piece.  Blech.).  The smallest width on most
joiners, though, is over 2" wide, and that's much wider than your 1".  Some
joiners can use special narrow biscuits but you also need to change the
blade, and that seems like a waste of your time if you're only making one
window or only have one joiner.

As someone else suggested, you can make notches on the back of the inside
frame piece, into which the completed lattice will fit.  Then it can be
screwed and glued in place.  You can set up a router or radial arm saw to do
this quickly and accurately, and that will help keep the lattice nice and
square, too.

All of this stuff is pretty fast; you should have plenty of time to finish
by next Monday or Tuesday - assuming, of course, that this is the only
project you're working on and can devote your full attention to it.  And we
know what happens when one assumes.

Good luck, and let us know which method you finally use.

-  Jim Dougherty
ATD, Middlebury College Theatre Department


------------------------------

Subject: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:18:25 -0500
Message-ID: <0B70E9798A3B4E4080E46327FA359F2194BE68 [at] MIDL-MAILV.etcconnect.com>
From: "Sarah Clausen" <sarah.clausen [at] etcconnect.com>

Hi all -

Long time no post (and then I go shamelessly commercial when I do,
what's happened to me....) I had the pleasure of meeting some of you at
the USITT conference this year - it was great to put faces to the
signatures! Some of you had the opportunity to see a demonstration of
our newest console, the Congo. I thought I'd pass along a link to PLSN
for a press release we've put out regarding Congo's final beta test.

http://plsn.net/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/848106391/m/774109555

I hope everyone is having a great start to their summer!

Sarah

Sarah Clausen
Product Manager
Electronic Theatre Controls, Inc.

------------------------------

Reply-To: <russel [at] rpddesign.com>
From: "Russel Drapkin" <russel [at] rpddesign.com>
Subject: RE: designer anniversaries for June
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:39:59 -0400
Organization: Russel Drapkin Lighting Designer
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAzc5fcTM1ekm9Zzdr3wKbKsKAAAAQAAAA2dO6bwVamUyevU/NCeQnvQEAAAAA [at] rpddesign.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-22800509 [at] prxy.net>

Heh.. He'll be here all week, the 7:30 show is completely different from the
9:30 show. We swear.

-Russel


>From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
> Or are there two Abe Feders?  :)
>...And if one's in a bad mood, does that make him a cross Feder?

==============================
Russel Drapkin 
USA Lighting Designer
92 Pinehurst Avenue #4D
New York, New York 10033
(212) 543-2514 
russel [at] rpddesign.com
AIM: RusselDrapkinLD


------------------------------

Message-Id: <p05210601bec4bc72dcfb [at] [132.236.252.58]>
In-Reply-To: <list-22784234 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-22784234 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 08:42:21 -0500
From: "richard j. archer" <rja10 [at] cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: MSDS Resources

>
>Hello all.  I am starting to collect and organize MSDS's here in our
>shop and I need some guidance.
>
>
>
>Mike Wade
>Daedalus Design and Production Inc.
>mike [at] focusnote.com


Lot's of online sites.  Here at Cornell they keep an online 
searchable database of about  250,000 items.  Departments are 
supposed to send over anything we get in but compliance is not 
enforceable since  there is no central control over what is shipped 
into this large university.

Dick A.
TD, Cornell Univ

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 09:55:42 -0400
From: Stephen Litterst <slitterst [at] ithaca.edu>
Subject: Re: MSDS Resources
Message-id: <429F0FDE.ACB78D44 [at] ithaca.edu>
Organization: IC-Dept. of Theatre Arts
References: <list-22784234 [at] prxy.net> <list-22803548 [at] prxy.net>

"richard j. archer" wrote:
> ---------------------------------------------------

> Lot's of online sites.  Here at Cornell they keep an online
> searchable database of about  250,000 items.  Departments are
> supposed to send over anything we get in but compliance is not
> enforceable since  there is no central control over what is shipped
> into this large university.

Here at IC, the college has retained an outside EH&S company to
maintain our MSDS inventory.  They have an 800 number which we have
posted on every phone in the production area.  If you need to know
anything about a chemical, you can call and they'll answer your
questions and/or fax you the relevant MSDS.  

The main burden this lifts from us is having to keep current on
*every* MSDS. Companies update and change their MSDS's constantly it
gets overwhelming to keep the book up-to-date.  Now all we have to do
is a yearly inventory and contact our rep anytime we get a new
chemical or hazmat during the interim.

Steve Litterst

-- 
Stephen C. Litterst
Technical Supervisor
Ithaca College
Dept. of Theatre Arts
607/274-3947
slitterst [at] ithaca.edu

------------------------------

Reply-To: <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
From: "Scheu Consulting Services" <peter [at] scheuconsulting.com>
Cc: Doomster [at] worldnet.att.net (Randall Davidson)
Subject: RE: Another Stage Related Accident
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:18:24 -0400
Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
Message-ID: <!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAAFIzFiG12TU6sr87xtBG2l8KAAAAQAAAAtlsPaA8Tv0OHYR/lm6U3kQEAAAAA [at] scheuconsulting.com>
In-reply-to: <list-22787468 [at] prxy.net>

More sketchy details below from the Daily Star, the daily newspaper in
Oneonta, NY, the closest "city" to Afton.

Again, the counterweight system is double purchased, operated from a
"catwalk" - really the top of room/storage area - offstage. I suspect =
that
there being 2X the weight in the arbor than on-stage, the overbalance =
was
significant.

And the natural reaction to hold on to the line and control set as it
started to run took over, rather than to just get away from the falling
arbor. Mr. Kappel apparently held on until he hit the bottom of the =
loading
gallery above, and then fell back to the concrete.

It's what can happen when we take our eyes off the ball, or training is
lacking. Very sad and very avoidable.

Peter Scheu

Scheu Consulting Services, Inc.
www.scheuconsulting.com
Tel: 315.422.9984
fax: 413.513.4966


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

A Norwich man died in a fall Tuesday at Afton Central School while =
working
in the school's auditorium, state police at Sidney said Wednesday.=20

Martin W. Kappel, 51, a self-employed technical theater worker, was on a
10-foot catwalk above the stage area working on the lighting system at =
about
1:10 p.m. He failed to remove the counterweights from a pulley system, =
and
when he released a brake, the weights dropped to a lower pulley, police
said.

Kappel was thrown 20 feet into a steel girder on the ceiling before =
falling
to the concrete catwalk, where he hit his head, troopers said.

State police Senior Inv. Ricky Charles said Wednesday that no one =
witnessed
the accident but that two janitors were below Kappel on the stage. He =
said
no students were in the auditorium at the time.

Charles said Kappel was working for the school district on lighting
previously installed by a subcontractor.

