Return-Path: X-Scanned-By: RAE MPP/Clamd http://raeinternet.com/mpp X-Scanned-By: This message was scanned by MPP Lite Edition (www.messagepartners.com)! X-Real-To: stagecraftlist [at] theatrical.net Received: by prxy.net (CommuniGate Pro PIPE 4.2.10) with PIPE id 23160682; Sat, 18 Jun 2005 03:02:01 -0700 X-ListServer: CommuniGate Pro LIST 4.2.10 List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Message-ID: From: "Stagecraft" Sender: "Stagecraft" To: "Stagecraft" Precedence: list Subject: Stagecraft Digest #431 Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 03:01:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.0.3 (2005-04-27) on prxy.net X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.6 required=5.0 tests=ALL_TRUSTED,AWL,BAYES_00 autolearn=ham version=3.0.3 X-TFF-CGPSA-Version: 1.4f2 X-prxy-Spam-Filter: Scanned For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- Stagecraft Digest, Issue #431 1. Re: Tour Rigging Responsibilities versus venue by Greg Williams 2. Re: Rectangular Knock out punches. by LITETROL [at] aol.com 3. Re: sound board problem by "Jonathan S. Deull" 4. Re: Tour Rigging Responsibilities versus venue by "Michael Diederich" 5. Lumber dimensions, etc. by "Davis, Thomas J" 6. Re: Internet community addiction? by "Mt. Angel Performing Arts Center" 7. Re: sound board problem by "Bill Nelson" 8. Re: 1" X 3" by Jerry Durand 9. Re: OT: Internet community addiction? by Mark O'Brien 10. Re: OT: Internet community addiction? by Pat Kight 11. Re: More rigging Questions by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 12. Re: Tour Rigging Responsibilities versus venue by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 13. Re: sound board problem by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 14. Re: Tour Rigging Responsibilities versus venue by "James, Brian" 15. Re: More rigging Questions by "Scheu Consulting Services" 16. Re: More rigging Questions by CB 17. Re: More rigging Questions by CB 18. Re: More rigging Questions by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 19. Re: More rigging Questions by "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" 20. Re: More rigging Questions by FrankWood95 [at] aol.com 21. Re: More rigging Questions by CB 22. Re: audio cables by CB 23. Re: Flashlight Replacement by CB 24. Welder in KS area by "Sam Fisher" 25. Re: More rigging Questions by "Scheu Consulting Services" *** Please update the subject line of your reply to use the subject *** line of the message you are replying to! Please only reply to *** one message subject in each reply. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <28afafc37879907b495b819ee6ecd341 [at] appstate.edu> From: Greg Williams Subject: Re: Tour Rigging Responsibilities versus venue Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:19:31 -0400 On Jun 16, 2005, at 7:24 PM, James, Brian wrote: > So, this may be a real broad question, and I can fill in with more > specifics if needed but...... > What are the general guide lines between who is responsible for the > various parts of rigging when a tour show is in a venue? > I have had many odd experiences (probably due to being a college > venue). Being in a college venue should have nothing to do with it, one would hope. Weight is weight, whether it's going up in Local 1's jurisdiction or TinyCity, USA. Question for you: are you the TD, the head rigger, paid staff, faculty or student in this facility? Most of these questions can be resolved ahead of time with good advance phone work between the tour TD and the venue TD. I did have one bizarre loading incident when we were loading in a show once. The tour master carp did not know how heavy a huge assembled flown header piece was, although she was in charge of getting it in the air. I was calling weights up to the student on the loading rail, and asked her how much weight to put on it. She replied that she had no idea how much weight it would need. "It's your house, you tell ME how much weight it will need!". I replied that it was a single purchase system, so if she'd just tell me how much the thing weighed, I could probably figure it out from there. She refused, but before it could turn any more bizarre, one of the other touring crew sidled up and told me quietly that other venues had been treating it as "x hundred" pounds (I forget exactly, but it was _heavy_), after the first one had gone through the laborious task of adding one weight at a time, trying to bull it out, failing, adding another brick, etc.. He was very apologetic about the MC's behavior. We loaded it, it flew, and I kept a _very_ close eye on that MC the rest of the load-in, to make sure she wasn't putting my crew in danger. Never saw that type of weirdness before or since. Touring companies _have_ to know their weights, for load distribution as well as avoiding overloading, so they might as well share that info with the people who are helping to make the show happen. Please don't take this the wrong way, but if one of those companies in question told you the weights, but not which shackles to use, and the shackles were stamped with a load rating, perhaps it's a good thing that you didn't get to rig it? Or did I misread your post? -=Greg Williams=- Production Manager Valborg Theatre, Appalachian State University ------We're at it again!!!