"It's my understanding that he was just there adjusting things," Charles
said.

Charles said he did not know if Kappel was being paid for his services =
or if
he was working in a volunteer capacity.

Kappel was pronounced dead at The Hospital in Sidney from massive head
trauma, police said.

Afton Superintendent Elizabeth Briggs said she did not want to comment =
on
the details of the incident. "It was a tragedy, and our thoughts go out =
to
the family," Briggs said. She said the school had grief counselors =
available
for staff and students Wednesday.

Kappel taught occasional classes in the area on theater, stage lighting =
and
set design, and he also provided lighting and design services to =
schools,
theaters and dance companies.

Martina Anderson, associate director of communications at Hartwick =
College,
said Kappel taught a course last summer at the college's Pine Lake
Environmental Campus.

"He was scheduled to teach courses there this summer," Anderson said. =
"Over
the years, Kappel has several times served as a guest instructor in =
theater
arts at Hartwick."

Kappel is survived by his wife and two sons, according to an obituary.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D



------------------------------

From: IAEG [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1f4.af6d150.2fd07243 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:31:31 EDT
Subject: Re: Another Stage Related Accident - similar but less tragic incident


In a message dated 6/2/05 10:19:16 AM, peter [at] scheuconsulting.com writes:

<< Again, the counterweight system is double purchased, operated from a
"catwalk" - really the top of room/storage area - offstage. I suspect that
there being 2X the weight in the arbor than on-stage, the overbalance was
significant.

And the natural reaction to hold on to the line and control set as it
started to run took over, rather than to just get away from the falling
arbor. Mr. Kappel apparently held on until he hit the bottom of the loading
gallery above, and then fell back to the concrete. >>



as a "youngster"  (16 maybe?) I recall something similar happening to me with 
a double purchase system.

I was alone in the theatre, and went to adjust a light weight drop that was 
"floating" above the deck.

I had no idea how far out of weight it was.

I released the brake and was lifted off of my feet immediately

I caught my toes under the locking rail and was for a moment ( it seemed like 
an eternity I assure you! ) I was being stretched out,  holding on with my 
hands to the rope on one end, and my toes on the locking rail at the other end.

I yelled and screamed for help, not wanting to let go and let the system run 
and crash, until I realized that there was no one else in the theatre to help

I eventually somehow managed to get the lock on, and step up on the rail.

I had to peel my fingers off the rope and my legs were wobbly for almost two 
hours after the incident.

needless to say, some lessons learned;

a   the "buddy system" is a good idea and works well in the theatre as well 
as in the water!

b   don't ever, ever, ever leave a line set that far out of weight!

c   check by "feel" an "unknown" line set before unlocking, , , 


please! 


very best,

Keith Arsenault

IAEG -  International Arts & Entertainment Group 
Tampa, Florida

------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050602080515.029e3320 [at] 192.168.0.13>
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 08:07:13 -0700
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: MSDS Resources
In-Reply-To: <list-22803768 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-22784234 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-22803548 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-22803768 [at] prxy.net>

At 06:55 AM 6/2/2005, you wrote:
>The main burden this lifts from us is having to keep current on
>*every* MSDS. Companies update and change their MSDS's constantly it
>gets overwhelming to keep the book up-to-date.  Now all we have to do
>is a yearly inventory and contact our rep anytime we get a new
>chemical or hazmat during the interim.

Since MSDS's change often and the changes go into a central store...is 
there any requirement for notice to users that there WAS a 
change?  Actually, is there a requirement that anyone read the MSDS?  I 
must admit I haven't read the MSDS on sand or water lately so I don't know 
if there are any changes.


----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free:  1 866 356-3886
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

From: "Tony Deeming" <deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com>
Subject: RE: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:08:46 +0100
Message-ID: <ODEMKLAMIBKNHPJLNKDPCEOBCJAA.deeming.tony [at] btinternet.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-22803170 [at] prxy.net>



-----Original Message-----
From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Sarah
Clausen
Sent: 02 June 2005 14:18
To: Stagecraft
Subject: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest


For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Hi all -

Long time no post (and then I go shamelessly commercial when I do,
what's happened to me....) I had the pleasure of meeting some of you at
the USITT conference this year - it was great to put faces to the
signatures! Some of you had the opportunity to see a demonstration of
our newest console, the Congo. I thought I'd pass along a link to PLSN
for a press release we've put out regarding Congo's final beta test.

http://plsn.net/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/848106391/m/774109555

I hope everyone is having a great start to their summer!

Sarah


I understand that the first console in the UK is to go to a local venue near
me this month - my daughters are dancing in a show this weekend there, so
I've been chatting with one of the house techs who can't wait to get a hold
of it!!

8-)

Ynot



------------------------------

Message-ID: <003c01c5678d$15d7efd0$0800a8c0 [at] Klyphsmachine>
Reply-To: "Klyph Stanford" <klyphstanford [at] earthlink.net>
From: "Klyph Stanford" <klyphstanford [at] earthlink.net>
References: <list-22784234 [at] prxy.net> <list-22803548 [at] prxy.net> <list-22803768 [at] prxy.net> <list-22805037 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: MSDS Resources
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 12:06:38 -0400


Jerry Durand  asked : "Actually, is there a requirement that anyone read the 
MSDS?  "

I would think the law could be interpreted that any supervisor instructing 
an employee to use a chemicall would be required to know the potential 
hazards of that substance.  Otherwise, how could he/ she instruct her/ him 
in it's proper use?

I am sure Dr. Doom could shed some light.
\
Klyph 



------------------------------

Message-ID: <20050602165118.50629.qmail [at] web52003.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 09:51:18 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jacqueline Haney Kidwell <jacki14fr [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: OT--varnish removal question

There are drips on my bathroom floor from the
refinishing of the door.  It might be urethane, it
could be varnish or shellac.  Mineral spirits didn't
budge it, nor did acetone.  Any ideas how to remove
these spots that are annoying me so much?  It's
generic vinyl flooring, and I don't want to gouge it.

Whoever last worked on the house we rent did a lousy
job on a lot of things.  There was drywall compound
caked in the toilet, most of the windows painted shut,
etcetera.  And when the freezer with icemaker was
taken out of the basement, the water supply was left
drizzling into the dirt floor.

           Jacki

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

------------------------------

Message-ID: <000701c56797$ce82fa20$0600000a [at] BRUTUS>
From: "Jon Ares" <jonares [at] hevanet.com>
References: <list-22807145 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: OT--varnish removal question
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:23:35 -0700

> Whoever last worked on the house we rent did a lousy
> job on a lot of things.  There was drywall compound
> caked in the toilet,

I feel your pain... my tub/shower was re-tiled a number of years ago, and 
the contractor used the toilet as his wash-basin.  It has caked mastic and 
grout in it.....

     -- Jon Ares
Program Director, West Linn HS Theatre Arts
www.hevanet.com/acreative
www.wlhstheatre.org 


------------------------------

Subject: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 10:35:55 -0700
Message-ID: <555928311F8B2943B65FC7197942C3B7323AD1 [at] es1.bsdnet.wednet.edu>
From: "Storms, Randy" <rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu>

I'm planning to make the jump from lumber to steel for Noises Off this =
summer.  I've seen some touring sets constructed from ~1" square tubing, =
so I thought I'd start there; but this will be my first experience =
designing with steel, and I'm a bit nervous about the engineering of it.

Are there some basic rules of thumb?  Any good on-line resources?  The =
Backstage Handbook has some information, but not enough to really get me =
rolling.

To narrow the question:  suppose you are constructing a 4'W x 8'L x 8'H =
platform from 1" square tubing, with a 3/4" plywood deck, with the idea =
that 5-6 adult actors could at some point be jumping around on it. =20
At what interval should the uprights be spaced?  Are diagonals =
necessary?  Would it be better to use a different size tube? =20

As this project will also require that I learn how to weld, I could use =
some guidance with that, too:  What is the most appropriate flavor of =
welding apparatus for the project as described?  Oxyacetylene?  MIG?  or =
???  (fear not, I *will* be getting some actual instruction before =
beginning). =20

"I'll quit when they make me stop trying new stuff..."
-- r.

Randy Storms
rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu




------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:37:26 -0500
From: Chuck Mitchell <chmitche [at] wisc.edu>
Subject: RE: OT--varnish removal question
In-reply-to: <list-22807145 [at] prxy.net>
Message-id: <000001c56799$be51db60$0be25c90 [at] Chuck>

In my house, other than when I am remodeling, is that such marks become
part of the history of the house!

Chuck Mitchell
Scene Studio Supervisor
University Theatre-University of Wisconsin Madison
608-263-3330
FAX 608-265-4075



"There are drips on my bathroom floor from the
refinishing of the door.  It might be urethane, it
could be varnish or shellac.  Mineral spirits didn't
budge it, nor did acetone.  Any ideas how to remove
these spots that are annoying me so much? " 


------------------------------

Message-ID: <1117733907.429f4413231ae [at] webmail.bard.edu>
Date: Thu,  2 Jun 2005 13:38:27 -0400
From: doran [at] bard.edu
Subject: Re: OT--varnish removal question
References: <list-22807145 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-22807145 [at] prxy.net>

Jacki,

Have you tried regular old isopropyl alcohol 70%?  Way back in the 70's, 
Armstrong used to recommend that for the wiping away of their logos and 
information that used to be stamped on their vinyl flooring.  Manufacturers 
also recommend ammonia to clean and maintain their linoleum sheet and 
tile floors. 

I knew that those job experiences would come in handy some day

Good luck,
Andy Champ-Doran


Quoting Jacqueline Haney Kidwell <jacki14fr [at] yahoo.com>:
> There are drips on my bathroom floor from the
> refinishing of the door.  It might be urethane, it
> could be varnish or shellac.  Mineral spirits didn't
> budge it, nor did acetone.  Any ideas how to remove
> these spots that are annoying me so much?  It's
> generic vinyl flooring, and I don't want to gouge it.
>             Jacki




------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.0.14.0.20050602124346.01e1f358 [at] mail.insightbb.com>
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:45:32 -0500
From: Mike Brubaker <mdbrubaker [at] insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
In-Reply-To: <list-22807918 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-22807918 [at] prxy.net>

Get a copy of Holden and Sammler's "Structural Design for the Stage".  I 
believe that Broadway Press carries it, along with some other members of 
the list.

MIke

At 12:35 PM 6/2/2005, Storms, Randy wrote:

>Are there some basic rules of thumb?  Any good on-line resources?  The 
>Backstage Handbook has some information, but not enough to really get me 
>rolling.


------------------------------

Subject: RE: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:49:16 -0400
Message-ID: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0196C82D [at] exchange.rmwc.edu>
From: "Paul Schreiner" <pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu>

> To narrow the question:  suppose you are constructing a 4'W x=20
> 8'L x 8'H platform from 1" square tubing, with a 3/4" plywood=20
> deck, with the idea that 5-6 adult actors could at some point=20
> be jumping around on it. =20
> At what interval should the uprights be spaced?  Are=20
> diagonals necessary?  Would it be better to use a different=20
> size tube? =20

The answers to this kinda depend on what's going on around the platform
in question...is the rest of the set lumber or steel frame?  How does
this tie in with the remainder?  How is access gained to this height?
And so on...

Though I should add that my gut instinct would be to look at something
beefier than 1" square...

> As this project will also require that I learn how to weld, I=20
> could use some guidance with that, too:  What is the most=20
> appropriate flavor of welding apparatus for the project as=20
> described?  Oxyacetylene?  MIG?  or ???  (fear not, I *will*=20
> be getting some actual instruction before beginning). =20

I've never tried oxyacetylene.  I learned first with a stick, and use a
MIG regularly.  Which you start with is kinda like learning to drive on
a manual transmission...if you learn how to drive a stick, you can drive
anything, while learning the automatic (read: MIG) first just means you
still have to develop stick skills for those larger projects that a MIG
normally won't handle.

------------------------------

Subject: Wisdom of the list
Message-ID: <OF6BD0C6AD.62950978-ON85257014.0061D9B5-85257014.006280B4 [at] sarasotagov.com>
From: Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:55:56 -0400


Our local School Board Maintenance Department wants to issue an RFP for
repair & maintenance of school (lots of them) theatrical equipment -
basically Lighting & Sound. I used to do a lot of that work and they've
asked me to help write the proposal spec's. Anyone out there done this
before or have suggestions? Please reply off list.

Thanks,

Marty Petlock
Technical Facilities Manager
Van Wezel P.A.H.
Sarasota, FL.

**********
E-mail messages sent or received by City of Sarasota officials and
employees in connection with official City business
are public records subject to disclosure under the Florida Public Records
Act.
**********



------------------------------

Subject: Re: Re: Star*Par Vs. Source 4 Par
Message-ID: <OF48DB744E.4E5A3378-ON85257014.0062B136-85257014.0062BEDA [at] sarasotagov.com>
From: Marty_Petlock [at] sarasotagov.com
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:58:35 -0400


ETC vs Altman? Oh puhlease.

Marty Petlock
Technical Facilities Manager
Van Wezel P.A.H.
Sarasota, FL.