------ Check out the Long Reach Long Riders cross country fund raiser for BC/EFA at http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ From: LITETROL [at] aol.com Message-ID: <20e.3277c36.2fe40dd5 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:28:21 EDT Subject: Re: Rectangular Knock out punches. In a message dated 6/17/2005 2:30:25 AM Eastern Standard Time, bpurdy [at] rochester.rr.com writes: From the responses you all have given, it would appear that such punches are not available on the market currently, and that for the size of the project in mind, I would probably be better off just buying complete boxes pre-made anyway. Bruce, one last comment, if I may. Rich at Union Connector really said it already: they have the CNC plasma machine to do exactly what you want. I have asked UC to make any number of custom panels, to contain flush female 2p&g connectors. They do a fabulous job of making the panel exactly as I have sketched it (even if I sketch it wrong!), length, width, mounting centers, numbering, mounting holes, etc.... Maybe you could get the "panel" portion from Rich (with all the non-standard cutouts), and then "do-it-yerself" from there? s. steve [at] litetrol.com Lite-Trol Service Co., Inc. 485 West John Street Hicksville NY 11801 800 548 3876 516 681 7288 fax ------------------------------ From: "Jonathan S. Deull" Subject: RE: sound board problem Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:24:41 -0400 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Just a thought about the sound board that "leaks" on all channels. Sorry I missed the original posts, and I may be way off track here, but I remember being surprised to "discover" that the trim pots on the Mackie LINE inputs only provide partial attenuation (15dB), by design. In other words, when the trim is all the way down, signal fed through the line (not MIC) input will still come through. Someone pointed out that this behavior was indeed documented in the manual. Not sure if this is at all relevant. Jonathan ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Tour Rigging Responsibilities versus venue Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:11:16 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Michael Diederich" >>>>> "I had one show that would not release the weight of their gear to me and claimed it was a liability issue for them to make me figure it out (that show never got rigged, I did not have enough information available to figure out the weights of their equipment)." I have yet to have a show come through and know what there equipment weighed. I deal with a lot of community groups that couldn't correctly build a flat if their lives depended on it. No matter how many times I tell them, their carpenter (usually a contractor/super dad) will either build it *like* a house. (Which included furring strips on 16" centers on their sides like a studded wall, which made rigging a treat!) Or they don't use more than one toggle for a 16' tall flat. They come in and say, "Put this up, I'll go get the next piece." I don't have a grid, (don't get me started on that) so I only deal with our single purchase counter weight system, but the 900 pound guessing game my stagehands and I played this past spring did not make me very happy. Since we can't hang points we never bring in the crews that hang very much, we usually bring in the groups that could do their performance in a gym, theater, lawn, department store, or mom's living room. So hanging for them isn't my biggest concern.=20 Mike Diederich Theater Technical Assistant Mohawk Valley Community College ------------------------------ Subject: Lumber dimensions, etc. Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:44:23 -0400 Message-ID: <3CF87682970858499CA56707FB1F092B0A91BF [at] wscc-s-003000.westshore.edu> From: "Davis, Thomas J" I was going to regale you all with an extended lecture on my experiences at a millwork company, and demonstrate my arcane knowledge of lumber, but I think I will spare you all that, and just give a couple suggestions. The Western Wood Products Association offers a number of publications dealing with lumber grading, dimensions and specs. I have found my grading guide very useful over the years, especially when arguing with a supplier about what is and isn't #2 or C select. They will also supply engineering and load data.