**********
E-mail messages sent or received by City of Sarasota officials and
employees in connection with official City business
are public records subject to disclosure under the Florida Public Records
Act.
**********



------------------------------

Message-ID: <b7318c4805060211165c054335 [at] mail.gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:16:03 -0400
From: Delbert Hall <delbert.hall [at] gmail.com>
Reply-To: Delbert Hall <delbert.hall [at] gmail.com>
Subject: Re: rookie welder: structural engineering of steel platforms
In-Reply-To: <list-22807918 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-22807918 [at] prxy.net>

Randy,

It has been a while since I constructed platforms from steel, but when
I was at the Univ. of Florida we used 1.5" square tubing (16 guage)
for the frames and legs on platforms.  I have also used platforms
constructed from 1" x 2" rectangular tubing.  These were very strong
and I liked them a lot.  If your platform is going to be legged to a
height of 8 feet, you will definately need cross bracing on the legs.

I prefer MIG welding over oxyacetylene, but both should work well.  I
am sure that others on the list will offer their opinions on what size
and style of steel they prefer.  Try out several sizes of steel and
designs, and see which you feel most comfortable with.

Good luck.

-Delbert
 =20

On 6/2/05, Storms, Randy <rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu> wrote:
> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>=20
> I'm planning to make the jump from lumber to steel for Noises Off this su=
mmer.  I've seen some touring sets constructed from ~1" square tubing, so I=
 thought I'd start there; but this will be my first experience designing wi=
th steel, and I'm a bit nervous about the engineering of it.
>=20
> Are there some basic rules of thumb?  Any good on-line resources?  The Ba=
ckstage Handbook has some information, but not enough to really get me roll=
ing.
>=20
> To narrow the question:  suppose you are constructing a 4'W x 8'L x 8'H p=
latform from 1" square tubing, with a 3/4" plywood deck, with the idea that=
 5-6 adult actors could at some point be jumping around on it.
> At what interval should the uprights be spaced?  Are diagonals necessary?=
  Would it be better to use a different size tube?
>=20
> As this project will also require that I learn how to weld, I could use s=
ome guidance with that, too:  What is the most appropriate flavor of weldin=
g apparatus for the project as described?  Oxyacetylene?  MIG?  or ???  (fe=
ar not, I *will* be getting some actual instruction before beginning).
>=20
> "I'll quit when they make me stop trying new stuff..."
> -- r.
>=20
> Randy Storms
> rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20


--=20
Delbert Hall
Phone: 423-773-4255

------------------------------

Message-ID: <429F4D8D.8070808 [at] sbcglobal.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 13:18:53 -0500
From: Shawn Palmer <shawn.palmer [at] sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
References: <list-22807918 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-22807918 [at] prxy.net>

>As this project will also require that I learn how to weld, I could use
>some guidance with that, too:  What is the most appropriate flavor of
>welding apparatus for the project as described?  Oxyacetylene?  MIG?
>or ???  (fear not, I *will* be getting some actual instruction before
>beginning).
>
>"I'll quit when they make me stop trying new stuff..."
>-- r.
>
>Randy Storms
>rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu

In my 'other' line of work, I've got a shop with various flavors of
welders.  For this, I'd say MIG (or GMAW.)  The 'G' obviously means gas-
I'd vote against flux-cored arc welding with the MIG machine.  It isn't
as nice and will require more clean up.  MIG will probably be the
easiest to learn.  ARC will be the next easiest, and last would be TIG
(or GTAW.)

You can get a new Miller Millermatic 135 MIG welder (which should work
for this and is kind of portable) for a shade over $600.  Hobart, which
is owned by Miller, isn't as 'fancy' and is quite a bit cheaper.  You
can get a Hobart MIG similar to the Millermatic 135 for under $300 at
places like Harbor Freight.  These units have a 20% duty cycle, though,
so to increase the speed of your fabrication you may have to go to a
larger unit (or get multiple smaller units.)  The 175 (at 230VAC) has a
30% duty cycle.   I grew up on Miller, and have only occasionally used
Lincoln.  They look to be about the same, I guess.  Never used an ESAB
other than as a cutting torch.

FWIW
Shawn Palmer
Neenah, WI
USA












------------------------------

Message-ID: <1117737720.429f52f820b7d [at] webmail.bard.edu>
Date: Thu,  2 Jun 2005 14:42:00 -0400
From: doran [at] bard.edu
Subject: Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
References: <list-22807918 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-22807918 [at] prxy.net>

Randy,

You might try contacting your local steel supplier.  You'll find that they have 
lots of engineering data for what they have, and you might be able to swing 
a hard copy of a steel catalogue from them.  At the very least, they can 
point you to manufacturers web sites, and fax you data and catalogue 
pages.  They will also be able to make suggestions on which is their best 
product to use for your applications.

As far as learning goes, while I am not a certified welder, I did learn on a 
Lincoln 225 Arc welder (that's stick to you and me).  From my experience, 
stick is harder to learn on, but once you learn that, you can pretty much 
learn the other types of welding pretty easily.  It's cheap to get into, much 
cheaper than MIG, for example.  Figure around $400-$500 to get rolling, 
and you don't have to mess with a bunch of compressed gas tanks.  That 
makes it more portable, too.  

Also, while it's harder to weld with stick, it is much easier to see your 
mistakes.  I think this is very important when you and your students are 
learning.

Whatever you do, practice, practice, practice.  Burn up lots of rod or wire, 
lots of scrap steel, and cut it and grind it to see what you're doing right and 
wrong.  Get advice from experienced welders.  And be careful with your 
safety.  Use all of the Personal Protective Equipment suggested, including 
long sleeves and proper gloves. 


Good luck,
Andy Champ-Doran




Quoting "Storms, Randy" <rstorms [at] bham.wednet.edu>:
> thought I'd start there; but this will be my first experience designing with
> steel, and I'm a bit nervous about the engineering of it.
> Are there some basic rules of thumb?  Any good on-line resources? > 
Would it be better to use a different size tube?  
> As this project will also require that I learn how to weld, I could use some
> guidance with that, too:  What is the most appropriate flavor of welding
> apparatus for the project as described?  Oxyacetylene?  MIG?  or ???  
(fear
> not, I *will* be getting some actual instruction before beginning).  
> 
> "I'll quit when they make me stop trying new stuff..."
> -- r.



------------------------------

Message-Id: <p06020405bec4c257c234 [at] [130.111.92.4]>
In-Reply-To: <list-22777629 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-22757927 [at] prxy.net> <list-22777629 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 14:52:49 -0500
From: Peter Simmel <simmel [at] maine.edu>
Subject: Re: Technical -Position Description

  We are in the process of developing a Job Description for a new 
position - Head of Design Scenic-Lighting and Costumes- here in the 
Theatre Dept to be sent out in the Fall (2005) with
the position beginning in the Fall of 2006. It will be a tenured 
track position with teaching responsibilities.  What we would like is 
to see what other descriptions people have developed in the past for 
this type of position.

We are familiar with ARTSEARCH and the Chronicle and will be looking 
for similar job descriptions in developing our own. The job 
responsibilities, number of courses to be taught, educational 
requirements, resume, cover letter, references etc. we feel 
comfortable with in knowing
what part they have in the description.

What would be most helpful is some feedback in regards to any 
"format" standards for Technical position applications. Is the 
standard for design Portfolios now "electronic" (CD, DVD -both 
platforms PC/Mac)?  Are "paper" designs, renderings, production 
pictures and programs etc. still acceptable for Technical positions?

You can reply off List with similar job descriptions you have, or 
others you might have used
in developing your own. We have the entire summer to develop this 
description but feel some need to initiate the process now given the 
other major change that is also occurring -the University is
changing over to a four credit course model starting in the Fall of 2006.

Thanks for your help

Peter Simmel
Professor-Theatre
U of M





------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:26:35 -0400
Subject: Soundtrack Pro
From: Steve Larson <tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com>
Message-ID: <BEC4D5AB.5BF3%tiptd [at] theatreinthepark.com>

Anyone on the list familiar with Soundtrack Pro.
It's a new application from Apple designed to
work in conjunction with the Final Cut Pro software.
It will work alone for multi-track sound editing.

Another note: Adobe is taking over Macromedia
later this year.  Imagine buying a company just
to get Flash.

Steve


------------------------------

Message-ID: <0b9001c567ae$f37bbb70$6401a8c0 [at] chris>
From: "Chris Warner" <bearz2 [at] cox.net>
References: <list-22803170 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:09:15 -0700

ANy links to pictures, or technical data for the console? Nothing on the
website as of yet.

Thanks in advance.
Chris Warner

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sarah Clausen" <sarah.clausen [at] etcconnect.com>
To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 6:18 AM
Subject: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest


For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
---------------------------------------------------

Hi all -

Long time no post (and then I go shamelessly commercial when I do,
what's happened to me....) I had the pleasure of meeting some of you at
the USITT conference this year - it was great to put faces to the
signatures! Some of you had the opportunity to see a demonstration of
our newest console, the Congo. I thought I'd pass along a link to PLSN
for a press release we've put out regarding Congo's final beta test.

http://plsn.net/eve/ubb.x/a/tpc/f/848106391/m/774109555

I hope everyone is having a great start to their summer!

Sarah

Sarah Clausen
Product Manager
Electronic Theatre Controls, Inc.


-- 
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.4.0 - Release Date: 6/1/2005




-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.0 - Release Date: 6/2/2005


------------------------------

Reply-To: <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
Subject: RE: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:06:48 -0400
Message-ID: <000c01c567ae$9f2db370$6601a8c0 [at] Dell>
In-Reply-To: <list-22810731 [at] prxy.net>


> ANy links to pictures, or technical data for the console? 
> Nothing on the website as of yet.

You can get onto ETC's website?  I haven't been able to access it for a
couple of days now.



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:12:55 -0400
Subject: Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BEC4E087.13B6%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-22808210 [at] prxy.net>

Oxyacetylene is more like brazing, not welding.  It is definitely not
structural and takes forever, relatively speaking.  So you should forget
about that type.  Mig, which is psuedo-structural, will work just fine for
this application.  If you were doing real structural work you would either
TIG or stick.

I learned on a stick machine and prefer it to the other types, mainly cuz
most of the other types weren't all that common in scene shops way back
when.  But now it's more personal preference than anything else.

Bill S.

www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html




on 6/2/05 1:49 PM, Paul Schreiner at pschreiner [at] rmwc.edu wrote:

>> As this project will also require that I learn how to weld, I
>> could use some guidance with that, too:  What is the most
>> appropriate flavor of welding apparatus for the project as
>> described?  Oxyacetylene?  MIG?  or ???  (fear not, I *will*
>> be getting some actual instruction before beginning).  



------------------------------

Message-ID: <0ba101c567af$8952f460$6401a8c0 [at] chris>
From: "Chris Warner" <bearz2 [at] cox.net>
Cc: stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com
References: <list-22810783 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:13:26 -0700

Sure was... www.etcconnect.com

Chris

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jeffrey E. Salzberg" <stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com>
To: "Stagecraft" <stagecraft [at] theatrical.net>
Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest


> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> > ANy links to pictures, or technical data for the console? 
> > Nothing on the website as of yet.
> 
> You can get onto ETC's website?  I haven't been able to access it for a
> couple of days now.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.0 - Release Date: 6/2/2005
> 
> 


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.5.0 - Release Date: 6/2/2005


------------------------------

Message-ID: <000e01c567af$213d4b50$c801a8c0 [at] tricia>
From: "crewcall" <crewcall [at] tiscali.it>
References: <list-22810096 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Is this wise ? :)
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 21:10:32 +0100

Has anyone had any dealing with the company below

http://www.wholesalehunter.com/
Wholesale Hunter
3059 Audrain Road 581
Vandalia, MO 63382

I wish to buy from them a (Winchester Fixed Knife & Tool Gift Set 
(22-47187) ) but they do not take UK credit/debit cards drawn on UK banks or 
paypal.They want certified funds - money order, cashiers check, bank draft, 
etc.Is this wise ? :) with shipping it's only $42.08 US but I would hate to 
line the pockets of a rip-off-artist .

Cheers
Chris

/
http://kick-butt.co.uk 


------------------------------

Message-Id: <200506022020.j52KKUI2010281 [at] outgoing.mit.edu>
From: "MIke Katz" <mkatz [at] MIT.EDU>
Subject: RE: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:20:33 -0400
In-Reply-To: <list-22810842 [at] prxy.net>

Bill,
It is not often that you let us say "what are you drinking" with glee on our
Faces.
1. Oxyacetylene Welding is welding. Period. It is like Tig welding but using
flame instead of arc for heat.
2. Mig can certainly be structural, the problem with it is that you must set
it up correctly or else it could look like it is fine but it could have no
strength. It is probably the fastest and easiest welding to learn today.
3. Tig is great for aluminum but it is harder to learn and it has NO
inherent advantage over Mig
4. Stick can be fine except it is dirty and slow and kind of old fashioned
So see if you can find a reasonably priced mig machine and get some training
and have fun. 
Mike

snip
Oxyacetylene is more like brazing, not welding.  It is definitely not
structural and takes forever, relatively speaking.  So you should forget
about that type.  Mig, which is psuedo-structural, will work just fine for
this application.  If you were doing real structural work you would either
TIG or stick.