=20 http://www.wwpa.org/default2.htm =20 If you have need of a specific size of lumber (nominal or real) that is not readily available at your local yard, I recommend locating a millwork shop or planing mill in your area- they can provide anything you need, in any available species, and it will probably be run through a strato-plane, Weinig molder or other equipment that is much more precise that the machines turning out millions of construction grade 2x4s. If you order in any kind of quantity, you may find the price very reasonable compared to "clear" lumber at a local yard or home center. Look in your area for an industrial lumber supplier- the people who supply furniture and millwork manufacturers. They can often supply grades and sizes of lumber that the local yard will tell you "don't exist" or "aren't made anymore." When I operated my scene shop in Chicago, we purchased a lot of #1 furniture grade pine in random widths and also used a lot of yellow poplar (a bit harder to work than pine, but very straight and stable, and often less expensive in clear grades). If you do try poplar, don't let the yard substitute "popple"- a regional term for soft aspen better used for making paper than building anything. Well, I see I have managed to lecture despite my good intentions. I hope some of this proves useful. Tom Davis Tech Director West Shore Community College ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:25:24 -0700 From: "Mt. Angel Performing Arts Center" Subject: Re: Internet community addiction? In-reply-to: Message-id: <42B2DD54.8060703 [at] mtangelperformingarts.com> References: Smells like an Urban Legend to me... Carla Tony Deeming wrote: >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >Not one to be insensitive at someone else's misfortune, I had to smile at >the final line.... >"A virtual memorial service will be held online at a date to be determined." > >Ynot > >-----Original Message----- >From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Bruce >Purdy >Sent: 17 June 2005 08:18 >To: Stagecraft >Subject: OT: Internet community addiction? > > >For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see >--------------------------------------------------- > >And I sometimes thought *I* spent too much time reading forums like this! > >The following article is at: >http://tinyurl.com/8fwx9 > > >Bruce >-- >Bruce Purdy >Technical Director >Smith Opera House > > > ------------------------------ Message-ID: <1598.64.28.54.38.1119018524.squirrel [at] webmail.peak.org> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:28:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: sound board problem From: "Bill Nelson" Is the Mackie board one of those where the trim pots only go to -15 or -30 dB? If so, then a high level signal can feed through, even when trimmed "off". Bill ------------------------------ Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.0.20050617074235.03ca2390 [at] 192.168.0.13> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 07:47:36 -0700 From: Jerry Durand Subject: Re: 1" X 3" In-Reply-To: References: At 05:19 PM 6/16/2005, you wrote: >The finished dimensions of old 2x4 stock in the US used to be larger than >it is now. I have seen pieces that were 1 3/4 x 3 3/4 - e.g only 1/4 inch >under nominal size rather than the 1/2 inch that is now standard. The guys who built our house (in the late 1950's) must have been thinking of the future, the interior walls are so thin some in-the-wall things like heaters and medicine cabinets were sticking out an inch. The heaters are gone and the medicine cabinets are now large surface mount, but we had to cut the screws off on the back of all the electrical boxes so they wouldn't punch through the other side. At least it's strong, the 1989 'quake didn't break it. ---------- Jerry Durand Durand Interstellar, Inc. 219 Oak Wood Way Los Gatos, California 95032-2523 USA tel: +1 408 356-3886, USA toll free: 1 866 356-3886 web: www.interstellar.com ------------------------------ In-Reply-To: References: Message-Id: <3bd28948e7bc5d6f568674a4bebb4d1b [at] email.arizona.edu> Cc: marko [at] email.arizona.edu (Mark O'Brien) From: Mark O'Brien Subject: Re: OT: Internet community addiction? Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:30:03 -0700 Here is what snopes has to say about this... http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/starved.asp And the answer is- Urban Legend Still pretty damn funny. Mark O'Brien Opera Technical Director University of Arizona, School of Music Tucson, AZ 520/621-7025 520/591-1803 Mobile On Jun 17, 2005, at 12:18 AM, Bruce Purdy wrote: > http://tinyurl.com/8fwx9 ------------------------------ Message-ID: <42B2F631.5020605 [at] peak.org> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:11:29 -0700 From: Pat Kight Subject: Re: OT: Internet community addiction? References: In-Reply-To: Mark O'Brien wrote: > Here is what snopes has to say about this... > > http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/starved.asp > > > And the answer is- Urban Legend More properly, a pretty good piece of satire (see the "Commentary" label?) that got picked up and circulated until it became an urban legend. And yes, funny. I can step away from the computer any time. Honest. Just let me check Usenet one more time ... -- Pat Kight kightp [at] peak.org ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <192.4224b042.2fe461db [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:26:51 EDT Subject: Re: More rigging Questions In a message dated 17/06/05 00:13:06 GMT Daylight Time, tfitch [at] email.uncc.edu writes: > Your actual load is 75Kg. Given a ten-to-one safety factor, you only > need an ultimate capacity of 750 Kg. Assumimg the same manufacturer > uses the same 4-1 design factor across their entire product lineup, you > need something manufacturer rated as a hoist for 187.5 Kg. Perhaps a > 200 Kg or 250 Kg hoist? > > The trick here is that you eliminate the manufacturer's design factor > and choose your own, because you know how serious a failure would be. > The manufacturer figures you'd have to replace a piece of equipment -- > you know you'd have to replace a person and they're much harder to come > by and tough to repair. I see the logic in what you say, and agree with you. The trouble is when OSHA and insurance inspectors start reading the rating plates, and applying their own safety factors. Myself, I should be happy on a 200Kg hoist, with rated lines and shackles. This isn't actually true, these days. Old age has brought on vertigo, to the extent that I don't like going down stairs with no handrail. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <86.2a588d55.2fe465e7 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:44:07 EDT Subject: Re: Tour Rigging Responsibilities versus venue In a message dated 17/06/05 00:25:13 GMT Daylight Time, bej [at] vt.edu writes: > I had one show that would not release the weight of their gear to me and > claimed it was a liability issue for them to make me figure it out (that show > never got rigged, I did not have enough information available to figure out > the weights of their equipment). This is a complete and utter nonsense, and ought to have been sorted out at the initial planning meeting, before the hire was accepted. YOU know what loads you can handle, THEY know what loads they have. > > What are some guidelines that distinguish between the venue's responsibility > and the tours? You really need a lawyer across this. Common sense suggests that YOU are responsible for making sure that your facilities are used within their safe limits, and that THEY are responsible for their safe operation, if they are providing the crew, and for all the rigging they supply and use. But, common sense and liability law do not seem to fit very well together. Your insurers may well have a view. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <103.639e834f.2fe46823 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:53:39 EDT Subject: Re: sound board problem In a message dated 17/06/05 03:35:02 GMT Daylight Time, alf.sauve [at] mindspring.com writes: > Just a thought about the sound board that "leaks"on all channels. > > Common to every channel is the power supply. I'd investigate for open (or > missing) capacitors in the power supply and along the power "bus" that > supplies voltage to each channel. Could be poorly designed or that some > were left out in the manufacturing process, or one or more is open. I certainly think that earthing problems might cause this. Whether you use transformer or electronic balance at the inputs should not be relevant. Once inside the mixer, the signals are unbalanced, and referenced to earth (ground). If this reference is dubious, just about anything can happen. As far as the signals are concerned, the power rails are ground, too. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Subject: RE: Tour Rigging Responsibilities versus venue Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:08:54 -0400 Message-ID: From: "James, Brian" Too clarify. I was using the example of pointing out each shackle to show the = extremes, one show would only point to the box of rigging gear and say = "you decide, it's a liability thing" and another show would give = specific steel and shackles for each point, indicating it is a liability = thing for them to dictate that hardware. I am curious, from a local point of view, which would best protect my = interests. My apologies for badly explaining that and hope that helps explain what = I was trying to get at. As far as my role here, your first question, I am the technical = director/rigger/electrician/designer/what ever needs to be done that = day. The reference to being a college venue having weird shows is in = reference to college market talent, they tend to be odd situation when = working through some of the college oriented booking agencies. -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net]On Behalf Of Greg Williams Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 7:20 AM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: Tour Rigging Responsibilities versus venue =08 For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- On Jun 16, 2005, at 7:24 PM, James, Brian wrote: > So, this may be a real broad question, and I can fill in with more=20 > specifics if needed but...... > What are the general guide lines between who is responsible for the=20 > various parts of rigging when a tour show is in a venue? > I have had many odd experiences (probably due to being a college=20 > venue). Being in a college venue should have nothing to do with it, one would=20 hope. Weight is weight, whether it's going up in Local 1's jurisdiction=20 or TinyCity, USA. Question for you: are you the TD, the head rigger, paid staff, faculty=20 or