I learned on a stick machine and prefer it to the other types, mainly cuz
most of the other types weren't all that common in scene shops way back
when.  But now it's more personal preference than anything else.

Bill S.
snip

[Katz & Gritz Mishpokhe] Mike Katz TD MIT Theater Arts 


------------------------------

Message-ID: <20050602204523.26891.qmail [at] web51401.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 13:45:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Al Fitch <fitchal [at] yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Better Way to make a window frame?
In-Reply-To: <list-22800509 [at] prxy.net>

Yeah, on the way to work today I had the dado thought.
 I figure I should buy the material (lattice) first so
I have the thickness.  If for nothing else, the hour
commute is good for thinking.
Al

Al,

I may be picturing this wrong but might it be easier
to make 
full-length
dado cuts in the frame pieces (table saw or router)
rather than trying 
to
align multiple cuts with multiple lattice members? I'm
thinking of a 
system
similar to affixing the bottom of a cabinet drawer -
just larger scale.

- J.Minh


Be Kind, Smile and Have Fun.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 16:55:06 -0400
Subject: Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
From: Bill Sapsis <bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
Message-ID: <BEC4EA6A.13C7%bill [at] sapsis-rigging.com>
In-Reply-To: <list-22811059 [at] prxy.net>

Sigh.  OK.  My phrasing was off.

You're right, technically, about the oxy rig.  But there is very little
penetration with oxy so, as I said, it is more like brazing.  ie:  the
connection material is built up on the surface.

I base my comments on mig -v- tig on my understanding that all the reputable
truss guys use tig for building their products, not mig.  And they seem to
have their reasons.

And yes, stick is dirty and slow and kind of old fashioned.  Then again...so
am I.  Well, maybe not the dirty part.

(I have a mig here in the shop and I know how to use it <<gg>>)

Thanks for the response.
Bill S.
www.sapsis-rigging.com
800.727.7471
800.292.3851  fax
267.278.4561  mobile

Please support the Long Reach Long Riders on their 2nd annual benefit ride
http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html





on 6/2/05 4:20 PM, MIke Katz at mkatz [at] MIT.EDU wrote:

> It is not often that you let us say "what are you drinking" with glee on our
> Faces.
> 1. Oxyacetylene Welding is welding. Period. It is like Tig welding but using
> flame instead of arc for heat.
> 2. Mig can certainly be structural, the problem with it is that you must set
> it up correctly or else it could look like it is fine but it could have no
> strength. It is probably the fastest and easiest welding to learn today.
> 3. Tig is great for aluminum but it is harder to learn and it has NO
> inherent advantage over Mig
> 4. Stick can be fine except it is dirty and slow and kind of old fashioned
> So see if you can find a reasonably priced mig machine and get some training
> and have fun. 



------------------------------

Subject: RE: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 16:53:06 -0400
Message-ID: <346414591B50EE4299DB6686321B8CC701D29294 [at] FACSTAFF.facultystaff.eku.edu>
From: "Secore, Scott" <Scott.Secore [at] EKU.EDU>

 Randy Storms wrote:
>>As this project will also require that I learn how to weld, I could
use some guidance with that, too:  What is the most appropriate flavor
of welding apparatus for the project as described?  Oxyacetylene?  MIG?
or ???  (fear not, I *will* be getting some actual instruction before
beginning).<<

MIG is definitely (in my opinion) the easiest to learn. As far as
learning to weld, you might want to pick up a copy of the Welder's
Handbook by Richard Finch. Pretty good book for beginners. You should be
able to get it for about 15-20$ at any Lowes or Home Depot (unless of
course you know of a steel supplier, or prefer Amazon or something.)
Good luck, be safe, and have fun. Because it is!!

-Scott
Technical Theatre Specialist
Eastern Kentucky University







------------------------------

Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050602135821.04a23578 [at] 192.168.0.13>
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 14:02:37 -0700
From: Jerry Durand <jdurand [at] interstellar.com>
Subject: Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
In-Reply-To: <list-22811746 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-22811059 [at] prxy.net>
 <list-22811746 [at] prxy.net>

At 01:55 PM 6/2/2005, you wrote:
>(I have a mig here in the shop and I know how to use it <<gg>>)

My wife learned on MIG and I learned on stick (for brand fans, she used a 
Miller, I used a Lincoln).  The first time I tried her MIG I almost welded 
myself to the table, wasn't ready for the fast feed.  :)

We now have a private-labeled 230A AC/DC stick welder and an oxy-propane 
cutting/brazing torch.  I've used the stick welder for steel and aluminum 
rocket fins.  The fins stayed on past Mach 1, so I must have done it right.  :)

She used the MIG to weld steel and aluminum.  She also used a forge and 
showed me how to pound hot steel.  :)


----------
Jerry Durand
Durand Interstellar, Inc.
219 Oak Wood Way
Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA
tel:  +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free:  1 866 356-3886
web:  www.interstellar.com




------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <193.4113a293.2fd0d0b3 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:14:27 EDT
Subject: Re: Star*Par Vs. Source 4 Par

In a message dated 6/1/05 7:23:22 PM W. Europe Daylight Time, 
stagecraft [at] jeffsalzberg.com writes:

<< The Altman unit also has (this is not part of the standard lens kit but is
 available as a special-order) a Very Wide Flood lens, so if short throw/wide
 coverage is an issue, this is something to consider. >>

Here I go again. WHY is everyone so enthusiastic about PAR lanterns, of 
whatever sort. If you are interested in lumens per dollar, or lumens per ampere, 
they have their advantages. I don't think that that is what stage lighting is 
about. I think it's about painting pictures with light, according to the 
intentions of the director and designer.

PAR lanterns are 6" whitewash brushes: I prefer smaller and more controllable 
instruments to create my pictures.

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <1ab.39a5e738.2fd0d0b8 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:14:32 EDT
Subject: Re: Patch boxes

In a message dated 6/1/05 8:30:44 PM W. Europe Daylight Time, psyd [at] cox.net 
writes:

<< >I fear that you are right.Who knows what happens inside a miltipin 
connector?
 
 I do.   What did you want to know, Frank? >>

Chris.

    I know what happens inside multipin connectores I have specified. Inside 
those you have specified, I do not. That is the problem. You were moaning 
about AES standards, on XLR-3 connectors, and about still having to stock phase 
reversers. Translate that up to multipin connectors.

Maybe there are Americanb standards, but I doubt it.

------------------------------

From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com
Message-ID: <79.46b1180f.2fd0d0b7 [at] aol.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 17:14:31 EDT
Subject: Re: re Dead Cat Soap

In a message dated 6/1/05 8:09:03 PM W. Europe Daylight Time, psyd [at] cox.net 
writes:

<< AES (as it seemed to me when I followed) are a lofty-minded set of
 engineers who seem to have lost touch with the 'real world'.  Good
 intentions, little understandinbg on how to change the status quo. >>

You tell me what the real world does. Random phasing? I know of one 
organisation which grounds the tips of jack plugs.


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 17:33:15 -0400
From: "Steve B." <sbmtbike [at] optonline.net>
Subject: Re: ETC's new Congo console debuts at Eurovision Song Contest
Message-id: <001d01c567ba$afb26810$6401a8c0 [at] SBFF>
References: <list-22803170 [at] prxy.net> <list-22810731 [at] prxy.net>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Warner" <bearz2 [at] cox.net>
> ANy links to pictures, or technical data for the console? Nothing on the
> website as of yet.

Click on the Avab link at the bottom of the ETCConnect page.

SB


------------------------------

From: "Jeremiah Minh Greenblatt" <roadhat [at] earthlink.net>
Subject: Test - Please Ignore
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:07:26 -0400
Message-ID: <001501c567d0$3d0bf720$0200a8c0 [at] ROADHAT>





------------------------------

Message-ID: <1395.65.184.112.59.1117758233.squirrel [at] webmail.columbia.sc>
In-Reply-To: <list-22807918 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-22807918 [at] prxy.net>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:23:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
From: usctd [at] columbia.sc

Randy,

You will have a blast working with steel.  I love it.  I find welding and
metalwork very theraputic and relaxing.

For flattage I use 1" tube.  I have met many that use 1.5".  I think
that's fine for taller stuff or things that have platforms tying into
them.  I would recomend getting 14G wall thickness.  It's a little heavier
than 16G (obviously) but it also makes it more forgiving for the novice
welder.  If you don't have the settings just right, 16G is very easy to
blow a hole through.

Remember that tubing has a welded seam on it.  THis seam is much harder
than the other three sides of the tube.  If you are making flats that will
then get skinned with tech screws, remember to keep this seem towards the
back or inside.  This way you won't have to screw or drill into it.

"> To narrow the question:  suppose you are constructing a 4'W x 8'L x 8'H
platform from 1" square tubing, with a 3/4" plywood deck, with the idea
that 5-6 adult actors could at some point be jumping around on it.
> Would it be better to use a different size tube?"

I like making platforms out of 2x1x14G rectangular tube.  Makes it a
little more stable and beefy.  It also gives you more room to drill and
bolt for legging.  You could actualy make the legs out of 1" tube, but I
would probably go with 1.5".  Definitely will need crossbracing. 
Depending on your floor, you may want to weld feet made from 1/8" flat
bar.  Drill a few holes and you have a way to tie into the floor.  This
also keeps the edges of the tube from eating into the floor.


 Oxyacetylene?  MIG?

MIG, MIG, MIG!!  I have a couple Millers.  Old but very dependable. 
However, you may want to look into the kits they have at Lowes or the
Depot.  I love my little flux core Lincoln welder.  It can be converted to
gas, but I like it the way it is.  It produces a very high quality weld. 
If aesthetics are an issue, there is some slag to brush off.

You may also want to look into an OXY/Acetelene kit.  Once you start
discovering how much you can do with metal you're going to want to be able
to heat, bend, cut.....etc.

> ???  (fear not, I *will* be getting some actual instruction before
> beginning).
>
As you are learning, break some stuff you have welded.  You may be
surprised that welds you think look great had absolutely no penetration. 
On the other hand, it makes you feel really good when you are trying to
break something and the wall of the tube peels off with the weld in tact!

Use jigs whenever possible.  All that heat makes metal frames squirm like
the dickens!

Have fun!
-- 
Eric Rouse
TD-University of SC, Columbia/Soon to be at Penn State!
Freelance Foyboy

------------------------------

In-Reply-To: <list-22810096 [at] prxy.net>
References: <list-22810096 [at] prxy.net>
Message-Id: <a529d3c45705c2f7c66a43314fc5911e [at] cd-romney.com>
From: Jason Romney <jason [at] cd-romney.com>
Subject: Re: Soundtrack Pro
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 22:37:46 -0400

On Jun 2, 2005, at 3:26 PM, Steve Larson wrote:

> For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see 
> <http://stagecraft.theprices.net/>
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> Anyone on the list familiar with Soundtrack Pro.
> It's a new application from Apple designed to
> work in conjunction with the Final Cut Pro software.
> It will work alone for multi-track sound editing.

I attended a demo by Apple on Soundtrack Pro. I seems similar to 
Wavelab. It's sort of a mix of basic two-track editing and basic 
multi-track editing. The demo seemed to be targeted at film editors 
that do film sound and used to use Sound Designer II. It's a lot of 
paste mixing to design new sound effects. Some important limitations: 
you can't record anything only import existing audio files. No MIDI 
features.

It seems a bit limited for building theatre sound cues. My impression 
is that it's great for low-budget filmmakers using Final Cut Pro but 
there are better tools available for theatre sound.

Jason

_______________________________________________________
Jason Romney
Sound Design Instructor - North Carolina School of the Arts
Vice Commissioner for Computing Industry - USITT Sound Commission
jason [at] cd-romney.com
romneyj [at] ncarts.edu
http://www.ncarts.edu/ncsaprod/designandproduction/dtsdw.asp
http://www.cd-romney.com

>


------------------------------

Message-ID: <20050603033028.10914.qmail [at] web81403.mail.yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 20:30:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Shawn Palmer <shawn.palmer [at] sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
In-Reply-To: 6667


--- Bill Sapsis wrote:
<SNIP> 
> Mig, which is psuedo-structural,
> will work just fine for
> this application.  If you were doing real structural
> work you would either
> TIG or stick.
> Bill S.

Erm?  "Psuedo-structural?"  You can have "cold" welds
using MIG, TIG or "stick" welding.  TIG leaves the
best looking weld, and is easy to use on aluminum,
easy being a relative term.  I think that is why most
truss manufacturers use TIG.  You also would have to
switch the polarity on your MIG to weld aluminum.  Not
a biggie, but takes a bit of time.  I would bet if we
tried some destructive testing with MIG and TIG welded
truss, both fabricated by a master welder, the MIG
welded stuff would come out fine. 