student in this facility? Most of these questions can be resolved ahead of time with good advance=20 phone work between the tour TD and the venue TD. I did have one bizarre loading incident when we were loading in a show=20 once. The tour master carp did not know how heavy a huge assembled=20 flown header piece was, although she was in charge of getting it in the=20 air. I was calling weights up to the student on the loading rail, and=20 asked her how much weight to put on it. She replied that she had no=20 idea how much weight it would need. "It's your house, you tell ME how=20 much weight it will need!". I replied that it was a single purchase=20 system, so if she'd just tell me how much the thing weighed, I could=20 probably figure it out from there. She refused, but before it could=20 turn any more bizarre, one of the other touring crew sidled up and told=20 me quietly that other venues had been treating it as "x hundred" pounds=20 (I forget exactly, but it was _heavy_), after the first one had gone=20 through the laborious task of adding one weight at a time, trying to=20 bull it out, failing, adding another brick, etc.. He was very=20 apologetic about the MC's behavior. We loaded it, it flew, and I kept a=20 _very_ close eye on that MC the rest of the load-in, to make sure she=20 wasn't putting my crew in danger. Never saw that type of weirdness before or since. Touring companies _have_ to know their weights, for load distribution=20 as well as avoiding overloading, so they might as well share that info=20 with the people who are helping to make the show happen. Please don't take this the wrong way, but if one of those companies in=20 question told you the weights, but not which shackles to use, and the=20 shackles were stamped with a load rating, perhaps it's a good thing=20 that you didn't get to rig it? Or did I misread your post? -=3DGreg Williams=3D- Production Manager Valborg Theatre, Appalachian State University ------We're at it again!!!------ Check out the Long Reach Long Riders cross country fund raiser for=20 BC/EFA at http://sapsis-rigging.com/LRLR.html ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Scheu Consulting Services" Subject: RE: More rigging Questions Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:36:23 -0400 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: <001401c57373$d8da8500$c9fea8c0 [at] ROXY> In-reply-to: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: >I see the logic in what you say, and agree with you. The=20 >trouble is when OSHA=20 >and insurance inspectors start reading the rating plates, and=20 >applying their=20 >own safety factors. Please know of what you speak. First of all, OSHA in the USA never = inspects theatrical equipment before it's used, or even during normal operations, = and neither will "insurance inspectors". It's not their charge. This really = only happens when a failure has already occurred and someone's been hurt or = there is an insurance claim filed. Secondly, these inspectors would not apply "their own safety factors" to "rating plates". They may ask for documentation as to how those ratings = were determined, but they aren't going to apply "field engineering" to = systems they may not fully understand. Now I have to go sop up all that blood on the floor I left by beating my head against the wall... Jeeze... Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050617143550.01816268 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:35:50 From: CB Subject: Re: More rigging Questions >Where do all these magic numbers come from? > >Different field, I know, but if I design an amplifier to deliver 100W of >continuous sine wave power into an 8 ohm load, it will do that all day and every >day. I've never had anyone's lofe depend on the continuous output of one of my power amps, although, some of the promoters and bands I;ve worked fro have indicated as much... I ran your quetions through the 'CSF' (Common Sense Filter) with the added parameter of "Life and Limb Peril", and it produced the following results: "When Life and Limb Peril exists, a ten to one ration insure that even when the unexpected occurs, you have a ten to one chance of survivability." Just a guess, Frank, but I'm guesing it falls into the same category as turn signal use. It don't really do anything to make the ride better, but occasionally, it saves a life. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050617144803.01816268 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 14:48:03 From: CB Subject: Re: More rigging Questions >It didn't occur to me before, but a fully gimbaled >studio camera can be pretty heavy to be waving over people's heads. I hope >someone properly rigs those things and the operator knows what he/she is doing. Usually. And, those things are pretty beefy. I've loaded in and buil my share of those booms, and they are built well. You can bet that if the shot you're seeing is on national TV, the operator has had a few hours behind the wheel. If you're in a meeting room, it may be a bit different... Also, the area covered by the boom is usually restricted from casual audience members. Usually. Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <1e1.3eb52482.2fe4a24f [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:01:51 EDT Subject: Re: More rigging Questions In a message dated 17/06/05 20:37:15 GMT Daylight Time, peter [at] scheuconsulting.com writes: > Please know of what you speak. First of all, OSHA in the USA never inspects > theatrical equipment before it's used, or even during normal operations, and > neither will "insurance inspectors". It's not their charge. This really only > happens when a failure has already occurred and someone's been hurt or there > is an insurance claim filed. Maybe so. Our UK Health and Safety inspectorate is rather more tetchy. When we has some changes done, a few years ago, the HSE insisted that we employ, at our expense, someone to check it all out. He required drawings that had never existed since the theatre was built, in 1964, and was a general nuisance in other ways. We were glad to see the back of him. Insurance inspectors are another thing. They used to require us to have our whole electrical installtion inspected by a qualified engineer every year, This took three days, when he was assisted by one of our electrical team. > > Secondly, these inspectors would not apply "their own safety factors" to > "rating plates". They may ask for documentation as to how those ratings were > determined, but they aren't going to apply "field engineering" to systems > they may not fully understand. I shouldn't bet on that. The trouble is that those doing the inspections are not trained engineers, as a rule. They go by the book, which may have been written fifty or more years ago. Things have changed, since then.. Frank Wood ------------------------------ From: "Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson" Cc: peter [at] scheuconsulting.com Subject: RE: More rigging Questions Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 16:09:46 -0600 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Peter, a good friend and I trust a continued one: Indeed, I reckon my limited experience is somewhat different from other theatrical, entertainment individuals. i.e. since 1970, the beginning of the OSHA act and inspections I have encourage OSHA and its personnel in many states, including DC to visit theaters and be on panels and inspect equipment. My tour of over forty years at USITT and its archives will verify this. I cannot recall a time when I have not asked them to come look, or when I have a problem to come and consult with me, nationally or statewise. Since 1975 I have been involved with committees who have OSHA reps and Standards people as committee personnel, dealing with entertainment. IN 1978-1988, I was a Senior Loss Control Consultant to Alexander & Alexander, the 2nd largest insurance broker in the world, and interfaced with over ten of the world's largest brokers, and over 65 major insurance carriers on the planet, and four of those insured entertainment entities, nearly 90 percent of them. WE assessed and visited and inspected and reported on many of them. And state OSHA people also did. I still am on four committees internationally that have major Washington OSHA people on them. I interface with many regional directors dealing with Pyro, Process Management, Health and Safety, and Construction. I pray this clarifies the realities of involvement. Dr. Doom -- Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson, Risk International & Associates, Inc. - www.riskit.com Latest workshops for Educational and Entertainment Industry Performing Arts Personnel (Riggers, and Public Assembly and Educational Technicians) www.riskit.com/workshops International Secondary Education Theater Safety Association (ISETSA) - www.isetsa.org -----Original Message----- From: Stagecraft [mailto:stagecraft [at] theatrical.net] On Behalf Of Scheu Consulting Services Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 1:36 PM To: Stagecraft Subject: Re: More rigging Questions For info, archives & UNSUBSCRIBE, see --------------------------------------------------- FrankWood95 [at] aol.com wrote: >I see the logic in what you say, and agree with you. The >trouble is when OSHA >and insurance inspectors start reading the rating plates, and >applying their >own safety factors. Please know of what you speak. First of all, OSHA in the USA never inspects theatrical equipment before it's used, or even during normal operations, and neither will "insurance inspectors". It's not their charge. This really only happens when a failure has already occurred and someone's been hurt or there is an insurance claim filed. Secondly, these inspectors would not apply "their own safety factors" to "rating plates". They may ask for documentation as to how those ratings were determined, but they aren't going to apply "field engineering" to systems they may not fully understand. Now I have to go sop up all that blood on the floor I left by beating my head against the wall... Jeeze... Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ From: FrankWood95 [at] aol.com Message-ID: <20c.331be1e.2fe4a522 [at] aol.com> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 18:13:54 EDT Subject: Re: More rigging Questions In a message dated 17/06/05 22:19:39 GMT Daylight Time, psyd [at] cox.net writes: > I've never had anyone's lofe depend on the continuous output of one of my > power amps, although, some of the promoters and bands I;ve worked fro have > indicated as much... Of course not. The worst thing that a duff power amplifier can do is to make nasty noises. > I ran your quetions through the 'CSF' (Common Sense Filter) with the added > parameter of "Life and Limb Peril", and it produced the following results: > "When Life and Limb Peril exists, a ten to one ration insure that even when > the unexpected occurs, you have a ten to one chance of survivability." The general principle, though, is the same. > > Just a guess, Frank, but I'm guesing it falls into the same category as > turn signal use. It don't really do anything to make the ride better, but > occasionally, it saves a life. Now, you speak folly. Failure to use turn signals should be a criminal offence. The guy behind you would like to know what you plan to do. Frank Wood ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050617153435.01816268 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:34:35 From: CB Subject: Re: More rigging Questions >No, I don't It is not my speciality. I suspect that some practitioners are >equally deficient. But I do know that using a sledge hammer to crack a nut is >foolish. Say that the nut has to crack every single time, or you die. Still sound foolish? Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050617153923.01816268 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:39:23 From: CB Subject: Re: audio cables >I'm no psychologist, but I think this is a wrong technique. Humiliating >someone is never right. Frank, you've really got to get into the habit of reading all of my post before you respond to it... Ignoring the part about how I pull him aside, apologize, and make him a co-conspiritor usually pulls the sting from the initial humiliation. The humiliation is the attention getter, the apology is the salve. Here it is again, read the details: "Once jaws begin to close and the hushed whispering starts, I take the guy aside, apologize for humiliating him in public, and thank him for providing me a method of teaching to pull by the connector that'll last these folk the rest of their natural lives. Usually I buy him a beer to assuage the pain of the humiliation as well." Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ Message-Id: <3.0.6.32.20050617154641.01816268 [at] pop.west.cox.net> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 15:46:41 From: CB Subject: Re: Flashlight Replacement >Exactly! That's how I've been doing it for the past few years. You've been >using my system? Should I sue for copyright infringement? ;-) We could compare notes to see who sues who. What's the date on your copyright? Tell ya what, I'll RoShamBo ya 'South Park' style for the credit... Chris "Chris" Babbie Location Sound MON AZ Delete key training and post trimming done by appointment. Rates negotiable, will trade for typing lessons/ADD treatment... ------------------------------ From: "Sam Fisher" Subject: Welder in KS area Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 19:50:10 -0400 In-reply-to: Message-ID: A thank you to all those who responded about help picking up the welder. I was able to locate a shipping company that could economically pick up, crate, and ship the equipment. Sam Fisher VP - Fisher Theatrical, LLC. 410-455-9641 office 410-455-9643 fax 410-961-0921 cell All information contained in this email, including any attachments, is to be treated as Confidential. ------------------------------ Reply-To: From: "Scheu Consulting Services" Subject: RE: More rigging Questions Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 23:12:52 -0400 Organization: Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. Message-ID: <000601c573b3$9d79e9c0$c9fea8c0 [at] ROXY> In-Reply-To: Dr. Randall W.A. Davidson wrote: >Peter, a good friend and I trust a continued one: >I pray this clarifies the realities of involvement. Dr. Doom ...as I pray for absolution of the sin of using the word "never" ;-) In my almost 25 years of experience as a Production Manager, TD, Events Manger, LD, Rigging Systems Designer, Project Manager and Head Chef and Bottle Washer, I have yet to directly interface with someone from OSHA = until AFTER an incident occurred. And that was only after a steel fab shop "industrial" accident. While OSHA inspectors may appear when requested or notified of a = potential dangerous condition, they just don't show up in theatrical venues unannounced very often, if at all. And certainly not with an agenda to inspect particular pieces of gear, like a flying harness. The local OSHA = guy just isn't educated in the tools of our trade. That was my simple point, = and I apologize for overstating it. What's my penance, Brother Randy? Peter Scheu Scheu Consulting Services, Inc. www.scheuconsulting.com ------------------------------ End of Stagecraft Digest #431 *****************************