I had a lab hack up and pull apart some motorcycle
frames that utilized these three welding types.  All
three had strength nearly identical.  Many frame
fabricators use "TIG welded" as a marketing point,
too.  The welds are a bit prettier.  Yippee.  I see no
other advantages.  Properly stick welded frames are
ugly but safe :-)  I know of only one guy who uses
this slow and old method, but his frames are just fine
after they are cleaned up:-)

Lastly, pulling from someone else's post... if I were
getting a MIG welder, I'd get the gas.  FCAW
(flux-cored arc welding) still leaves a bit of slag. 
GMAW (gas metal arc welding, what we usually refer to
as MIG) is a bit cleaner.  The gas is easy to use and
really isn't an issue.  Just be sure to shut off your
tank when you are done or you'll come out to an empty
tank;-)

YMMV 

Shawn P
Neenah, WI
USA

------------------------------

Message-ID: <429FD33A.60202 [at] fuse.net>
Date: Thu, 02 Jun 2005 23:49:14 -0400
From: Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net>
Subject: Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
References: <list-22807918 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-22807918 [at] prxy.net>

Storms, Randy wrote:

> I'm planning to make the jump from lumber to steel for
> Noises Off this summer.  I've seen some touring sets
> constructed from ~1" square tubing, so I thought I'd
> start there; but this will be my first experience
> designing with steel, and I'm a bit nervous about the
> engineering of it.
> 
> Are there some basic rules of thumb?  Any good on-line
> resources?  The Backstage Handbook has some information,
> but not enough to really get me rolling.
> 
> To narrow the question:  suppose you are constructing a
> 4'W x 8'L x 8'H platform from 1" square tubing, with a
> 3/4" plywood deck, with the idea that 5-6 adult actors
> could at some point be jumping around on it. At what
> interval should the uprights be spaced?  Are diagonals
> necessary?  Would it be better to use a different size
> tube?

1x1 by itself is a bit light, you could make the top frame 
from flat trusses of 1x1 steel and the legs out of box 
columns made from 1x1 steel. or you could go a bit beefier...

For legs, A rule of thumb I like is for the unbraced height 
not to exceed 40-50 times the small dimension in a tube used 
as a leg.  So a 1" tube without cross bracing or diagonals 
is good for no more than 4 feet.  As any rule of thumb, this 
varies a bit with gauge of tube and application.

> 
> As this project will also require that I learn how to
> weld, I could use some guidance with that, too:  What is
> the most appropriate flavor of welding apparatus for the
> project as described?  Oxyacetylene?  MIG?  or ???  (fear
> not, I *will* be getting some actual instruction before
> beginning).

The Finch book is good, I second that rec.  I think Mig is 
overall the best choice, but care must be taken to really 
learn to weld with it.  It is very easy to lay a pretty bead 
that never digs into the base metal.

TIG is too costly, finicky, and slow for general theatre 
work.  It is used for high precision truss and such because 
the Tig process is very highly controllable and because it 
can go so slowly you can see and control the entire weld, 
mig goes quite fast, and you are partly relying on getting 
the machine and the operator dialed in properly so the weld 
can be trusted to be good.

Arc is filthy, and cheap, and requires a greater level of 
skill than Mig, it can be quite frustrating for beginners, 
and it is not best suited for the lighter guages of tubing 
used in theatre.

Oxy-acetylene is the most versatile tool you can get, you 
can weld, even very thick metals and very thin ones, you can 
braze or cut, or just dump enought Joules into some steel to 
make it very malleable, but it is too slow for general 
theatrical welding.

The Hobart Handler type of 115 volt migs are fine for 
theatrical gauges of tubing, portable, and easy to power. 
Do not use flux core wire, get the gas kit and run C25 (a 
mix of argon and CO2) flux core is filthy.

Do not assume the settings on the sticker are the right ones 
for your application, they are a starting point, you will 
probably deviate a fair bit before you find the settings 
that really make YOUR machine run great for YOUR project in 
YOUR hands.  Once you get good results, write 'em down!

How do you plan to cut your steel?

What kind of welding table are you going to build?

What kind of shop space do you have?

Auto-dimming helmets are great.  So are T nailers.

I weld theatre scenery all day long, feel free to pop me a 
note if you have any questions about setting up your space.

Stuart


------------------------------

Message-ID: <429FD736.4020504 [at] fuse.net>
Date: Fri, 03 Jun 2005 00:06:14 -0400
From: Stuart Wheaton <sdwheaton [at] fuse.net>
Subject: Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
References: <list-22818223 [at] prxy.net>
In-Reply-To: <list-22818223 [at] prxy.net>

Shawn Palmer wrote:

> You also would have to
> switch the polarity on your MIG to weld aluminum. 

This is not true...

When using most flux cored wires without gas you need to 
swap polarity, but when welding with hardwire in either 
Aluminum, copper, stainless or carbon steel with appropriate 
gas, you weld with the same polarity.


Otherwise, great advice.

Stuart



------------------------------

Message-ID: <000001c567f7$1a033cd0$0800a8c0 [at] Klyphsmachine>
Reply-To: "Klyph Stanford" <klyphstanford [at] earthlink.net>
From: "Klyph Stanford" <klyphstanford [at] earthlink.net>
References: <list-22811746 [at] prxy.net>
Subject: Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 00:43:17 -0400


>
> And yes, stick is dirty and slow and kind of old fashioned.  Then 
> again...so
> am I.  Well, maybe not the dirty part.
>
>
> Thanks for the response.
> Bill S.
> www.sapsis-rigging.com
> 800.727.7471
> 800.292.3851  fax
> 267.278.4561  mobile

Stick does have the advantage of being able to go easily where a mig machine 
cannot, ie the inside frame of an orchestra lift, or onto the grid.  But 
that probably only matters to installers.

mig is certainly much easier to learn, but depending on the structure being 
welded, i might still go with stick.  I am always more sure of my 
penetration with stick because I can feel it through the rod.

why not learn all three?  There is no such thing as too many job skills.

My 2 cents.
Klyph 



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 3 Jun 2005 02:55:23 -0400
Subject: Re: rookie welder:  structural engineering of steel platforms
From: Seth Richardson <sarvernon [at] adelphia.net>
Message-Id: <751A2E54-D3FC-11D9-9D97-00050201851C [at] adelphia.net>

>
> On Thursday, June 2, 2005, at 04:53 PM, Secore, Scott wrote:
>
>> Welder's Handbook by Richard Finch. Pretty good book for beginners.

Or Shell out couple of more dollars and get a copy of Modern Welding 
(9th ed.) Great book Textbook for high school/technical school 
students. Covers theory, fundamentals, and basic processes. Plus it's 
700+ pages (Don't worry it has photo's.) compared to 176 pages.

Let me put this ad in for SAFETY.  ALWAYS Use all of the Personal 
Protective Equipment suggested, including long sleeves, proper gloves 
(Leather) and Masks.  I think my personal favor was watching my welding 
teacher set his glove and sleeve on fire.  Don't worry he was OK.

As for Stick, Mig or gas start learning with what you have or you can 
get your hands on cheap.

Seth Richardson




------------------------------

End of Stagecraft Digest #416
*****************************